[Closed] Work. Anyone ever taken on their boss and 'won'

Seen this loads of times.

Unless they have an ownership stake in the compny, arseholes like this always have a shelf life that expires.

They're just another employee at the end of the day and if they're causing more harm than good to the business, they'll get moved on.

Be honest but not vindictive to the new dept head.

Define "win". I made a boss cry once, he was a slimy, deceitful prick. Things got so bad that the company had no real choice but to sack him and pay me to go away. He left the country. I left the company. I took it as a win, rational people would probably term it lose-lose.

If you're going to do it, make sure you're not the only one who's saying something.

And

Be honest but not vindictive to the new dept head.

Very much this. Personally, i'm not sure it's worth the risk. If the DH is any good, they will know soon enough.

I'd echo the above. Remain professional and factual, without making it personal or just saying 'he's a knob' etc.

The whole situation depends on how big the company is. If it's a large corporate then sooner or later something will end up with HR and they will have to do something, especially if the chap concerned is proven to be a bully.

If it is a smaller family owned company, whilst they have to adhere to the same employment laws, they might require a different approach if the manager is doing a good job overall and gets on with the owners etc.

Evidence will be useful for your conversation. e.g. when we lost the ABC account, Geoff shouted at Sarah in front of the whole team and made her cry etc....

Work. Anyone ever taken on their boss and ‘won’

One of my first jobs in my early 20s I took my boss on out in the carpark and won. I don't think many places will let you get away with that now as part of a dispute resolution.

Yes, and 'Sort of'

State definable examples of how he is disrupting, if timekeeping is erratic give examples of when (he may have permission, but if not explained it 'looks' bad regardless) Bullying is hard to quantify but if the person who is the subject of it 'feels bullied' then they will be able to amplify as to why. His 'People' skills may have short comings that could be addressed by training (but probably not) however if management are aware then they can make the decision.
The 'General consensus' is good if you all express the similar thoughts, try to make the observations 'non personal' (as much as you can when complaining about someone) Examples of how it is affecting what you all do are excellent to get the point across.

In my case, the person who we 'individually' complained about was transferred to another unit (not ideal as the other unit then had to deal with him, ideally he should have been invited to leave.) Had we had a 'collective' complaint it would have been classed as mutinous.

I think the key is to state 'fact' and 'observations' without making it personal.

Good luck.

Yes I've challenged some bosses before and won but not always.

One of my first jobs in my early 20s I took my boss on out in the carpark and won. I don’t think many places will let you get away with that now as part of a dispute resolution.

Was it a competition to see who can be the most edgy?

Haven't you got some grievance or whistleblowing procedure with protection that would make sure such an individual is dealt with promptly? I wouldn't work in a business that tolerates this more than a few days.

Yes.
My first child was due imminently and it had been agreed months beforehand that I would keep some holidays back and take 6 days paternity leave as holiday (otherwise I'd have been down on pay). 2 days before my other half was due to be induced my boss advised me that I couldn't take the full 6 days as the dept was short staffed by nearly 50% due to staff leaving, so I could take 3 days and then another 3 days later on. I was not happy about this and she suggested that we have a meeting with HR on the day of my OH's inducement. Again this was not acceptable, so I went to the MD and asked if I could have a chat with him ASAP. Explained that whilst understanding of the team's situation, I was not prepared to compromise on this time, as it was the birth of my first child and I was not prepared to give up this time (any other time I would). He understood and agreed to the original leave agreement.
My boss was not happy that I had gone over her head, but I wasn't prepared to piss about. She never really got over it and made my life difficult for a number of years. She tried to give me a formal reprimand after openly mocking her in front of the team (mainly because I no longer cared), but when she realised she hadn't followed the correct process had to withdraw the repriment. I left after 2 years and later heard that following a change of senior management that she was placed on gardening leave and then "let go". My only regret is not seeing it happen.

Yes, kinda.

Although it wasn't anything personal I just didn't seem to be getting on with the principal engineer on a project, we had worked together before fine but it just wasn't working this time. He mentioned something to my boss about my work, so I had to go in for a chat. I just gave my honest opinion, that it wasn't IMO his or my fault but things had broken down and we'd reached a point where no work I did was ever going to pass without criticism (I could demonstrate that my work wasn't bad it was just a lot more complicated than he had budgeted for).

Big company though so we both went off to work on different projects and no further issues. So it depends, I'd be less candid if I had to continue working with them afterwards!

Couple of examples here - new boss came in and tried to reduce our money as it had been agreed by previous boss that shift allowance would become part of salary when the shifts stopped. The manager was a bully (he thought his Glaswegian accent intimidated us southerners for some reason) and tried to steam roller over us - I took it to HR and he didn't win. You could see the frustration in his scrawny little face. I think he was a little scared of me, but of course, I wasn't as 'ard as croe. 😆

In a previous role our team got taken over by an incompetent, strange man - no personnel skills, got where he was as a manager of a couple of people by being there the longest. Then he was put in charge of a big team of fairly bright people (and me) and his failings all came to the surface.. another manager was brought in above him, and a couple of team members took it upon themselves to oust the weird bloke by taking it to the new boss... it worked and he was gone within 6 months.

I've also had a failure or 2! Same company as above, but by then bigger and they really ****ed me about. I tried to stop it, but got nowhere. Eventually was made redundant anyway. So whatevs.

Hob Nob
If you’re going to do it, make sure you’re not the only one who’s saying something.

My partner is currently in this situation, her 'colleagues' asked her to take their complaints forwards, & then wouldn't say boo in the same meeting, to back her up. She believes they came away with a good opportunity to improve their situation, as a meeting with their big boss arranged. She has then asked for ideas to go forward with, has she heard from any of them? Has she bollox, bunch of cowards, who were happy for her to take the risk but won't back her up.

Must add - the stress involved in taking on a boss, is something that can't be underestimated. Weigh that up with whether it's worth it in the end.

I had a disagreement with a boss, when I moved departments from engineering into a production spot, but as I'm an engineering man sort of seconded to production, my line managers are production, but engineering have a say.

The disagreement started when I took the new roll on and he had an idea for training, which I the trainee, and the trainer's were not happy with. I was the one that took it to him to try to change his mind, bearing in mind all lead hands and middle managers agreed with me/trainer. The upper management weren't happy. And after a rather heated debate, he ended up storming off site and a year later I've not seen him.

I've requested several meetings with the man to try to iron out a few issues with my current roll, but I always end up with a maint planner or middle manager that know the previous issues and he will not come see me.

In short, I took him on and not sure who won, I know I earn more than him and work less than him, but I'm more stressed as the problems seems to get lost in translation through his layers of defence he put up

The workplace bullying would be sufficient incentive for me. I have zero tolerance for that sort of shit and would be having a quiet word with either the nob in question or HR without passing Go or collecting $200. I've suffered it in the past at previous workplaces and it made me ill, now older and grumpier I'd rather risk a P45 than tolerate that again.

As others have said, get your facts straight. Going "he / she is a bully" won't cut the mustard, you'll need specific examples of when and how their behaviour was inappropriate. Nail the bastard to the mast.

Yes - bully of a boss when I had a sales role, trying to make a name for himself. All days off cancelled till targets were not. I could leave if I didn't like it.

Walked out, went home and checked with the wife we could afford for me to quit, wrote my resignation letter, went back in and handed it to the overall boss. Bully called in to the office, told to tone it down and stop being a dick, I agreed to withdraw my resignation, all sorted. He got moved shortly afterwards to a different area

I suspect they were worried that if I walked, the rest of the team would have walked as well.

that's heartening MCTD. Obviously in a fortunate position the be able to make that walk, but low key without dramas, full of explanation, is the way to do it. The fact that you've written that letter gives you a sense of purpose I think.

I nearly left I job I grew to hate and had made me unhappy. Was then made redundant anyway.

Currently taking on my whole management tier, they've broken black & white policy, i've gone down the grievance / whistle blowing route, I've no union representative, they've a whole heap of experience in this field, between the management & HRs ability to bury their heads in the sand, ignore fact, and investigate it all in such a way to conclude "no problem here", I'll probably end up just handing in my notice & walk away. I'm making a big noise in my world, I'm just a wisp of a smelly fart in theirs that'll eventually go away. Hey ho.

Watching this with interest...

Sounds a bit like one of my bosses. He gets aggressive if challenged, but I wouldn't have his job anyway. I ignore him as best as possible, and even take his shitty emails not too seriously.

We recently fought back about being told we had to re-apply for our jobs as our JD was about 15 years out of date. We won, and were given an upgrade (not until loads of stress) and, we have all been promised an additional member of staff to help us - wasn't expecting that.

Had a boss years ago who was arrogant, rude and had zero people skills. A few of us made a pact to make his life utterly miserable whilst not breaking any company policy. This was also in the textile industry, so a lot of older men best described as characters were involved.

I came in one morning to be greeted by a coworker with a massive grin on his face. When I asked why he was so happy he just pointed at the managers office. The guy was sat, head in hands, pretty much crying. I felt zero sympathy for the ****er. He got moved to the IT department and we ended up with a knowledgeable ship floor guy getting promoted. He was hands down the best boss I’ve ever had.

Yes, my old boss, after a TUPE he tried rolling back some of my T's & C's.  I'd been warned he might try this so at our 1to1 I accused him of trying to "**** me over" and he back pedalled rapidly.  Later he tried to get me to sign off safety maintenance that had gone into backlog without doing it until I asked for an email asking me to do it rather than verbal.

Then he started tying to pick up my work as substandard so I adhered to the letter of the maintenance standards (which were rubbish) and because I could prove I was doing it by the book and had time stamps from entry and exit of sites he crumbled, especially after I started generating extra tasks because I was religiously following the standards and finding pointless faults and I trebled the depots outstanding work/backlog in a month.

After we'd come to an accommodation (I'd work my way/efficiently and pointed out it made him look good on the stats he would let me organise myself) we got on OK and he was positively helpful in corporate interview techniques for getting a sideways/promotion. 😁

Having worked as a self employed relief chef for many years which put me in a position of power as most places will get a relief chef only when desperate . One of the best was when I was doing relief work at a large hotel on the Isle of Man when I had not lived here for very long and the place had been taken over and there was a new manager who was a complete bastard . One day I was preparing fruit salad in the afternoon for an evening wedding and as one of the waitresses had nothing to do I had her helping me . Anyway the manager walked into the kitchen and said , rather loudly " are you qualified to give that girl instruction at making fruit salad ? " My reply was " I think so , I've got my D32 NVQ assessor certificate and I lecture 1 day a week at the Isle of Man College " . He stormed off into the walk in fridge which was in a back room and bellowed " chef come here " which I ignored as I'm not a dog . He came out " didn't you hear me ?" yes I said , half the hotel must have heard you . " That fridge is not clean and wouldn't pass the English Environmental health exam " he shouted . I replied that it probably wouldn't pass the Bulgarian EHO exam nor the Indian One but guess what it passes the Isle of Man standard and that's all it has to do . He went away in a huff and the company ran the hotel into the ground , literally as it was knocked down and replaced with flats . The moral of the story don't pick an argument with somebody who doesn't care .

Anyway the manager walked into the kitchen and said , rather loudly ” are you qualified to give that girl instruction at making fruit salad ? ” My reply was ” I think so , I’ve got my D32 NVQ assessor certificate and I lecture 1 day a week at the Isle of Man College ”

Didn't even know this was a thing in the cheffing industry really.

I worked in the indsutry for a bit when I was at university, no one gave a **** about college - whilst a family memeber of mine worked up to head chef after doing years in michelin star places without ever having been to college.

I got away with calling the nasty piece of work of a front of hosue manager a "fat lying ****" once as my head chefs response when he complained about it was "well, that is because you are".

I miss working in kitchens 🙂 chefs were like zoo animals, but you were all in the hilarity together unless you were crap.

In an old job, my colleagues decided to hold an intervention for our boss. It was mediated by a 3rd party and supported by the SVP for the area. My boss was aggressive and defensive during the sessions but publicly declared it a success. Everybody from that team either quit or requested a transfer with 12 months. He has since been given a sideways move, as the SVP thinks he has good potential. Overall, my old boss won. He is the last one remaining there.

I quit my previous role because of the boss. She was on the same trend to becoming awful. However, she had the backing of the plant manager who couldn't afford for another managerial hire to quit. I was fortunate to secure interviews quickly and got out. I handed in my notice and left within a week.

My experience tells that management will change behaviour only if their manager demands it.

I have over some issues - working in the NHS

I did however lose on the bullying manager although I didn't push it to the max which I regret.

I remembered another one! From an earlier iteration of the team who got rid of the weird boss in my previous post - once us 4 team members had been assembled (all bright people (+me)) they employed a manager for us. This fella came in, best way to describe him was a wide-boy. Had zero clue about IT, though he professed to be fully qualified in all the stuff we were doing. Zero people skills - once had us all in an office shouting and swearing at us until I said I wasn't putting up with it and left. I think his head exploded in a Scanners fashion at that point. Anyway, he was a liability and we just pushed and pushed the boss above, who employed him, until he was gone.
Quite satisfying and stress free that one.

Document interactions - date, time, place, who was present what was said. You need specific examples of behaviour. Remain unemotional but emphasise how much impact the behaviour is having on you.

Good luck

Sounds like I had the OP's boss in a previous role.

An unbelievable bully.

I had a go at trying to oust him.

I failed.

A few months later I got made redundant based on his recommendation 🙄

I had a colleague in a previous company who I was working with on a project. He was sent to this project to get him out the way of his boss who hated him and made his life a misery. To be fair, the chap wasn't great at his job but he was a nice guy and very much a personality clash rather than him being woeful.

Anyhoo, his boss hadn't followed the proper performance management process. The guy broke down. HR got involved. Boss sacked double quick - he was a long standing and senior company employee. Junior guy left the company as well, although I'd hazard a guess with a nice compromise agreement.

The key message from this is:
- If you're going to accuse someone of being shit follow the procedures and hope that they don't.

It depends on the HR policy of your employer I guess. Smaller firms tend to let people get away with all sorts of bad behavior, larger organisations have the resource to nip it in the bud.

I once shared an office with a bloke who was an out and out bully, he liked to play mind games with people and went out of his way to harass his target victim until either they flipped and threatened him physically or they simply up and left the business. He decided one day that a colleague was gay and went all out with homophobic comments and false accusations of poor performance, the campaign was relentless, small misdemeanors were amplified and spread around the organisation and in once instance a confidential document with a small typo was "accidentally" shown to everyone, sneering comments about the chap's choice of clothing were an every day occurrence until the victim found another job and walked.

The firm's partners didn't take the matter seriously and sat on their hands until the boss in question was silly enough to accidentally copy a senior colleague into an email he sent to half of the workforce where he went into lurid speculation about my private life (my marriage was ending at the time). I made a complaint to a senior partner and hinted that I'd take the matter to a tribunal unless it was sorted, the guy received a bollocking and apparently a written warning but the gist of it was "be more careful not to get caught in future" not "you need to alter your behavior or else".

I guess that I won. I moved jobs, found a better employer and got on with my life. I've no idea what happened to the boss in question, I have a good mate who'd worked with this bloke in a former job and he told me that the guy had previous form and had apparently been sacked for bullying and harassment, he was just lucky enough to find an employer where the senior management were not prepared to discipline him.

I was once in a situation where I asked for a pay rise and got it. Sounds good, right? But then three months later the boss fired me for dubious reasons and hired someone willing to work for less. I later found out through a colleague that the boss started searching for my replacement as soon as he raised my salary. He just didn't want an employment gap in the meantime. I couldn't prove it though, and that made me crazy. I held on to the bitterness for about six months...until said boss was arrested for sexual misconduct. His business soon folded and I felt vindicated, even if it wasn't my direct intervention.