I've got one, a Nautulis it's a very nice watch, bought it the same time as a bought a Cove G shock the watch is worth 3 times what I paid for it, the bike is worth about a tenth.
So it's purely an investment, nothing else?
No it also tells the time! 😉
How do these things perform compared to say the stock market or gold?
Well. Over past decade average prices have risen 5% per annum. Compound that and it's a good return in absolute and relative terms. Some brands have risen much more in value.
I've got one, a Nautulis it's a very nice watch
Genta's best design IMHO would have one over an AP Royal Oak any day.
Even after working in financial services marketing for 20 years I've always thought that Patek Philippe positioning was pretentious and smug... and really not a brand I'd want to work on...
But marketers know what people don't know or aren't prepared to admit about themselves and that's that status matters, and the brands and products we choose for ourselves are as much about status display as the essential functionality they deliver. On that note, Patek Philippe know exactly what they're doing. As do Porsche, Range Rover, Gillette, Waitrose, Apple, Rapha, Estate Agents, Armani etc etc etc.
There is absolutely no rational need for a Patek Phillipe - you can get perfectly accurate timepieces for under £10. But people still buy them - so clearly there is a need amongst some people to spank several grand on one...
It's often quite interesting to get people to rationalise why they've spent a huge amount of cash on something they could've bought for a fraction of the price which would deliver the same functional benefit... they're quite complicit in the game but generally refuse to accept that...
Look at all the slow MTBers and roadies with expensive bikes which they're not skilled or fit enough to ride to the bike's real capability and tell me there's not something else going on in the decision-making process...
amazing that we haven’t had any mention of 'veblen goods’. the Godwins law for luxury non-essentials threads.
roadies with expensive bikes which they're not skilled or fit enough to ride to the bike's real capability and tell me there's not something else going on in the decision-making process.
Not quite the same comparison.
A lighter, £2000 road bike, will make someone go a bit faster and it will also be more pleasant to ride, compared to a £150 BSO.
MrSmith - MemberGenta's best design IMHO would have one over an AP Royal Oak any day.
I've got a soft spot for the Oyster Quartz he did.
There really is some haters of nice watches on here. The fact is its whoevers money and they can spend it however. The comment regarding people on flash bikes stands very true. At ardrock this year there were people coming over the line very late on very expensive bikes, were they still smiling, of course they were, happy just to have made it round as much as the bloke on that old fashioned 26"er. I'm happy to admit I'm jealous of other people's bikes sometimes, however I've never looked at someones casio and thought what a peasant.
So for the haters, if I decided to buy a man bauble that was just a beautifully designed and finished piece of engineering, which had a lovely mechanism that moved a couple of dials with no other purpose than being decorative, is that better or worse than if the same thing tries to indicate the time of day? Trying to understand whether it's the timekeeping that's behind all the frothing or if it's something more. Oh, then what if the same thing doesn't have a mechanism at all but is just a nicely made bauble for a lady? Did you all buy the cheapest engagement ring in the shop because a more expensive one doesn't make you any more engaged.
Haters +1
Did we not have a similar thread some time ago when someone said there was a documentary on about rolls Royce.
The scorn poured on anyone who owns the trappings of the well off is beyond me.
Some people are well off and spend there money on expensive things. Does not make them a bell end just fortunate.
Every now and again you read of some poor old codger who's popped their clogs after living the life of a pauper only to find out they were worth a small fortune. Now that's weird, if you have earned it you may aswell enjoy it.
I’d never heard of Genta. For those of you that like his designs, I found This interesting. (8 page pdf file)
It was linked at the foot of this page Gérald Genta, a historical interview
BBC2 7:00pm Sun 3 Jan
The Millionaire's Gift Guide – part of which is: “A vintage watch dealer attends the world's most exclusive timepiece auction in Geneva.”
Lastly, if you don’t already know, there are VERY convincing ?f?a?k?e?s? reproductions of most high-end watches available nowadays, some with ETA movements.
Trying to understand whether it's the timekeeping that's behind all the frothing or if it's something more.
Of course it isn't. Why would timekeeping be a problem? Given that you can buy a great timekeeper for £20, that makes expensive watches a pretence.
Re engineering - I consider them terrible engineering. A key requirement for a good engineering solution is efficiency, and given they cost thousands that's not efficient.
Re the bauble - if it's art, then go ahead. But I maintain these things are not art. They don't say anything beautiful. I believe that people only love these things because we (as a society, over decades or more) have been conditioned to do so by the people that make them. And nothing on this thread has made me think otherwise.
The scorn poured on anyone who owns the trappings of the well off is beyond me.
Nooo, its not the trappings I am scorning, it's specifically watches. And a few other things.
That's all fine. What expensive treats do you enjoy or buy for yourself on a landmark occasion?
Just curious ?
last December i oversaw a job/exhibition at some s****y Munich Hotel (Charles) for Jaeger LeCoultre.
the cheapest watch on display was 240,000€. the most expensive was over 1.4m€...!
by the end there were more security standing around than chippies, sparks and technicians setting the exhibition up.
needless to say, the guests were of a certain ilk. lots of pink trousers, neckerchiefs, ****y glasses, fur coats, air kissing/pouting, and gawdiness going on....
was fun telling them to leave at the end of the evening and ripping up the carpet whilst one woman was half-asleep/drunk on the stage.
nice watches? not really.
money can buy you anything, but not necessarily good taste.
What about [url= http://www.poshpuppyboutique.com/La_Jeune_Tulipe_Diamond_Dog_Pet_Collar_p/ildd-150.htm ]dog baubles[/url] ?
If you can afford it, why not.
Sorry I'm just not getting it.
Why buy an 8 bed house, you can live fine in a 2 bed terrace
Why buy a Bentley, a skoda bra will do everything it can
Why buy a £5k Armani suit, one from M&S will do just fine
Agree with the engagement ring thing above, perfect example.
The answer is because you can, and it gives pleasure to own it. So if you can, why the hell not.
None, I just buy things as and when. Why wait for a landmark occasion? If a bike/car/guitar or whatever appeals I'll buy and if it doesn't I won't. I can't remember buying anything at all for my 40th, had one Christmas present (a head torch from Madame), but don't worry about the cost of toys when I buy them.
A Celestion alnico guitar speaker sounds differnt ot a cheap one; a Look bike goes uphill easier than a cheap one; a full bounce Lapierre is easier to handle than something from halfords. But a watch?
Some French politician claimed you'd failed in life if you didn't have a Rolex by a certain age. I reckon a sign of success is not needing a watch at all at the youngest possible age. Not carrying a phone or a watch means you've really made it good.
My problem with most of this stuff is on aesthetic grounds.
It's all just such gaudy tat!
Take the daft price tag and the 'prestige' name off it and most of this stuff would look perfectly at home in the jewellery section of an Argos catalogue, in with the sovereign rings and charm bracelets
Re engineering - I consider them terrible engineering. A key requirement for a good engineering solution is efficiency, and given they cost thousands that's not efficient.
Not true. Any design will have requirements. 'Efficiency' isn't defined enough to be a requirement. Efficiency in what? Cost? Production time?
The marketing department will write the spec, and I'm sure the designers meet the spec.
But I maintain these things are not art.
In your view. That doesn't mean they're not art, or that some people think they are, and get pleasure from looking at them.
You can park a Skoda (not that I'd buy one) anywhere and people will ignore it, drive a Skoda and other road users won't discriminate against you, it probably won't go wrong (perhaps because there's less to go wrong) but if it does you will have no trouble getting it fixed. The Skoda is simply a better car for almost anything you use a car for than a Bentley, the only advantage of the Bentley I can see being it tells people you're a ****.
Love my breitling and I work in investment banking
Good for you.
Thanks for sharing
Binners +1
It really is not about hating or envy.
Anyone can buy what the hell they want. They can think it is worth whatever they want. But they can't expect the rest of us to believe it is about taste, or engineering, or an investment strategy.
It's a symbol which purchasers think is of class and style. But you don't just buy those.
Love my breitling
Even after watching what has to be one of the dumbest adverts on television with some bimbo hanging around on the ground while some smug, macho prick flys a plane around trying to impress.
My sister had four children young, was a single mum living in a two bedroom council flat while working in McDonald's to make ends meet.
She worked hard and ended up owning her own successfull business. Now she has a nice house , drives a nice new Mercedes as does her postman husband and would think nothing about spending £25,000 on a two week holiday.
She had it hard for along time. But now can afford the finer things in life and why not,
Good luck to her. Spanking your money on expensive holidays is totally understandable. Who wouldn't?
My point is that the supposed 'finer things in life' we're talking about here all look... you know.... a bit shit.
I like Mercedes cars, I like fancy holidays and I like big houses. Because they all achieve something or are beter than the cheaper alterbative in some real way. All these watches do is cost money, they are a vehicle for marketing.
If you bought them because they looked nice, then you'd be just as happy with the indistinguishable cheap copy, no?
Anyone can buy what the hell they want. They can think it is worth whatever they want. But they can't expect the rest of us to believe it is about taste, or engineering, or an investment strategy.It's a symbol which purchasers think is of class and style. But you don't just buy those.
So your view is a bit inconsistent.
You object to being told it's about taste, engineering or an investment, but happy to tell the fans what it isn't.
Nice watches are classy and subtle things; the very best are often expensive.
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The world is increasingly less classy and definitely not very subtle, so the same watchmakers cater for this audience accordingly, often with products that are actually lower down the range! Says it all really. You can't buy class, but some try to.
That's all there is to it, it's not a watch thing! It's a THINGS thing.
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Carry on 🙂
A university mate of Madame sounds like your sister, Chip. Trouble was the house with a guest house in the grounds, the new Ferrari (his) AMG Merc (hers), jetskis, holidays in one of the most expensive hotels in Hollywood, spectacular wedding and... I'm sure you've go the idea now, was all done with mirrors. It took a fairly minor drop in the company turnover to bring the whole credit-based mirage to an end. Everything saleable was sold, she got 40k as her share of the divorce (and the kids) and then he went bankrupt as she was the brains behind the business.
Things are not always what they appear. I hope your sister is being extravagant with money that's really hers.
I think describing expensive watches/cars/toys/whatever as art is incorrect. I think the best way to think of art as 'having no purpose, other than itself' and because of that, watches, while may be very aesthetically pleasing/wonderful bits of engineering/sound investments, are not 'Art', because they tell the time/are cars etc.
Its their money, if they choose to put it on their wrist/in their garage/on their wall instead of in an institution, fine. If I had the choice, given the same return I know which is more fun, and what I'd do.
I also wonder if the haters would be quite so passionate in their hatred of these things if a big lottery win came their way. Like all the winners that suddenly and inexplicably start voting for the blue team, post win. Odd, that.
How many haters have iphones?
Or Miele, Bosch, Gaggia, Audi 🙂
How many haters have iphones?
not very exclusive these watches then ? sound like mass produced tat.
Things are not always what they appear. I hope your sister is being extravagant with money that's really hers.
Edukator, she worked hard 7days a week to build it then two years ago decided she had had enough and took a step back putting managers in to run it instead. The business soon began to suffer, loosing contracts, so she sacked them went back to work before then selling the business last year for a small fortune.
She is now bored with sitting at home and now looking to start another business just not yet sure what.
I'd imagine that the uber wealthy look at that thing as the mark of someone who's recently come in to a crap-load of money, i.e. the nouveau riche. There are probably far less well-known and more exclusive brands out there that "those in the know" would go for.
Speculation on my part of course, but c'mon, it's like winning the lotto and buying a lime-green lambo with gold mags versus a Maybach.
Excellent, Chip. Our friends had an offer of 4m for the business in its heyday, I suggested they take the money and do something else with it, or even nothing for a while. Perhaps that's why we haven't heard much from them of late.
Edit: just one word isn't so excellent, "bored". I haven't worked since 42 but being bored hasn't come into it. Perhaps she hasn't heard of STW. 😕
But seriously, with time and the money to do pretty much what you want how does one get bored?
Or would those in the know just use their phones to find out what time it is like everyone else?
I know when it's time for lunch, the sun comes around the corner of the house onto the area it's nice to sit and eat lunch.
I understand what mol grips is saying, u just don't agree with it. A nice watch is much the same as jewellery, people don't buy the cheapest tat they can find, they buy what they like. Why has gold always been expensive? Used to have no practical application whatsoever. How about pearls? Utterly useless, and yet, I'd be surprised if Mrs Molly doesn't own some bits and pieces of nice jewlry, and I'd also guess you've bought a couple of bits of it. this is no different to not buying the cheapest possible watch. If anyone on this thread has spent more than £10 on a watch, then they're playing the same game!
My wife chose her own engagement ring, cost £90 🙂 remember that diamonds are only expensive cos they are rare, not because they are any nicer than other gems. The market is controlled, so that they can milk you.
they are rare
They are not, they are expensive because their price is controlled.
'De Beers'. To me that means getting my round in.
Which you famously never do! 😛
