[Closed] Working hours - whats your view?

We are currently having this discussion at work most of us don't mind doing an hour extra when needed as our job is field based . Now they want us to finish on the dot every day no ifs or buts. some times they only issue half a days work. So some days we would work over some days finish early. Now its no flexible hours and no explanation of what to do when they don't issue enough work....

Work in a long-hours culture - science. An all hours culture you might say, although sitting on your aris thinking about science is probably not everyone's idea of hard work.

Hours in the lab are a challenging issue - 9-5 is fine by me if you can produce results. I've met very few people who can do this, though - scientific breakthroughs don't come easy, you have to try as many things as you can.
Facetime is a big problem amongst the weaker students - it becomes apparent over time that someone is just going through the motions but it's hard to spot right away.

Until last year I worked in an industry where it was common practice to sign both a contract and a EU working time directive opt out when starting a new position. 60 hours a week was typical although as it was mainly commission based so the extra was kind of rewarded. I think I would have felt differently if I was putting in the extra hours and receiving the same money each month.

Last year I took a 10% pay cut for a head office based promotion and now I work monday to friday and don't work any bank holidays. Weekends now are family time and I am home in time to put my son to bed. Money spent can be earned again, time spent, cannot.

I could work my allotted hours and probably get on fine.
But I want to advance, I want to gain seniority, I want to move onto bigger things.
So I put extra hours in, take on challenges, do extra work, work outside my normal area. You can look at it like I'm brown nosing or lining someone elses pocket but ultimately I'm following a plan that I know will get me what I want.

[quote=mrmo ]If the company wants more out of me without paying me then i want something else in loo

Just take a copy of STW in to work to read when you're in there.

🙂 good point - next time they take my time for free - I want something else in the loo as well!

Let that be a rally call against the British long hours culture!

I have have worked in several large organisations and a couple of smaller ones in relatively senior roles. Additional hours were expected in all of them and I more than met the expectation. However I'm not sure I believe this is the right thing to do...
- More hours out of the same people = less jobs
- Contracts of employment become less meaningful as employers expect you to waive your rights and their responsibilities under contract but would penalise you for the same
- The flexibility gained by the employer never really comes back to the employee - the employer nearly always wins
- It's all a bit like silicon heaven in Red Dwarf. You work extra for some explicit or implicit future gain, but often the gain does not materialise for the employee
- The trend is growing and the employers perception of reasonable is getting more and more distorted in their favour

Thank God I work for myself now...

My boss at my last place was very much of the hours determine what you are doing and how good you are view and he told me as such. 12 months of killing myself before doing 70 hour weeks, 2.5 hours of expensable travel a day and other things didn't matter at all.
The fact that I was getting my work done did not matter.
Accordingly i don't work there any more and know he was the worst boss I've ever had.

My contract has hours in it but I normally do what is reasonably needed to get the job done this is also what is expected of me. in return however I expect some flexibility with my working hours.

I work as an Engineer in the construction industry.

Our contracted hours are 45/week however the contract came with the opt out of the working time directive. I, and most of us here generally do more than that, a 55/60 hour week is fairly normal.

Does it bother me? Not really.

Pay seems quite good, I enjoy the work, every day is busy and times just flies by.

I am only 26 and keen to progress so putting in the extra hours to get a good reputation and to be the best I can is fine by me.

I've had various experiences in different offices, the more commercial in nature the better actually as jobs were charged to clients and overtime was paid. The most frustrating was in a place where time at the desk was confused with productivity. After changing projects I was being fed less work, I was a contractor so took the chance to get away early some days etc. take 1/2 day fridays instead of holidays. I kept track of it and I was still doing similar hours to the regular staff. I got pulled in by my boss and his to explain why I was booking short weeks. Explained the hours and asked if I was behind with my work/projects (which I wasn't) and asked if they would rather I sat on my arse booking time doing nothing (like a number of the staff) or going home early?

People seem to get to the point where they equate hours to achievement. If your one who does contracted hours only then make sure you achieve what others do in all the extra time they spend, it's normally possible.

Just to test the waters I stuck to my hours. Nobody has mentioned a thing yet.

Adopting this kiss arse culture will only make things worse for your children when they start work.
Terms and conditions have been hard won over the years, but the current trend is just to give them away for nothing

Lots of people think they are important because their employer give them a mobile and laptop. More like they get you doing even more work on your commute when that time was once spent having a read of the paper.

Another worrying trend is people leaving the company mobile on when taking leave or even worse off sick.

Wake up and regain some dignity along with much needed leisure time

hourly rate. 40hrs minimum. usually get 45 in in 4 days and have Friday off.

I'm a sales manager and shareholder in the business, so due to commission and dividends, it could be argued I am rewarded for extra hours.

I try not to overdo it, but at the same time, my wages and livelihood are based on what I generate, rather than how many hours I do, so if extra work is needed to achieve a target, it has to be done.

I am only 26 and keen to progress so putting in the extra hours to get a good reputation and to be the best I can is fine by me.

It's definitely worth putting in the effort IME (so long as the extra time and effort will actually be rewarded and isn't seen as "normal"), I don't think I'd have managed to get my current job if I was as lazy or slow as a lot of the people I used to work with. Someone else in the company was being interviewed for the same role, they'd been there 3-4 years whilst I was just over 1 year in and I was convinced they'd go for the other guy due to this sort of thing. I think this guy might hate me now though.

Sorry to see so many people that don't like their job. I'm lucky in that I do, and I also like the people I work with and for. I'm also lucky in that my role, and the size of the company, mean that working extra hours will make a difference.

I'm not sure I would if I worked for a large company where working extra is the norm, 'because we all do it'.

Public sector so I work to my contracted 36 hours. We get time in lieu for anything over, although it has to be agreed by a manager. I live a 10 minute walk from work so have opted to do a compressed 4 day working week as I don't have a London commute anymore.
I work 4 days 8-5.30 with 30 mins for lunch but they're pushing for a culture change to encourage home and remote working so I may work from home more regularly.
It's nice having a day off in the week when the family are at work/school!

?......so due to commission and dividends, it could be argued I am rewarded for extra hours.

I try not to overdo it, but at the same time, my wages and livelihood are based on what I generate, rather than how many hours I do, so if extra work is needed to achieve a target, it has to be done.

This is pretty much where I am for the record, the difficulty is then working the extras around two young kids with school runs etc. I'm lucky to have a flexible boss and to a degree I'm in control of my own diary as long as it's aligned to the success of the work I do / team I support. I wouldn't say I work sixty hours a week and neglect my kids, but I probably work 45 hours including the odd phone call and work travel outside of core hours. I believe I've the right balance for me vs my reward package.

I'm sure if I helped close a £250k deal his morning my boss wouldn't begrudge me a slack afternoon, but also if our team was short of target he'd expect me to be balls out helping to rectify that.

It's all a balance which is both industry related and personally acceptable to you - only you can define what is acceptable and you pitch you career around that IMO.

I believe in being asked to work e extras, or being grown up enough about it to determine that myself, I don't believe in being "told" to work them. However that statement is much easier to behold when you have some career experience and much more difficult as a young employee.

Sorry to see so many people that don't like their job. I'm lucky in that I do, and I also like the people I work with and for. I'm also lucky in that my role, and the size of the company, mean that working extra hours will make a difference.

You can work your contracted hours and like your job and be good at it.

Chewkw - good luck chap, in my experience you may find you are working much harder and longer hours for smaller rewards for some time. Also, if you manage to make it work and then have to employ someone, this thread may make an interesting reference point when looking to recruit!!

We employ a small team, pay is about average, hours are flexible, we're family friendly and try hard to ensure that staff have a good work life balance. In return we expect some flexibility when needed. Seems to work well, can't see it being manageable in a large company as it's based upon mutual trust and loyalty. And, we have just appointed our first apprentice. 😀

I think the fundamental here is that if you are willing to work extra hours and put in extra effort then the rewards have to be there.

Pretty much throughout my career in various different industries I have worked more hours than i am contracted on. The reward for me is my overall compensation has probably risen on average 12% a year.

If my compensation wasn't rising accordingly with the the additional effort i was putting in then I would either not put the additional effort in or move jobs (the latter has been done on a number of occasions).

If you work your contracted hours then the best you can really expect is compensation increase at inflation.

All I have ever asked is an honest weeks wage for an honest days work.

Work at a very small company, only a couple of years old, worked my ass off the first year, got good rewards - come from being self employed / having my own company, so can see it from the other side. Me putting a massive effort in is making a very big difference to how the company is going to go over the next few years, which should see us right. I expect to get rewarded for it...I treat it like an investment. Owners look after me and the family, I feel appreciated for the efforts Ive put in.

Where as if I was at a big company then that would be very different, it all depends on who you're working for...

You can work your contracted hours and like your job and be good at it.

That's very true, but I can see the result of working longer (company does better, so I do better.)

LHS - Member

If you work your contracted hours then the best you can really expect is compensation increase at inflation.

Nonsense... But hey, believe it if you like.

You can work your contracted hours and like your job and be good at it.
That's very true, but I can see the result of working longer (company does better, so I do better.)

Which is always proportional to your position in the company - but depending on your circumstances is the value gain worth the sacrifice? Working 10 extra hours away from my kids for £20 over a week for example just wouldn't happen.

Nonsense... But hey, believe it if you like.

Not nonsense at all, someone will always be willing to put more effort in and work that much harder.

That's very true, but I can see the result of working longer (company does better, so I do better.)

The result of me working longer might be a modest increase in disposable income but at the cost of spending time with my family and doing what I want to. I chose the latter.

[quote=LHS ]Not nonsense at all, someone will always be willing to put more effort in and work that much harder.

Let's just reductio ad absurdum that...

@monsho - still going well Andy?

Results tend to matter more than the amount of hours you spend at your desk. Results are what management will notice. If they're really just tracking the hours where your bum warms your seat, they're tracking the wrong things.

Get good results quickly = no need to spend every hour in the office.

That's my take anyway.

I appreciate not everyone's job situation is the same as me, i.e. you can't knock off early in a customer service type jobs.

I work for a large american company and there has been a massive shift in attitudes to working hours over the last 5 years.

It used to be a competition to see who could be in the office first and who left last, who could send the latest email reply etc. This is now discouraged and we are urged to work hard and smart in the hours we have an leave on time. I understand there were some studies that showed this gets more out of people than longer hours. Obviously if an emergency happens then we stay and sort it out.

Slightly depends what your job is. I do a mix of office & site work - office is a default 9-5.30 day. Site is a standard 12 hr day, start and finish times anywhere on a 24 hr clock.

So far this year, we've been fairly quiet, so the office time has predominated and been pretty relaxed. However I've just been on tour - 20 hour days on site, 4 hours crap sleep in the back of a sleeper bus, repeat for a week. But it's all part of the job, and I signed up knowing that, so it's all fine (ish!). I get lieu for anything over the 12 hours which makes things a lot nicer, as I can piss off and ride my bike mid week. Cheeky trails agogo!

i also work away so dont mind cramming the hours in, i start about 10am on a monday becasue of the travel. then its 06:30 - 7pm for 3 days with friday off.

If I couldn't make a living working my contracted 40hrs a week then it's either time to get a new job or re-assess my lifestyle as far as i am concerned.

If I couldn't complete my work duties within those 40hrs a week then either I am not suitable for that role or the company has messed up with it's resourcing requirements.

If it were me that was the problem then short term I wouldn't see any issue working a bit longer to get up to speed, but not so it became the norm.

If the company has not recruited enough people to carry out the work required, then that's their problem, I am no mug. Life is too short as it is to work it all away.

I do my contracted hours. I might stay on an extra 15 oe 20 mins once every couple of weeks to get a job finished though.
I just manage my workload with my boss.

I work in a charity with payscales etc so no chance of a bonus or negotiating a pay rise. A promotion maybe.

I'm in a good position because I'm the only person in the organisation with my IT skills level. I've set up a few systems that I am the only person who can maintain. They're all documented in case I leave or die or something, but day to day they are too complicated fer anyone else to deal with the back ends.

We have redundancies coming up and I've already had a heads up I don't need to worry - my job is secure.

I work 3 days a week on a permanent, salaried contract. I'm currently doing another day and a half of a week of contracting with another charity as wifey and I are saving up for a year off travelling.

But after that I'll go back to 3 days a week. I love working part time. I've arranged my life so I have very low outgoings (no debts or cars on finance etc) so I can take it easy - go lie in the park or ride my bike.
I stumbled into part time working in my late twenties (now early 30s) and it suits me nicely!

Sure, I'll never have a three year old Audi A4 Sportline but I also have an easy-going stress free life.

I used to work long hours outside my contracted hours. When I was an analyst I was, theoretically, supposed to get overtime - but didn't because it would have been too expensive. Got a bonus of around 5-10% of salary instead. I was probably owed more than 6 or 7 times that on hours alone without taking into account any enhancement for out of hours working. Once, I actually worked something like 45 days continuously to deliver a project, when I finally got a day off I had no idea what to do with myself I was so deep in my work head. I think I spent the morning sat on the sofa in my dressing gown staring at the wall and twitching!!

When I got promoted to senior management the contract was explicit that work outside of contracted hours could be expected. I worked v long hours again but did well out of it.

The problem is that if an organisation allows long hours culture, then those that can (ie no family commitments etc) and are prepared to, will get on quicker than someone with equal skills but does their hours. For me, particularly because the directors would tend to do their thinking in the evening, so being available to answer questions was beneficial. And, because it was high profile, any media **** storm tended to hit after 6pm. This means being able to ruin your life for the organisation was a good career move - despite all the corporate BS about family friendly workplaces.

In the end I got fed up and left, now I pretty much do as little as possible. 21/2 stone lighter, blood pressure normal, hugely happier. Yesterday I was surfing, today I'm doing some light project planning then yoga. But it was flogging myself when younger that got me to the position where I have the freedom now. Right decisions - who knows?

Never worked contracted hours in my life. I guess I must be lucky to enjoy doing what I do. We want to be the best at what we do, so we do what is required to achieve that. The clock is not that relevant.

teamhurtmore - that is fine as long as you are getting rewards directly related to success of the business ie you own it or it is very fair in the distribution of rewards.
...

edit - also you seem to be implying that anyone who has a contract of employment which includes hours cannot enjoy their job?

Well yes and no. But I accept that it's not that common.

FWIW, I enjoyed living and working in France. Work less hours but more productive plus a civilised lunch. No lunch at the desk!

But pay is only one reason why I work. Having fun and personal learning and development are also important, if not more important.

Edit for the edit: not the intention of my first post!

... ps... doesn't any employee need a contract by law? and doesn't that contract have to contain something about hours even it is to waive rights under EU working times directives?

... fully agree that working for money is not the only reward. I was happy doing voluntary work - real sense of achievement

I am not sure you have to have a contract, but you may be correct.

Signed away the EU nonsense right from the start. No reason to have them tell me how long I can or cannot work.

Signed away the EU nonsense right from the start. No reason to have them tell me how long I can or cannot work.

[img] [/img]