[Closed] Why is Nigel an MEP?

Why is Farage an MEP? Money and a platform. the money is the main thing. He has been diverting money from EU to UK campaigning - the EU effectivly funded ukip for years and is now funding Farage. He has already been in serious trouble for doing this

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@ernielynch I just want a brexit supporter to tell me some reasonable reasons for leaving Europe.

There is a theory on the left that the EU holds back countries from socialist policies. I do not buy it at all but thats the theory behind lexit ( left wing brexit)

Its the only reason I have seen for brexit that has any logic to it even tho I think it bunkum.

I know people who can give me lots of good reasons why they voted to remain, I don’t however necessarily agree with them.

The problem is that it's not a symmetrical argument of pros and cons that both sides are presenting for discussion. There are obvious, documented reasons why remaining in the EU benefits us in a concrete way. I don't hear Brexit supporters explaining how Leaving actually benefits the UK. The most common justification, even from prominent Brexiteers, is that we should leave to "respect democracy", not because it will actually do us any good. At least a couple of Tory Brexiteers have suggested Brexit will be good because times will be tough, and that will "bring us together" in hardship. They genuinely advanced that as an argument in support of Brexit.

I've got no problem with someone disagreeing with remaining in the EU. I've got a big problem when they won't present concrete arguments to explain why leaving is good for the UK.

The “EU bureaucrats” you want to oppose are working for you. Like the UK civil service.

To a degree they are, but they're also working for over 20 other nations who may have conflicting interests. (eg Spanish tomato growers, UK steel industry.)

Many of us are happy with that trade off - we effectively sub-contract out our Civil Service which saves us a fortune - but we have to accept the drawbacks as well.

Tony Benn on the subject of Bureaucrats:

100pc agree with ernielynch. The remainers ad homs have never worked. Constantly trying the same tactic is going to fail again. A positive case for the EU needs to be made. ...and not one based on economic growth - outside of cities people are actually opposed to growth. Every new housing estate, retail park, industrial estate, road is bitterly opposed. Remain in the EU and (in addition to the land you're already losing) we'll turn 8pc more of the countryside around your town into houses and industrial estate over the next 15 years isn't a vote winner.

I can't help but wonder if it's really bad tactics or deliberate. The Greens are Euro-skeptic as they some. The Libdems were calling for a referendum back in 2007 and have had it in their manifesto at least once since then. A cynic might wonder of a lot of remainers are using logical fallacies simply because they can't think of anything positive to say about the EU.

I didn't vote leave, but if I had I'd be pretty happy with the Remain tactics.

To dismiss roughly half the population as such

It’s not even close to half the population.

I just want a brexit supporter to tell me some reasonable reasons for leaving Europe.

These are; as the the advert disclaimer goes "are for illustrative purposes only" I'm not going to get into an debate/argument about the rights or wrongs, as JHJ would say; do your own research

1. The EU's immigration policy is largely and demonstrably racist. There is almost no Sub Saharan  Black African country that has not had it's recent history ****ed up by European colonists, and yet the FOM policies are largely to enrich white Europeans within the block, at the expense of black immigration

2. The European debt crisis, it can be argued has largely contributed to the political rise of far right parties, and has largely fallen on those least able to bear the cost (working class and poor of poor countries such as Greece and Portugal)

3. It is by and large elitist and undemocratic. You only have to watch/listen to the news to hear the bargaining going on between France and Germany for the top spot from Nov 1. they can be fairly criticised that they are acting as if it is theirs to decide alone.

4. Fishing and Agriculture policies are backward entrenched and for the benefit of rich European countries, and as such can be fairly criticised as racist.

5. the EU is wasteful, bloated, and unrepresentative.

6. It's neoliberal policies are largely enriching global businesses at the expense of the working classes.

We're better off out... (goes the sales pitch)

So if we leave Britain will have a very open immigration policy, won't have debt that allows far right parties to profit, won't be elitist, will be able to do something about EU fishing policies and won't be pro business at the expense of the working classes? All these are things that are already happening in britain and are highly likely to be get worse by leaving the EU. Britain leaving will make us more insular and empower the far right

Ironic if the EU are racist to refugees .... when fear foreign refugees were weaponised by farage himself

@ernielynch I just want a brexit supporter to tell me some reasonable reasons for leaving Europe.

I can fully understand your frustration when the only person willing to engage appears to be chewkw. My advise to you akira would be to look somewhere other than a forum where apparently 99% of the punters backed remain.

"To dismiss roughly half the population as such"

It’s not even close to half the population.

So the UK is leaving the EU because all Leavers are "stupid and racist"? But wait, they're not even close to half the population, how stupid does that make the Remainers?

Ironic if the EU are racist to refugees …. when fear foreign refugees were weaponised by farage himself

It is indeed ironic that Remainers should dismiss Leavers as racists when the EU is inherently racist.

I also often find it ironic that Remainers call Leavers stupid..

I know a few people in my area, South West, (not NF's SE) who vote for the brexit party this time around purely as a protest vote against our governments in ability to get brexit done. These are people who voted remain and are traditionally Conservative voters. Much like the original referendum, voters for leave / brexit party aren't all stereotypical thuggish racists.

Personally, I voted remain originally and didnt vote brexit party this time around.

As for NF becoming a MEP again, it's his celebrity status, cleaver marketing and relentlessly excessive news coverage riding on the crest of the government's inability to leave the eu.... The man's a **** (imo), but a cleaver **** who knows how to work the media system. The logo of the party, a rightwards pointing arrow is brilliant, a big arrow pointing to where you make your mark on the ballot.....

Ernielynch I do appreciate you being more constructive than the um other brexit supporters on here. I do not base my opinion solely on here, I have friends from years ago who are pro brexit and spout stuff and post stuff but it's all based on mistruths and opinions pushed forward by people like Farage. When actually asked for real reasons they just regurgitate the same stuff, I don't think the EU is perfect but if we leave I genuinely think that racism and elitism will fester here. The EU having problems doesn't mean leaving it will be good for the UK, those same problems exist here and isolating ourselves certainly won't make them go away.

The EU having problems doesn’t mean leaving it will be good for the UK, those same problems exist here and isolating ourselves certainly won’t make them go away.

The argument that we can better change EU policy on it's relationship with black Africa, it's protectionist policies of agriculture, and its neoliberal attitude to global interests, from within the EU; is frankly deluded, as many of these things suit the centrist govts we've had for the last 40 years, and the Tories are quite happy to imitate once we leave.

There is a chance once we out of the EU we can make better immigration arrangements, and better and fairer trade agreements with the rest of world (to be fair, this will be at the expense of some of our own sectors such as farming), and be protected (somewhat) to the looming effects of the euro.

I doubt any of these will be resolved by an increasingly right wing Tory govt, or the Brexit Party though.

Ok this thread was about why Farage is an MEP it's rapidly turning it into another Brexit thread, if it continues there'll be no choice but to close it. Take your EU discussion to rather large thread about it.

Nevertheless there are widely held beliefs on here that anyone opposed to EU membership is stupid, worthless, and racist.

There's a widely held claim that people believe that, but (surprise!) it's a distortion of the truth. You have it arse backwards.

It's demonstrably untrue that "all" leavers are stupid and / or racist, your good self is proof of that. Rather, most of the idiots and racists voted leave.

You don't need to spend long on places like Facebook to see which side of the coin has the monopoly on semi-literate ranting, ad hom attacks and outright abuse, racist comments, non-sequiturs, and frankly batshit pearls of intellectual big-hitting like "I don't understand why we can't just leave." Sure, remainers aren't all squeaky-clean and calling people idiots is hardly going to win over any hearts (Dunning-Kruger to the forum please), but the balance is very, very heavily one-sided.

As I said on another thread; even if I thought brexit was a great idea I'd have grave concerns about the sort of people I was getting into bed with.

Ack, sorry Drac, I didn't see your post. Good point, I'll shush.

Banned!

Ok this thread was about why Farage is an MEP it’s rapidly turning it into another Brexit thread, if it continues there’ll be no choice but to close it. Take your EU discussion to rather large thread about it.

I don't think I have ever agreed more with a moderating decision.

Yes my question has been answered.

Thank you all v much 😂