UPDATE: CLASSIFIEDS section refreshed, redesigned, searchable: Go take a look
First decide if you can accept the generic risks of service, then think if the military lifestyle will suit. Only then if you are fully reconciled to these, think about branch and role based on your skills and interests. IMO people who have approached enlistment with that mindset, rather than "I fancy getting a trade and doing a bit of free travel" are far more likely to stick it out, enjoy it and do well.
I'd echo that. The latter stick out like a sore thumb during training and beyond if they get through it.
Any job that you're not committed to is going to be shite. The amplification of that shite is significant when your employer owns your ass 24/7.
I got some great advice from a REME officer. "RE build bridges under fire. We recover and fix vehicles. If someone starts shooting at us we get in our trucks and f*** off". He was also similarly scathing about artillery and cavalry.
Not such great advice. All cap badges slag off all the others, all the time. The Sappers call the REME "Royal Engineers Made Easy" (amongst other things). You'll never get an unbiased opinion about one branch or cap badge from someone serving in another.
REgards. 🤮
Now this is where the forces come in! I believe they offer very good apprentice training and she'd probably stand more chance of getting training this way. But obviously harassment worry comes into play here - but doing a google it's statistically less
The horse industry is known for bullying and harassment in certain areas, my sister-in-law’s son was training as a farrier, and the bullying got so bad he took his own life!
The military does have a reputation as well, but it’s much higher profile, the media has done a lot to expose this and I think as a result the senior officers are being more proactive in clamping down on it.
It seems to be more Army, perhaps a rather more macho type tend to be attracted to that arm of the services, so looking for similar types of training in the Air Force and Navy might be a better option, with opportunities for travel being an obvious attraction with the Navy!
Good luck to her, I honestly think she’s doing absolutely the right thing, and wish her the very best of luck with her new career! 🫶🏻👍🏻
Would he?
@relapsed_mandalorian ... Probably. But then he's madder than a bucket of spiders, which is why I love him! 🙂
It was all he ever wanted to do, to follow in his dad's footsteps. He joined 'The Mob' at 16 (we waved him off at the station) and he did 30 odd years. I went to his retirement do last year. I always tell him how proud I am of him and how grateful we all are for his service, and that of those like him. But it took its tole on him mentally and physically. I think if you're going to do it, it needs to be something of a vocation and you have to go into it with your eyes wide open. He's seen a ton of shit that you really don't want to be seeing and been to some scary places. He's made of sterner stuff than me.
Hang on, she has a HGV license - go for driving. My son did IT, he was good, but a desk job wasn't good for him. He's done hours on Euro Truck etc, farming SIM, then went for his HGV and passed it. Only issue at 24 was not enough experience, but has got into it and is driving through agencies in the biggest double decker stuff. Suits him to the ground, and can take time off when needed. He is also Type 1 diabetic, so has enhanced health checks. He's 26 next (in November) and now has a year in driving the big stuff. Loads of work, he loves it.
I haven't read 'all' the above so apologies if I missed someone else saying this but I'd like to offer the thought that the key question for any person thinking of joining up is simply 'Do they want to?'.
Some folk have a yearning to find out what lies on the other side of those barbed-wire-topped fences and what life in uniform is actually like, if the person in question has that desire, then they should go find out for themselves. It's not a logical decision tho, simply a question of 'wanting' and so logical arguments are not likely to be effective as a dissuader.
Just my thoughts.
How about the Navy ?
On the TV progs about them, there always seems to be a lot of women in that service
A long, long time ago, I was contemplating a short service commission in an infantry regiment, or the artillery and was also about to do Para selection. I spent a couple of weeks in Germany with an infantry battalion and was accepted by them.
Ultimately I decided it wasn't my bag partly because the idea of killing other people potentially in aid of a cause or policy I didn't believe in wasn't something I could do, but also because spending two weeks in an officers' mess and training with them, left me doubting that I could cope with being institutionalised to that extent. I'm not, btw, judging anyone else, that was me and my personal take. I honestly think I would have made a terrible soldier, not so much in terms of capabilities, but mindset.
Which was kind of a longwinded way of saying, is there a way your daughter could get some sort of similar familiarisation gig that might just tell her more about whether life in the services would suit her than any amount of well-meaning advice from vets / people who's friends served etc.
Oddly, fwiw, I was more concerned about killing other people than potentially being killed myself - which probably explains why I spent years riding motorcycles and climbing mountains and was convinced I'd never make it past 30.
If it was my daughter I wouldn’t be overly excited about it, although the role and service might make a difference. As a “way to get a trade” it seems an odd choice.
Vehicle Mechanic apprenticeships are fairly hard to get even for people who have been tinkering for years - although she MIGHT have an advantage with an HGV license for bus/truck operators, and don’t forget police, fire etc employ mechanics.
why does she want to be a mechanic if she has little experience and is intimidated to pick up the phone and call the garage (I don’t think that is a diagnosis - that’s just Gen X).
I served nearly 12 years in the Royal Engineers and left just over 3 years ago so can share a few thoughts in no particular order.
While all capbadges will provide transferable leadership skills, I'd suggest joining a technical Corps (RE, REME, Sigs) to get more transferable skills such as a trade.
I really enjoyed what I did but my enjoyment waned when I bought a house with my now wife as I felt I was never at home and weekly commuting to camp became a chore. For someone young with no real commitments it's a good lifestyle.
She needs to have a tolerance for being at the whim of the army in regards to going different places, working weekends etc etc
If you live on camp and are frugal, your paycheck is pretty much pocket money after relatively minimal charges. With good discipline she could easily put a good chunk each month into savings for a house etc. Equally, it could be easy to spend everything she earns depending on her character.Additionally she'll accrue a non contributory pension.
The 'offer' in terms of pay, pension, perks etc continues to erode as with many things in society. There are less opportunities for AT, fewer people to do the tasks and less resources for training. There are still some good things on offer but they are harder to get.
Depending on what she wants, and qualifications, think about whether she is best suited to be an officer or soldier. Both have pros and cons.
A visit to a recruiting office would probably allow her to attend a familiarisation day and see if she thinks she'd like the career.
Another option depending on where based is looking at apprenticeships at large organisations such as BAE Systems?
My friend in the army had a great time, left, became a mercenary, made a staggering amount of money and killed a huge number of people. He sums up his career and the army as,
Poor cants killing other poor cants to make rich cants richer. Hes ok unlike a large number of his friends who he buried.
Power companis recruit a lot and have well paid training opportunities.
In a word... Yes
I spent 22 years in the RAF as a Weapons engineer and loved every minute of it. I was lost before I joined up and didnt know what I wanted to do. I was doing 3 concurrent trivial jobs just to keep up with my mates who were doing electrical apprenticeships and earning good money.
I joined the RAF in 1998 and left in 2020. Did a tour of Iraq, 3 tours of Afghan and 2 tours of the Falklands. All great experiences.
Ive tried to encourage my two lads to join up as I can see them going the same way I was at their age. My youngest has applied for lots of motor vehicle apprenticeships and got nowhere.
If I were to join now I would look at a proper engineering trade though, something that can be better used when you leave the military. Like aircraft avionics/electrical or mechanical engineer.
I came out with lots of quals and walked into a health and safety career.
Oh and someone mentioned Bastion was never breached. Not sure if it was tongue in cheek but it definitely did as I was playing table tennis in the Rub hangar when the bullets started bouncing off the iso container 🙂
I wouldn't. I've known and worked with too many people that have served in Afghanistan and seen the damage it has done to them to ever wish that on my children.
Grim reading. I wonder how much of that is the Andrew Tait effect on young male attitudes in general combined with a lord of the flies, group think style acceptability in a high density institution like that.
Whatever....the army needs to take serious steps and to be frank sound like they should have done years ago.
Yeah - I read that article earlier. Perhaps 16 is too young to be recruiting, they're still children with no world experience.
We've parked it in the 'only as an absolute last resort' option!
She's got herself an interview at a local Land Rover/Jaguar main dealer next week as a apprentice automotive technician. So fingers crossed! 🤞
She'll be busy then! *LOADS* of warranty work...
She's got herself an interview at a local Land Rover/Jaguar main dealer next week as a apprentice automotive technician. So fingers crossed! 🤞
Good start. Should also focus on EV related because that's becoming popular.
I was talking to the owner of the garage I take the van to and he was saying there's going to be a real issue in 4 years time as no one can get an apprentice to take up the tools (well numbers are low). He had to turn away a job and the guy was saying that it was the 4th garage he'd tried.
It was a big discussion point at some Scottish motor trade shindig.
Good start. Should also focus on EV related because that's becoming popular.
Hopefully because of the way JLR is going that would be the focus of the training.
Whatever arm of the military, or particular trade/specialisation, make sure that the training results in an actual qualification that is recognised on civvy street.
I was a seaman officer in the RN for 8 years, under the RN system I could be the officer of the watch on anything from a patrol boat to an aircraft carrier. Counted for nothing once out of the RN.
Many trades are "equivalent", but may not be recognised without further training, as was my case.
Whatever arm of the military, or particular trade/specialisation, make sure that the training results in an actual qualification that is recognised on civvy street.
I was a seaman officer in the RN for 8 years, under the RN system I could be the officer of the watch on anything from a patrol boat to an aircraft carrier. Counted for nothing once out of the RN.
John Nichol (one of the RAF Tornado guys shot down in Iraq) wrote a couple of books on life in Tornado squadrons, he was a navigator (technically "weapons system operator" rather than nav but nav was the common term) on bombers then on the F3 fighter variant. One of his comments was the note that much as he was highly qualified in weapons systems operation, none of it was remotely relevant to anything in civvy life; you couldn't even get a job in the airlines since he wasn't a pilot and airlines don't tend to employ weapons systems or their operators.
you couldn't even get a job in the airlines since he wasn't a pilot
Neither are most military pilots. They may have the experience, but they still need to pay for all the exams, tyre ratings and instrument flying qualifications.
As seadog101 says, very few trades have a civilian qual off the bat, there is good reason for this.
The forces would haemorrhage people in greater numbers. Or they would need to be even more judicious in their use of return of service agreements to give the taxpayer some ROI.
My advice will always be find something you enjoy first, you can collect qualifications along the way.
Plenty of opportunity to use standard and enhanced learning credits for training.
The entire leadership development concept is aligned with the CMI so sign up for that.
Also, don't be scared to rebadge, have some fun for a few years then find something more sensible.
Don't squander resettlement time and money when that comes around, have a plan more than a year out.
In a word, no
I've typed out so many response to this.
I have strong options on AFC and why it doesn't work and what might improve it. But there kinda moot.
I just don't think 16year olds should be in that environment at all. But it is a cheeky way to get the manned strength numbers up and dance around the 'MOD recruiting child soldiers' controversy. But they are doing just that.
As to the recruits there are vexatious accusations that destroy careers and lives that come from making really poor choices, that speaks to a lack of safeguarding and complete denial of the reality of youth and the level of supervising they require in those establishments.
There are more accusations that have credibility, with very few that end in convictions. That's down to poor instructor selection and poor safeguarding and poor supervision. I can't comment on the civpol investigations, but there isn't a good national track history in such offences so that speaks for itself I guess.
I knew some absolute creatures that went to be instructors, the bar is nowhere near high enough for that role. The irony is recruit instruction is where you really see the character of individuals, they have more power and control over a group of kids than most other jobs that are 'in loco parentis' but nowhere near the level of scrutiny required to be selected for others.
Sandhurst has a harder selection for instructors.
I'm a bus mechanic, it's a well known in my industry that ex army mechanics are useless (with rare exception) the issues are a lack of ability to think around a problem creatively and also having an understanding of modern vehicle technology, in short being ordered to replace parts on old land rovers is not transferable to civvy street.
Forget car mechanics it's over saturated with people and pay is poor £14 p/h at a main dealer, truck and bus mechanics are on about £20 p/h and rail £25.
Large bus operators are especially progressive for women in the workplace and Go Ahead for example currently have many female apprentice bus mechanics, electricians and body repairers.
I did my apprenticeship with First bus, no bullying, no 'lad' culture it was very good, this was in Leeds (different depots vary).
Across the board there is nationwide shortage of technicians, bus industry, truck, rail, aviation. All those industries are terrible at advertising and recruiting staff, they lack staff, but you have to go to them and pester them for a job, it's weird.
Don't get me wrong, my time in the RN was great.
Although my experience of leaving the RN is very stale, and the route to resettlement will be different now. As a Short Career Commission Officer, resettlement was to all intents and purposes, non-existent. I won't bore you with details, but I simply couldn't book any courses due to my operational role. I did get a merchant navy qualification in the end, but that's a long tale.
As relapsed_mandalorian has said, gain qualifications where and when the opportunity arises.
If she enjoyed hgv driving how about plant or crane operator?
Or look at structural investigation companies like HTA or acess specialist stuff, or asset management roles, picture walking around scottish hillsides poking bridges with sticks and hammers. @jamiemcf, who did you work for?
I work for Inspire Structures. Hitting bridges, walls and the like then writing condition reports, all asset management .
It's a good mix of practical site work and report writing at home. Nationwide, on the ground, on the ropes, on scaffold on mewps, underground confined space work. days and nights.
We're very much
Over the years in the rope game I met a lot of ex servicemen, usually squaddies. Most were a bit traumatised.
My sister was the first woman to go to sea with the RN, as a Weapon Engineer Officer. 30 years later, my daughter is a Captain in the REME. They both have really enjoyed their time but they have had to be pretty robust and stand up to some quite primitive behaviours and attitudes, and that is as officers - it's probably harder for the other ranks. Both had/have partners in the services too, which for both of them has meant long periods of separation. My sister had to leave when she became pregnant - in those days there was no choice. My daughter can stay in, but I think she is unlikely to as it would mean living in dodgy accommodation and moving every 2 years.
As a “way to get a trade” it seems an odd choice
Why? What's an apprentice earn? 8 quid an hour? So 15k a year before tax? VS 1st year soldier on 26k + picking up a trade? There's a billion jobs in the forces - not everyone goes front line! What's the minimum you can serve. 4 years? I'd argue it was a great way to get a trade tbh.
I'd argue it was a great way to get a trade tbh.
Do you get any choice or is it the luck of the draw though?
Army jobs website is the best place to look. She could take a look at the local reserve unit depending what it is and see what it's all about.
I joined 35 years ago as an apprentice, 17th birthday and I was the oldest in my troop. Bullying was rife not only amongst other apprentices but permanent staff too. Would I have changed my experience and where I am today, no. Take a look at a book called Picking Up The Brass, fiction based on experiences of many at the time, the second book Map of Africa is hilarious too.
Job choice was decided at the Careers Office depending on an aptitude test that shows what was on offer to you, better to go with an idea first though.
I still work daily with soldiers, visiting defence establishments all over. Generally they are pretty happy but will always moan about something, it's what we do best!
Apparently recruitment is up with a big influx over the next 12 months within my old Corps but they are hitting hard with the cyber trades.
Just had a big pay rise too which always helps...
