I work in the accounts team of a multinational company, and we have a December year end. Senior management have a tendency to say in December that we aren’t allowed to take any annual leave in the first quarter of the year, because Audit. Historically, I’ve never, in 4.5 years, been asked a question by the auditors, and have always managed to book a week off at the end of January to go skiing.
This year, I was supposed to be skiing the week after next, but that’s now not going to happen. I explained today that I had cancelled my January holiday, but might want to take a week off in March. Nothing was said, but the temperature of the conversation dropped several degrees…
Are managers legally able to block a request, made well in advance, for 6 days of holiday?
Yes normally
Holiday is taken at mutual convenience. What they cannot do is make it so you cannot take all your leave so any restrictions on when you can take leave must le3ave enough time for everyone to take their leave.
Its not uncommon to have times when leave is restricted but a whole 1/4 of the year could be seen as too restrictive - what does your union say?
(The back story to this is that as per my other threads I’ve bust my leg, so @stealthcat76 is cancelling her holiday to look after me and hoping to take it 6 weeks later when I’ll be much more capable and self sufficient. It may be legal to refuse holiday, but in a case like this, feels bloody unreasonable)
Yes they can, obviously with some exceptions.
Simple terms, yes they are not obliged to authorise holidays.
Has the trip been cancelled but still on annual leave?
Ultimately the reason is not your employer’s issue, but they could use discretion but that’s literally down to employer.
(The back story to this is that as per my other threads I’ve bust my leg, so @stealthcat76 is cancelling her holiday to look after me and hoping to take it 6 weeks later when I’ll be much more capable and self sufficient. It may be legal to refuse holiday, but in a case like this, feels bloody unreasonable)
Again - what does the union say? this sort of nonsense is why everyone should be in a union.
Legally, an employer has to allow you to take statutory leave. Moreover, they must insist that you take it, you can't just come to an "agreement" that you're not going to take any leave for the next five years.
However, they are under no obligation to allow you to pick and choose when that is. They'd be well within their rights to go "OK, Dave, you have most of January off, Sally you're taking February, etc... and that's everyone's leave sorted for 2026." Obviously companies don't do this because it is generally not in anyone's best interest. But, they could.
Personally I've always considered leave "requests" given with sufficient notice to be leave notifications, particularly if they're going to be arsey about it. "I'm not going to be here on [these dates], do what you will with that information." In your specific case I'd be prepared not to be able to cancel leave at short notice if there was a scenario where no work had been booked in for me to do as I'd already said I wasn't going to be in.
I have to say that, as a manager, this doesn’t sound like nonsense at all. Having said that, providing an employee worked with me (as their manager) I would definitely not block them from taking any Q1 holidays. But if they were in the accounts dept, and didn’t work with me on the dates they wanted to take, then I might not feel very positively disposed to being patient with them. This is not at all a thinly veiled criticism of the OP - im simply saying that having to work with your employer on when you can take hols- that sounds totally reasonable to me.
Again - what does the union say? this sort of nonsense is why everyone should be in a union.
What could a union say here? "This sort of nonsense" is not unlawful.
I have to say that, as a manager, this doesn’t sound like nonsense at all. Having said that, providing an employee worked with me (as their manager) I would definitely not block them from taking any Q1 holidays. But if they were in the accounts dept, and didn’t work with me on the dates they wanted to take, then I might not feel very positively disposed to being patient with them. This is not at all a thinly veiled criticism of the OP - im simply saying that having to work with your employer on when you can take hols- that sounds totally reasonable to me.
Anyone else completely fail to understand this?
What he is saying is that if an employer came and said "I want a week off in Jan I know we are busy at this time of year, do you think this week would be possible" then he is more likely to be co-operative than someone just demanding a specific week off without any concern to the work that is needed or their teammates.
I have never had a employer be arsey about holidays, I do have a specific clause in my contract that states holidays can be cancelled due to operational reasons, and it has been activated once, the clause does stipulate they will compensate any lost expenses (hotels, flights etc) we had a satellite to launch, it got delayed, I was needed to cover support shifts and I accepted when I took the job that was a possibility.
It used to be that 3 out of our 7 people team were mountain bikers, and we would go to the alps together for a week most years, and my manager was happy to try and work things around to allow that.
Are managers legally able to block a request, made well in advance, for 6 days of holiday?
They're not 'blocking it' they're not agreeing to your request, which is different. They're not telling you you can't have leave, they're just telling you "not then". I work in healthcare we have pretty much a blanket ban for the run up to Xmas as it's just mad busy. Anyone asking for time off from me then is mostly going to get a no, regardless of how early they request it.
Sometime the leave you want just isn't doable, and the company has the final say.
Again - what does the union say? this sort of nonsense is why everyone should be in a union.
What could a union say here? "This sort of nonsense" is not unlawful.
No but its very poor practice and as an ex union steward I would enjoy fighting it. As a union member yo0u have better protection , better advocacy and a better chance of forcing the issue.
Some banks certainly used to have periods when no staff were allowed leave. That's because the banking exams were on and they'd be short staffed. Allowing employees leave at that time would put other folks careers on hold/at risk.
They'd be well within their rights to go "OK, Dave, you have most of January off, Sally you're taking February, etc... and that's everyone's leave sorted for 2026." Obviously companies don't do this because it is generally not in anyone's best interest. But, they could.
No they cannot do this. AL is taken at mutual convenience. there are some circumstances in which leave can be mandated but not how you outline at all. that one would be easy to fight and a slam dunk win for the employee
In my experience, unless you're a single person dependency then as long as there's cover in the team you should be able to go on holiday. If you are a SPD then that's more the company's problem because you have to take holiday at some point, and what of questions come in then?
I’ve definitely worked rotas in the past when the dates of annual leave were mandated by my employer.
In the words of an old Finance Director "you're an accountant, what were you expecting"
Depends if your role is specifically to make sure the audit is successful, or if you're just there supporting that?
Blocking out 3 months where you cant take leave sounds unreasonable, but it sounds like they may have made adjustments for you to have the week off in January (any denied others because of that) so you now changing your plans could just create further headaches.
Oh for gawds sake TJ do you never empathise with anyone other than yourself? Of course SOME employers at SOME times can restrict annual leave. In the world of company finance its almost a given that you won't be taking leave in the last couple of weeks of March and the first week of April. Of course there are always exceptions like funerals etc but for a member a finance team to want a week in Marbs starting on the 30th March...well they wouldn't last long. What about a retail manager of a department store that wanted to take leave in the run up to Christmas? Or a vicar that fancied Easter off?
Not all businesses are out to screw the proletariat - sometimes they just need to survive. I'm very pro union but sometimes the stuff spouted in their name makes me laugh out loud.
Wait till he finds pre-booked leave even approved can be canceled.....
So hang on, your now going to be available to work in January (busy time) and now possibly requesting time off in March (less busy, but financial year end). They might be a bit put out seeing as how they had already agreed to the January holiday, but could just be the 'might' want a week off in March.
As for mandated holidays, yup it's a thing. I've been working at a place for ages that has prescribed shutdowns throughout the year, a relic of the Rover factory fortnight in UK automotive manufacturing. Whole plant/office staff off for two weeks in the summer, most expensive time of the year and a pita for us as we have no kids. But, it's what I signed up for so...
How do they cope with February half term?
Its probably more stress for other people. I havent got all the holiday id like this year as we'll be non stop busy and we have to organise holidays.
Problem for Jon is he broke his leg, ( are you back working) so would like to move his holiday, but it might really be a case of bad luck. Might? want a week in March is hard to plan round
I am in retail and we are not allowed to take any hols from mid Nov to start off Jan due to workload, and yes TJ, the union we work with have never had an issue with it.
Wait till he finds pre-booked leave even approved can be canceled.....
Cancel my leave? Fine. I'm not not taking it, though.
Yep. It's always best to try to work together, compromise as best you can because you still need to work with them, but you need to be prepared for them to be as robust as you in the responses.
They may well flatly refuse your leave, just as strongly as you refuse to give up your holiday 'request'. It'll all depend on what's in your contract re: A/L.
No but its very poor practice and as an ex union steward I would enjoy fighting it.
It's poor practice yes, but if the best you've got to counter with is "I don't like it" then I'd enjoy laughing you out of the room.
No they cannot do this. AL is taken at mutual convenience.
Wrong on both counts.
Maybe in Scotland the rules are different, I don't know, but no-one cares about Scotland. 😁
I also wonder at what the conversations had so far have been.
Given the broad (but not enforced, clearly) edict of no A/L in Q1, if the employer's actually agreed nonetheless to a week in Jan and now at short notice the OP has announced they want to cancel and instead they plan to take a week in Mar instead I might too be frosty given the pressures of year end reporting and so on.
If the OP has been honest and said that the other half has had an accident and bust a leg and needs help but will then be able to be cared for or self-sufficient in March so if there's any way we could see to rearrange the holiday although I know it's a real pain, as an employer I'd be far less frosty, even bending over backwards to help a valued employee out because I know how much they enjoy their ski-trip.
In the end, simple fact is that OP has been inconvenienced by the situation and that's the rub, shit happens, you can't automatically shove the inconvenience onto the company to mitigate your situation.
FWIW wherever I've worked we don't prevent holiday for key staff at certain times but it is controlled - eg: finance and commercial team will be able to take leave during budget period, but wouldn't be able to take the whole budget time off, would likely not be allowed 3 weeks and held to shorter, and certainly if on 2 week's notice advised they were changing it would also get a frosty answer
There's not been much mention of the words in the contract, which can have significance. My employer closed the office between Christmas and New Year and it was in our contract that we had to take leave. Otherwise it was at the line manager's discretion, one of those things where if you play ball, they will. Those who were prepared to work late or at a weekend to cope with the unexpected would find it easier to take leave when they wanted to.
Don't ask.
You submitted the form... they lost it. ;_)
Go on hols.
However...
.. ps Think about it, your middle class holiday has been cancelled...your saving the environment 🙂 Win.
Workers have pissed their rights and benefits away years ago for the sake of few extra quid from weaselly employers and governments.
Hard Luck.
i very much doubt that in a private company workplace about a holiday decision. They haven’t actually said no, the “temperature dropped” which seems to me like they were internally going “FFS” not actually refusing it. In part that might have been how it was presented by the OP - as a fait a complis rather than a request. Personally I’ve always found it more irritating when an employee wants to cancel leave than book it. I have one employee who chops and changes plans all the time and doesn’t seem to understand we fit other people’s leave, customer projects etc around it - and like many people sees that if he can’t travel he should cancel the time off. His most recent one was cancelling a trip and the associated leave two days before because his cat was sick and couldn’t go to the catery! When I pointed out that telling us on Friday that he would in fact be there on Monday was a bit short notice he referred to a conversation we had two weeks before and that I had let him have time off to go to the vets at the start of the week. So some employees are just difficult and probably don’t realise they are difficult. (And I’ll talk to my union rep is an example of that - why not just talk to the manager about if it’s going to cause an issue? In the OPs case it wouldn’t be surprising if other people in the team are arsey about him getting Jan leave each year against policy, or other people have been refused leave in March etc).Again - what does the union say? this sort of nonsense is why everyone should be in a union.
What could a union say here? "This sort of nonsense" is not unlawful.
No but its very poor practice and as an ex union steward I would enjoy fighting it. As a union member yo0u have better protection , better advocacy and a better chance of forcing the issue.
I’m a bit surprised the OP is going skiing so soon after a tib and fib break. Perhaps the medics are ok with this but I would have thought even if the bone had 100% healed then muscles etc might still need to recover. I imagine that the OP might also have had some time off sick with this? The other thing employees often do is treated absence from work in silos. Managers tend to see it more binary - working/not-working. If for example someone had 6 weeks off recovering from surgery and then said oh I’m going to take a couple of weeks holiday that might well get an eye roll. If he sees skiing as risky he may well be thinking - and then youll have another six weeks off!
is the partner also at the same firm? Same dept?
none of that means you wouldn’t get the leave - it means it might not be good for your career prospects to be perceived as the difficult one.
OP hasn't broken their leg, OP is cancelling because other half who is also a steering has. Confused me until I read the chain properly
Yep, sorry, both of us posting on the thread might be confusing things.
For reference we both WFH full time.
OP (my other half) is intact physically, stressed out of her box mentally as her dickhead boyfriend has just ****ed both his and her life's up. She already had a load of stress from other bits of her life and now I've dropped this on her.
As stands, when we were due to go in 2 weeks, I'll either just be post op, or maybe still waiting. Currently I'm very reliant on her for all kinds of stupid stuff.
In 3 months time, I should be a lot more competent, and she's very welcome to bugger off, get some "me time" and leave me to cope. I'm all for that. She will absolutley need the break if she's going to carry on functioning.
Yes, the cancellation is short(ish) notice, but the rebook is not far off 1/4 a year away
Her work haven't actually said "no", but they're already being a bit grumpy about her needing to shuttle me to hospital etc at short notice, even though she WILL make up time outside core hours, and she's never, never, failed to get work done before a deadline. (She's far more committed to her work than I am to mine, but my employers are much more relaxed and don't really care when I do stuff so long as its done). There's quite a heavy German "in ordnung" presenteeism culture, which seems to lose a dose of humanity along the way. (IMO)
To Jon, after injuries you can get back into action quite quickly but it's not always a good idea. Better to have an easy year just building slowly in the hope that if you do you'll get fully fit again without any permanent handicap. Take each day as it comes rather than making ambitious plans and be pleased if you can walk a bit further each week when you can walk again. Don't overdo the crutches, it's easy to injure shoulders
To Stealthcat: courage! us bokes are a nightmare when we're injured and out of action but chances are by this time next year he'll be back to being just normal bloke level of difficult. In the greater scheme of things how important is this holiday, it's just one of hundreds you'll have in your life? If Madame Edukator had a broken leg Ikd be looking to book holiday in September doing something like riding a bike through France which Jon is likely to be fit enough to enjoy.
I'd only piss off work if I were intending to leave.
Yep, sorry, both of us posting on the thread might be confusing things.ah sorry my misreading!
well if you did that by breaking your leg, then its not really ****ed up anyones life even if it seems like it. You need to up your game if you really want to **** up lives - arrests, loan sharks, gambling the house at poker...OP (my other half) is intact physically, stressed out of her box mentally as her dickhead boyfriend has just ****ed both his and her life's up. She already had a load of stress from other bits of her life and now I've dropped this on her.