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Off the back of last nights Game of Thrones which although epic was virtually unwatchable due to darkness of the screen.
I totally get the need for darkness as a device to maintain suspense in certain situations but, given that TV and films are primarily a visual medium it would be nice to actually see what’s happening.
It seems to be all pervading in many shows and films even when it’s absolutely unnecessary.
Why do they do it?
Phew,glad you didn't say BLACK.
To hide the shit special effects?
GoT whinges still count even when they're not in the GoT thread
I reckon you are watching the wrong type of films..
Most I watch are floodlight with Digital Flashes popping off every few seconds.
👻
GoT whinges still count even when they’re not in the GoT thread
GoT aren’t particularly guilty of it and it’s usually in context and offset by well lit scenes
It’s every other bloody show on TV trying to look moody by turning off all the lights and having dark decor everywhere. ☹️
I have this issue - if we have any curtains open and watch any drama durign daylight half the scene is always just shadow with perhaps the actors faces peering out, emoting.
Depends what you are watching on. Lots of people bring home a new TV, which is set to retina-sear by default and never change it
Plasma TV's are better at gradients of dark colours, so that helps
I have found calibrating an lcd/led can help immensely. They are a few free apps around to do it. Or get Disney's WoW DVD.
I ended up doing 5 custom setups - one for day time sports watching, one for daytime tv watching, one each for night movies tv and sports. It's a pita to switch back and forth because my tv doesn't have one button shortcuts but it is worth it.
Even then there are some shows that still need adjustments.
5 custom setups – one for day time sports watching, one for daytime tv watching, one each for night movies tv and sports. It’s a pita to switch back and forth because my tv doesn’t have one button shortcuts but it is worth it.
Even then there are some shows that still need adjustments.
This sounds like the sort of pain in the arse that would make me not bother turning the TV on.
Although I watched the whole of Breaking Bad and The Wire on an iPhone, so I’m probably not the target market for such TV adjustability 👍
Although I watched the whole of Breaking Bad and The Wire on an iPhone, so I’m probably not the target market for such TV adjustability
I watch 99% of things on an 8” Kindle Fire. TV’s are so good now that everything just looks like a set to me and that ruins immersion.
I thought you were going to be talking about themes rather than literal darkness.
Anyway, for dark poorly lit scenes, I blame these two:
I’m guessing that the editting process takes place with the director/editor chap using the best screens possible at the highest resolutions, ie, what it was filmed in.
Probably looked great whe they were doing it.
This sounds like the sort of pain in the arse that would make me not bother turning the TV on.
It's not as bad as it seems. You don't switch based on type (tv/movie) mostly on picture quality. So daytime sports is for fairly bright things, daytime tv is for darker. If you are watching a TV programme that is bright you leave it on sports etc.
Plus a universal remote with macros makes everything one touch. Tv, player, sound, only the things you need turn on and are set to the right things and you are ready to go.
I got tired of not being able to see what was going on and worse, hearing the dialogue. Seems like sound mixers filter everything through a bucket of mud these days.
So what went wrong? According to Game of Thrones cinematographer Fabian Wagner, nothing at all.
Wagner told entertainment magazine Vanity Fair: “I wanted to evolve the lighting, and make the storytelling of the lighting evolve with the storytelling of the characters.”
Wagner noted that Game of Thrones is "classically" and "naturalistically" shot — meaning that light comes from in-universe sources, rather than artificially, relying instead on "sunlight, moonlight, candlelight, and fire light".
This could be seen when the episode was illuminated by Melisandre lighting the trench, or the swords of the Dothraki, or when dragonfire rained down on the undead.
As you might expect, the enormous battle scene is being compared to the Battle at Helms' Deep in Lord of the Rings: The Two Towers, which was artificially lit. This was shot by the late Andrew Lesnie.
He could have evolved the storytelling even more by showing us what actually happened.
He could have evolved the storytelling even more by showing us what actually happened.
I think that's kinda the point though.
If you were in a battle it would be dark. It would be confusing. You would have to be on alert and peering into the darkness.
Horror movies wouldn't be half as scary if the monster just hung around in the well lit bit of the house.
You wouldn't be swiping on tinder, asking what tyres on stw, stalking your ex on Facebook, looking at boobs on Pornhub and googling the correct way to hold a knife on your phone. Double screening has ruined people's attention spans. If you're going to watch something, actually watch it. It's not an audio book!
Film is like any other art medium, it's supposed to make you do/feel something.
As opposed to sports broadcasting which is all about masses of light and huge depths of field just to get every last detail to your screen.
Telly directors are getting more ambitious as tv shows get more important & have bigger budgets. People are buying big but shit tellys and/or not able to set them up properly so they can't see anything that's shot under subtle lighting. Nothing more than that, surely?
Trying to make it look more realistic...
Telly directors are getting more ambitious as tv shows get more important & have bigger budgets. People are buying big but shit tellys and/or not able to set them up properly so they can’t see anything that’s shot under subtle lighting. Nothing more than that, surely?
To be fair the directors are as bad at this as the consumers.
We're filming something and the spec says 1080p25. It will be transmitted in i50 just like everything else in the uk and so will look nothing like intended.
Trying to make it look more realistic…
It's not all filmed in Kilmarnock and Cumbernauld you know.
If it’s dark, it’s dark....nothing to do with the telly. My main tv is in a room that is normally ideal for tv watching even when sunny, but I immediately knew that any daylight was going to interfere with the picture, because it was sooo dark. I was considering pausing it until later, but couldn’t wait to watch it. 😕
Do you guys go to a gallery, spot a Ruben and think "mehhh I could make her look better with some Snapchat filters?". Or the hay wain, could have done a better job with a 5Dmk2 and a 24-105L?
In a world of easy to ignore binge watchable TV series I'm all for something that demands some actual focus.
To hide the shit special effects?
There's some truth in this. Similar to showing CG action in rapid bursts only allowing the eye to see a few frames of detail to hide the imperfections.
Colour depth or lack of and compression artefacts fits in here too. Take a film or show that's dark and crank up the brightness, then see how it's really not so good, but you're not intended to see that.
4K in theory works to resolve this as it's aimed more at wide gamaut / High Dynamic Range TVs, but depends on the TV and source / transfer. Should have better detail in the blacks when it's done right.
But as said, most TVs and methods of broadcast, and more so with low bandwidth streaming services, means darker scenes can hide the problems.
Also, historically, look at Sapphire & Steel (kids - it was a creepy 70s sci-fi and really rather good). Very very cheaply made and sure looks wobbly set these days, but it still works and mainly because they lit everything pretty dark and let sets drop out to black. It would have been terrible if it was lit well (like the BBC often did with classic Doctor Who, as they lit it by the book, much to the annoyance of some directors).
It worked for me as a dramatic device. They couldn't see what was about to come for them. Neither could we, you're straining at the telly trying to work out who is living and who is a wight. The Dothraki horde disappearing into nothingness, with us just sat there thinking WTF, was just a brilliant atmosphere-setter.
However, the amount of artefacts on my telly suggests that what I saw wasn't entirely deliberate.
That GoT episode has quickly gained some notoriety for being dark and hard to see, the upshot of which is that the Internet is now awash with guides telling people how to set up their TVs properly. So something good has come out of it at least.
However, the amount of artefacts on my telly suggests that what I saw wasn’t entirely deliberate.
It suggests you're TV is badly setup.
Colour depth or lack of and compression artefacts fits in here too. Take a film or show that’s dark and crank up the brightness, then see how it’s really not so good, but you’re not intended to see that.
4K in theory works to resolve this as it’s aimed more at wide gamaut / High Dynamic Range TVs, but depends on the TV and source / transfer. Should have better detail in the blacks when it’s done right.
Almost the opposite is true though. Dark scenes look shit when compressed as there isn't enough bandwidth to deal with all the different black levels.
4k doesn't solve this (arguably it should make it worse) but it doest tend to come packaged with more bandwidth which makes it look better. The reality is that due to compression you can make an SD picture look better than broadcast HD, especially when you move towards the cheaper channels.
It suggests you’re TV is badly setup.
Or maybe more likely, watching it of piratebay.
Do you guys go to a gallery, spot a Ruben and think “mehhh I could make her look better with some Snapchat filters?”
I just take some brushes and paint everywhere and fix anything I feel like.
Seems to be a bit of artefact going on.
Do you guys go to a gallery, spot a Ruben......
No but, if it is too dark in the gallery to tell if it is a Ruben or a menu for the cafeteria, I might turn the lights on.
Right they're not actually.
It's your viewing environment that's too bright that's the issue.
Think about it - to watch the full gamut of a 24hr day play out you need to be in an environment that is at least as dark or darker than the piece you are watching.
Cinema is in the dark for this very reason. TV has effectively emulated what we do with cinema now with sound and vision.
Films and TV are precisely graded (coloured) for a certain look, now we need admit the trend for this look has shifted because camera systems and artistic choices now allow us to see into the dark more than before as the camera sensitivity is better. But to see the captured darkness you have to be in a dark environment.
So, there is a shift towards the lower intensities for perhaps capturing a certain mood but it's your viewing environment that is wrong. Cinema has been doing this for years and now when it's released on stream/bluray they are not boosting the blacks as much because we are moving towards accurate viewing environments and displays capable of seeing what we see in the cinema.
It's the same with dynamic range of sound. You need a more controlled environment to replicate reality.
This is why we need calibrated displays and sound systems. Cinema has been doing it for years - the home viewing environment has caught up and directors are taking advantage of it.
It was never an issue with the Two Ronnies or Match of The Day but as viewing habits/content has changed and essentially reflect the 'movies' we are noticing it more.
4k doesn’t solve this (arguably it should make it worse) but it doest tend to come packaged with more bandwidth which makes it look better.
'noise' can be a product of the camera, the editor the viewing environment.
We're always striving to get close the intended view of the director. A correctly calibration 4K environment should always be more accurate and get close to the limitations of the source.
It’s moved on from filming night scenes during the day with some kind of filter over the lens or in post production. You know the films where you could see shadows when it was meant to be dark...
Do modern TVs not have brightness/contrast controls etc? I could see what was going on with my 15 year old Sony non smart flat screen.
Anyway wasn't it dark so you had as much vision as the characters did & gave a more realistic feel of a medieval battle at night?
Anyway wasn’t it dark so you had as much vision as the characters did & gave a more realistic feel of a medieval battle at night?
Yes but why does every movie, every scene, every program seem to be at night... Surely humans exist and function in the day too..
You know, vampire movies, i get that.... Dark, sure.... But so so many things you simply cannot watch in the daytime as it's just too dark.
Do modern TVs not have brightness/contrast controls etc? I could see what was going on with my 15 year old Sony non smart flat screen.
Anyway wasn’t it dark so you had as much vision as the characters did & gave a more realistic feel of a medieval battle at night?
Yes yes it’s probably more important to set it up right though. Especially as Rone says in a light environment
Exactly, which is what the cinematographer explained in my quote.
This has been driving me mad too! There's been a few series on Netflix and other places that I wanted to watch,but just couldn't as I could hardly see anything half the time even with the curtains shut.
I have to admit our TV (nothing fancy) is as it came out the box, so I'll use that link to set up this evening. But plenty of programmes and films are absolutely fine to watch, just those moody dramas and thrillers that seem to be in a world of murk!
(something about Rubens and then multiple link fails to battle of phaeton. Nothing to see here, aptly enough)
Well my TV has had a firmware update a few minutes ago, reading the details one of the improvements is local dimming being tweaked to work better with dark scenes. Have to say it's made a very noticeable difference.
Most compression algorithms get rid of detail in the near black and near white first (similar to audio compressing the extremes more too).
I wouldn't be surprised if the Blu-Ray version of GoT looks beautiful.
I wouldn’t be surprised if the Blu-Ray version of GoT looks beautiful.
I'm not watching it now and waiting for the bluray for just that reason.
I'm in the minority of people whom didn't have a problem with th darkness of Got, or other programmes for that matter (Luther got a lot of complaints too).
I always calibrate my tv sets using proper equipment, and use different modes for time of day/type of movie etc. Game of thrones was beautiful and perfectly visible (for what the director wanted viewers to see)
He could have evolved the storytelling even more by showing us what actually happened.
I was involved in the making of a Glasgow-based horror film many moons (appropriately) ago. An early foray into shooting direct to digital with new-fangled cameras.
Unfortunately -given a very modest distribution- it meant there wasn't a physical print and not many cinemas had digital projectors that were any great shakes.
I went to see it at the GFT on their elderly Bahco video projector that was about the size of a car and had quite bleached out LCDs.
All the dark, moody, twighlghtly, action was just lost - when you've only got is dark so much light is leaking through the LCDs that 'dark' looks light - so we were just looking a dimly lit rectangle. After a short while you noticed the rest of the audience looking at each other in bemusement wondering why they were in a cinema listening to a radio play.
pity the poor fools that were watching GoT on NowTV !
