When you think you're born to rule, you don't consider any other viewpoint.

I'd like to see a bit of ageism in politics and a rule that said no politicians under the age of, say, 50. I.E. you will probably have had a first career and know a little of the world.

I listened to an interview with Neil Kinnock, Michael Heseltine and Shirley Williams the other week and in their dotage all 3 came across as reasoned with santient points to make. I did not agree with everything they had to say but they were all capable of hearing each others opinion and rational discussion. That's what I want in my politicians.

Sounds like the standard typical professional MP that sems to be cropping up everywhere these days.

Never spent any time worknig in the real world so spend their whole time developing OTT ideologies that they can't see as being inappropriate because they've spent their whole employed time in a politically sheltered environment.

Utter, utter scum:

[url= http://www.telegraph.co.uk/education/universityeducation/8870909/Oxford-Tories-nights-of-port-and-Nazi-songs.html ]Oxford Tories at play.[/url]

[img] [/img]

[img] [/img]

Its career Mps innit? The route to an MP is as follows

1. Private school
2. Oxbridge
3. Tory/Labour Press Office, or some lunatic Thinktank
4. Parliamentary secretary or spin doctor
5. Parachuted into safe seat
6. Parliament, doing EXACTLY WHAT YOU'RE BLOODY WELL TOLD BY THE WHIPS

Exposure to real life/real job = zero
Exposure to foaming nutters/blue sky thinking Steve Hilton style idiots = lots

So now we have an entire generation of politicians who's only goal is there own advancement within the party. Achieved though saying yes to your boss and not rocking the boat. You're idea of 'ideology' is whatever some barking mad, flavour of the month thinktank has just presented you with . Abolishing maternity rights? Legalising injecting crack into your eyeballs? Whatever....

Its tragic. Look at Ed Milliband. He's farmed out the policy-making to focus groups, to tell him what to think, as he doesn't have a single original thought in his empty head

With the Tory's its just default Thatcherism. only more so.

I despair

What makes them..... well, just that - what makes them?

[i]So God was creating man. And his little assistant came up to him and he said: "Hey, we've got all these bodies left, but we're right out of brains, we're right out of hearts and we're right out of vocal chords." And God said: "**** it! Sew 'em up anyway. Smack smiles on the faces and make them talk out of their arses." And lo, God created the Tory Party.[/i] --- Mr Chuckles

Regardless of party they're all a useless waste of space and money, completely out of touch with the world we actually live in who abuse their own system, then look to write a book and say how everyone else ****ed it up and it was nothing to do with them ...

I despair too.

All things considered I prefer the Tories but for one reason only:

At least they know they are a nasty party. They are clearly the party of the rich which means you know where they are coming from. Labour however are also the party of the rich but they operate under the guise of representing the working man and that makes them just one slight shade more sinister and deceitful than the Tories.

Not much to choose between any of them. (Parties that is, not individual politicians)

convert - Member
I'd like to see a bit of ageism in politics and a rule that said no politicians under the age of, say, 50. I.E. you will probably have had a first career and know a little of the world.

Oh - and it's not just a Tory thing either - Douglas Alexander anyone???

Spin Doctors??

"Whim Doctors" more like.

druidh - is it a profession or should it be a "calling"? The other difference between the politician and the surgeon is the qualification to be a good politician is a bit more varied than the surgeon. A surgeon can be trained and then be supervised whilst they gain experience - imo the politician needs to gain life experience to be good at the job and that requires having a life first! It also gives you an opportunity to live through different styles of governance and learn from past mistakes first hand before making your own!

The concept of elders in the original sense of the word running a community has a lot merit.

I must be getting old - can't imagine I would have thought this in my 20's!

convert - in general, I tend to agree with you. I also think it would be useful if ministers had at least some background in their portfolio, whereas it seems they are shuffled around willy-nilly.

Binners makes some good points - its about career politicians whose gola is to climb the political ladder of power.
I went to college with a current Liberal MP and politics was all he wanted to do.
The other issue here is that they have also become embroiled in the media way of presenting things. Most politicians [all parties] are not actually saying what they really think on an issue they are trying to work out how to spin it rather than saying it honestly..its like newspeak light.
Sadly the characters and the committed individuals who believed in higher goal than their own career is a thing of the past. - Hell I would even go as far as say they had made moral and principled stances [ on all sides]-
Hence we get Cameron pretending to be less right wing than he is and more euro sceptic than he his
Clegg - well I have not got enough time or swear words to describe his rebooting of his moral compass
Miilliband - he believes in whatever will be popular to believe in - WTF happened to leading?
It is poor across all the parties. I dont know if they are getting worse or we are getting older
Where are the skinners of yester year or even Heseltine? FFS I even miss Douglas Hurd and Patton You may not have liked their view but you at least respected them..these days I may like their views whilst still not liking them as human beings.
Poor

Can I just take the opportunity to say two words

[b]Louise Mensch[/b]

😀

😯

😈

'Scuse me, back in a few minutes...

What, the snobbish sloane who proved her ignorance beyond doubt on HIGNFY?

Bloody hell, you're easily pleased. 😉

With a face like mine, you can't be fussy 😀

And anyway, proven scientific fact innit, posh birds are all filthy 8)

Indeed junkyard the quality of our MPs seems to be far lower than it used to be - less people with convictions and capable of actually thinking. Right across the political spectrum

She's breathing, that must be enough.

I've said it before and I'll say it again, Caroline Lucas is awesome and we could do with more MPs like her.

"The best lack all conviction, while the worst
Are full of passionate intensity."

My God, they just can't help themselves:

[url= http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-edinburgh-east-fife-15847986 ]Obama effigy burnt by St Andrews Conservative students[/url].

Nice.

the quality of our MPs seems to be far lower than it used to be

Aye - but where are the people of the stature of Mo Mowlem? Tony Benn? Heseltine? people with principles and intellect?

TJ, I'll give you Mo Mowlem.

Benn was a fantasist and almost solely responsible for Labours' wilderness years.
How he's managed to reinvent himself as everyone's favourite funny uncle is beyond me.

Heseltine is a Thatcherite ideologue who sold the remnants of his soul to big business and corporate greed years ago.
Principles?
The only principles he ever had were to remove power from the working class and to feather his own nest.

Agree with them or not -at least something was happening in between their ears and they made life interesting

Where are the equivalents now?

Two out of three aint bad, TJ. Never bought into the St. Mo myth, and that's from following Teeside politics as a local and NI politics as an exile. Bliar ran the process very tightly, MM was peripheral and not always helpful. Oh and the result of the whole process is a travesty of democracy and has fixed few of the underlying problems.

Meanwhile, here's a pic of a young Ed Balls
[img] [/img]

🙄

Agree with them or not -at least something was happening in between their ears and they made life interesting

you are being unduly harsh doe sanyone value many above mowlam in a content of their character/principles contest?
Mandy summarises much of what is bad in politics - spin BS and some a large dollop of self serving smugness

From Gary Younge in the Guardian a while back:

I don't have a phobia about Tories. That would suggest an irrational response. I hate them for a reason. For lots of reasons, actually. For the miners, apartheid, Bobby Sands, Greenham Common, selling council houses, Section 28, lining the pockets of the rich and hammering the poor – to name but a few. I hate them because they hate people I care about. As a young man Cameron looked out on the social carnage of pit closures and mass unemployment, looked at Margaret Thatcher's government and thought, these are my people. When all the debating is done, that is really all I need to know.

Heseltine didn't make life 'interesting' TJ, unless you were of his class.
He helped to make it pretty intolerable for a lot of other people though.

Bloody historical revisionists, shoot the lot of 'em. 😀

Same with people who say 'Ken Clarke, he's OK'.
No he isn't.
If he had the slightest remnant of common decency he's have resigned from the Tories and joined another party.
He didn't.
He sold his soul, took his orders and trousered the cash.
Complete hypocrite.

Anyway, I'm off before this all gets a bit:
[img] [/img]

I too was shouting at the telly last night that woman was an idiot
i just wanted to grab her by the lapels and ask her to explain the mechanism by which 'more competition' would reduce exec level pay

i know she would just hold me with her cyborg stare and repeat

- Labour are to blame for excessive remuneration
- we need more competition to fix things
- we need less regulation to fix things
- the market will sort it out, we need a freer market

Rusty - the point simply was that we used to have politicians with intellect and principles even if from one point of view they were odious .

Now we have politicians without principles and an intellect free zone.

Heseltine for example resigned from government over a point of principle./ Can't see any of Camerons lot doing that

TJ, intellect and principles are over rated in politics.
It's what you actually do that counts.

Does it matter if the person who puts you out of work is intelligent or not?
Of course it doesn't!

Does it matter that they've ruined your community because of some deep seated conviction or because they want a nice directorship when they retire?

Judge them on their actions, not their intelligence or ideological prejudices.

Anyway, let's just agree to differ and call it a day - best for all concerned I reckon. 🙂

Ok

everyone i've known who at some point wanted to become a politician has been the kinda person who was bullied as a kid for whatever reason and now they've developed the kinda personality where they dont even realise they're often referring to anyone with a differing opinion or goal as 'stupid'.

shame really.

Heseltine for example resigned from government over a point of principle./ Can't see any of Camerons lot doing that

You're wrong TJ! Nowadays you can [s]jump before you're pushed[/s] resign on a matter of principle, and it won't make the slightest bit of difference to your career trajectory.

You simply wait for the headlines to blow over, and bingo! You're back in the cabinet. This works 2 or 3 times before the [s]idiots[/s] voters get wise to it. But then.... and this is the good bit... you get yourself appointed on the Brussels gravy train and start filing those enormous corrupt expenses claims again. Happy ****ing days!!! First Class Eurostar ticket and a bottle of 68 chateauneuf du pape for the journey please?

Politics is about power, without power you can't change anything and if you can't change anything what is the point? The old codgers sound reasonable because they are no longer pursuing power, their careers at the sharp end are over and hence they have nothing to lose. When they were at the sharp end, they were as ruthless and calculating as the next one, if they had to compromise a principle to gain advancement they would, because that is what you need to do.

Heseltine was one of the most ambitious of the lot, his resignation was as much about positioning himself for an eventual tilt at the leadership as principle.

Principles are the luxury of the unelectable, that is the reality of the dirty game.

We need Martin Sheen.

It's really just our version of democracy that is s**t, it allows this type of career politician. A rethink on the whole system is required. We can moan about individuals, but the parties are set up so that the membership follows exactly what the leadership says, who are in turn set up to do as the corporate world requires..

Elizabeth Mary Truss (born 26 July 1975), also known as Liz Truss, is a [u]British Conservative Party politician[/u] who has been the Member of Parliament (MP) for South West Norfolk since the 2010 general election.

She is the daughter of a professor with an interest in mathematical logic, being raised in a left-wing household, "My mum was in the CND",[4]

She attended Roundhay School in north-east Leeds, a comprehensive school. She read Philosophy, [u]Politics and Economics at Merton College[/u], Oxford. Truss was [u]President of Oxford University Liberal Democrats[/u] and expressed anti-monarchist sentiments at the 1994 Liberal Democrats conference.[4][5] After [u]working for Shell and Cable & Wireless[/u], she became the deputy director of [u]Reform[/u] in January 2008,[6] where she co-authored "The value of mathematics",[7] and "A new level"[8] amongst other reports.

She was elected as a councillor in the London Borough of Greenwich in 2006, standing down in 2010, shortly before the end of her term of office.

shes more or less the definition of a career politician

From what I've gleaned from the net and other conspiracy sites -there's kind of a world movement of neo-con types out there that get to put their 'key people' in positions of power across the globe.

David Shaylor was an MI5 whistleblower and apparently stood against Tony Blair in a recent election in his Sedgefiled constituency. Did you also know that Tony Blair was once an MI5 agent? As were many in the Labour party apparently. My theory is that Bilderbergers and other Friedmanite types work together to get their shills and lackies in important positions of power, and low and behold, once they're firmly ensconced down rain the neo-con style policies. Recent history would bear all this out. I would say Clegg was/is a Tory plant in the Lib Dibs and he's helped to get a Tory government elected. They probably knew they couldn't get in alone. The list goes on. Labour is so far to the right, it may aswell change its name. There's no-one to trust in or vote for. Where are Britain's Indignados?

mtb2020 - Member
From what I've gleaned from the net and other conspiracy sites -

* *

Blair an MI5 agent? Interesting - where did yo get that one from?

Blair an MI5 agent? Interesting - where did yo get that one from?

Eating blue cheese and drinking too much red wine before bedtime.

Here's a couple of links -

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/216877.stm

http://www.bilderberg.org/sis.htm#agent

http://www.bilderberg.org/sis.htm

I like to think there's quite a lot to the allegations made within the pieces.

Apparently Shaylor has supposedly been discredited and goes by the name of Dolores Kane and believes he's the reincarnation of Jesus Christ?! Still I think B-liar would sell anyone down the river for a few pieces of silver. All of them are effing scum. Their actions speak louder than mere words.

Blair is more TIT than MI5 as far as I'm concerned.

Fruit loop.

My rant maybe goes a bit too far. But this documentary made over 10 years ago, shines a spotlight into the murky underworld of global politics.

It's called Secret Rulers of the World and was made by Jon Ronson. It was shown on Channel 4 in early 2001. You can catch on google here. It's not a great copy, but interesting all the same.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-287163572862203022