[Closed] Who knows about Caravans and Driving Licence obtained after 1997?

No you would need to sit and pass a trailer test.

"In order to do this the caravan must not have a greater M.A.M. than the unladen weight of the vehicle towing." that's the bit that prevents you from doing so in your case.

call them or your local test center just to make sure

It's never OK to tow a caravan, especially on single-carriageway roads where you cause horrendous build-ups of traffic because you drive at 27mph and don't pull over when you sense a queue behind you. And on the single-track roads of northern Scotland, it's an offence for which your mobile bungalow should be handed over to Clarkson or the Brainiac team for spectacular destruction.

yes it is .... if the caravan or trailer + its load weighs more than 750kgs you must get a trailer licence ....

very clear from what you have quoted.

That's what I thought, but, from the DVLA

Towing caravans

As for towing caravans, existing general guidance recommends that the laden weight of the caravan does not exceed 85% of the unladen weight of the car. In the majority of cases, caravans and small trailers towed by cars should be within the new category B threshold.

Sorry, crossed posts, as I read it, it says that as long as the combined weight is less than 3500kg then it's ok.

Or am I missing something?

For someone whose licence was first awarded after 01/01/97 the regulations are different in that they are not allowed to tow a vehicle that weighs more than the kerbweight of their car without taking a further test

All drivers who passed a car test before 1 January 1997[2] retain their existing entitlement to tow trailers until their licence expires. This means they are generally entitled to drive a vehicle and trailer combination up to 8.25 tonnes maximum authorised mass (MAM) without passing any special driving test.

Since 1 January 1997 all drivers who hold category C or D entitlement have been limited to trailers up to 750kgs MAM; Category C+E or D+E must be held in order to tow trailers in excess of this.

I.E. new drivers for the last 12 years have to do an additional test in order to tow anything over 750kgs. Many of these are coming up to an age where they might be thinking about getting a caravan.

Because a caravan is still a trailer.

its very well publicised that if the trailer is over 750kgs you must have a licence if yours is newer than 1997 (im in that boat). If you think what you just quoted will stand up in court then you are mistaken.

Perhaps it means if your caravan is under 750kgs (you would be surprised just how big 750kgs actually is .... i have a twin axel trailer thats 8x6 and stamped gross weight 750kg - actual weight is very light - can pick it up and turn it over with 2 people , box alloy and wooden construction. There isnt much weight in a caravan - we got a puncture on the way to strathpuffer 2 years ago and we had no jack that would work with the caravan - so 4 of us lifted one side so the other could change it - but that was a small caravan !

Not trying to find loop-holes in it all, I just don't know what's what regarding MAM's and Kerb weights etc.

I was always under the impression I would have to do a test, which having never towed anything in my life, I would want to do, or have some tuition of some kind, the problem is, that once you start looking for tuition, you realise, there isn't much about, which is what made me wonder whether I had the wrong end of the stick.

Where are you based?

Sunderland

local college do it here

for towing id reccomend some training from someone who is experianced in towing even for under 750kgs.

once you have a small wheeled trailer start dancing/weaving on you on the motorway and not been taught how to control it you will shit your self and possibly cause a serious accident.

Believe me, I have no intention of just buying something and towing it. It will probably be next spring anyhow, I just want to get all the neccesary sorted later in the year

I'll see if I know anyone that does that type of training down there.

Thanks

[url= http://www.practicalcaravan.com/legal/index.html ]http://www.practicalcaravan.com/legal/index.html[/url]

Driving Licences
A full (not provisional) driving licence is required to tow a caravan. From 1 January 1997, new category B (generally held as 'normal' car entitlement) vehicles may be coupled with a trailer up to 750kg Maximum Authorised Mass allowing a combined weight of up to 4.25 tonnes MAM OR a trailer (for example a tourer) over 750kg MAM provided the MAM of the trailer does not exceed the unladen weight of the towing vehicle, and the combination does not exceed 3.5 tonnes MAM. This would mean that many drivers who possess only a category B on their licence would be able to tow a caravan provided it was not heavier than their car, and that car and caravan combined, does not weigh more than 3.5 tonnes.
New drivers of outfits over these limits must take a category B + E test.
Further information from: Driver and Vehicle Licencing Agency (DVLA)
www.dvla.gov.uk

My car weighs 1223kg and the caravan we are looking at is 1445kg.

That "outfit" as its known in caravan terms would be illegal anyway.
Safe rule of thumb is that the caravan's MTPLM should be 85% of the car. Hence a lot of people using 4x4's to tow bigger caravans. People do tow at up to 100% quite safely, given plenty of experience, but obviously your chances of controlling it should it start snaking are reduced. There's more to it though, caravan's have to be loaded correctly & the nose-weight should be 7% or the max for the tow car. Stabilisers do help but have to be adjusted correctly.
(MTPLM = Max Technically Permissible Laden Mass.

As for the rules, basically you can drive a vehicle of up to 3500kg towing a trailer up to 750kg; or a vehicle & trailer combination totalling no more than 3500kg where the trailer does not exceed the unladen mass of the towing vehicle. So no, you wont need to take another test unless you buy a big 4x4 to tow the caravan. I'd find a smaller caravan if I were you. Look for a MTPLM of 1040kg if you stick with the car above.

[url= http://www.ukcampsite.co.uk/chatter/display_forum_topics.asp?ForumID=20&PagePosition=1&ThreadPage=1 ]UKCampsite[/url] is a good source of info.

And yes, I do have a caravan.
[head hung etc]

My car weighs 1223kg and the caravan we are looking at is 1445kg.

Think that is a problem regardless of what your licence permits.

so........ using a slightly lighter caravan.

MAM of caravan = 1184
Unladen vehicle = 1445

Combination under 3.5tonnes MAM

So the MAM does not exceed the unladen weight of the car, see how I got the 2 weights round the wrong way up there 🙂

Even more confused now, as I read that as I CAN, however, I still think I'm missing something.

Really, I'm not thick. Honest!

http://www.chevrondrivingschool.net/ describe it all clearly.

Thanks for that. I'll be quiet now.

Thanks for all your help people of STW!

That makes more sense. 1400kg would be a hell of a big caravan. Mind you 1100 is still pretty big isn't it?

B+E is a PITA, I've failed that test twice now, despite the examiner telling me that I have excellent control :/. It ain't cheap either!

1400kg would be a hell of a big caravan

yes it is .... if the caravan or trailer + its load weighs more than 750kgs you must get a trailer licence ....

very clear from what you have quoted.

Not true, re-read the DVLA rules, the 750kg limit only applies to heavier towing vehicles, the combined mass can be up to 3500kg.

[b]Cars with a maximum authorised mass of no more than 3500kg, having no more than eight passenger seats, towing a trailer up to 750kg.
A car and a trailer, where the total maximum authorised mass of both is not more than 3500kg and the maximum authorised mass of the trailer is not more than the unladen weight of the car.

For example:

A car with an unladen weight of 1.25 tonnes and a maximum authorised mass of 2 tonnes towing a trailer with a maximum authorised mass of 1.25 tonnes could be driven under category B entitlement as the maximum authorised mass of both is not more than 3.5 tonnes and the maximum authorised mass of the trailer is not more than the unladen weight of the car.[/b]

That "outfit" as its known in caravan terms would be illegal anyway.

The only rules are that the MAM of the trailer cannot exceed the unladen weight of the car, but yes, that outfit is illegal.

A Mondeo will pull that weight though, but a lot just use it as an excuse to drive an SUV.

Yes, but it's no fun and not overly safe to do so, an SUV with that sort of mass behind it bearly even notices it's there. I've towed a 1700kg trailer with a 535i and it's OK but clearly "upset" by the mass at the back when braking etc. Tow the same trailer on a landcruiser colorado and you bearly even know the trailer is following, it brakes and handles the same as normal. Plus you dont scrape the hitch on the floor over every crest and bump in a field.

Plus the Mondeo won't cope well on wet grass and even slight inclines!

Oh dear... The caravan weighs more than the car.... So really you're not going to be towing the caravan, the caravan is going to be towing you!

As said by a few members a few times, your caravan shouldnt be more than 85% weight of the car. Otherwise you're gonna get big problems braking, cross winds and going up hills. It may not be illegal, but its damn stupid to tow a trailer heavier than your car.

I must say the way the laws/rules are written, it really does cause confussion. I got well confused when looking at towing a 8ft wide caravan.

landcruiser colorado

Proper off-roader innit. Will be designed with some towing in mind.

It's tempting to go for a SUV and run it on bio to offset the carbon problems. But then, a car running on bio is greener still. Bah!

If you re-read further up, you'll notice I cocked up and mixed the weight of the caravan and car up 🙂

Trailer licensing is an arse for those who do a lot of towing, I've had to do mine in the last year to get out of towing on L-plates all the time with a passenger who holds the entitlement but no ability as I did with my last employer. Must have done 10,000 towing miles that way and perfected drifting the works discovery and 16' trailer across the showground.

Would advise the biggest weight advantage over what you're towing, that and good loading will reduce the chances of snaking. An advantage of 4x4's is that if you do a lot of towing work, the low ratio box will reduce clutch wear when manouvering.

Worst trailer incident we had was a driver with automatic entitlement, we spun, rolled and then flipped over a hedge into a field on Bodmin Moor off the A30, tow vehicle was the boss's and only 3 weeks old, oops.