[Closed] Why dont office workers etc,work 12 hour shifts

It's grim, that's why. A different question would be why DO manual workers do it?

are you my boss ?

tbh everyone in my lab works between 10 and 8 hours sometimes more and popping in at the odd weekend, don't get overtime or none of that and most people don't take their full annual leave. and we are public sector workers!

I also suspect that 2 hrs extra of sedentary desk hours would increase the risk of heart disease etc

You have some reasonable points. However, as someone who had a fairly flexible working day, I found that communicating with other folk in other companies/departments was easier if we all stuck to the same core hours. Of course, this is only an issue if you want dialogue to take place in a reasonably short timescale, otherwise, email etc is fine.

Different classes of people work different shifts.

Answered that for you.

Controversial ?

True though.

Big machinery that is most efficient to run 24 hours at a time requires shifts in order to allow this.

Fire/rescue/hospital services are required 24 hours per day. Hence shifts.

Office work, by and large, can be put away at the end of one day and picked up the next.

[quote=bikebouy ]Different classes of people work different shifts.
Answered that for you.
Controversial ?
True though.
It's nothing to do with "class". It's about the role/job.

And concentration diminishes so shorter hours are more productive.

our factory workers do 8 hour shifts - 6am-2pm, 2pm-10pm, 10pm-6am. well, technically 7.5hr, as they have a half hour break in the middle of the shift.

our office staff actually work longer as the day is 8 hours [i]plus[/i] lunch half hour. except Fridays, which are an hour shorter.

In the moulding depts at work we have large presses that are run on a 24hr-3 shift system. The presses need to be brought up to an optimum temp before operating and then maintained at that temp, it takes 2 hrs to bring each moulding tool up to temp so a nightly shut down simply isn't feasible.
Personally i work in the toolroom so i go home at 5pm 🙂

But call centres are usully there and open 24 per day, so have 12 hour shifts, instant reducton in workforce required, and less peeps commuting.

Where a those peeps could be retrained to work in the health services and shorten shifts.

WOuld you rather speak to a oficer worker about sonmmething after 11 hours of them working, or a doctor , who has done the same shift, and has some bad news for you.

In an office worker and for the last two days have worked 6am to 9pm. That's a 15 hour shift btw....

[quote=project ]But call centres are usully there and open 24 per day, so have 12 hour shifts, instant reducton in workforce required,
You haven't really thought this through - have you?

oh yeah when I did factory work in summer hols from uni we were on 8 Hr shifts but often took extra hours for more cash up to 16 not sure if that wad legal ?

I do, regularly, and get paid for my standard 35hour week. The question should be - Why don't office workers get paid for working 12hour shifts?

Child care and generally having a life...

I work 12 hour shifts, nights and days, one weekend in 4 off. I'm about to move to a shorter night shift... Hurrah... And a longer, 14 hour day shift. It saves money, apparently, which is for the greater good.

Whether this will improve the quality of the work we do is, as yet, unproven, but I'm only a nurse on an intensive care unit so its not that important.

Yep instead of 3 shifts of 8 hours you then have 2 shifts of 12 hours so youve lost one shift and all those staff.

Simples.

Crikey it may well be a good question to ask the management who work just day shifts.

Project - quite a lot do they just get paid for doing 5x8 hrs rather than 5x12!

because shift workers while working a 12 hour shift will not be doing it 5 days per week, every week...

Several factors probably.

Personally I have found that at the end of a 12 hour day doing a manual job I am of course tired and less productive than at the start, but still ok. However in a office job I find by 12 hr my brain is fried. After a sustained period of 12 hr days ina office I'm a zombie. This may be the manual job and office jobs I've done though.

I think its the no overtime issue too, for some reason there is culture of office work = no overtime; which is reasonable for managers / director / bonus based people but for production staff less so. Employers would not pay extra for the 12 hr shift so its only done when necessary.

Poly , but thats just stupid, its doing someone out of a job, and getting work done on the cheap.

Would you rather work at a machine or do something manual for 12 hours, or sit staring at a screen trying to get a spreadsheet to add up?

Office work isn't generally core to the business in many industry's. You just need someone for a few hours a day to tidy up the paperwork and hold a few meetings so hat the actual skilled staff can get on with their job free of the burden of paperwork etc. It makes since for them too work little and often whilst the rest of us do a three or four long shifts a week and enjoy the time off.

thats just stupid,

it is but it very hard to fight against it in most companies.

What length of shift do surgeons and other medical consultants do?

The Brick has it. I've done both and in general production stuff is auto pilot where much office work requires more thinking so it's difficult to do 12 hours. Doesn't explain the medical people working 12hr shifts though.

I'm an office worker and I've just finished work... 8.30-5.00 at the office, no lunch, 7.30-10.18 at home coz the workload's so damn big. Won't get paid for the extra though.

Just short of 11 hours all told... 👿

shorter hours are more productive

Long hours are counter-productive.

Office work isn't generally core to the business in many industry

It is in mine.

I work long hours without overtime when I need to, but then again I can coast (and hang around on here) more when I don't. That's why there's no overtime.

Office work isn't generally core to the business in many industry

It is in many industries though it is, office work does not mean clerical. What you say for clerical / admin is true, but for many business office based work is the production end of the business.

Engineer (design and calcs)
programming
accountancy
law
finance
creative industries
research
....

You just need someone for a few hours a day to tidy up the paperwork and hold a few meetings so hat the actual skilled staff can get on with their job free of the burden of paperwork etc.

🙂

[quote=project ]Yep instead of 3 shifts of 8 hours you then have 2 shifts of 12 hours so youve lost one shift and all those staff.
Simples.
And just close down another 2 days a week when all those staff have worked their 35/36 hrs?

work 3 12 hour shifts. days and nights. weekend for me till sunday night 🙂

I knew a guy in IT who worked 4x12 then 4 days off. He hated it, because he had few weekends to go biking with his mates who all worked traditional office hours.

I reckon that in the construction industry office wallahs "work" longer hours than manual workers.

You would struggle to find a manual building worker working anywhere near a 12 hour shift on site.

we work 7 till 7,with varying start times as that is when our customers are open. Makes sense no?

Office work isn't core to the business ?? You might not think that if all the HR and Finance wallahs went home, and you don't get paid any more. No more stock ordering, no paying invoices. No planning, R & D, marketing, ordering, no work at all after about 12 hours.

I guess the boys could all borrow the van and whip down to B & Q in their tea break then.

Everywhere I've worked (light, high tech industry) everyone worked the same hours, regardless of where you worked (office or shop floor), which was, officially, something like 8:30 to 5:00. The difference would be that the shop floor get overtime, office don't.

I think before this thread goes any further we need to establish whether manual workers actually, annually, work longer ours than 'sit-down' workers do (as the OP pus it) with some actual evidence or a credible source.

Or I might be tempted to think that the OP is just talking a load of rubbish he dreamed up whilst manning a machine somewhere.

A close friend of mine, who's technically a civil servant, but works with the army, has been working 14 hour days, with work at home over the weekends as well. She probably wonders why she isn't working a 12 hour day too.

I am a graphics/printers department manager and I work on a mac all night, we do 6pm till 6.30am mon, tue, wed nights than we do 5pm till 3am thurs night. We are that busy we are running 24 7.

amazed this hasn't degenerated into 'who can piss the furthers'....

However, most 12 hour shifts are not 5 days a week. Eu working time limits are also a factor in this.

For the record I'm on 40 hours (office) work since monday morning....Seen my bike for about an hour all told.

Cock.

Grimy - Member

Office work isn't generally core to the business in many industry's. You just need someone for a few hours a day to tidy up the paperwork and hold a few meetings so hat the actual skilled staff can get on with their job free of the burden of paperwork etc. It makes since for them too work little and often whilst the rest of us do a three or four long shifts a week and enjoy the time off.

OK lets see I'm an Engineering manager.

I am out on the plant doing engineering type stuff some of the day...

I also do Ordering, finance/budget, HR staff coaching, appraisals, disciplinary etc, health & safety including training & risk assessments, deal with environmental issues, IT support & a whole host of other roles that I'm not sure are in my contract.

But I've never seen anyone in an office function free up my time to do the stuff I'm good at. Its mostly stupid requests for information about stuff they have no idea what to do with or something they will file away never to be seen again.

Think Dilbert and your 1/2 way there 😉

In reply to Duggan it very much varies even on our site, but I'm pretty sure those people on a 12 hour shift will be on overtime in most cases so they get the extra.
Unlike most managers who I work with that work at least 10 hours over their contracted hours and get bugger all

erm shop staff?? try being a retail manager, if its less than 12 hours its a short day, all i seem to do is work!!

I worked compressed hours- a 35 hour week in 3 or 4 days- for a while. It suited me pretty well but I was definately getting less done, as the day went on I got less productive for sure.

Wherever I have worked, the production staff have got paid overtime, whereas the office staff have to do it for the love of the company.
Place I worked a few yrs ago had me regularly doing a bit of overtime in the week and then asking (pressuring) me on a Friday afternoon to come in at the weekend and help production reach the numbers - 8 to 4 Sat & Sun was frequent enough to be annoying and without pay.

In a production environment, the factory costs money. Millions is often invested into capital equipment so to recoup the cost, the factory needs to run as many hours as possible.
In the office side of the business however, the main cost to the company is the salary of the employees. So as long as the work is done, it doesn't make sense for the staff to do more than their contracted hours (although of course many do without payment).

Child care and generally having a life...

As a bit of a detour... Why don't children 'work' office hours and why do they have summer holidays? It seems to me that they aren't required to bring in the harvest any more so why do their hours and holiday entitlements not match their parents?

@ LMT

Good point.. When I started in stores you could rock up at 845 and be out by 545 with paid breaks and lunch.. That was 30 years ago mind you.. Now it's typically a 12 hour day plus for most managers..

BTW not suggesting shop staff can p**s furthest.. most sectors in the UK work longer than their oppo's in France or Spain..

That said it beats the US where I 'enjoyed' the sum total of two weeks annual leave each year

project - Member
Poly , but thats just stupid, its doing someone out of a job, and getting work done on the cheap.

Yep instead of 3 shifts of 8 hours you then have 2 shifts of 12 hours so youve lost one shift and all those staff.

Your example of call centres is not a good comparison. A typical call centre will not have the same number of staff at 3am and 3pm. Depending on the business it can employ people on 'short' day contracts (e.g. 5pm-9pm) to meet consumer demand. - as a result they may not have less people commuting - just people commuting at different times. Since public transport is crap at unusual times, this forces people into cars.

Why don't children 'work' office hours and why do they have summer holidays?

I'd guess that the ability to learn is affected by trying to do too much in one day

During my time at secondary school in the 80's our school day was shortened from a 4.30 finish to a 3.30 finish then a 3.15 finish. Non of the lesson times were reduced but the number of breaks we had were reduced and shortened.

pfft working hours, I live my job, always switched on, only way it can be!

I live my job, always switched on, only way it can be!

You and me both! Those toilets won't clean themselves. But you can't just blame the cistern Tim.

Office/shop worker here. I work from 8am to 7 pm on average 5.5 days per week , lunch break is eating a sandwich on the move and swigging coffee from time to time. When I drive past a factory in our local industrial estate there are always groups of people sitting outside in the sun eating sarnies at lunchtime, the factory's also closed at weekends. That's my impression of factory work - sure you work 12 hour shifts but with 3 breaks and 2 days off a week...I wish!

Is this a joke topic?

Alot of office workers DO work 12hrs a day. ....and only get paid upto 5.30.

The workload, culture etc.

I used to work in head office retail and there were always people working to Midnight to 'get it done'.

No time off in leui or 4 on 4 off.

Well I've done office work with anything from 7:30 start to 6pm finish 5 days a week, Also done my 37hrs in 4 days and many other variants.

Also when you add it all up most systems result in the same amount of work completed in a year.

A lot of "office" work isn't something that the next person can pick up either.

Also why would I pay office staff a shift bonus when it's not needed?

A point well made several times a lot of industrial process's either need to be kept running or involve very expensive equipment that needs to have a high utilisation to make it viable.

I work in an industry (freelance based) where a 12 hour day is the standard. It's a mix of manual labour and brain based stuff - fault finding, programming etc. The last couple of hours of a day, 99% of the staff, even the best ones have slowed down mentally - finding simple wiring faults can take much longer than it should and tempers are usually frayed. The ones who are still capable of working flat out physically are usually chemically enhanced. Don't get me started on day-and-a-halfs and double days. Utterly pointless.

A 12 hour day, plus 8 hours sleep leaves 4 hours left over. Add an hour of journey time in each way and your left with 2 hours to eat and have a life. That's not something sustainable on a 5-day a week basis.

most sectors in the UK work longer than their oppo's in France or Spain..

Not sure about that, despite the reputation the Spanish work very long hours.

Cant beleive the OP said shopwork, traditionally the checkout staff etc do PT or FT Hours but I think you will find Managers do way more than they are supposed to , were talking a 50 hour week minimum upto around 70 hours, I know a lot of guys who work for the big 4 plus others who work for the smaller retailers and its all the same, sometimes you win most of the time you dont

I'm a manual worker, a fabricator, and I work 8:30-17:30.

Now and again we have to do longer days, but the thought of working in my environment 12 hours a day 5 days a week is not a pleasant one.

I"ve worked 12 hour shifts for over 20 years now, not an office worker well not unless it's one of my days to be in the office. One of the reasons they brought them in is you need a 1/3 less staff. As we need 24 hours of cover then it makes it easy to have staff average out to a 37.5 week. Currently we get a 4 days extra holiday a year but they're wanting to change that so you work 1 less shift per 10 weeks or so.

It could work for office workers too but it'll be a little harder to implement.

A 12 hour day, plus 8 hours sleep leaves 4 hours left over. Add an hour of journey time in each way and your left with 2 hours to eat and have a life. That's not something sustainable on a 5-day a week basis.

8 hours sleep. That would be nice.

Hands up who's in the office right now?
Me for one
It's tough at the top! 😆

We should be aiming to work less hours and being more productive when we do work.

I could never stand the Office Heroes when I was working, you know the types who come in early and stay late for no extra money. Idiots.

Hands up who's in the office right now?

I'm lying in bed trying to get a few hours sleep before going back to work tonight.

Hands up who's in the office right now?
Me for one
It's tough at the top!

Yep but that is just the basement of the house - points off for being in the office and on STW

Agree on the more from less, used to work places where hours in the office was valued more than actual achievement.

@project - all rather vague there, "seems"

A lot of private sector office workers do 8-12 hours a day especially those with their own businesses. A good number of manual type workers are paid by the hour so they work longer for more money. FWIW if you count my commute I'm out of the house for 14-16 hours a day.

If the UK hadn't opted out of the working time directive we'd all be doing only 35 hours a week, not very good for lifestyle as we'd be paying so much more for things and earning less that we'd have no money to enjoy our leisure.

What I dont understand is that I work a 42.2hour week taking into account of my annual holiday,4x12 hour shifts so actual working week 48hours.
Whereas my wife works a 37,4 hour week with all her holidays on top- so actual working week 37.4!!!!

I used to work longer office hours Monday-Thursday but could leave at noon on Friday. This sounded awesome at the interview but in practice what it means is half a day sitting on the couch or doing laundry or what have you because all your mates are at work (this was before I got back into cycling).

well we do more than the dutch.

the dutch get HAMMERED on tax for anything over their contracted hours.

"used to work places where hours in the office was valued more than actual achievement."

you worked in my office then ? 😀

Good article on hours worked / efficiency here - the trend for long hours is relatively recent.
http://www.salon.com/2012/03/14/bring_back_the_40_hour_work_week/

Personally I'm paid for a 37.5 hour week, but probably only have about 6 productive hours a day in me, the rest is just 'stuffing'. Pretty much all my good ideas (about work) occur outside of the office e.g. when cycling home or whilst out running.

oh yes footflaps your not wrong there.

I have all my technical problem solving brain farts when im riding home and my mind is in wandering mode.

I'm a manual worker, a fabricator

Does that mean you make up lies? Can we believe anything you say?

Having worked both 8 and 12 hour days/nights, I find the twelve hour shift much easier and felt more switched on/productive if I stopped doing one sort of thing and switch to something different half way through. Obviously that depends on what you do for a living, but I coped fine with, say 8 hours of meetings/managment/paperwork/admin followed by four hours of working clinically out on the ward or on home/crisis visits. Or vice versa. Not nearly as good if I did a solid 12 hours of either one or the other.

There was something on radio 4 last night about longer hours/days and productivity/value for money from your workers' wages: apparently in manufacturing/production/skilled manual work, the Americans are the benchmark of good productivity! I suppose I was suprised at that. It turns out that other countries' productivity is often measured as a percentage of the Americans, ie Greece 52%, UK 80-something percent, France 94%. (French only do a 35 hour week whereas Greeks typically work way more than that btw.)

I regularly did 12 hr shifts and more when I worked in a poxy will-to-live-sucking office. 7:30am to 7:30pm and more. I hated it.

Meanwhile, many years ago I worked 12 hr shifts on building sites in London. I loved it!

I wanna know when banks are going to have reasonable opening hours, every other high street service sector business seem to be open either early or late or both so you can actually fit it around your work. Banks open late close early and only do half a job at weekend if at all (and IMcurrentE do a crap job when they are open)

I wanna know when banks are going to have reasonable opening hours

Why would they extend their hours when we have to do less and less stuff in-branch?

What are you actually needing to do in the branch?

What are you actually needing to do in the branch?

not a happy banking customer at the moment.

Once an account is setup yeah most stuff can be done quickly and efficiently online or over the phone but there's still plenty of stuff you need to do in branch, normally when there is a problem and you really need help, bad time for the holders of your money to be working (comparatively) very limited hours.

Fair enough, setting up accounts isn't something you need to do that often. Doesn't seem worth it to spend the extra money keeping branches open all across the land just for that. I wouldn't want fees increased for that.

I have hardly ever needed to go into a branch. Only to pay in cheques, and they are fast disappearing. I want to talk to Nationwide about mortgages, and annoyingly they want me to go into their branch 🙁

I'm a desk jockey and I very often work 12 hour shifts. No TOIL, no overtime, no trades holidays. Last month I made on a per hour basis min wage + $1. I'm an idiot.

I could never stand the Office Heroes when I was working, you know the types who come in early and stay late for no extra money. Idiots.