You don't really need to count calories though,a set of scales will let you know if you're burning more calories than you take in,so I don't understand why the "metastudy" ( or do you actually have a reference for the study?)makes a difference,there is no need to calorie count,the scales are your friend,not your enemy.
I tried to find it just now but couldn't - it was widely reported within the last year or two but I don't seem to be using the right search terms. I have to actually do some work now unfortunately. 🙁
Just to add that I pay for my own medication and will have to for the rest of my life. The cost to the NHS would be £600 per month hence they're not interested in helping me regain my health.
It is the cost - they are strapped for cash because they are having to buy extra large chairs and operating tables for fat people, extra large ambulances, etc.
Combine this with the cost of IVF, treating diseases caused from smoking, etc, then the important stuff gets overlooked.
At least with smoking they claw back some of the money from taxes. Perhaps they need the fat tax after all?
[img] http://i2.mirror.co.uk/incoming/article1480554.ece/ALTERNATES/s615/Weight%20Loss%20Ward%20patient%20Terry-1480554 [/img]
[img] http://i4.mirror.co.uk/incoming/article1480550.ece/ALTERNATES/s615/Weight%20Loss%20Ward%20Surgical%20Team-1480550 [/img]
Oh dear, go and join SD-53 in the offensive users group. 😐
I might as well join the offensive posters group then.cg when,i know that an underactive thyroid causes lethargy,and that controlling it can be difficult,and i sympathise with your view that the NHS is not providing adequate care,and that they should fund your treatment,but when it was not adequately controlled,and you started to gain weight,what did you do about it?Did you attempt to control your intake,in order to control your weight? or did you feel that the thyroid condition made this impossible?
thejesminddingo - I was repeatedly misdiagnosed although I knew fine well what was going on. When you're untreated/under-medicated there is nothing you can do about the weight gain. As I stated, I could hardly eat as I didn't have the energy to make food plus a typical symptom is loss of appetite.
I was the fittest I'd been for quite a few years when this happened and it didn't help that I tried to ignore it but continuing to ride when on my knees. Suspect that has probably contributed to why I've not got this sorted.
Just as a matter of interest, the UK thyroid forum I use has 14,000 members and in the main these are all people who've been failed by the NHS.
CG- your situation sucks big time and I offer only understanding..
But you are an exception; most of the folk within the obesity epidemic do not have a good reason for their own imbalance and quite simply, are greedy and lazy. I look around an office full of 60+ folk that I know well. Over half are significantly overweight or obese, some morbidly so. I know all of the (important) medical histories and none have reasons for their problem other than the obvious one. 95% of the whole group would benefit form a more balanced diet and significantly more exercise. You are a wonderful example of taking control of your own destiny and I salute you. I wish so many more people around me would follow such a strong example.
Oh dear, go and join SD-53 in the offensive users group
so what - should the NHS budget be limitless then ? And no-one need take any responsibility for their own health because the NHS has all the funds needed to fix them up after they have eaten as many pies. etc as they want ?
meanwhile people with cancer or other terminal conditions are refused treatment because there aren't the funds available....
But you are an exception; most of the folk within the obesity epidemic do not have a good reason for their own imbalance and quite simply, are greedy and lazy.
This is purely an opinion, one that reflects your own prejudice. What do you know of the statistics of the causes of obesity?
What do you know of the statistics of the causes of obesity?
enough to know that they don't tally with reality ?
TurnerGuy - MemberOh dear, go and join SD-53 in the offensive users group
so what - should the NHS budget be limitless then ? And no-one need take any responsibility for their own health because the NHS has all the funds needed to fix them up after they have eaten as many pies. etc as they want ?
I think if you read cinnamon_girl's posts properly you may (just maybe) come to the conclusion that actually, yes, you are being offensive in this case.
grum - Member
Maybe some of the other numerous reasons people have posted in this thread? You're straw manning again
No I'm not. There is a general increase in obesity levels. Are you telling me that is ALL due to medical conditions, genetics, etc. If so, why this rise in such conditions?
What do you know of the statistics of the causes of obesity?
In the US where obesity is rife, hypothyroidism affects just 0.3% of the population.
While metabolic and hormonal causes do exist they are few and far between, the majority of westerners are fairly healthy and disease free....obesity for the bulk of us is simply due to eating too much for whatever reason (lack of education, comfort eating, lack of exercise etc etc)...
Its a harsh truth that most people dont like to acknowledge as its puts the onus back on the individual to do something about it.
I think if you read cinnamon_girl's posts properly you may (just maybe) come to the conclusion that actually, yes, you are being offensive in this case.
I've read them - I am not being offensive to her - but I do object to the NHS resources being used up by so many fat people who are not suffering from a medical condition that they have brought on themselves...
toys19,do you have access to any statistics which refute the causes stated in this article
[url] http://www.nhs.uk/Conditions/Obesity/Pages/Causes.aspx [/url]
If so could you kindly provide references as I am interested in the arguments put forward in this thread.
Grum, from that article you linked to:
[i]Bottom Line: Saying that weight gain is caused by excess calories is true, but meaningless. It tells you nothing about the actual cause.[/i]
The article cant make up its mind, in the above snippet it says what several of us have already said: that an excess of calories causes weight gain....it then tries to tell you that this is the cause but actually isnt...or some other mealy mouthed nonsense?....it talks about certain foods filling you up more than others, some foods stopping the hunger signals sooner than others and how crash dieting can cause the body to hold onto fat, that 100gms of sugar will be used differently by the body than 100gms of protein etc etc....none of this is new information.
To exclude particular food groups entirely is wrong, the body uses fat, proteins and carbs for various essential functions....eat a balanced diet but dont eat too much, it really is that simple.
If you're eating healthily but still gaining weight have a blood test to see if you're one of the few with a disorder....but if it comes back all clear then you're simply eating too much and need to cut back on the amount you're consuming.
If you're taking in the bulk of your calories via sugar then obviously you'll be screwing with your insulin responses and playing havoc with your metabolism....this is not an illness or a problem with food or science...this is just somebody without a clue deciding to eat the majority of their calories in the form of carbohydrates....i wouldnt advocate anybody does this in the same way i wouldnt suggest somebody gets their total calorie intake from fat...or protein for that matter.
Every day try to eat some meat, fish, fruit, veg, pulses, rice, eggs, nuts, etc etc....if you actively look to include this variety of foodstuffs you'll be surprised how little you actually eat because its quite filling...whereas polishing off a packet of biscuits is easy for most people.
The older generation were onto something when they said: everything in moderation.
meanwhile people with cancer or other terminal conditions are refused treatment because there aren't the funds available....
A lot of cancers (as well as the obvious ones) are linked to multiple lifestyle factors. What are you suggesting we do about those?
do you have access to any statistics which refute the causes
No, but they do not have any statistics that prove it either.
The NHS website is often wrong, they still recommend eating low fat, and we all know thats bollocks.
Science works by testing a hypothesis, the statement made by the highlander was not tested by highlander, it merely appeals to his confirmation bias. He thinks fat people are lazy rather than being fat makes you tired.
I am against fattism, ie peopel who hate other people purely because they are fat -ie haggis1978 the hero of the scottish people.
I have a proposal, it will never get funded, but we should test what conditions fat people have, and what knowledge they have. Ie test for thyroid , insulin resitance etc. And see if they think pasta and low fat is good for you.
I'll bet 90% of them have an issue that prevents them from losing weight, and are happily eating "lowfat" foods that are actually high in carbs.
A lot of cancers (as well as the obvious ones) are linked to multiple lifestyle factors. What are you suggesting we do about those?
Not give them a window seat on Haggis's helicopter ?
I do object to the NHS resources being used up by so many fat people who are not suffering from a medical condition that they have brought on themselves...
Really? Ever broken a bone doing sport? You are spouting small minded self centred twaddle. This is 2014 not 1957.
butterscotch yum-yum above is 550 calories - about 40 mins of intense cycling according to myfitnesspal
there is a considerable amount of science behind the hormonal factors in obesity but still a lot more to understand
personally I believe the government needs to legislate further, sadly ours has been bought easily by the food lobby, failing to legislate on traffic light labelling, alcohol pricing etc ultimately costing taxpayers through the NHS
and their failings for children are criminal, see Goves attempt to cut back on sport, one of his first moves as Ed Sec, Accademies being able to ignore restrictions on junk food vending machines and axing Sure Start programmes
you can be as fatist or PC as you like but the (in)actions of this condem government will end up costing everyone more
you can be as fatist or PC as you like but the (in)actions of this condem government will end up costing everyone more
I don't think either attitude will solve the obesity problem, but eradicating fattism will make the world a nicer place.
I think we need to understand diet and exercise more and spread the message. People have been given the wrong message.
EG low fat high carbs, and typical exercise plans to lose weight involving "fat burning", guess what, that does not work very well for losing weight. But low carbs and HIT appear to be very effective..
Making people feel shit because of someone elses shoddy perception of how they came to be fat certainly does not help. They must have some of their own pain in their lives to feel the need to dish it out on others.
They must have some of their own pain in their lives to feel the need to dish it out on others.
I thought it was an accepted fact that those who constantly criticise others do so because they have a very low opinion of themselves ?
toys19,do you have access to any statistics which refute the causes stated in this article
[url] http://www.nhs.uk/Conditions/Obesity/Pages/Causes.aspx [/url]
If so could you kindly provide references as I am interested in the arguments put forward in this thread.
thejsmonddingo, I gave you my answer above in http://singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/youre-fatist/page/7#post-5898269
Really? Ever broken a bone doing sport?
however, the fact that a sport was being partaken in implies an effort to lead a healthy lifestyle - unlike eating excessively...
I don't think either attitude will solve the obesity problem, but eradicating fattism will make the world a nicer place.
not sure this is productive though - without fattism everyone will feel no issue with eating McDonalds everyday, etc and so we will end up like the picture of the future shown in Wall-E, etc.
In certain social groups it is not the 'done thing' to be fat, and so how many people in Royal Families, etc, do you see that are obese?
And why do you not see any obese 'royals' - do they have better genes without this flaw that causes fatness, or do they eat better foods that we can't afford, or do they just eat in moderation?
I vote for moderation.
Sorry came back to the thread and accidentally posted twice.I read your reply,it only reinforces my opinion of your ignorance.
however, the fact that a sport was being partaken in implies an effort to lead a healthy lifestyle - unlike eating excessively...
😆
Some comedy gold in your posts but this is fantastic.
Read almost the whole thread. This from SD253 pretty much sums it up for me
Obesity is a symptom of bone idleness.
With a few obvious exceptions this is just blindingly obvious. Yes, we all knew a kid at school on medication which made them big, yes there are obviously people with limited mobility who become large.
But if I drink lots of beer and eat loads of junk food, I can easily observe myself getting larger. If I stop all that and go for a cycle every other day, I get smaller. FFS.
Ignorance? What exactly in the context of this discussion am I ignorant of? Do you you know what ingnorance means?
not sure this is productive though - without fattism everyone will feel no issue with eating McDonalds everyday, etc and so we will end up like the picture of the future shown in Wall-E, etc.
This has proven to be utterly wrong.
And why do you not see any obese 'royals' - do they have better genes without this flaw that causes fatness, or do they eat better foods that we can't afford, or do they just eat in moderation?
Firstly, this is bollocks, my neighbours whole family are thin, is it genetic/ Do they live a better lifestyle? I dunno? The observed health of one family is not science, it is anecdote.
Secondly Fergie? Prince Andrew is starting to get a double chin
[img] 
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But if I drink lots of beer and eat loads of junk food, I can easily observe myself getting larger. If I stop all that and go for a cycle every other day, I get smaller. FFS.
Steady now, this implies personal responsibility.....and modern society doesnt like that, we want to play the blame game....it must be illness, it must be a lack of information, it must be the food industry etc etc....heaven forbid people should take come kind of interest in what they put into their bodies.
heaven forbid people should take come kind of interest in what they put into their bodies.
This is just rubbish, nobody here has said that.
You need to be aware how your own prejudice influences how you interpret what other people say.
It is short people I can't stand, too lazy to just grow to a proper height.
Oh god, I am short and fat..
Some comedy gold in your posts but this is fantastic.
FFS why ? Is eating excessively a sport I am unaware of ? When will it be in the olympics ?
This has proven to be utterly wrong.
show me that proof... there isn't any.
Secondly Fergie?
She got large - she put the effort in and lost it and kept it off - simple link there -> effort - stays slim.
And I don't think she became obese.
MSP - Member
It is short people I can't stand, too lazy to just grow to a proper height.
Nice try but there is very little an individual can do about their height....eating and obesity however....
Nice try but there is very little an individual can do about their height....eating and obesity however....
I disagree, average heights are increasing. I wonder why?
What about intelligence? Can a person do anything about that?
show me that proof... there isn't any.
So you are saying that it is correct and productive to abuse people for their life choices? Do you hang around outside lung cancer clinics saying I told you so? In terms of proof I CBA to link to the wealth of psychologiacl studies that show that shoving humilation down peoples throats does not contribute to self esteem, and ultimalty leads to poor health. Can you show me any evidence that it does work?
No everyone on earth is identical and the only thing that differentiates them is choice, you have now convinced me of that.
It's a hard one, especially when I look at BBW.
user-removed - MemberRead almost the whole thread. This from SD253 pretty much sums it up for me
Obesity is a symptom of bone idleness.
Yes it's really that simple isn't it, why do some people have make things so complicated, I mean look at this from a government report ffs.
[b][i]However there are many complex behavioural and societal factors that combine to contribute to the causes of obesity. The Foresight report (2007) referred to a “complex web of societal and biological factors that have, in recent decades, exposed our inherent human vulnerability to weight gain”. The report presented an obesity system map with energy balance at its centre. Around this, over 100 variables directly or indirectly influence energy balance (Figure 1).
The Foresight map has been divided into 7 cross-cutting predominant themes (Figure 2):
Biology: an individuals starting point - the influence of genetics and ill health;
Activity environment: the influence of the environment on an individual’s activity behaviour, for example a decision to cycle to work may be influenced by road safety, air pollution or provision of a cycle shelter and showers;
Physical Activity: the type, frequency and intensity of activities an individual carries out, such as cycling vigorously to work every day;
Societal influences: the impact of society, for example the influence of the media, education, peer pressure or culture;
Individual psychology: for example a person’s individual psychological drive for particular foods and consumption patterns, or physical activity patterns or preferences;
Food environment: the influence of the food environment on an individual’s food choices, for example a decision to eat more fruit and vegetables may be influenced by the availability and quality of fruit and vegetables near home;
Food consumption: the quality, quantity (portion sizes) and frequency (snacking patterns) of an individual’s diet.
[/i][/b]
And these diagrams
[img] 
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[img] 
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And fill yer boots here :
Someone ought to tell the Department for Business, Innovation & Skills, to have a look at this thread to find out the causes of obesity, ie, bone idleness.
deviant - Member
Steady now, this implies personal responsibility.....and modern society doesnt like that, we want to play the blame game....it must be illness, it must be a lack of information, it must be the food industry etc etc....heaven forbid people should take come kind of interest in what they put into their bodies
so deviant you disagree with heavy taxation, age restrictions, bans etc on smoking ?
I disagree, average heights are increasing. I wonder why?
What about intelligence?
well in your case it is clear you could do with some more intelligence...
ha ha turner guy try not to be an arsehole. Do you think being thickist is a bit of a bigoted trait also?
Ernie, your post highlights all the contributing factors but what should an individual do about their weight gain?....(presuming they arent one of the small percentage with an illness)....
I'm guessing eating less in the form of a balanced diet and taking regular exercise will counter the weight gain....or are people seriously trying to claim this is poor advice, doesnt work etc etc...
There are a multitude of [i]reasons[/i] why somebody might gain weight but the end action is that they are consuming more than they expend.
People are getting causes and reasons mixed up....the cause of weight gain is consuming excess calories....the reasons may be many (emotional crutch, lack of education etc etc)....to use comfort eating as an example, the problem here is psychological....this in itself wont [i]cause[/i] weight gain, it is simply a reason for somebody to eat, the cause of the weight gain will be too much food going in.
There are very few actual causes of weight gain other than eating too much but there are many many reasons why people eat too much, its important to differentiate otherwise people fall back to the 'its not my fault' position.
ha ha turner guy try not to be an arsehole. I mean you seem to have an excelelnt grasp of the scientific method and logical fallacies.
at least as clear as your...