I think Hogg has played fly half but only at club level and not in the last couple of years.
I really thought that Laidlaw had a good chance, especially with all the talk of not having players who weren't available for the whole tour and only having two stand offs.
The Lions have placed emphasis on all players being available from the off, and therefore I presume would want to minimise future call ups as much as possible, which i don't think they have at number ten.
I'll reserve judgement until I see the test 15. Then I'll decide whether to go out and buy an Aus shirt 😛
I wouldn't blame the scots for feeling very hard done by considering they did considerably better than Ireland in the 6N. Gray and Stevens are really crap picks, and the first Irishman who should be nailed on above all others would be Rory Best. Can't believe Robshaw didn't make it, looking at his performance during the 6N; two MOM performances and often the difference between the teams it's a bit of a disgrace IMHO.
Just realised Best didn't make it 😯 I'd have had him ahead of all three of those that are going!
Who's gonna be the midweek captain out of that lot then? Kiwi mentalist for me 8)
Tom B - Member
Who's gonna be the midweek captain out of that lot then? Kiwi mentalist for me
Jings fella,the sun is barely over the yard arm.
I think some of the English front row are there for mid week angry faces. Wouldn't want the Welsh boys injured in the run up to the tests 😀
Also, Gatland's mentaility seems be the same as Clarkson..... POOOOWWWWEEEEEERRRRR! Aus are very agile, quick and have good rugby brains so I hope this is not the Lions undoing. Ironically the Lions can pick quite a mobile, dynamic pack capable of plenty of disruption at the breakdown but have a backline much like a back row 😯
Maitland, Hogg and 1/2p could balance this out though I suppose. Some nice options to have 😀
No Best and Matt Stevens in are very odd, I'd have Robshaw over Croft. Gray is a punt but at his best he's a very good player, Matt Stevens at is best is still not that great. Still he'll be happy to be dirtracker fodder I suppose. Only 2 10's was as he predicted 3 would have left people undercooked come the first test if all were to get a chance. If one breaks they can just fly out another, Wilko might be a good option there as an experienced pro.
Cant believe Gav didnt get a call up 😉
Also, Gatland's mentaility seems be the same as Clarkson..... POOOOWWWWEEEEEERRRRR
been saying that for ages, if in any doubt he'll pick the biggest player possible.
So:
1/2p
Bowe
Abu Manu Samoa Hamzar
Abu Jamie Hamzar
North
Sexton
Phillips
Faletau
Warburton
Lydiate
POC
AW Jones
Adam
Hartley
Healey
Seems like a lot of selections were based on reputation rather than form to me.
so wrecker who would you have selected different, Gatland has a lot of form on deciding who his talented players are and picking them. See Gethin and Lydiate at the world cup he was also very keen on giving Gav every chance. Lydiate over Robshaw clearly isnt form based its based on who is the better player. Much as I dislike Hartley I think Englands desire to pick on form and keep people in the side meant Englands best 2 option was on the bench. Hartley's arrows are good and he's got power that Best and Youngs lack and like Hibbard (whose arrows are not as good) he's a very strong scrummaging option. I think a few like Ian Evans, Stevens, Vunipola, Cuthbert will just be delighted to go and wont get the hump when not picked for the tests.
nice to see lots of Welsh but imo warburton should not be captain, BOD should have been given the job.
jamie roberts, lucky again!
nice to jonathan davies, could be star of the tour.
need to ring sky tonight sort out the sports!
I think there might be an Irish rapier instead of a bludgeon in the centres and if injury and Sale free Gray sees a chance to get in t shop window,he may realise how jammy he is to be on the plane and play to his huge potential. Are both POC and AWJ not getting a bit fragile? My one concern about that back row is that while they are best we can do on paper, I felt they weren't a great blend in the 6n.
Roberts lucky, Robshaw robbed?
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Swap Healey for Gethin and that'd be my starting 15 a_a. Can't see myself really getting behind that team tbh.
bloody BBC wilkinson not picked is above warburton chosen as captain in the news, **** me!!
You've posted those vids already, but failed to mention that robshaw put in the 2nd most tackles in the 6N (behind dusautoir) which considering England won all but one game is pretty good going. Robshaw is a better 6 than he is a 7, but still better than Lydiate at either (obviously Gats disagrees). I wouldn't have taken POC, Heaslip or Gray (obv not stevens either). Roberts is lucky that the home nations aren't exactly brimming with talent in the centre. Wouldn't have taken T Youngs either.
Bless can we see all the toys out of the pram from the englanders not just Tom B. Wrecker Lydiate is a much better 6 than Robshaw. You need to open your other eye!!
roberts had a good game against england, but he's not consistent, as above he's been lucky as thin on the ground with choice.,
hook should have gone aswell.
it's all good anyway, lets all enjoy it people! thank **** for sky+
It's not entirely unexpected. The welsh national manager picks mainly welsh players shocker. We all remember welsh dummys being spat when CW was in charge; he did the same thing which, from memory didn't end well.....
Wrecker Lydiate is a much better 6 than Robshaw.
Our opinions won't change so there is really no point squabbling.
No toys out of the pram here a_a....I disagree that Lydiate is better than Robshaw-they are both excellent players. Given the Welsh dominance, they were always going to have a lot of players in the squad.....I'm amazed at how many Irish there are though given that they are were awful in the 6n's....and their most consistent player wasn't even picked!!
sky are doing sport half price £10.50 for 3 months, log on then go to sky chat and haggle for it.
and didnt he do a great job of managing the Lions.CW was in charge
I thought Robshaw got damaged recently.
The boys that are going will have played a lot of rugby this year, I hope they get a decent rest before next season starts
I'm amazed at how many Irish there are though given that they are were awful in the 6n's....and their most consistent player wasn't even picked!!
Tom a lot of the Irish selected were not available for all or large parts of the 6N. I feel for Rory Best but his throwing is just not good enough for a test hooker. Although that suffered due to POC's absence in the 6N.
and didnt he do a great job of managing the Lions.
Neither has Gatland yet!
35 points for me, any better than that. I even got all the back row selections right. Woo Hoo me!
25pts and an Edinburgh Season ticket...why do i follow rugby clearly know nothing about it
his throwing is just not good enough for a test hooker.
And it's still better than Tom Youngs!
Thats possibly true. Rory suffered because Ryan was calling the lineouts in POCs absence and that really didn't go well.
http://www.espnscrum.com/lions-tour-2013/rugby/story/181705.html
http://www.walesonline.co.uk/sport/rugby/rugby-news/warren-gatland-reveals-jonny-wilkinson-3308341
St Jonny was apparently offered a spot. Turned it down due to Toulon stuffs and worries over injury. Invitation left open though!
I doubt anyone could handle a Lions tour as badly as CW did. Wrecker I am suprised at you not being able to see that.
Excited.
but could be more.
As aa says, a very "Gatland" selection. Predictable.
But it's a bit worrying when your most nimble back is the 34 yr old , four tour vet.
Distinct lack of plan B, or any other creativity in the backs.
It's gonna be Welsh-style bosh, bosh , bosh - and how long's that losing streak against the Oz now. Maybe he's hoping to surprise them with the "Can't possibly try that trick again, routine"?
For me, the worst exclusions are ones like Zebo or Madigan or even Care for that bit of spark that might be needed to change a game. The only creativity, apart from BOD of course, is in the back up 15s Hogg and Kearney.
But he's already said 1/2pee's his test-kicker, hence only needs 2 10s, so that's borked too .
At least there's a couple of forwards who can carry. Wasn't Tip's Wales most creative back this year?
He knows what he likes and he likes what he knows. But 15 welsh?
He must be trying to avoid injury withdrawals from the players involved in end of season finals.
Will Greenwood's take on it
The Irish will be cross no Best, The Scots no Brown, The English no Wilkinson or Robshaw, The Welsh that the entire 37 man party isn't Welsh
All those snippets above indicate to me is the Lions approached Wilko to see if he was available for selection from day 1 of Tour, not that he would have necessarily been picked. Or was he somehow any different to the other players, knowing he was going to be picked before the anouncement?
Best, robshaw and grant should go everyone else,fine. Just glad the other big Scottish 2nd row isn't going got to be the worst player in 6 nations.
Wrecker I am suprised at you not being able to see that.
Whoa. Checkfire!
I haven't said any different, CW showed how badly it could be done but there's no saying that it can't be replicated. Certainly, CW has higher coaching credentials than gats so spectacular failure isn't impossible.
Appreciate I'm late to the party - how did Tom Youngs and Matt Stevens get in?
Blimey....
Relishing Parling and O'connel as pair though, O'connells passion will rub off on parling in a positive way I feel.
Moreover, Telfer was the worst lions coach in recent memory.
mefty - Member
Will Greenwood's take on itThe Irish will be cross no Best, The Scots no Brown, The English no Wilkinson or Robshaw, AA that the entire 37 man party isn't Welsh
FTFY 😉
Wrecker, Telfer mis-managed the forwards when the Lions outfoxed the Boks massive front row to their only series win in err, "recent memory" If you are counting the 83 tour, look at the tourists,squad would suggest it wasn't an especially glorious time for NH rugby.
CW has higher coaching credentials
nope, good if not great (a bit of sick just came out) manager.... shit, well not shit but a less good coach. England started winning when he stopped coaching.
Damn ofsted eating into my bickering time
Damn ofsted eating into my bickering time
Don't they [i]understand[/i]?
The Irish will be cross no Best, The Scots no Brown, The English no Wilkinson or Robshaw, AA that the entire 37 man party isn't [s]Welsh[/s] Y Gav
FTFY again!
6 players in from my team so I'm a happy Englishman
Tom Croft is a much better try scorer than Robshaw, though I do rate Robshaws tackling
I feel your pain A-A,we had HMiE during the 6N,Gits.
Tom Croft is a much better [s]try scorer[/s] at faffing about on the wing avoiding work than Robshaw,
though I do rate Robshaws tackling
for wrecker 😆
Go high
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no go low
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argh **** it!!
Actually, just wtf is that shitty thug Hartley doing on the tour?
The same could be asked of Healy......
Both Healey and Hartley are very good players. The real wtf is Stevens. Still at least Gashton isnt going!
I still can't believe that Tom Varndell hasn't been called up-ten times the player that Cuthbert is.
Or Wade?
We should have a sweepstake on how long Stevens manages to stay on the field on his first game.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/rugby-union/22372745
The team that plays against the Barbarians will probably be the best prepared," said Gatland."It will probably have a lot of Welsh players who are not involved in semi-finals and finals, who have been to most of the camps we have had.
[b][u]We[/u] [/b] have not had any camps. The ones' [b][u]you[/u][/b] have had are only Welsh camps. Will Dan Biggar be there too, [i]just in case?
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Selfish twunt is trying to use it as a Wales World Cup warm up tour. Who [b]have[/b] Wales got in their WC group?
Gatland's (almost) broke the British Lions.
Should be sacked before the tour leaves and get someone decent in. It's not too late. 😉
Anyway, this should be of interest in helping plan your 2015 autumns.
I'm actually starting to see some positives in moving to Essex last year. I get the chance to see the Ireland-Italy WC game again, but this time I can be home in an hour. 🙂
As this is the "all inclusive" rugby thread... How about that for a finish!
I've a horrible feeling that this Lions team is the somethingion of at least English if not northern hemisphere rugby at the moment - aka "defend to the death".
Australia will win with clever play, and the critics will be out telling us we all have 3 years to find some attacking players to put into our internationals squads and get some flair. Echo's of "Where's Varndell, Wheres Wade?" will ring around sky sports after the first international, you'll see.
Hook playing for the Barbarians as well is it Wales A v Wales B?
Sky have picked up the Rabo12 for 4 years from the 2014/15 season only 30 live matches a season but good for the league i would hope.
We have not had any camps. The ones' you have had are only Welsh camps.
Readings not a stength then? Mind you the bloke who wrote sounds welsh so the frothing most likely stopped you
The squad gets a lot of stick for not being attacking yet the forwards are largely selected for getting quick ball at the breakdown/ turnovers (ideal attacking scenario in the international game with such structured defenses) and J. Davies/ BOD/ Hogg/ Maitland/ 1/2p are pretty intelligent creative guys (perhaps with limited opportunity to demonstrate it this season) to back up the battering rams of Roberts/ North etc. The squad has the potential for any number of approaches... it just up to Warren POOOOWWWWEEEERRRR Gatland 😀
It will probably have a lot of Welsh players who are not involved in semi-finals and finals, who have been to most of the camps we have had.
Direct quote from Gatland, using the past tense.
I read fine. If their's a communication issue, then it's his and not mine.
Seems clear enough to me, but I guess he could do with his own spin dr for the tour, does anyone have Alistair Campbells number?
Lions coach Warren Gatland says his team for the first tour game against the Barbarians in Hong Kong is likely to be dominated by Welshmen.At least 11 of the 15 Wales players selected in the squad are likely to be available for both pre-tour training camps to be held in the coming weeks.
But Lions in the Premiership or Pro12 finals will miss at least one camp.
"The team that plays against the Barbarians will probably be the best prepared," said Gatland.
Countdown to Lions tour
•3-4 May: Final round of Premiership and Pro 12
•10-12 May: Premiership and pro 12 semi-finals
•14-17 May: Lions training camp in Wales
•17 & 18 May: Amlin Challenge Cup & Heineken Cup finals
•20-24 May: Lions training camp in Dublin
•25 May: Premiership and Pro 12 finals, Top 14 semis
•27 May: Lions fly to Hong Kong"It will probably have a lot of Welsh players who are not involved in semi-finals and finals, who have been to most of the camps we have had.
"Some of those not involved in club matches are probably going to be a bit more prepared than others and the guys coming in later are going to be at a bit of a disadvantage in terms of getting up to speed."
The Lions will hold two training camps, the first at Wales' Vale of Glamorgan base from 14-17 May, and the second in Dublin from 20-24 May, before leaving for Australia on 27 May.
With Premiership and Pro12 semi-finals taking place over the weekend of 11-12 May, and then a week's break before the domestic finals on 25 May, it is hoped as many of the squad as possible will be allowed to attend the first camp.
But the six-strong Leinster contingent will be preparing for the Amlin Challenge Cup final against Biarritz on Friday, 17 May.
And players involved in domestic finals on 25 May will miss the second training camp, which is likely to feature more specific rugby preparation following the initial gathering in Wales.
As things stand, four players from Cardiff Blues - Leigh Halfpenny, Alex Cuthbert, Jamie Roberts and Lions captain Sam Warburton - plus Dragons duo Dan Lydiate and Toby Faletau and Munster's Paul O'Connell and Conor Murray will finish their domestic seasons this weekend.
Unless the Ospreys, who visit Leinster on Friday in the final match of the regular Pro12 season, can leapfrog the Scarlets, who are four points ahead and host Treviso, for the final play-off spot, then the five-strong Ospreys contingent will also be free to attend both camps.
Bayonne's Mike Phillips should also be available, unless his side sneak into the Top 14 play-off spots this weekend, as will Sale lock Richie Gray, but Gethin Jenkins will be preparing for the Heineken Cup on 18 May with Toulon.
Glasgow duo Stuart Hogg and Sean Maitland, Ulster's Tommy Bowe, Scarlets pair George North and Jonathan Davies and Northampton's Dylan Hartley are among those set to be involved in domestic semi-finals, and potentially finals.
Although selection for the first game in Hong Kong will be hampered by the amount of preparation some players have had, Gatland insists all of the squad will get a fair chance to stake a claim.
"All of us might have an idea in mind of what the Test side might look at the moment, but I am sure when that first Test comes around it will be different," he added.
"They are all going to get a start in the first three games and have a chance to put their case."
Thought this was quite intresting
John Connolly, the former Australia coach, said this week that he feared the outcome of the series between the Lions and the Wallabies would be decided by the way the referees for the three Tests – Chris Pollock, Craig Joubert and Romain Poite – interpreted the scrum and breakdown.The International Rugby Board's match analysis on this year's Six Nations showed how the scrum has become a means to win a penalty or a free-kick rather than a launchpad for an attack, particularly for Wales and England.
The two countries provide eight of the nine front-row forwards for the Lions. They each received the ball from 13 scrums in the Six Nations, fewer than three a match, but Wales were awarded 20 penalties/free-kicks from the set-piece and England 17.
Neither side scored a try from a scrum. In contrast, Australia and New Zealand used the ball from two out of every three scrums they had in the 2012 Rugby Championship, scoring seven tries between them. With the Lions going for sustained power up front – Mako Vunipola and Dylan Hartley were chosen precisely because they have been rare starters for England this year, making an impact off the bench – they have the resources to keep Australia's scrum under the pump for a whole match.
Just as Leicester have worn down opponents in recent years by taking off Dan Cole and bringing on Martin Castrogiovanni at tight-head prop, the Lions have Adam Jones and Cole. There will be no let-up and, as Connolly noted, Australia have weaker and fewer front-row resources.
They will look to disrupt and are use to the New Zealander Pollock – who last refereed a match involving one of the home unions last June when Wales lost to Australia in Melbourne after conceding a penalty in the final minute – through the Super 15. Some superior scrums have been neutralised by early engagement free-kicks and scrum-halves delaying the put-in, but if the series is level going into the final Test, the Lions will be the happier of the two sides to have Poite in charge.
The breakdown is another key area and Wales and England supply five of the seven back rowers. The Six Nations match analysis found that 74% of the penalties awarded in the tournament came at the breakdown (43%) and the scrum (31%). Get on the right side of the referee in those areas, as Wales did against England in Cardiff in the final round of the championship, and you are on your way to victory.
The decision of the Lions head coach Warren Gatland to appoint Sam Warburton as captain was not universally popular. The two have a strong relationship with Wales with Warburton elevated to the captaincy there as a 22-year-old in 2011 when he had not long supplanted Martyn Williams on the open-side.
Warburton has led Wales against Australia six times and has yet to savour victory against the Wallabies. He only led Wales once in the Six Nations, preferring to be among the rank and file after regaining his place in the final two rounds having missed the second weekend through injury before being named as a replacement on the third.
Ian McGeechan liked a big, imposing forward to be his captain – Martin Johnson in 1997 and 2001 and Paul O'Connell in 2009 – someone who can intimidate referees as well as opponents, but Gatland's appointment of Warburton is more nuanced. The wing forward has the respect of referees, and while he was sent off in the 2011 World Cup semi-final against France for a tip tackle, the disciplinary panel that imposed a three-match ban on him went out of its way to pay credit to his character and integrity.
Warburton was not Wales's captain against England in March, although he took over when Gethin Jenkins was replaced on the hour, but he had the ear of the referee Steve Walsh, one of the most contrary officials on the circuit. When the flanker was penalised at one breakdown he asked for an explanation from Walsh and received one, and was even accommodated when he asked a supplementary question.
In contrast, the England captain Chris Robshaw was barely met with eye contact when he queried some of the many penalties awarded against his side in the scrum and at the breakdown that day and was peremptorily dismissed. If Robshaw ever had a chance of leading the Lions, and he had led England to victory over New Zealand only three months before, it disappeared that evening along with his side's title challenge.
Joubert, the South African who is refereeing the second Test, was also accommodating to Wales in the Six Nations when they were awarded the bulk of the penalties at the scrum and breakdown against Scotland at Murrayfield. Warburton was not the captain until the 48th-minute when Ryan Jones went off injured, but he had the ear of the official.
As one of the leading open-side flankers in the world, Warburton is one of the strongest candidates for the Test team in the squad. Even without David Pocock, Australia will be rapacious at the breakdown where they have options in Michael Hooper, Liam Gill and, probably, George Smith.
Warburton's ability to win and prevent turnovers will be crucial, but his added value as a captain is the rapport he strikes with referees. If the Lions are to win the series, they will have to win the penalty count in the two areas of the game where the whistle sounds most often.
Gatland has in Warburton a leader who is not demonstrative, emotional or volatile, but someone who remains in control and can make even Walsh listen. Poite is another referee who generally prefers players to be seen and not heard. He has had issues with O'Connell in the past, once showing him a yellow card for Munster against Northampton at Thomond Park for querying one decision too many.
Warburton picks his moment and given the influence Connolly and others fear referees have on the outcome of matches, his rapport with the officials is seen as crucial.
It's clear ok.
It's clear that there's welsh players going 'cos they're not good enough to be involved in the end of season finals.
It's clear that there's welsh players going to give them some individual experience of playing Australia.
It's clear that he's betrayed the spirit of the Lions tours in order to prioritise his build up for the next RWC.
It's clear that he's avoided picking players who offer something different to the welsh game plan.
It's clear that no matter how many times he tries the same thing ( is it six now?) his Wales gameplan isn't enough to beat Australia.
It's clear that he isn't smart enough to avoid the interview mistakes that let his cover slip, and reveal his true motives.
But despite all that, a Lions tour ain't about the coach - it's about the team. Come on the Lions. Theres still enough decent players going to beat the Ozzies.
It's clear that loum has a bee in his bonnet 😆
Its clear your toys are well and truely out of the pram. Good work bravo.
Off to Exeter tomorrow to watch Glaws play the Exeter people, will be a poignant day as one of the boys is very seriously ill and may not make it to next season. A curry after as well, maybe the last time I see this lad so heres hoping his beloved Cherry and Whites put a smile on his face.
Enjoy the game pigface, it should be a cracker with exeter playing for a HC spot. It's not on ESPN 🙁
Gray being unveiled at Castre tmw....So he is no longer the second best Scottish lock at his team 8) Hope your mate has a cracking day out Pigface.
Fair enough. Rant over.
Have a good day with your mate, Pigface. Some magic cider down there too.
Scott Johnson to be Scotlands Director or Rugby and the search for a new head coach starts again.....hmmm did we not just appoint a forwards coach what if the new head coach does not like him.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/rugby-union/22401943
Scarlets look determined to lose, playing against 13 men as well!
That puts it all into perspective pigface, hope you can all have a day to remember.
Just bought tickets for the Sale game tomorrow, hope they can beat the pests and finish on a high. Christ knows what next season will bring!
Relegation is my guess dwarf! I think that I've decided against getting a season ticket....
I don't know, i do know that the club is losing a lot of money. The horrible difficulty in getting to the ground by public transport is a factor in the falling crowds but if they can start playing winning rugby again then maybe the numbers will rise.
Not many big name players now but then again, the big names haven't been worth their pay packets this year.
I don't think diamond is going to bring you success. Sale need to sign smart. Exeter and LW have proved that there are plenty of players in the championship who are more than capable of prem standard rugby. Look at arscott. I remember him (and his brother) at the mem. Sign smart, play well and keep the finances in check. Play offs are great but a sustainable presence in the prem is better than being relegated and going bust.
Yep, getting to the ground is one is the real issues for me. Agree too about big name players. I'm in danger of labouring a point, but good god Richie Gray has been a waste of money!
Yep. Too many big tickets. Cipriani hasn't been a huge success either has he?
I wouldn't worry about access. If they play good rugby and show some spirit, people will come. Exeters ground is hardly central.
You are not laboring a point,I am Scottish and think Gray has been crap. What has to be a worry for Sale supporters is that they don't appreciate the decent players they have/had; Ritchie Vernon being an example of that. Oh and your owner trying to buy the Huns fc as well I 🙄
Not sure LW proved there are plenty of primeirship standard players. A few, they also proved you need a strong squad to compete over a season and time to build it up. What they did show ks that a tight knit squad of triers will help. Sale dont seem to have the last.
I really hope we lose the bus tackling cretin over the summer. I was excited when he wad signed but apart from a few flashes of talent and creativity he's been anonymous. McLeod has been the better player all season even if he isn't as naturally talented.
The pack needs beefing up and by Christ the defence coach needs skinning alive, his still twitching corpse rolled in salt and his pelt nailed to the gates as a gentle reminder!
Cant blame Vernon for leaving, Diamond has said he's had to spend too much of his time with a small number of players (Cipriani?) and not been able to look after the rest.
I think the problems run deeper than Diamond though, the whole club is in a mess. Edgeley Park was a hole and it was unpleasant dealing with county knuckle dragging scum* but at least it was easy to get to/from.
*Being spat at and threatened on your way to the ground by county fans tends to make you think of them as filth.