many of the World's foremost academic institutions were founded by religious organisations
Yeah? Like what?
I'm thinking of Gallileo, the Spanish Inquisition, that kind of thing.
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I'm gonna need more than that I'm afraid.
Like, an actual academic establishment founded by a religious organisation. That is, a church or similar, not by an organisation run by religious people since everyone had to be religious in them days.
Well go and look for it then. Go on, you might learn something, through your own investigations.
"[i]Would we be at this stage of Scientific Understanding if it weren't for Religion?[/i]"
No.
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Oh, look, a completely Eurocentric graph that completely ignores most of the Rest Of The World, created by an atheist organisation, cos, like, that's objective... 🙄
Well go and look for it then.
I might do. It just sounded like you actually knew some yourself 🙂
Go on, you might learn something, through your own investigations
Lol - you're talking to someone who often spends half his day, literally, learning things from Wikipedia 🙂 That's why I know so much 🙂
MTQ that is a stupid graph. And the title alone suggests that Christianity was the ONLY force suppressing Western society, which it clearly wasn't. Plus the Roman Empire was Christian for quite a while before the Dark Ages. Plus again, British Saxon society was actually pretty enlightened by the standards of the time and later. Etc.
Ironic really that you are posting a graph about understanding, without really understanding the issues 🙂
Mol; I'm not denying that Religion has at times proved a hindrance to Scientific Progress, but the role Religion played in the development of Science, Worldwide, is hugely significant and cannot be ignored.
[url= http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_inventions_in_medieval_Islam ]Islam seems to have proven to be quite productive.[/url]
to the OP -
[i]Now, whenever I see or think about this stuff it gives me a brief, fleeting sense of perspective on any minor work or other of life's worries.
The trick, it seems to me, is to find a way of always being aware of that sense of perspective all the time.[/i]
Without wishing to start a whole new argument about religion etc 🙂 the trick of always being aware rather than getting carried away with life's worries etc. can be partially met by meditation, specifically mindfulness meditation. Very much tied in with Buddhism but no need to be Buddhist to do it. Might be worth a look.
Elf.. hmm yes.. but it could have cancelled itself out. It's impossible to separate the contribution of the Church from other factors though because the Church was such a huge part of everyday life and was often controlled by various rulers or at least coerced.
On the one hand you've got monks beavering away in their studies discovering stuff, and on the other you've got the establishment hunting down heretics and burning them.
As I said, mediaeval Islam was on fine scientific form, and seems to me to be the only really successful period of religiously sponsored scientific achievement.
Brief hijack - Mancjon, I've been curious about mindfulness for a while. But most of the stuff I've seen about it has been either too new agey or religious in tone to resonate with me. Could you recommend a book or a website to learn more about it? Thanks. Hijack ends.
When your brain starts to feel like it's turning itself inside out, take a break...
I do, regularly. It's my coping mechanism.
Are we doing pictures? Cool.
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[i]Could you recommend a book or a website to learn more about it? Thanks.[/i]
Read a few books and to be honest, although i'm not normally a fan, the "Meditation for Dummies" is probably the one that concentrates more on meditation and a lot less on the religious side. The others i have do go into a lot of the Buddhist theory as well which isn't necessarily a bad thing but can understandably put some people off.
To be honest, at it's most simple -
1) sit down, preferably on the floor but if you can't do that, a chair is fine.
2) simply follow your breath in and out and concentrate on the area within your body where it is most noticeable eg. your abdomen, chest, nostrils etc.
3) every time your mind wanders, and believe me it will !, simply go back to following your breath.
4) When your mind does wander you can make a mental note of where it has wandered to but simply note it, don't get involved in thinking about it and then go back to the breath.
Key thing is you are not thinking about your breath, or visualising it, you are simply aware of the feeling of the breath as it goes in and out.
If you have difficulty concentrating on the breath then you can use counting to count the inbreath and then the outbreath up to 10 and then start again.
A lot of the rest of the books etc. are about how to sit, how to deal with difficulties that may arise such as boredom, restlessness, emotions etc. but the above is the basic practice.
Sit for a specified time (use an alarm) and then gradually you will find you can increase it.
Hardest parts -
1) keeping your mind on the breath (obviously !!)
2) sitting still for 15/20/30 minutes as it takes a bit of getting used to.
Once you are comfortable with the above and if you decide you like it you can then start expanding practice by becoming more aware of sensations and your thoughts without simply returning to the breath immediately. It may then be time to get a good book !!
Hope the above helped and it wasn't too new agey for you 🙂
When I played with my bucket and spade on the sands at Bridlington I can honestly say I didn't give entropy a single thought. I was more interested in donkey rides. Still am.
I sort of did think about entropy, although I didn't know it at the time.
I used to build sandcastles and watch them weather away to look like the ruined real ones.
Then I'd dig a huge trench and watch as the walls dried out in the sun and they eroded to look like the Grand Canyon. You got different results depending on the beach - variations in sand type and stratigraphy.
Perhaps Fred could pass on some of the new knowledge that he has gained by his skillful blending of the rational and the irrational?
Hey Mol, you were some kid! Respect dude. Whilst you were meditating on your sand constructions morphing and disintegrating along the time arrow I was bouncing along it enjoying a sixpenny donkey ride. Whooo! giddyup Neddy.
Anyway, if all the lights finally go out in 30 trillion, trillion, billion, million, years and we spend such an insignificant tick-tock of time on this grain of sand we call earth, then what's the rush? Ride more slowly along that time arrow and glory in the Natural World around us. It won't be there forever. Perhaps we should think about that next time we spend an extra £50 shaving 25gms off a pair of pedals.
Hey Mol, you were some kid! Respect dude.
Lol it had its drawbacks 🙂
Ride more slowly along that time arrow and glory in the Natural World around us
That's true. You can make time run more slowly by doing lots of different stuff with your life. Pack as many new things as you can in, and you'll live 'longer'.
[b]@ mancjon[/b] - many thanks for that. Am also not a great fan, but actually have the "Dummies" book on order - but only because it looked the most straightforward for a noob. (Ideally, I'd like a Haynes manual for the mind 😉 ) Feel better about my purchase now. Cheers, much appreciated 😀