This morning I made the mistake of trying to use my Sonos one speakers, obviously the fact that my wife turned the Wi-Fi router off for five minutes a week ago meant that I was destined to failure. You can never just use the things, it’s always a ball-ache of some sort with them. After twenty minutes ****ing around and swearing whilst trying to connect with them I have thrown them into the front garden for any passer by to take, so I need new speakers.
Specs;
Not Sonos
I probably would like a pair
They won’t be moved around the house,
I don’t, and won’t be subscribing to Spotify etc, I want to play the music on my iPad, iPhone and laptop
Mainly indie music, occasional dub, dance and traditional Irish to be played
Not Sonos
I don’t want a separate amp (well I do and to reconnect my turntable but I’ve been told that’s not happening!!!)
Price wise, not silly money, is under £500 realistic
Not Sonos
Any suggestions?
I don't own them but Q Acoustics M20 or Elac Debut Connex DCB41 are well rated 'active' speakers. I know you mentioned an Amp and separate speakers are unlikely but you could probably get a Loxjie A40 (cracking 'small' amp with phono input) for around 200 and then pick some decent bookshelf/standmount passive speakers for under 300 for a next level system. I have the Loxjie A30 (no board phono stage) and it's great with Wharfedale Evo 4.1 speaker. Hope that helps?
Apple HomePods sound ideal, just work.
pick size depending on ego/roomsize.
I guess the worry would be you replace your Sonos's and find that you have the same issue? I've got sonos all over the house and it's rock solid, all of the time. I've got a good wifi mesh network though. I've heard good things about Sonos support - you can send them diagnostics and they'll figure out what is going on and what you can try.
That said, if you aren't bothered about multi-room audio or streaming apps* then probably anything by Samsung, Google, Amazon or Apple would be worth a go?
p.s. Please can I have your Sonos?
I do own the Q acoustics M20s, they are excellent sounding things. I have them hooked up to a wiim pro, which I can connect my turntable to and cast that to other wiim pros. The software works well (provided a strong WiFi signal).
There is also the wiim amp, small, under budget by a margin and it'll let you connect your deck. Would need speakers adding though.
Sonos.
They work well even if the WiFi has been off.
Not in my house they don’t anymore, garden wall bingo and they’ve gone in under ten minutes. Probably taken by a local fox who will try and eat them or shag them but never be stupid enough to try and play music through them.
I used to have some problems with sonos, but not for a while now. I had assumed they had perhaps fixed some bugs in a firmware update about 12 months ago. Of course it could also have been an update to my wireless router that fixed the problems.
The fox is very cunning so will have a plan, it’ll know how to get them to sync in a few minutes.
Apple HomePods sound ideal, just work.
Yes, if you have an Apple system. Near faultless. Excellent sound quality from such small speakers too. For your budget, two older first generation Homepods could be got, leaving you with quite a bit left over. I haven't heard anything in the new versions to convince me they're actually any better . Better Siri functionality is all I can deduce really.
<br /><br />Sonos is the most solid I’ve owned<br /><br />
I've tried pretty much everything Sonos have made, even owned some of it, and I've been disappointed with all of it. Sound quality isn't anywhere near what I'd expect for the money, and reliability/connectivity is far from 'solid', I found. Very much style over substance in my opinion. <br /><br /><br />
I don’t want a separate amp (well I do and to reconnect my turntable but I’ve been told that’s not happening!!!)
Price wise, not silly money, is under £500 realistic
For that sort of money, if you want sound quality, then a traditional amp and speaker set up is going to be far superior to any fancy wi-fi speakers. For that budget, I'd be going second hand and getting an old NAD, Cambridge Audio or similar, and some B+W 601s perhaps. That would leave you with enough to buy a wireless streamer. Scour Ebay for something like a Yamaha WXAD-10. You can then add that to any regular amp and enable wi-fi music streaming. Even an old Apple Airport Express (Gen 2) will do the job. An Apple TV will also provide audio output via a digital output, but you'd need an amp with digital inputs for that. Such things work with Airplay 2, which I find to be very reliable indeed, better than anything else I've tried. For Windows use, a Google Chromecast Audio would do a good job, if you can find one on Ebay. <br /><br />The rationale for this is that modern wi-fi/digital etc devices tend to work well for a while, then inevitably succumb to the curse of modern obsolescence, so won't be update-able and incompatible with computer/device OS updates. So you're then left with devices that could work perfectly well, but won't. More landfill. I believe Sonos even deliberately bricked some of their older devices via a software update, in a bid to get people to buy new Sonos gear. This is another reason I will never buy anything from that brand again.
Not wireless speakers, but I like my Ruark MR1 speakers. Happily streams Bluetooth from my phone. Also has optical and aux in so you can connect your deck and has sub out if you want something with more oomph. They don't do streaming apart from through your phone.
How do you want to play music through them? Wifi? Bluetooth? Wired?
Klipsch Fives or Sevens are rather nice sounding.
Alternatively, you could pick ANY speakers, ANY amp and get something like a Wiim Mini which would give you bluetooth streaming and you can connect streaming services and streamed internet radio. Maybe a trip to Richer Sounds is on the cards? (They still exist, right?). 200 for amp, 200 for speakers, wiim mini and some speaker cable. Job done.
I'd go Google speakers.
https://store.google.com/category/nest_speakers?hl=en-GB
The Apple ones only work from Apple devices, so not great if you want to use non-Apple products. Google work on Android, Apple or even a Chrome browser, so pretty much anything mobile.
The speakers can be set up as stereo pairs. And you can talk to them to make them play stuff, like an Amazon Echo.
They do just work.
Money-wise, the mini's are regularly £35 each, so almost disposable if you want to give it a try and see just how reliable they are. Sound OK for the price too. Bigger ones can be had for around £75 when on offer. Their displays also have speakers so can play music as part of your network if you want.
The app is OK, and you can group like you would Sonos, but not quite as user friendly. But they do just work.
Overlooked by purists, but as a convenient way to have sound follow you round, they are pretty good.
Sonos here too, also rock solid. I have fibre into the house and my 2 of my 5's in the living room are on the ethernet. Mix of speakers around the house.
My set up was a little flakey to start off but I changed the WiFi for Sonos to 13 as this has little interfence from other devices.
Ta will have a plough through suggestions later.
The Wi-Fi is fine with everything else and the speakers were probably only 20’ away from the router in open plan downstairs.
I still have my second gen Mission Cyrus one amp (and an ariston q deck with a gold ring 1012gx stylus) in the spare room it’s just not been used for about 15 years) if I wanted to go old school and speaker cables.
A pair of Ultimate Ears Booms? You’d have change from your ~£500 budget. They’re small, make an OK sound and older models can be gotten cheap. No fancy stuff - just Bluetooth connection and their app to pair them up as a stereo pair or double speaker.
Though for £500 I’d be looking more to an AVR and some used wired speakers to leave the door open to that phono stage you have in mind.
Edit - ignore that wired blather. I saw you have some old school tech you’re holding off using.
How about a soundbar? There were a few sub-£500 options in that thread if I remember correctly. It might provide the convenience of a wireless small speaker set up but with more versatility? There might even be Airplay compatible ones that might be a better option than Bluetooth for your iPhone and iPad listening.
Have a loook at some of these: https://www.edifier.online/collections/2-0-bookshelf?sort_by=price-descending
I swapped Sonos for AudioPro. It’s all personal but, for me they can’t be beaten on sound quality for the price. Get a Drumfire or stretch the budget and get two as a stereo pair!
I’ve got a pair of speakers (A26) in the room for TV and music duties plus a C5 in the kitchen and C3 upstairs. The A26 got a bad review from What Hi-Fi that really doesn’t tally with my listening experience. I don’t think they broke them in tbh. The C5 have won lots of awards. All their range come with lots of inputs too.
Alternatively, you could pick ANY speakers, ANY amp and get something like a Wiim Mini which would give you bluetooth streaming and you can connect streaming services and streamed internet radio. Maybe a trip to Richer Sounds is on the cards? (They still exist, right?). 200 for amp, 200 for speakers, wiim mini and some speaker cable. Job done.
Yes! I hadn't seen the Wiim streamers, I'm a bit behind the times on such devices. I see they also do a Wiim Pro and Pro Plus which offer upgraded DACs. But the basic version looks perfect for a simple home set up. Richer Sounds is a good call; they often do some really good deals with an amp + speakers etc, if you go in store.
Worth remembering that Wi-Fi will offer better audio quality than most Bluetooth set ups, as you get uncompressed audio data streaming. And that many lower end streaming amplifiers are fairly mediocre units with a hefty price tag.
How about a soundbar?
I've yet to hear a soundbar which actually offers decent sound quality. Such devices use fancy audio processing tricks, but the basic fact is that you cannot get 'big' sound out of such tiny speakers, and if you want any bass at all (for eg Dub),then you'll then be needing a subwoofer. The problems with using subs with tiny speakers in soundbars etc is that you can end up with a bit of a 'hole' where the midrange once was. Of course, small 3-4" drivers aren't going to create big sound either, but 5-6" and up, and you get a noticeable improvement in sound reproduction quality. For the average home living room, 5-6" drivers are normally ample. For larger rooms, go with speakers with larger drivers. It's all about pushing air. Larger drivers can be more efficient, so you get that 'big' sound without needing to turn the volume up much.
The Apple ones only work from Apple devices, so not great if you want to use non-Apple products.
Nope, the HomePods broadcast as Bluetooth devices as well as AirPlay so anything can connect to them.
Bit over budget but two of the bigger ones paired as stereo should deal with practically all room sizes. (I’ve got mini’s and they are plenty loud enough for my bijou residence)
Yamaha wxad10 gets a mention above, in my personal experience, crapper than Sonos for connectivity. I tried a lot of things to solve problems with them, but they were garbage compared to the wiims.
Ruark MR1 also gets a mention, amazing speakers, love mine.
And just to backtrack slightly, as @mattyfez mentions, Edifer do some cracking Bluetooth speaker that are nice and simple to connect to.
My lad has these and I can assure that they are quite loud and lovely sound.
Alexa speakers struggle to get all together occasionally so not those.
If they don't need to move, wired in ceiling speakers with a hidden wifi amp somewhere? Will always be working well. Good deals around on things like monitor audio
I fancy a pair of Kef LS60 in blue
Some mentions of HomePods up there ^^^ - if you do go down that route you can play pretty much anything through them from another device but just be aware that voice control via siri can be patchy. There's some guy with a song called '6music' on iTunes who must be making a killing* on streaming revenue.
* relatively speaking. Probably a couple of mars bars a month ot something.
I have those edifier speakers mentioned just up by there and a Wiim (not pro). Very happy with it, the wiim will play streaming services and live radio (not bbc sounds though) plus will link to my home server which has all my digitised cds, when set up as a minidlna server. The latter is really easy, you could set up any computer to do it. And the speakers are better than I need for keeping me company in the kitchen when I am cooking. I will ptobably get another wiim to put in the living room.
From my experience of Audiopro - a pair of C10's
The Wi-Fi is fine with everything else and the speakers were probably only 20’ away from the router in open plan downstairs.
Doesn't mean anything. Even if you wifi is fine with everything else it doesn't mean it's up to scratch for the demands of a wireless speaker system. I used to have multi-acesss point wifi that was fine with everything else but used to be a bit glitchy with my Homepods. Went mesh and never looked back. Works perfectly with 11 Sonos speakers and 8 Homepods now.
Nope, the HomePods broadcast as Bluetooth devices as well as AirPlay so anything can connect to them.
They may broadcast their presence via Bluetooth but you can't stream audio over Bluetooth. They do do direct wifi connection so you can connect from phone to Homepod without the presence of a wifi network.
Doesn’t mean anything. Even if you wifi is fine with everything else it doesn’t mean it’s up to scratch for the demands of a wireless speaker system.
I’m no Wi-Fi expert unfortunately but if the two speakers can’t cope with 20’ distance, in the same room with line of sight between the two, wifi seems a bit of a waste of time.
Nope, the HomePods broadcast as Bluetooth devices as well as AirPlay so anything can connect to them.
They may broadcast their presence via Bluetooth but you can’t stream audio over Bluetooth. They do do direct wifi connection so you can connect from phone to Homepod without the presence of a wifi network.
Well, there's a thing. I stand corrected. Thanks @Timmys
Must have got confused when pondering connecting them up to the TV and the low level digging I did must have been via an AppleTV that I don't have.
i’ve found the latest Sonos Amp to be rock solid. My older Play Ones come and go on the App, especially in stereo pairs. my phone is pretty random. The Amp through decent speakers is a great device. I have a Gen1 Play 5 gathering dust, and two Play 3’s shortly off to pastures new.
Moved to Sonos 9 years ago after Squeezebox was killed off and I’ve now got 8 Sonos players.
Generally it’s all been rock solid over that time, I think the key is to run Ethernet to at least a few players, all but 2 of mine are plugged in.
I do have an issue that started recently with a Connect that keeps dropping out, I *might* have fixed it and if so I’m a happy Sonos user again.
Audio pro here, a36s and a48s. They don't sell direct to uk as their outlet sales are c 50% off. Really nice sound and just 1 interlinking cable between the speakers.
Yes, we have a Sonos soundbar in one room and two old Ones in the kitchen. A tech bod advised me to plug one unit into ethernet, which we did on the soundbar. Somehow it makes the connections of all three just work.
A tech bod advised me to plug one unit into ethernet, which we did on the soundbar. Somehow it makes the connections of all three just work.<br /><br />
If you plug one (or more) in then Sonos creates a mesh network (Sonos Net) between themselves. If you don’t plug one in then all speakers have to connect to your WiFi. At least I think that’s how it works.
Wiim works really well. Saves a lot of faffing around with wifi speakers.
Just plug it into whatever you already have - amp/speakers or powered speakers.
The cheapest one works fine and reviews suggest there's very little difference in quality compared to the more expensive version.
Wrt to wiim
The cheapest one works fine
It does, but Chromecast only works on the pro and up and I wanted to sync BBC sounds running around the house so out went the minis and in with the pros (I have 3).
I have a pair of Bluesound Flex 2i active speakers in the kitchen. You can stream to them (Spotify, Tidal, everything) or use internet radio, or plug a USB drive in and listen to FLAC files of your CDs. Fine for a kitchen. Just bought a third for the dining room. BluOS app controls it and is a decent app.
I'd thoroughly recommend a set of good powered or active stereo speakers. A few have been mentioned already e.g Edifier. There are tonnes of good ones out there now.
Elipson Facet 6b BT are what I got. They are quality hifi speakers and they even have a phono stage for your turntable.
You'd need something else to stream from your computers if they don't have Bluetooth though, unless you do that through your phone.
Second hand Naim Muso or Kef LSX. Use Bluetooth or plug in with cable if you can’t manage WiFi. Sometimes Airplay and streamers do hiccup for no good reason. If you just want to listen to a song quickly it’s nice to be able to have backup within seconds.
I’ve got a Naim MUSO . Had no end of trouble with it. It wouldn’t connect to the wifi, couldn’t control it properly. Was ready to chuck this £1,300 speaker in the bin.
Upgraded my WiFi to mesh and not a single problem. Can control it anywhere in the house and it’s faultless . I really didn’t think it was my wifi causing te issues but it was
I guess the worry would be you replace your Sonos’s and find that you have the same issue? I’ve got sonos all over the house and it’s rock solid, all of the time
This for me (in two houses)
I believe Sonos even deliberately bricked some of their older devices via a software update, in a bid to get people to buy new Sonos gear.
Utter bollocks.
A few older models didn't have enough ram to run the newer firmware so they were moved sideways and they still work fine using a different version of the Sonos app. A friend still runs both systems in different parts of his house.
Yes! I hadn’t seen the Wiim streamers, I’m a bit behind the times on such devices. I see they also do a Wiim Pro and Pro Plus which offer upgraded DAC
I think the DAC in the mini and the Pro are the same - upgraded in the Pro+ I believe.
Alternatively, have a look at the Wiim AMP. All the features of Wiim + 60w into 8ohms class D amp. It's getting some really good reviews and nothing really close in terms of price - you'd have to start looking at a Bluesound Powernode which is probably double the price of the Wiim amp.
I use my mini for streaming BBC radio 1 / Xtra / 6music and it works very well. I also use Spotify on my phone and stream via the Wiim. Was sub $100 in Aus so I'm guessing around 50-60 quid UK price.
Yamaha wxad10 gets a mention
I find these run incredibly hot. Yes, I live in Australia. But worked in a hifi shop over Christmas 2022 - air con blasting in the shop and you could literally feel the heat when you walked past one of these Yammy's. Maybe a little dated now - I think you can get better for less now.
