Utter bollocks.
A few older models didn’t have enough ram to run the newer firmware so they were moved sideways and they still work fine using a different version of the Sonos app. A friend still runs both systems in different parts of his house.
Not entirely bollocks, they did start by bricking them after they'd been used in their upgrade scheme, but after lots of pressure backed down. You can now use an old product to get an upgrade discount, and still continue to use it.
Utter bollocks.
A few older models didn’t have enough ram to run the newer firmware so they were moved sideways and they still work fine using a different version of the Sonos app. A friend still runs both systems in different parts of his house.
If you are going to challenge something, it really does pay to spend a few moments researching it, in order to prevent looking foolish, and seeming rude:
https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2020/03/sonos-backtracks-on-bricking-your-trade-ins-will-allow-reuse/
I appreciate this may not have featured in Sonos' truly excellent marketing.
Alternatively, have a look at the Wiim AMP. All the features of Wiim + 60w into 8ohms class D amp. It’s getting some really good reviews and nothing really close in terms of price – you’d have to start looking at a Bluesound Powernode which is probably double the price of the Wiim amp.
I have the Bluesound Node, which is recognised as one of the best streamer/DACs without spending silly money. The Wiim Pro Plus does seem excellent value, I'd perhaps have gone for that instead had I been aware of it when I bought the Node. The Node does have extra features such as HDMI connection, a headphone socket and a subwoofer output, if that's your thing. But yes, a lot more expensive. Whether or not it actually sounds better is probably beyond most people's hearing capability. The Wiim mini does seem an excellent product though I have to say. <br /><br />Regarding the Yamaha; I know one person who uses one and likes it, seems to have had no problems, and someone else who has the mini streaming amplifier, WXA-50 I think, and enjoys that a lot. I'm not aware of connection issues personally. The WXAD-10 is an older device, so perhaps the Wiim Mini is a better bet.
It's all pretty academic when the OP wrote 'not Sonos' multiple times in their post, but we all know the importance of correcting someone on the internet who is wrong (insert xkcd reference here).
If you are going to challenge something, it really does pay to spend a few moments researching it, in order to prevent looking foolish, and seeming rude
I'm just sharing my first hand experience as a Sonos owner who was keeping a close eye on things when they hit a rough patch with older hardware.
Now, as for calling my post foolish, let me set the record straight. What I said is true. Sonos didn't simply brick those older systems; they just stopped sending them updates and firmware. So, if you had an older device, it eventually wouldn't play nicely with the newer stuff. Yeah, Sonos could've handled it better, but they did give us a choice, and that still holds true with lots of older systems still kicking around.
And this kind of thing isn't unique to Sonos. Look at some older Apple watches – they've hit a point where they're just not as functional anymore (if at all). Sonos, to their credit, eventually came up with a workaround to keep those older systems working ...... they just needed showing what they needed to do.
Not entirely bollocks, they did start by bricking them after they’d been used in their upgrade scheme
Yes they did - but the owners had a choice, rathr like the car scrappage scheme etc.
EDIT: your own contradiction renders it unnecessary to continue with any pointless argument.
------------------------------------
Regarding powered speakers v wi-fi streaming ones; the former will probably be more useable long term, as they won't be reliant on software/firmware updates, and can simply be used with whatever streaming device you chose. It is a way to get round needing a separate amp, all you'd need is a small streamer like the Wiim mini. However, packing more components into a speaker cabinet is going to either compromise the sound quality, or cost quite a lot. When saving space/volume, you're going to encounter a compromise of some sort along the way, sonically or economically. Personally, the powered/active speakers I've heard have sounded better overall than most wifi/BT speakers, which are generally aimed more for 'casual' listening in acoustically sub-optimal environments. I'm not so familiar with some of the newer brands, but I do know that Ruark, KEF, JBL, Acoustic Energy and Klipsch are well known for outstanding loudspeaker designs, and having heard examples from those brands, they would be on my list of considerations. Possibly over budget though. To obtain audio quality comparable to a good amp/speaker set up, you may need to invest a little more. And that's the compromise there. That said, Richer sounds appear to have a good selection around the £400 mark, which leaves room for the wireless streamer device.
If you're considering the Wiim streamer and you need an amp anyway then I'd suggest looking at the cunningly named Wiim Amp which has all of it in one box for £299. Pretty neat and IIRC its bluetooth remote control so can stash it away. Its also got eArc HDMI so can take input from TV. Don't think it has phono input though.
I use these in my small home office / music room. Bluetooth from the phone or laptop, sound good, not expensive.
Interesting to see this thread - like someone above, I bought into Sonos a few years after Squeezebox stopped being supported (as an aside, I recently bought an old Squeezebox, and the hassle of trying to get my old NAS back online to run the LMS software etc quickly made me realise they may not have been all that great...).
My Sonos system is probably about 80% reliable. It's annoying just how frequently I fire up the Sonos app and it takes a good 2 minutes of thinking to find the system at all. One of the Sonos Play 1s in the office completely spat the dummy though, and had to be factory reset and added back to the system - and wouldn't even factory reset until it was plugged in by ethernet.
Currently I have all of them connected to the Wifi via a pretty robust mesh system. Interesting point that one of them should be connected by ethernet though, so I might try that.
The key for me really is that it's not quite as plug and play as it should be, and the sound is a little hemmed in; but it's still by far the best multi-room wireless music system, and offers levels of integration - and sound quality - that I haven't found in any other system, including Google's own. There's no alternative for me!
Interesting point that one of them should be connected by ethernet though, so I might try that.
I think it used to be the case that one HAD to be wired, but not anymore. I think it’s still recommended though.
Help a luddite, please... I have record player in our lounge which is connected to some speakers in the good old fashioned way. I would like to stream music from it to our Kitchen.
If I bought a Wiim Pro/Pro Plus and connected my turntable to that, do I just need a WiFi enabled speaker in the Kitchen?? Something like a Denon Home 150.
Annoyingly, I used to have a Bose Soundlink Air and sold as it was getting no use, I now wonder if that would have connected (not sure if it was AirPlay 2 or if that mattered).
If I bought a Wiim Pro/Pro Plus and connected my turntable to that, do I <em style="box-sizing: border-box; --tw-translate-x: 0; --tw-translate-y: 0; --tw-rotate: 0; --tw-skew-x: 0; --tw-skew-y: 0; --tw-scale-x: 1; --tw-scale-y: 1; --tw-scroll-snap-strictness: proximity; --tw-ring-offset-width: 0px; --tw-ring-offset-color: #fff; --tw-ring-color: rgb(59 130 246 / 0.5); --tw-ring-offset-shadow: 0 0 #0000; --tw-ring-shadow: 0 0 #0000; --tw-shadow: 0 0 #0000; --tw-shadow-colored: 0 0 #0000; caret-color: #000000; color: #000000; font-family: Roboto, 'Helvetica Neue', Arial, 'Noto Sans', sans-serif, -apple-system, BlinkMacSystemFont, 'Segoe UI', 'Apple Color Emoji', 'Segoe UI Emoji', 'Segoe UI Symbol', 'Noto Color Emoji';">just need a WiFi enabled speaker in the Kitchen?? Something like a Denon Home 150.
EDIT: Actually I don't know. Do you not need a separate Wiim for each speaker you want to play from?
Help a luddite, please… I have record player in our lounge which is connected to some speakers in the good old fashioned way. I would like to stream music from it to our Kitchen.
I think you need two things. Your turntable plugged into a Wiim Pro - pro has an input.
That acts as the base, allowing you to send whatever's played on the turntable to other Wiim devices via your wi-fi.
So you would need another Wiim in your kitchen that's connected to some speakers.
If these are powered speakers ie they need to be plugged into mains, this could be a Wiim Mini (£80ish).
If they're normal speakers, you would also need an amp to plug the Mini into.
Alternatively, you could just use a Wiim Amp.
Not what you are asking but if a turntable has pre amp it can be plugged into a Audio Pro speaker and then play through the speaker and also run as stereo pairs and multi room. We have this setup and it is nice to have the records playing elsewhere in the house.
Yeah, I guess I was wondering if you need a Wiim in each room. What about if the speaker was AirPlay 2?
Yeah, I guess I was wondering if you need a Wiim in each room. What about if the speaker was AirPlay 2?
Looks like that would work fine, based on this.
So you'd just need a WiimPro.
So you’d just need a WiimPro.
Depending on the record deck it may/may not need a phono stage as well, some amps have them built in, some descks do. Wiim Pro does not.
Similar experience with Sonos here - unreliable. And again, the fact that everything else works fine on wifi means I gave up pandering to them. Heaven forbid if you change your wifi network!
Am fed up with streaming too, so have reverted to a nice (recommended) Ruark MR1 setup in my lounge. Plays bluetooth from laptop or phone (so all my own digital music) and have a record player hooked up too (Rega P1 Plus) which is lovely. I'm not an audiophile but it works perfectly and I love putting a record on.
In the kitchen I've got a Radio/CD player/Bluetooth speaker combo which again just works. And given it has to compete with kettle, extractor, cooking, cat, etc, it's fine.
Thanks all for the replies, some interesting stuff in it. In second place were HomePods but I’ve decided to try some Edifiers on the basis that they;
1) aren’t that expensive so if I don’t like them I won’t have lost much
2) if they are good they maybe ideal for our place in Ireland which has no Wi-Fi or indeed phone signal
3) they may be easier to hook my record player up to than HomePods
If I manage to sneak the record player back into the lounge past Mrs K (she has a dislike of cables, but has turned half the room into an office, and got a reformer stashed in it, so she is in no position to argue now (marriage is just a series of skirmishes innit), I may upgrade the speakers later.
And at least we all finally agreed that Sonos is shit 😉
Thanks all for the replies, some interesting stuff in it. In second place were HomePods but I’ve decided to try some Edifiers on the basis that they;
1) aren’t that expensive so if I don’t like them I won’t have lost much
2) if they are good they maybe ideal for our place in Ireland which has no Wi-Fi or indeed phone signal
3) they may be easier to hook my record player up to than HomePods <br /><br /><br />
Fair comments. Particularly the last point; Homepods are not easily connectable to anything else. If you don't need/want the voice control thing, then the Edifiers are a lot cheaper. Homepods do work brilliantly with an Apple ecosystem though; seamlessly switch between speakers as you choose, and can switch from using Airpods to the Homepod, simply by tapping the latter with your iPhone. Plus lots of other Apple Homekit functionality.
<br />And at least we all finally agreed that Sonos is shit 😉
I wouldn't go quite that far. My personal view is that Sonos is a very well marketed brand (evidently), but ultimately that they are overpriced style over substance 'lifestyle' audio products. They are probably an excellent choice for someone not particularly concerned with fidelity, who just wants a simple fuss-free system. I'd sum up the brand as 'disappointing'.
Just bare in mind I don't think the Edifiers have Phono inputs, just RCA/stereo line in.
So the speakers arrived first thing this morning and within five minutes of opening the box they were up and running. Initial verdict is that they’re easily as good as the Sonos sound wise and just worked, no doubt I’m missing some subtlety in response and sub-woofer performance that make the tunes come alive but for a system that plays music easily they are spot on. Minor niggle could do with longer speaker cable to link the two but that’s an easy fix.
Just bare in mind I don’t think the Edifiers have Phono inputs, just RCA/stereo line in.<br /><br />
Yes that’s correct. I went and looked at my turntable and amp after ordering the speakers and the amp was covered in dust and the power lead had gone awol - which is no surprise as they hadn’t been used for about eighteen years. As I wanted to test the turntable i decided to order a Behringer PP400 phono amp for twenty quid and that turned up a few hours after the speakers. Again five minutes and that was all plugged in and a first spin of a record in a long time. Sound quality was a bit meh compared to the Bluetooth earlier but I was a bit rushed so didn’t have time to clean the record, check the stylus and the arm settings or do anything really. I think I’ll try the proper amp and see how that gets on during the week.
Dodgy set up picture;
Obviously it had to be a special record for the first spin and it was a rare / unusual 7” version of Body of an American by The Pogues (not the Poguetry in Motion ep, but a DJ single version). Happy days 🙂
Good point!!! I’ve been a long time out of the hifi game 🙂
My brother is a semi-professional record dealer so I’ve asked for recommendations for record cleaning kit and I’ll spend some time on cleaning set up, etc during the week.
I want to see if the amp is still working so may just stick some headphones in it, seems a shame to just leave it gathering dust when it was a big purchase for me bitd (£180 iirc).
Sorry.
but you can’t stream audio over Bluetooth<br /><br />
You can, but it won’t be Lossless, the bitrate can’t cope, same as any wireless BT earphones/headphones. HomePods use AirPlay, so can play Lossless. I’m toying with the idea of getting a pair.
Sorry.
Made me laugh, that meme. A friend of mine once wired two of his audiophile dad's amplifiers together to 'make the speakers louder'. Then cranked the volume up to maximum. Following the big pop, his mum sent him over to some relatives to stay for a couple of days until his dad calmed down. He didn't get his BMX that Christmas.
HomePods use AirPlay, so can play Lossless. I’m toying with the idea of getting a pair.
I'd say go for it. You can often find 1st generation models for good prices on Ebay. White ones tend to go for less as they get grubby and you can't clean them really. But the sound of a stereo pair is excellent for what they are, in a smaller space. Better than say Sonos Ones etc. If you have an Apple TV then you can use the Homepods as the TV speakers, with Dolby Atmos if the content you are playing supports it.
I was thinking about this a bit more last night (probably not a good thing) I was going to use the dedicated tape recorder line out on the amp to go to the speaker line in rather than wiring the speakers into the speaker outputs on the amp, would that still be a risk? (Though I suspect I’ll not actually bother trying as the sound quality was a lot better when I had time to play with it all last night and I don’t want to blow up the speakers.)
You can, but it won’t be Lossless, the bitrate can’t cope, same as any wireless BT earphones/headphones. HomePods use AirPlay, so can play Lossless. I’m toying with the idea of getting a pair.
I think you are replying to me saying Homepods can't stream music to Homepods via Bluetooth? You really can't. While you're toying with getting a pair, I have eight of them to test my hypothesis on 😉
