I've never been in a YHA at dusk or dawn, always been outside at those times. And I'd rather have some decent sleep in a Premier Inn or similar than try and sleep in what passes as a bed in a YHA. Sure it was fine back in theday when it was £20-30 a night, but when you are pricing in hotel price ranges, then I'll go to a hotel thanks, If you want cheap now, then it seems camping is the better option.
they are going to get away with it.
A not for profit organisation with no shareholders 'getting away with it'. Does not compute. I don't object to a honeypot location having prices higher than others to help subsidise other locations so the broad network of locations can be maintained.
Sadly I think the millennial generation gets the YHA they deserve. As previously said YHA was all about basic large dorms not private rooms and costs kept to a minimum by limiting opening times during the day and guests doing their chores. Millennials could not stomach this level of 'suffering' and needed home comforts and entertaining so they lost their cheap accommodation and the unique comradery the old model provided. Glad I was a youthful user of the YHA in the 80's though curiously the new variant is pretty good for a middle aged softy with more cash in his pocket and an old man's body.
It was fine until they allowed people to roll up in cars. Then I bought a bivvy bag.
Also for curiosity sakes I checked out the cost of premier inns in the general area of the lakes in August. Still way cheaper to be in a YHA. And let's face it the other is a premier inn. Souless places I'd avoid if I could, especially on holiday. Especially when it's not where I want to actually be.
Sure it was fine back in theday when it was £20-30 a night
Barrowdale was £13 pppn for a bed in a shared room on good Friday when i checked a few minutes ago.
Just saying mind.
The downside to it in the end comes down to 3 other youth people 11yrs old have not experienced a fairly remote YHA like Borrowdale away from the constraints of family and having a bit of freedom. YOUTH hosteling association needs to change its title.
PS the could always charge for parking 🙂
Where does STW stand on working class folks who enjoyed visiting YHA, got educated and took good jobs, became middle class, and returned to using them as adults, with their Audi in the car park?
Sure it was fine back in theday when it was £20-30
Which it still is.
stop capitalizing youth as if to make a point.
YOUTH being between ages of 15 and 24 - the numbers that are placed by definition upon that area between childhood and adulthood
its those pesky people that keep bringing their kids to the YHA that do my head in *
*absolutely tongue in cheek joking i really don't mind kids at hostels and love hosteling- great place to meet like minded folk when out and about world wide - but nigh on always hit the dorms because I'm a penny pincher unless traveling in a group that can fully utilize a private room.
Sure it was fine back in theday when it was £20-30 a night
£20-£30? I remember when it was £3-£5
Where does STW stand on working class folks who enjoyed visiting YHA, got educated and took good jobs, became middle class, and returned to using them as adults, with their Audi in the car park?
Well, that's a good question and perhaps WE are partly to blame?
I think this also depends what you call middle class... that for me is about when you pay someone to do something you could do yourself because your time is "valuable". (As opposed to Upper Class where your time isn't but you pay someone to do that thing.. like having a dedicated gardner or driver though I think then they are called chauffers etc.) - It's a long list but for me it means that on a regular basis you pay someone to make your coffee/sandwich etc.
This seems (from my perspective) to be the default for everyone now... though many might want to be labelled differently.
Back when I used the YHA the difference between £2 and £3 was huge to me. The difference between hitching /walking/cycling vs a bus or train was huge.
Perhaps the thing is it's only those of us for whom the YHA provided that way to get away to places that appreciate what it was?
I didn't stop in one in years but I'd like to think the experience was available to my son.
I think this also depends what you call middle class…
Yeah, for what it's worth, it certainly wasn't a serious question. Working class, middle class are generally nonsense terms in modern society imo.
To help the OP, a quick search got Ennerdale YHA for £79-94/ night depending on whether you want en-suite or not checking in on 30th March for two nights. You will also get the member discount which with save up to a further £7.50 a night
https://www.yha.org.uk/hostel/ennerdale
The rest of the pricing looks premium so keep checking and I would expect the usual 25% off email in a couple of weeks
I love the YHA and we as a family have stayed in them many times. You can still achieve that old fashioned experience that people love(d) where you strike up a conversation with the randoms who populate the place. If you have klids they are great, they meet other kids and go off to play and you settle down for a chat with the parents over a pint. Travelling solo they are also excellent and you can meet some right characters. The food is priced well and usually satisfying and the locations are usually fantastic. The Ambleside one for eg, where else could you get accomodation at the lake edge for £15pppn? Another of my favourites is the Buttermere one, lovely little hostel without any mobile signal.
angeldustWhere does STW stand on working class folks who enjoyed visiting YHA, got educated and took good jobs, became middle class, and returned to using them as adults, with their Audi in the car park?
Let's be quite clear, you can't change class, if you were born working class you will die working class. Your achievements and associations in life may mean your grandchildren might be born middle class but your own station in life will never change. You can be rich beyond even the dreams of a saudi princling but, if your granddad worked down a mine and your parents went to a state school with Dave you're working class. Equally you can be stone cold broke but entirely upper class because your granddad was named Tarquin-Farquah without the slightest hint of irony and played cricket with George back when he was called Albert.
they stay in the YHA at Lee Valley which looks great.
Well yes, as long as they only leave the YHA to get on the train (next door) or take a nice walk around the LV Park.
However under no circumstances should they walk up the road to Cheshunt.
Are you setting the rules then Dangeourbrain? I'm afraid your point of view is out of date.
In the traditional sense (Karl Marx) if you do not own 'the means of production' then you are working class. That means you and me and prety much everyone is working class, we sell our labour for less than it is worth in return for some coins. = Capitalism. A more contemporary approach (I forget who proposed it, have a look at wikipedia) split the working class into middle and working class with the defining difference being if you used your hands (physical labour) or your brain (mental labour) for labour. Therefore an IT middle manager is middle class and a bus driver or garage mechanic is working class. Therefore it is entirely possible through education to transcend your birth class and climb the ladder. 🙂
I find the talk of the class of the YHA strange. Maybe it's because I've only been using the YHA for 30 odd years; maybe it's because I only tended to use YHAs in traditionally 'outwardbound' areas or maybe it's because I'm relatively class blind but I've never really considered the class of fellow guests. I've always just considered them as 'enlightened' - folk that prioritise natural places and spending time with people of similar persuasion over the pull of the Spanish Costas etc.
.
Incorrect.
Millennials are older that you assume. By most definitions millennials are those born early 80's to late 90's. So by 2005 the first millenials were in their early 20s. So prime YHA candidates.
You are thinking of Gen Z.
edit - you have deleted your post so I assume you realised your error.
When I first used Youth Hostels (1966, I think) you had to arrive under your own steam, bike or on foot. No cars allowed. And you were given chores, plus when you made your meals you had to do all the washing up and putting away (except your own plate & cutlery) before you ate.
A bit different from last time in Coniston where you chose your dinner off a menu, there was a licensed bar and a disco (complete with light show) on Friday nights.
On balance I think I prefer the one without the ex-squaddie running the disco. But in the 1960s I seem to remember some of the wardens being a little over-attentive to me and my friend (both 13).
Let’s be quite clear, you can’t change class
It really depends what you define as "Class"
Are you setting the rules then Dangeourbrain? I’m afraid your point of view is out of date.
In the traditional sense (Karl Marx) if you do not own ‘the means of production’ then you are working class. That means you and me and prety much everyone is working class, we sell our labour for less than it is worth in return for some coins. = Capitalism. A more contemporary approach (I forget who proposed it, have a look at wikipedia) split the working class into middle and working class with the defining difference being if you used your hands (physical labour) or your brain (mental labour) for labour. Therefore an IT middle manager is middle class and a bus driver or garage mechanic is working class. Therefore it is entirely possible through education to transcend your birth class and climb the ladder.
I think "using your hands" is a bit blunt ... in terms of someone who owns/owned a string of Jewellery shops etc. but say only trusted themselves cutting the most expensive diamond etc.
At the time I think this was more about physical labour vs mercantile class (who would fit that upper working class) .. vs people who's titles and estates let them live a life of leisure.
The person owning the Jewelery shop/chain might employ a doorman, other Jewelers etc. (or someone might own a company letting out security/doormen)
This all harks back to at least Roman times... where there was Equestrian and Senatorial class but the entry to the Equestrain Class at least at some times had a fixed value.
Ultimately I think what splits this until most recently is if you can afford to pay people to do everyday stuff you could do yourself... be that bleeding your brakes or changing a chain or making your cup of coffee.
I guess that's not cast in stone which is what makes it a bit vague... I can afford to pay someone to bleed my brakes... I just find it inconvenient to have to take a bid to a shop for 5-10 mins of work.. and I also object to not doing it myself. On the other side I know many people who can't really afford to pay £3-£4 for several coffee's a day, or to pay the same for someone to make their lunch but they do it anyway.
I find the talk of the class of the YHA strange. Maybe it’s because I’ve only been using the YHA for 30 odd years; maybe it’s because I only tended to use YHAs in traditionally ‘outwardbound’ areas or maybe it’s because I’m relatively class blind but I’ve never really considered the class of fellow guests. I’ve always just considered them as ‘enlightened’ – folk that prioritise natural places and spending time with people of similar persuasion over the pull of the Spanish Costas etc.
Well, perhaps class is one aspect or not.
The point is people who needed cheaper accommodation to see these natural places but equally were willing to trade some of their labour for this.
Back in the day I used to have a few hostels where I got given chores I enjoyed (like cutting firewood)
[i]postierich wrote:[/i]
The downside to it in the end comes down to 3 other youth people 11yrs old have not experienced a fairly remote YHA like Borrowdale away from the constraints of family and having a bit of freedom. YOUTH hosteling association needs to change its title.
I is confused. So were these 11yos all going on their own without any responsible parents?
Anyway, as has been pointed out, "youth" doesn't refer to children, and there are plenty of times other than one of the busiest weekends of the year when they could go - if they're 11, then they could presumably go Monday to Thursday the week before or after when it's a lot cheaper. It's not the pricing at a time when the YHA could probably sell the room 10 times over which is preventing them going. Just to expand on the first point, the "youth" in the title don't need a private room which is always a lot more expensive per bed than a dorm bed, so the pricing of private rooms is utterly irrelevant to the core ethos of the YHA.
Let’s be quite clear, you can’t change class, if you were born working class you will die working class.
The terms seem to be subjective and ill-defined enough to be practically meaningless, so imo I don't think you can make any sort of definitive judgement on that. Not beyond your personal opinion anyway. It's also pointless, but that's largely beside the point.
I left YHA when it became almost impossible to stay at any hostels because they were never bloody open. Even major routes like the Pennine Way it became almost impossible to put together a mid week trip
They then seemingly decided to push all the resources into flagship urban hostels like Oxford, and let the rest wither on the vine, using low booking rates (see above) as justification to close them and sell them off.
Aracer no I would have been going with my wife but the youngsters would be free to do as they wish up to a point Myself in the van and Wifey in the room!!
The point of the post was to find out why Centre Parcs gets so much grief but The YHA seems to do no wrong.
Some mentioned the Ambleside YHA thats where they are going wrong IMHO soulless place full of Stags Lads and Lassies weekends and their only intention is to do a pub crawl around Ambleside and maybe give the ducks some bread
The Pemier Inns on the outskirts of the Lakes are far cheaper than that, and a hell of a lot nicer then a YHA. Albeit you aren’t in such a ‘lovely’ location, but if you have transport that’s no big deal.
Seems to me YHA are taking the p*ss with some of their pricing, but if people are still paying then they are going to get away with it. Like everything vote with your feet and stay elsewhere.
Yeah. I can't believe a property elsewhere with different facilities charges a different amount. Or do premier inns have cooking facilities, drying rooms etc. nowadays?
It's clear I've hit a bit of a nerve so should apologise, largely as a yha thread is the wrong place for a discussion about class. I'm happy to come out and play on a new thread mind...
Sorry, i should have learnt by now sarcasm often doesn't work in writing. Mea culpa. Be it representative of my views or otherwise it certainly wasn't meant to be interpreted as such.
I’ll give this a go but it might be long!
The flexible pricing YHA been doing in various forms for about the last 8 years, it started off as seasonal and has now evolved to the what has been commented on above. This means that people who can afford the peak times are charged something that still represents value for money but during the lower demand times it can be cheaper so that anyone can come away and have a holiday. Winter is full of people having their first stay in YHA.
The money YHA make goes into the charitable object and the buildings as tiger1971 says above. The charitable bit is where the youth part of YHA comes in by helping, mainly organised groups, to be able to take kids on trips. This comes in the form of providing the hostels for them to do that and also part funding those who would struggle to afford their visit through the YHA breaks scheme. The idea of young people (and that means under 26 for YHA) travelling independently is no longer as widespread as it once was outside of the city locations.
alric in winter most of those hostels that are not open operate on an exclusive hire basis so you can rent the entire building for a set price (this varies as well new year being the most expensive time to do this) so no conspiracy theories needed. http://exclusive-hire.yha.org.uk/search/all-properties
Times change and move on. When I were a lad on school trips and trips with the cub scouts we'd stay at YHA's or camp, and did simpler activities like walking, making den's and generally messing about. As much about play as education, but my kids and the youth of today stay at much nicer places these days with more facilities and do activities that are teaching them life skills such as communication, teamwork, how to solve challenges. Simple fun and play doesn't really come into it. Things cost more, but parents are prepared to pay more than back in the day and most can afford to pay more. That's progress I guess. The simpler life us oldies remember is from a bygone era.
The YHA has to move with the times or it becomes irrelevant and unsustainable. It can't exist for the small percentage of people who want it to remain as it always was.
Actually my memories of YHA were they were pretty crappy places. Cheap yes and located within stunning locations, which was the main reason for using them, but they were pretty dreadful from what I can remember.
Times change and move on. When I were a lad on school trips and trips with the cub scouts we’d stay at YHA’s or camp, and did simpler activities like walking, making den’s and generally messing about. As much about play as education, but my kids and the youth of today stay at much nicer places these days with more facilities and do activities that are teaching them life skills such as communication, teamwork, how to solve challenges. Simple fun and play doesn’t really come into it. Things cost more, but parents are prepared to pay more than back in the day and most can afford to pay more. That’s progress I guess. The simpler life us oldies remember is from a bygone era.
The YHA has to move with the times or it becomes irrelevant and unsustainable. It can’t exist for the small percentage of people who want it to remain as it always was.
I don't think that's exactly the case ... I guess we are prepared to pay more but for me that's simply because of what is available and possible today.
I would much prefer my son had the basic fun and play. At his age (8) I walked to school and took my younger brother along... in evenings and holidays we hung about or went out in the countryside, rode our bikes etc.
(Not that really that far off Enid Blyton without the mysteries, chocolate eclairs and lashings of ginger beer)
Basically we enjoyed freedoms just not available or acceptable today.
Actually my memories of YHA were they were pretty crappy places. Cheap yes and located within stunning locations, which was the main reason for using them, but they were pretty dreadful from what I can remember.
i have very fond memories of the freedoms this gave me when a bit older than my son is now. I could set out with very little money having booked some hostels by that antiquated postal system... keeping a 10p and 2p coin for emergencies and check-in with parents...
Same goes for camping ... I'd much rather just a field than all this modern stuff with showers and all sorts...
The peak supply and demand argument is bullshit though surely?
In quiet times, you don't get proportionately fewer staff per customer and vice versa when it's busy.
More customers = more staff. It's a 1:1 ratio surely. At busy times on holiday, do you - the individual - get more care from a holiday company? No. It's the same . I daresay less.
Profiteering pure and simple.
I am a huge YHA fan and member.
I think they are stuck in middle ground (like many outdoor centres).
Too many folk want en-suite, want a canteen, want everything cleaned and provided. Yet at a budget cost.
The budget hotels and B&B's can often supply that at lower cost (see comments over travel lodge for example), and folk often eat out rather than expect the kitchen to cook your own.
As soon as you price B&B + evening meal out + lunch from cafe you get to Hotel prices.
YHA are trying to provide more, yet hitting the B&B and hotel prices, without as much plushness.
Those of us who want basic are unimpressed by the costs on weekends and holidays now.
I find a few private hostels offer better value, and many offer a more basic, traditional YHA experience.
"The peak supply and demand argument is bullshit though surely?
In quiet times, you don’t get proportionately fewer staff per customer and vice versa when it’s busy.
More customers = more staff. It’s a 1:1 ratio surely. At busy times on holiday, do you – the individual – get more care from a holiday company? No. It’s the same . I daresay less.
Profiteering pure and simple."
not sure which part of charging more at peak demand (when someone will pay it) to cover lean times (when people come because its cheap but are many other options) deem to be profiteering.
last time i checked YHA experiance was not driven by staff attention. it was driven by there being a bed in the area i want to be in at that particular time.
"Profiteering pure and simple."
What the economically illiterate often fail to grasp is that the breakeven cost at holiday centres/hotels/YHAs etc is not the low season price. Invariably establishments are operating at a loss at these times of the year; are charging as much as the market will bear in order to be in operation for the high season. Sure they will be making a profit in high season but it is not as excessive as you might think if you just compare to the low season price.
It is not pure and it certainly is not simple. If anyone thinks so I would invite them to consider running a tourist/activity centre and come back when suitably humbled.
"Same goes for camping … I’d much rather just a field than all this modern stuff with showers and all sorts…"
Shit me the cost of camping ..... hooow much .... even those without facilities these days seem to think they can charge top dollar.... 20+ quid a night for a spot in a field ?
Aye, love spending nights in the van on biking weekends, but most of the time it's cheaper to stay in YH than pay for a spot at a campsite.
[i]Pook wrote:[/i]
The peak supply and demand argument is bullshit though surely?
In quiet times, you don’t get proportionately fewer staff per customer and vice versa when it’s busy.
More customers = more staff. It’s a 1:1 ratio surely. At busy times on holiday, do you – the individual – get more care from a holiday company? No. It’s the same . I daresay less.
Profiteering pure and simple.
That's a batshit mental argument which completely ignores supply and demand!
Just ran the numbers for a weekend in May at the Aberdeen SYHA vs Malmaisson (they are on the same street).
2 people doube room (ensuite) we have:-
SYHA - £178 (inc. Continental Breakfast) NB: I accept that the SYHA will do shared rooms for a lot less than that.
Malmaisson - £218 (without breakfast)
I'll be honest I didn't expect the numbers to be so close.
Just looked at another hotel/bar on the same street and they say they'd do B&B for £140. So looking at those number the SYHA are around what a mid range hotel would charge.
I've not stayed in an "English" YHA hostel; I have stayed in a lot of Scottish (SYHA) hostels and independent hostels as well as hostels across Europe.
It is interesting that SYHA have just rebranded as Hostelling Scotland. They no longer see a need to put the emphasis on Youth. They also felt it put off a lot of people who perhaps haven't been in a hostel for 20+ yrs but who would actually fit with what they are now.
Quite a lot of YH customers are actually foreign travellers on tour. Private rooms, mixed rooms etc are things that have been "the norm" on the continent for years. As a family I'll pay extra for those. On my own I'm happy to share for bargain rates.
In terms of the Aberdeen Hostel - I expect the facilities are not far off a reasonable hotel; and I'd bet more people stay in Mal Maison and have an expensive b/fast, and maybe a beer in the bar the night before than do in the hostel. The average customer spend at checkout will be very different.
It is interesting that SYHA have just rebranded as Hostelling Scotland. They no longer see a need to put the emphasis on Youth. They also felt it put off a lot of people who perhaps haven’t been in a hostel for 20+ yrs but who would actually fit with what they are now.
It's a bit sad IMHO ... firstly that there isn't the facility for youths to gain this travel experience but also that perhaps many are not getting the opportunity when time rich and finance poor.
My late teens I had lots of time and very little money... YHA's both UK and wider provided a way for me to spend this time gaining experiences that are much harder to have once you are an adult with a job and "career path".
It's also a useful life skill learning to live on a budget.