Now, this will stir up a whole heap of trouble but it's a genuine question.
The woman is from the US- over there you can under take on multi lane roads as much as you like. If someone is sat in the outside lane you can pass them on the inside. Happy as you like.
She just doesn't get why it's not legal here when we're sat behind someone doing 60 in the outside lane when the other two lanes are clear for a distance. My answer is that you don't expect people to be passing you on the inside. But that's not really an answer is it- why aren't we expecting it? They expect it in the States.
Seems a bit chicken and egg to me- you can't under take because it's the law, it's the law because no one's expecting you to under take, no one's expecting you to undertake because it's the law.
How many five lane highways do we have in the UK?
Yeah, and when I rule the world shielded turn on red will be allowed too.
How many four lane ones do we have down near London where everyone sits in the outside 2 lanes?
I will say that as a pedestrian when I lived in Ostraya the left turn on red scared the crap out of me even when I'd been there for a year.
Yeah but London folk cheer when they get out of 2nd.
Why is under taking illegal?
It isn't.
AFAIK, "undertaking" doesn't even exist as a term used inside the law, you either pass on the right (ok) or pass on the left (bit naughty).
If the 'BMW drivers' promise to stick to 55mph - It may be okay?
I really don't get why BMW and Audi don't allow their steering wheels to turn to the left? Either that or all their drivers have some of limited vision which means they cannot see the inside lane of motorways.....
Anyone been done for undertaking or know anyone that has?
I do it all the time - to be honest - if your not overtaking you should be in lane 1 not any of the overtaking lanes - I am not crossing three lanes of traffic and back again just to overtake - so is safer just to quickly go past on the inside. IMHO
Which means you drive a (shudders) Ford or (dry retches) Renault.
Don't worry, keep saving and one day you too will be able to afford a good car
Edit: bugger, trolling doesn't wirk if you're so slow 2 other people post first.
I'll be honest, I drive a lot (in a Combo van) and it's not BMW and Audi drivers that do this. It's fairly evenly spread between pretty much any car that's not a BMW or Audi as they're all doing 80 as soon as they can.
Yawn at the BMW comments.
We aren't all like that.
But I am not going to get phased as Pink Floyd sounds mighty fine this evening.....
7 posts before a dig at someone for the car they drive! Well done!
I thought the reason that your weren't meant to undertake is thattraffic was always meant to be in the left most lane unless they were overtaking, in which case you couldn't undertake. Also it isn't illegal to pass on the left, happens all the time in heavy traffic on motorways!
Do Americans have a rule to pull to near side lane unless overtaking?
if you don't change lane to pass it's acceptable....
[i]She just doesn't get why it's not legal here when we're sat behind someone doing 60 in the outside lane when the other two lanes are clear for a distance. My answer is that you don't expect people to be passing you on the inside. But that's not really an answer is it- why aren't we expecting it? They expect it in the States.[/i]
Show her the road kill stats from America compared to the road mortality stats from the UK, that should explain things. There's a reason for lots of laws in the UK that might not be immediately obvious to an American but the general reasoning is that less people die as a result.
My experiences from driving in America is that they are terrible drivers, their lane discipline is appalling and while I've seen no accidents on freeways while I've been there I'm sure percentage-wise they get a lot more as a result of their poor lane culture.
If you are in the left lane, and some twonk is driving resolutely in the either of the overtaking lanes then it is not illegal to continue in your lane thus 'undertaking' them.
It is illegal I believe to move out of your lane to the left to get past someone.
I'm with hillsofsomerset on this. Generally, if I consider it safe to do so, I'll undertake, fk em. Listen to the Germans and the 7sec rule (maybe a myth, but sounds about right to me).
I have been told off for "Swerving" - overtaking a car from lane1-3-1 cuase they were hogging lane 2. I was getting done for speeding at the time though!
I can see the point that its harder for car drivers to see traffic to their immediate left though, which is probably why its frowned upon.
And they swan around in their huge black estate cars, the police too scared to arrest them, even if they're only doing 20mph...
As an aside, the first day I drove in Texas, some guy in a truck ran right into the back of us when we stopped in traffic. We anticipated him getting out with a pistol and shooting us but all he did was turn out to be terribly middle class and apologetic.
My experience of American drivers are that they are no worse than most over here.
Undertaking is illegal here because 90& of the drivers can't even cope with overtaking yet.
Haver you seen the standard of driving on our motorways? When was the last time you saw a car spaced the legal minimum 2 seconds from the car in front? Passing on both sides? They'd be total carnage!
If anyone wants to link to the legal act that forbids undertaking, then go ahead.
Doesn't exist though. 😉
[quote=munrobiker ]My experience of American drivers are that they are no worse than most over here.
How long have you been driving?
Great Gig In The Sky is on.
No more BMW driver references again and the world feels not too bad....
Undertaking? Prefer to call it maintaining the speed i'm doing in the lane i'm in (about 60/65 usually), lane one of most motorways is like a VIP lane these days.
If anyone wants to link to the legal act that forbids undertaking, then go ahead.
Doesn't exist though.
Highway Code 268: Do not overtake on the left or move to a lane on your left to overtake
I once saw a white Landrover Discovery try to undertake another car in a bus lane. Serious test of his brakes, as the bus lane runs out quite abruptly as it approaches a roundabout, and the other guy was no way giving in.
tlr - Member
If you are in the left lane, and some twonk is driving resolutely in the either of the overtaking lanes then it is not illegal to continue in your lane thus 'undertaking' them.
It is illegal I believe to move out of your lane to the left to get past someone.
POSTED 8 MINUTES AGO # REPORT-POST
This.
I "undertake" all the time, people get very upset, what you're not supposed to do is move to the left lane of someone, pass them and rejoin your lane. Presumably so that we all know people overtake on the right and it keeps things in a bit of order.
[i]My experience of American drivers are that they are no worse than most over here. [/i]
Here you go. Scroll down to the bottom for UK and US stats. Americans are far worse drivers than us. Dead people on the road prove it.
[url] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_traffic-related_death_rate [/url]
268
Do not overtake on the left or move to a lane on your left to overtake. In congested conditions, where adjacent lanes of traffic are moving at similar speeds, traffic in left-hand lanes may sometimes be moving faster than traffic to the right. In these conditions you may keep up with the traffic in your lane even if this means passing traffic in the lane to your right. Do not weave in and out of lanes to overtake.
OP people are not expecting to be overtaken on the inside thus making it dangerous.
It's kind of obvious really isnt it?
1. we join and leave the motorway from the left hand lane so it makes sense to have this lane as the 'slowest'.
2. if you have people overtaking you from both sides then you have to be concentrating on looking back on both sides all the times. Restricting overtaking to one side dramatically cuts the work load. Yes you need to check your inside but not as much.
3. It just keeps good order. The American way of doing it is bloody stupid IMO. Just asking for trouble.
The should get tougher on middle lane hoggers. I wonder just how much congestion is caused by them. So frustrating when you get held up in a queue of cars all having to squeeze past someone in the middle lane. Well most people are, there is always one knob that comes steaming up the inside and undertakes everyone and the offending car and then squeezes back into a gap that is far too small. Repeat middle lane offenders should just have their licenses taken off them.
I can see the point that its harder for car drivers to see traffic to their immediate left though, which is probably why its frowned upon.
If you think visability is poor on the left in cars - try vans and trucks, the blind spots are huge thats why cyclists die there. But car drivers are well versed in passing through (or driving into then staying in) a trucks blind spot and getting squashed there. Its not necessarily the largest vehicles that have the biggest blind spot, you could hide a bus in the blind spot on my astra van.
In a lot of vehicles theres a plenty you can't see, most particularly on the left, so it helps having an etiquette for passing on one side rather than the other.
The should get tougher on middle lane hoggers. I wonder just how much congestion is caused by them.
Congestion is caused by overtaking when theres dense traffic - having lanes travelling at different speeds and the subsequent lane changing of faster vehicles. When the traffic is dense quicker drivers touch the brakes as they approach slower ones, and moving into other lanes the cars behind them brake a little too. Seeing brake lights other drivers brake a bit and a wave of braking goes back through the traffic until everything stops - then goes again with everyone unsure as why the traffic just stopped for no apparent reason. Thats why you get variable speed limits on busy stretches of motorway - slowing the traffic to 50 means all the lanes are moving at the same speed and theres less lane changing.
Highway Code 268: Do not overtake on the left or move to a lane on your left to overtake
The HC is not a legal document.
Undertaking is not illegal.
druidh - Member
munrobiker » My experience of American drivers are that they are no worse than most over here.
How long have you been driving?
POSTED 14 MINUTES AGO # REPORT-POST
I spend a lot of time on the roads, this week I've driven around 35 hours and 1500 miles. I've done 40,000 miles since January. I see a lot of bad driving.
The HC is not a legal document.
Undertaking is not illegal.
The Highway Code may be used in evidence in any court proceedings under the Traffic Acts (see 'The road user and the law') to establish liability. This includes rules which use advisory wording such as ‘should/should not’ or ‘do/do not’.
Although the 'undertaking' itself may not be, Dangerous Driving (which it would be) IS.
On non-Motorways that might just be 'Careless driving (driving without due care)'.
Rule 163 uses advisory wording and "will not, in itself, cause a person to be prosecuted", but may be used in evidence to establishing liability in any court proceedings
Not illegal but if you do it and the person you are undertaking pulls into your lane you may well be ****ed by your insurance
Although the 'undertaking' itself may not be, Dangerous Driving (which it would be) IS.
Have you any idea how hard it is to get a charge of dangerous driving to stick?
Merely passing a car on the left would't get you anywhere near the threshold for dangerous.
Not illegal but if you do it and the person you are undertaking pulls into your lane you may well be ****ed by your insurance
Generally speaking, the onus is on the driver changing lanes to make sure it is clear.
Worth mentioning that if you are ivolved in an accident which is not your fault, your premium can still increase.
Been known to do it in the car on occasion (as moving from the inside lane right to the outside lane and back again can be a pain in the arse, though also proves the point to Mr Middle Lane quite well). I will not do it on a motorbike though as that is just asking for pain and turmoil.
[i]Anyone been done for undertaking or know anyone that has?
[/i]
Had a big arguement once with a copper who pulled me for this. M25 going north and turned off for the M40 - its two lanes here.
I was on a m/c and just stayed at 70mph (already seen plod), and 'undertook' two cars that were running at about 60mph in the 2nd lane.
I stuck to the arguement that it was legal as they were obviously queuing, and it is legal to overtake on the left - why else would they be driving like that? Eventually he started to take a detailed look at my bike - and I told him in no uncertain way that if he'd finished I'd be off. He then swore and told me to go.
Undertaking only occurs when people are driving in the wrong lane, and usually causing an obstruction.
Careless driving (driving without due care)This offence is committed when the accused's driving falls below the standard expected of a reasonable, prudent and competent driver in all the circumstances of the case.
The maximum penalties are:a £2,500; and
mandatory 3 to 9 penalty points; and
discretionary disqualification.Examples
The test of whether the standard of driving has fallen below the required standard is objective. It applies both when the manner of driving in question is deliberate and when it occurs as a result of incompetence, inadvertence or inexperience.
Occasionally an accident occurs but there is no evidence of any mechanical defect, illness of the driver or other explanation to account for why the accident happened. In these cases, a charge of careless driving may be successfully defended on the basis that there is no culpability. The case for the prosecution may be put on the basis that there is a very strong inference that the defendant was driving below the standard expected of a reasonable, prudent and competent driver because of, for example, the fact that a collision resulted.The following are examples of driving which may amount to driving without due care and attention:
overtaking on the inside;
So then, pretty illegal I'd say. No?
So then, pretty illegal I'd say. No?
No.
That's not legislation, it's just a simplified bit of text that gives a couple of different examples of what [i][b]may[/b][/i] constitute careless driving.
I got pulled over for undertaking not long after I passed my test, 17 years ago. Travelling north on the M5 south of Gloucester. In the left lane doing 65ish. Middle lane full of traffic doing about 55ish, right lane not much more. Massive gaps between everything in the left lane. The old bill argued it was dangerous, I argued that I was travelling in the correct lane and everyone in the overtaking lanes were not "overtaking". Gave me a producer. I took his details and warrant number so I could report him. Didn't like that very much. Got off.
