Zwift, my journey, my weight and my fitness.

Weeksy, you do care too much about Zwiftpower and CVR points.

I can say that because I have more points than you.

I can say that because I have more points than you

Most people have more than me 🙂

It was only a 15minute race so I assume as someone else above has said they make a calculation to come up with the 20min.
If I lose a kg I'll be a B. I might have to eat well over Xmas to maintain my C status :0)

Can you now win races with "ZP". I didn't think you could but I came second to a guy on ZwiftPower who had it next to his ride?

https://www.zwiftpower.com/events.php?zid=31772

finally got to do a hilly race which is where I do ok in real life. Loved it. Wish there were more but I guess for most it is nt so much fun and no weight checks would make cheating rife.

Not according to their FAQ! Haven't actually used raced or used ZP though since they changed so no idea what's going on these days!

Does it depend on the race promoters T&Cs?

Also don't say much as it was a Russian race "won" by a Russian ;0)

One of the reasons ZHQ have been slow to adopt racing was slipped out during a Zwiftcast once where Jon Mayfield basically said that it's so flakey that it's not worthy of being called a fair race. What's going on on your screen could be different than on the guy you are racing againsts screen even!

Similarly, when guys have run two Avatars/log ins on two separate machines from the same power source, the two racers ended up in completely different parts of the bunch! That shows the pack dynamics are highly randomised too.

Just the other week, Eric Minn said that despite the eCrit success, Zwift racing was so far away from being an Esport because 'there's no skill in it!'

So by all means race your hearts out. Enjoy those moments when you go Mano v Mano up a climb and get the same rush as in a real race and keep an amusing eye on your CVR/ZP/finishing screen results but with the new CVR algorithm coming soon and all the problems that have beset Zwift racing in reaching this point- I would keep a healthy dose of scepticism in hand for when you start to get sucked in!

The Zwift effect is real though- I would never have raced a real life Crit without it that's for certain.

Similarly, when guys have run two Avatars/log ins on two separate machines from the same power source, the two racers ended up in completely different parts of the bunch! That shows the pack dynamics are highly randomised too

I've had weirdness with dropouts once or twice but otherwise I'm certain that the biggest variable is riders' reported weights (or maybe other cleverer fiddles)

I started on a dumb Tacx Turbo that wasn't on Zwifts list so I picked the one that seemed to match by comparing online power curves.
Funniest day was when my son had been around during warmup and clicked the resistance setting up without me noticing. I got dropped in no time 😆
When I realised, I literally just clicked it back down to 1 on the lever and caught up at like 350w before clicking it back to setting 4 😆

Same with my first Kickr Snap. It was momentarily losing braking (as the fault developed it was obvious but initially it was very subtle) especially during sprints. This over-run would cause the acceleration effect part of the algorithm to think I was Cav and I remember Nathan Guerra going nuts over a 2000w sprint I 'did' 😆

Later, I smashed a mountain race, cruising past B riders as the tiny braking dropouts inflated my average power.

I guess what I'm saying is, don't read to much into any of it! Until the day you reach a live final or find yourself outdoors alongside them, it's fun but not an exact science yet 😉 🙂

I've got a mate who has a Tacx Booster trainer and a Kinetic Rock & Roller. Zwift recommends using the Tacx on resistance level 2 but he knows that it is way too easy on that setting compared to the fluid resistance Kinetic and he runs it on level 3.

Relatively easy I would say for people with a magnetic resistance trainer to either fiddle or just legitamately get it wrong.

I tried to up my cadence a bit today in a hilly 4 lapper. Got my average up to 69rpm and was pretty much bob on my FTP over the race (it hurt, real bad)

I really need to work on my 1min/5min power so i can stay with a break up a hill. Main problem with that is my BeerHawk advent calendar and commuting.

8th again though, still the fattest A by at least 7KG 😉

Woo just noticed my TT race I did the other week is showing on Zwiftpower now 🙂

https://zwiftpower.com/events.php?zid=27660

Not sure on that average power though 😆

I'd always assume that the reality of what you see on the screen could be wrong. But my evidence of finishing positions would appear to be right. Guy in front of me on the last race was there and just catching him up at the line and there were 2 behind catching me. Couldn't be 100% sure they are the exact same names behind but the results and times reflect this. As did my previous 2 other races. That's not to say it's always going to be right but so far my experience of it is accurate (enough).

Now do a Strava flyby and all three are ahead of me for the entire race and finish before me. But that's flakey in real life rides.

Yeah, I think they have improved it a lot. Previously, Zwift Power's 'watchers' were deemed more accurate than the Zwift results screen - hence why KISS races had them turned off. They basically got fed up of people asking why there was a discrepancy.

Then Zwift re-jigged things and I believe ZP use the same data now.

I just think investing too much emotional energy into the results/rankings as they stand isn't worth it.

There's a new Zwiftcast out and Frank Garcia was on there.
He sees a business in amongst his CVR plans somewhere. They've already set up paid training plans with Hunter Allen and Peaks Coaching group but I don't quite see where a racing revenue is coming from? Zwift would never allow an entry fee to be levied surely? And he seems not to have any sponsors on board?

There's also some controversy over whether him creating a business from Zwift based activity at all violates the end user agreement?

He said that he sees his race as more of a Road Racing series than Zwifts own ECrit series hence the route choices.

Interestingly too, Simon referred to the ECrit as the 'Zwift-Kiss' ECrit. I may be reading too much into it but it hinted at a more formal partnership between the two.

Im nursing both a bloody sore hand after the weekend along with a bit of a hangover too from last night, so i'm going to have a gentle one today... Cat D type social cruise at 10.40am.

So by all means race your hearts out. Enjoy those moments when you go Mano v Mano up a climb and get the same rush as in a real race and keep an amusing eye on your CVR/ZP/finishing screen results but with the new CVR algorithm coming soon and all the problems that have beset Zwift racing in reaching this point- I would keep a healthy dose of scepticism in hand for when you start to get sucked in!

Well said. It is easy to get sucked in though. I really pushed harder than I could do on a dumb trainer. Following moves, counter attacking and spinning like fury on the way down.

I'm waiting for the Grand tour series where you have individual race wins, leaders jerseys, sprinters jerseys, climbers jerseys, team leaders spceialists and the like over a series of races. It will happen one day...

I like to think that [i]most[/I] riders on Zwift aren't knowingly cheating (bar maybe a bit of mild weight-doping which I don't have a problem with!) You don't actually see too many people on non-smart trainers now either. Either way it doesn't bother me, as my opponents being faster merely pushes me to try harder!!

Obviously at the top level where money, etc is involved they're going to have to come up with ways of tightening things up (more from an accuracy of results POV, obviously there's ZADA to hopefully prevent people from outright cheating!)

I like to think that most riders on Zwift aren't knowingly cheating

You have to treat it as a bit of fun and not a sport with a level playing field as you have no idea about anyone else's setup.

I can be 10 watts quicker or slower depending on whether i take the measurement from the crank or from the hub. I can be a quicker for longer if I use two big fans instead of one. Power depends on position, do people ride in one that is turbo power making optimised, or one that is representative of a decent position for going fast on road. I can make more power if I turn off the FCE control and ride without the variability. And most probably have no idea of the accuracy of their power measurement unless they have many PM's that they can compare or have had it properly calibrated.

bar maybe a bit of mild weight-doping which I don't have a problem with

I doubt many hop on a set of scales before a race and enter that weight into Zwift, which would probably be the right thing to do to account for hydration. But then I wonder how much you lose over the course of a sweaty race. And how accurate are those bathroom scales? Probably not very accurate given some of the bike weights people quote having measured on their bathroom scales 😉

You have to treat it as a bit of fun and not a sport with a level playing field as you have no idea about anyone else's setup.

I have some of those Withings wifi scales, you can link it to Zwift so it automatically updates your rider weight whenever you step on it! (Not actually bothered to do that yet though!) But as you say, even that doesn't guarantee accuracy.

I just think investing too much emotional energy into the results/rankings as they stand isn't worth it.

You're not stopping me telling EVERYONE I know I WON a race ;0)

Ultimately it's a bit of fun and good training, as long as you put interval stuff in too ;0) but long term aim is to do some more closed circuit crit races next year to get up to CAT3 and a couple of target MTB events.

I use my months average weight for Zwift. Typically recording it 6-10 times a month. It can fluctuate daily so I don't see that being realistic. If I'm a kilo lighter one day than the next my performance will no doubt be worse due to dehydration anyway.

There’s a new CVR algarythm?!

Best get reading 😆

I don't think it's out yet Nath but is imminent apparently.

ZP points seem to be a thing now too but without a ranking number as such. I haven't seen word of the system behind them either?

Of course you get to tell them you won a race Tomlevell! You then get to quietly say 'Well, yeah that's true' as they pick holes in it 😆

I haven't found anyone who tried it that doesn't 'get' the buzz from a close Zwift race but for the many reasons mentioned, it's not worth sweating over results unless you're vying for a live final place in a series.
Its probably discussed up there somewhere ^^ but Quentin Lafaye was several KG heavier when he turned up to a live CVR race 😮 Still doesn't make him a deliberate cheat.....

chrisa87 - Member

Just joined the stw strava group after getting a good kick up the arse whilst having a mid interval dip. Cheers Keith Allen if you’re reading this!

Ha ha....bit late seeing this, but no problem!

Currently doing the FTP builder training which has loads of warm-up/rest bits in it (bit too much, perhaps) so I end up fiddling about with the mobile link app while resting & giving people ride ons etc....

Currently doing the FTP builder training which has loads of warm-up/rest bits in it (bit too much, perhaps) so I end up fiddling about with the mobile link app while resting & giving people ride ons etc....

Binned off the 4wk FTP builder yesterday (at start of week 3) - too many days off due to lurgi means I wouldn't get finished by Christmas, when I'll not be Zwifting (much!) for a couple of weeks probably. Plus I had got itchy legs & wanted to do a race yesterday 🙂

Still, I think it did me some good, so will possibly revisit in the new year (although not while/if I do the CVR league thing). Will certainly be adding a weekly interval workout sesh at the very least!

I just did the WBR 1-lapper of London. I kind of hope I am coming down with the lurgy, because that race was brutal.

scaredypants - Member

If that's the 4 week one, hold on tight for late wk 3 and wk 4

No, I'm doing the 10-12wk.
I skipped wk 1&2 as they suggested and am currently on wk 5. It's OK and will be interesting to see how much improvement there will be.
I might struggle to fit rides in over Christmas, but should be OK.

AWWWWW ^&^%%^%*%*%* $%&^*^**

1 lapper, finished raising a purchase order in work and got on with 1min 58 to race start, perfect for me.

Out with lead bunch in C as you'd now exepct. Up the hill first time and had to put in 5.+ which was OK so early on... Group of 15 went down to 8.... 7 fell off the back.

Over the line, onto full proper lap. Now a group of 8 including an old adversary ..GUTS, i know he's strong and i was giving him some banter on messages 🙂 HR was 155-160 which was fine..

About now, some geezer FLEW off the front with 6+... but he was on for a DQ so i told everyone to leave him anyway. But shouldn't have worried as by the time we hit Horseguards we'd picked him up again... Up the hill and i ended at the top in 4th of 8 i think.. On towards the line we'd strung out and took big efforts from me and 1 other to close on GUTS and someone else.... but around the roundabout we're in a bunch... I sat in 6th or so but the draft dragged me up with 350m to go, so i went for it.... I think the whole of the bunch did me before the line... I was about 650w... i think they were more than that but showing 8-9w/kg.... I was done...

Slightly disappointed, but i couldn't have done much more... Maybe next time i'll kick 1km out ! who know... we'll see.

stumpy01 - Member

scaredypants - Member

If that's the 4 week one, hold on tight for late wk 3 and wk 4

No, I'm doing the 10-12wk.
I skipped wk 1&2 as they suggested and am currently on wk 5. It's OK and will be interesting to see how much improvement there will be.
I might struggle to fit rides in over Christmas, but should be OK.

Are you using a smart trainer?
If so have you found the RPM gets ramped up towards the end of some of the sessions? Thought it was odd at first but is a recurring theme on some sessions in weeks 3-4.
More guidance from Zwift would be useful as your going in blind and not knowing what to expect and how much they want you to do around the 4 days a week. I'm doing the sessions when I can while doing other stuff on the other days of the week.

Well done hollow victory like mine as the winner in the power range failed to wear a HR monitor.
A wins a win ;0)

got on with 1min 58 to race start,

More guidance from Zwift would be useful as your going in blind and not knowing what to expect and how much they want you to do around the 4 days a week.

tomlevell - if you look on [url= https://whatsonzwift.com/workouts/ ]https://whatsonzwift.com/workouts/[/url] you can see any workout plan in its entirety, including the RPM required for each part. If you put in your FTP it'll show you the actual watts needed from you rather than the percentage

I'm as guilty of this as you most of the time, but have you ever tried racing with a proper warm up? Gave myself a good 20 mins before my last race (including a few sprints, etc) and felt a lot more comfortable during the subsequent effort, especially the early stages!

Many many times, sometimes 10 mins, sometimes 20 mins it doesn't seem to change much in honesty. It can take a few minutes where you HR and breathing are not quite in Sync, but after that i'm golden.

It was never going to be a killer race for me as with this sort of race, i'm generally cruising to keep inside the Cat limits as well as not kicking off the front in a futile attempt. So i was only sitting at 160bpm, where 180 is my top line HR.

Sadly, CVR has disappointed me again, if you recall, the race on Tues was split starts, 4 mins after the As, the Cs set off.... Well they ammended the result giving me +15 instead of -3 and showed me beating the Cs, the As were left out of the results.. But now the As are back in the results on CVR and i'm back to -3 points.
This is a massive flaw in the plan of course, you're never going to catch the group in front, they're not only 2 mins ahead of you, but they're also a cat above your limit. So what's the answer... I don't know. I'm happy joining an 'All In' type race, all Cats... I accept my position... But i do prefer battling with Cs.... but it's all pointless in CVR world if you're already starting in 40th place as they've left while you're still in the holding pen.

I don't know the answer.

I ended up in Zwiftpower today as the race winner, but as said above, a very hollow victory as they're only from DQs for exceeding cat limits. But i absolutely enjoyed the race and had fun... just got the tactics slightly wrong.

I've found that and it's handy but I'm being dim and haven't been able to see the RPM?
For example 5 x 8mins at that wattage is one thing but chuck in 120rpm at the end of the last 2 and it's hard.

But i absolutely enjoyed the race and had fun

First Zwift race in a while for me, been a lazy/injured summer. Did some Zwift workouts earlier in the week having ahem adjusted my weight up and knocked 50W off last springs FTP. Entered the WBR 1 lap at 6am. Due to weight/less power decided to demote myself to D. Only 4 of us, dropped 2 on the embankment then spent next 10 minutes playing cat and mouse with other chap. I went under the banner on Strand but was done with 200m to go. Winner got DQ so I got the win, wasn’t flat out but ended up bang on the D limit, Zwift also popped my FTP back up a chunk. So looks like I need to stick with C, this is fine for short races but no way can I currently hold that power for a hour race. Need to keep the momentum up now and get myself a bit fitter again. Might do the 3pm 1 lapper later.

I'm being dim and haven't been able to see the RPM?

Ah right.
Glad I wasn't being blind.

Some more guidance wouldn't go amiss from Zwift though. Or they may back away from it a bit now they're allowing trainerroad crossover.

mossimus - Member
First Zwift race in a while for me, been a lazy/injured summer. Did some Zwift workouts earlier in the week having ahem adjusted my weight up and knocked 50W off last springs FTP. Entered the WBR 1 lap at 6am. Due to weight/less power decided to demote myself to D. Only 4 of us, dropped 2 on the embankment then spent next 10 minutes playing cat and mouse with other chap. I went under the banner on Strand but was done with 200m to go. Winner got DQ so I got the win, wasn’t flat out but ended up bang on the D limit, Zwift also popped my FTP back up a chunk. So looks like I need to stick with C, this is fine for short races but no way can I currently hold that power for a hour race. Need to keep the momentum up now and get myself a bit fitter again. Might do the 3pm 1 lapper later.

Well done 🙂 keep it going !

I'm as guilty of this as you most of the time, but have you ever tried racing with a proper warm up? Gave myself a good 20 mins before my last race (including a few sprints, etc) and felt a lot more comfortable during the subsequent effort, especially the early stages!
Many many times, sometimes 10 mins, sometimes 20 mins it doesn't seem to change much in honesty. It can take a few minutes where you HR and breathing are not quite in Sync, but after that i'm golden.

It was never going to be a killer race for me as with this sort of race, i'm generally cruising to keep inside the Cat limits as well as not kicking off the front in a futile attempt. So i was only sitting at 160bpm, where 180 is my top line HR.

Sadly, CVR has disappointed me again, if you recall, the race on Tues was split starts, 4 mins after the As, the Cs set off.... Well they ammended the result giving me +15 instead of -3 and showed me beating the Cs, the As were left out of the results.. But now the As are back in the results on CVR and i'm back to -3 points.
This is a massive flaw in the plan of course, you're never going to catch the group in front, they're not only 2 mins ahead of you, but they're also a cat above your limit. So what's the answer... I don't know. I'm happy joining an 'All In' type race, all Cats... I accept my position... But i do prefer battling with Cs.... but it's all pointless in CVR world if you're already starting in 40th place as they've left while you're still in the holding pen.

I don't know the answer.

If you care about getting more points- beat better people. It's that simple.

So either do as Joe and I suggested and schedule in a higher profile C race or race B......

It's a ranking system. If you want a higher rank, you need to beat the folks above you. There's no prizes for just turning up and cruising a C win.

If you care about getting more points- beat better people. It's that simple.

So either do as Joe and I suggested and schedule in a high profile race or race B......

It's a ranking system. If you want a higher rank, you need to beat the folks above of you. There's no prizes for just turning up and cruising a C win.

You've totally missed my point. My point is, how can 'we' beat A riders if we're setting off 4 mins behind them ? That's the point. It's not about who i beat, or don't or how many point i do or do not get, it's about a level playing field. If i'm to be judged against A/B that's fine, but start the races at the same time.

But you can start in any pen you like above C!!! If you want the points, you need to follow the talent and beat the folks above you in the rankings.

CVR is aiming to create a racing based points system rather than an arbitrary one based on FTP. So by CVR standards, you are mis-categorising yourself.

Well yes, the alternative is i could just join A races.... However, that's never going to end well and never going to be a great deal of fun as i'm going to spend 50% or more of the race completely alone.

The fact that CVR point/rankings and ZP's systems are completely different, along with the ways points are given out after split races means that both systems are equally flawed, just in different ways.

Currently, the best place for me to enjoy racing is to ride in Cs. That way i get race-long battles and get to enjoy it, keeping the motivation high.