[Closed] Where's the STW summer budget thread?

everyone - Member

I just wonder why you're getting so het up about something that's going to have minimal impact in your lives

Because we're not ****s, basically. Are we only allowed to want what makes things better for ourselves, or to complain about what cuts us personally? Jog on.

Sky News being in no way biased with it's reporting of "the key points".

[url= https://uk.finance.yahoo.com/news/budget-key-points-know-111606650.html?vp=1 ]https://uk.finance.yahoo.com/news/budget-key-points-know-111606650.html?vp=1[/url]

It's not even factually correct!

"Tax-free personal allowance to be raised to £11,000 next year - boosting wages by £900"

What? the current Tax Free Personal Allowance is £10,800 meaning those earning more than £11k a year, will now avoid tax on £200 of it, at 20% - which will save you £40 a year, £3.33 a month.

"Higher rate of income tax threshold raised to £43,000" from £42,385 - meaning if you earn more than £43k a year, you'll pay 20% on £615 of it, instead of 40% or £123 a year, £10.25 plus the £3.33 so a grand total of £13.58 a month.

Try as I might, I can't make any of those figures add up to the £900 in their vague, but nice sounding headline.

Living Wage Foundation says:

“Is this really a Living Wage? The Living Wage is calculated according to the cost of living whereas the Low Pay Commission calculates a rate according to what the market can bear. Without a change of remit for the Low Pay Commission this is effectively a higher National Minimum Wage and not a Living Wage."

Hang on, how many of you self title middle class whiney c*ockbags are actually on minimum wage?

I'm not trying to argue the rights or wrongs of it I just wonder why you're getting so het up about something that's going to have minimal impact in your lives (yes I'm aware that it might impact on some of you due to being an employer/being on min. wage, I'm talking about the other middle class whiney ones)

Some of us have worked minimum wage jobs in the past? And have class allegiances?

Yeah... why would we give a flying **** about anyone else other than ourselves?

There's no such thing as society, after all eh?

I wonder who you voted for?

It was only a question, no need for that sort of vehement response. Now, do you need a stepladder to get down from that horse or do you think you can be a brave boy and manage all by yourself?

Oh and I voted Labour btw, so you can funk off with your stereotypes.

Some of us have worked minimum wage jobs in the past?

Same here, and it's nice to see that it's getting increased (whether it's in line with the increases in food/bills/housing etc are another story) but since it doesn't effect me or my gf then I take less of an interest in it than other things that do have an impact.

Northwind - Member

everyone - Member

I just wonder why you're getting so het up about something that's going to have minimal impact in your lives

Because we're not ****s.

Exactly, some of us really believe in society, and not 'grab what you can and **** everyone else.'.

Hang on, how many of you self title middle class whiney c*ockbags are actually on minimum wage?

Some of us prefer to be known as German Apologists.

And no, not on the minimum wage.

[quote=everyone said]
Oh and I voted Labour btw, so you can funk off with your stereotypes.

😆

Yay 1% max rise a year for the next 4 years.

everyone - Member

It was only a question, no need for that sort of vehement response.

Yep, it's not like you dismissed people as being whiny middle class cockbags is it? Oh no wait.

Yep, it's not like you dismissed people as being whiny middle class cockbags is it? Oh no wait.

The majority of the damn forum calls itself that for crying out loud!

Yeah, but its like the N word. We're allowed to use it to refer to ourselves! You're not 😉

Anyway... I'm authentic northern working class scum. Don't be calling me middle class. Though I am a whiney cockbag 😀

Yay 1% max rise a year for the next 4 years.

What's the current rate of inflation?

Would you prefer a 6% pay rise and 5% inflation I wonder? Would that sound better?

As already pointed out, them in the public sector who are on or around minimum wage will be getting a 10% pay rise, that's a good thing innit? Those worse off than you are getting your pay rise, isn't that how it's supposed to work?

It's a whiny middle class cockbag thing. You wouldn't understand.

Osbourne announces that anyone receiving disability benefit can now be legally hunted by Non Doms for sport.

[img] [/img]

That image is genuinelly really, really disturbing. He gets more like Steve Bells portayal of him by the day...

[img] [/img]

Good summary in the Grauniad

He has used the first budget of the new parliament to establish a second important untruth. Namely, that poverty in Britain is in some curious sense the product of the government having given poor people too much money. As the chancellor savaged family tax credits, he was shameless in skating over how these are in fact the building blocks for the Tories’ own universal credit, which he is undermining before it has even got going. He was shameless, too, in forgetting how he himself had – during the days when David Cameron’s Tories were still interested in projecting a moderate face – felt it necessary to increase the main tax credit rate to protect poor children. Now the credits were presented, plain and simple, as the wicked legacy of Gordon Brown, which ensnared the poor in a hideous system of bureaucracy.

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2015/jul/08/budget-2015-verdict-writers-george-osborne

Hang on, how many of you self title middle class whiney c*ockbags are actually on minimum wage?

I'm not trying to argue the rights or wrongs of it I just wonder why you're getting so het up about something that's going to have minimal impact in your lives (yes I'm aware that it might impact on some of you due to being an employer/being on min. wage, I'm talking about the other middle class whiney ones)

Are there any Tories here today?

Those worse off than you are getting your pay rise, isn't that how it's supposed to work?

No, I'd prefer to be able to employ good teachers to replace those leaving the job in huge numbers. All schools around me are really struggling to get enough teachers let alone good ones.

Yup ^

Are there any Tories here today?

They're all at Wimbledon, no one in the City works in the summer!

@ everyone " I voted Labour btw, so you can funk off with your stereotypes "
Ah a #redtory 🙂

Err. If minimum wage is, £7 ph and "she" works 45 hours a week. Then if it goes up to £9 ph, a weekly difference of £90.
Then that £90 pw is going to sink the business? Or the business makes less than 5k profit a year??

The business loses money through the winter and makes money in the summer. It's a sideline for me, so doesn't need to make money, but I'm not doing it for fun. It's only been going for 18 months, so the next 6 months will determine whether or not I continue. With a crap exchange rate to China (USD) and an increasingly competetive online market compared to a bricks and mortar outlet, if I paid her an extra £80/90 p/w, the business would close and she would be in the situation she was before I employed her. I've no idea what her disposable income was before I gave her a job, but she's told me, she is much happier working for me than she was before.

Yes, this is just a snapshot of what goes on with my tiny business, but I'd hate to rely on retail for a living and I don't blame the government for that.

Well with Harriet caught a little off guard today she can at least come here for inspiration and ideas.

Pay rise capped at 1% for public sector workers for another 4yrs.

Except for MPs of course.[b]

theyre not public sector workers but elected members of a parliment, that some people voted in .

No-one likes a Tory..
Me personally? I find them repulsive in all their forms, from the tory voter to the prime minister they instill in me a physical revulsion, hatred, sadness, fear and contempt..

But I have to say, I thought this budget seemed pretty fair and even elicited spontaneous applause as I listened to it on the wireless earlier

But I have to say, I thought this budget seemed pretty fair and even elicited spontaneous applause as I listened to it on the wireless earlier

I assume you don't like people with children (and neither do the Tories).

They seem to do rather badly out of it:
http://www.theguardian.com/money/2015/jul/08/budget-2015-what-it-means-to-you

None of the above guardian pigeon holes

Any Tories in? Yes thanks.

binners - Member
An interesting stat for you:
If the minimum wage had kept pace with average boardroom pay rises since it was introduced, it would now stand at £21 an hour.
POSTED 4 HOURS AGO #

I call bullshit on that.

yunki - member
No-one likes a Tory..
Me personally? I find them repulsive in all their forms, from the tory voter to the prime minister they instill in me a physical revulsion, hatred, sadness, fear and contempt..

HAHAHAHA HAH!

Pull the other one you insidious turd

Grow up!

I thought the budget was fair, that's a compliment but like a true tory you still have to be odious..

You're going to have to elaborate on that?

Edit post your edit:
Ok, fair comment ref finding the budget fair but the rest was perhaps a little over the top no? I'm sure your a perfectly nice chap, yet I somehow feel that to be that judgmental based on voting Tory make you sound completly unhinged. It's also, as pointed out, not just a yunki thing, it's been expressed over Twitter, Facebook and all over here. Haven't seen much of the labour bashers and you've got to admit that most people prefere the Tories so you would have thought that's not be the case...

Most of the country voted conservative..!? You're living on a dream world!

Get thee behind me vile tory demon!

There are many many more of us than you

Most of the country voted Conservative....

Only 37% of the country voted Conservative....

Personally I don't know how anyone with even a tiny bit of social conscience can try and justify Tory policy 🙁

whatnobeer - Member
Most of the country voted Conservative....
Only 37% of the country voted Conservative....
Personally I don't know how anyone with even a tiny bit of social conscience can try and justify Tory policy
POSTED 2 MINUTES AGO # REPORT-POST

Ok more people voted Tory than any other party, but that part was a troll really.

And you'll notice I don't try to justify any policy at all, but I sure as hell didn't enjoy the last labour policies either!

Ok yunki, who did you vote for?

Grouping everyone else against the Tories is a fairly stupid argument.

Which way did I vote?
Which part of 'get thee behind me' did you not understand oh foulest blue sphincter of the darkest night?

Be gone evil etonian.. Reign terror and dread upon us no more

tinybits are you new to the forum. There is a reason why anyone with a non left view doesn't bother posting on these threads, it isn't worth the effort.

Yes jonba.. Tories are despised universally, and it is reflected here as it is anywhere in the country

The world is changing rapidly, and it must have come to your attention that most people in the world are leftists..
One day the right will be extinct..

You're dinosaurs
Profit and greed are no longer fashionable 🙂

Tories are despised universally

Yet they just [b]keep[/b] winning elections 😈

Personally, working for myself, I quite like making a profit yunki - I'd be pretty screwed otherwise. Do you make no profit whatsoever from whatever existence you scrape through life with? Accept that some others may have it a bit better than you FFS!

I'm getting pretty tired of socialist/communist pretenders who haven't had the gumption to go out and make some sort of decent career for themselves bleating all over social media how unfair life is. You should have listened harder at school, deal with it!

Ah yes that's it, the poor are just lazy.

You're an endangered species pal.. Love is the answer

Some good bit's in the budget. Increase min wage and capping family credit at two kids makes sense. The betrayal of higher education continues and I do fear that smart poor kids will increasingly see it as a luxury they cannot afford. Tertiary education for the smart should be based on talent, not willingness to take on huge debt or well off parents. Tertiary education should be paid for by an extra 1p or whatever on 40% tax payers as that's the fairest way of covering the cost of a high skill knowledge based economy.

TheArtistFormerlyKnownAsSTR - Member

I'm getting pretty tired of socialist/communist pretenders who haven't had the gumption to go out and make some sort of decent career for themselves bleating all over social media how unfair life is. You should have listened harder at school, deal with it!

What we've learned from this thread:

If the government is shitting on you, you're not allowed to complain because it's your fault.
If the government is shitting on someone else, you're not allowed to complain because you're not being shat on.

So who is allowed to complain? The people doing the shitting?

I'm currently sat at home with no work, I'm getting no financial support from anyone and have a heap of debt. I'm not blaming the government, or people better off than me though - I'm blaming myself for not having all my bases covered.

Personally, working for myself, I quite like making a profit yunki

You may want to check the change to dividend tax. You've just been bent over in a very big way.

I've just read the changes 5th and can't see where I'll suffer tbh - please clarify my personal situation and where the changes will affect me. Thanks cos I'm fick

Personally, working for myself, I quite like making a profit yunki - I'd be pretty screwed otherwise. Do you make no profit whatsoever from whatever existence you scrape through life with? Accept that some others may have it a bit better than you FFS!

All those southern plantation owners liked making profit as well.....

Do you live on 90 a week then? If you don't like paying people 9 quid on hour, you should have thought of a better business model....again....like the plantation owners should have.

What the **** are you on about Tom?

I'm saying **** your entitlement to make a profit.

Plenty of better businesses will do fine and startups will find a way to cope with it.

What? Nice edit by the way - no, I don't live on £90/week. My business model currently suits 2 people - me and my staff. She lives on £275/week thanks. F*** my entitlement to make a profit???? Are you on drugs? Everything I make or lose is my own doing you tool

*edit - you chucked another edit in again - plenty of better businesses????? You really are a complete idiot - what do you do by the way?

I've just read the changes 5th and can't see where I'll suffer tbh

me and my staff. She lives on £275/week thanks. F*** my entitlement to make a profit???? Are you on drugs? Everything I make or lose is my own doing you tool

Whats your issue with paying her 9 an hour then? If you can only get by, by paying a wage that keeps a lot of people in poverty then your business has no right to exist. Maybe you can pay her 9 an hour, cut her hours and do the rest of the work yourself if you really want to keep your business.

I'm getting pretty tired of socialist/communist pretenders who haven't had the gumption to go out and make some sort of decent career for themselves bleating all over social media how unfair life is. You should have listened harder at school, deal with it!

If everyone listened hard at school, there'd still be people on the wrong end of the normal distribution curve and living below the living wage and/or the poverty line.

Whats your issue with paying her 9 an hour then?

Read my other posts - my business couldn't sustain it. Are you really that thick that you can't understand how the retail industry works? I'd love to pay her £9 p/h - and I give her a bonus when we are doing well, but there is nothing left in the pot. READ MY BLOODY POSTS YOU TOSSER!

Stop ****ing editing your posts to make yourself seem clever every time I post!

So I should pay her £9/hr and cut her hours? You ****ing dickhead

Thankfully when it comes to electing governments in this country imbociles like yunki with his backward views and ideas are very much in the minority as the last election proved.

Read my other posts - my business couldn't sustain it. Are you really that thick that you can't understand how the retail industry works? I'd love to pay her £9 p/h - and I give her a bonus when we are doing well, but there is nothing left in the pot. READ MY BLOODY POSTS YOU TOSSER!

Your problem mate, this isn't a Laissez-faire libertarian utopia, if your business can't handle the change.....bye bye.

My business can handle whatever I choose thanks Tom. Do you have a business, or just work for the Man?

This may help shed some light on Tom,

http://singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/the-wonderful-world-of-work

I have no idea whatsoever what the blokes getting at. He's starting to make Yunki seem sane. All we need now in Hora! 😈

My business can handle whatever I choose thanks Tom. Do you have a business, or just work for the Man?

Not yet, but when I do it won't be vulnerable to changes in the labour market.

Because I listened at school.

Yet they just keep winning elections

Not really - they've only managed it once in the last 20 years without help.

Can you all not have a grown up debate without insulting each other?

Nowhere near 37% of the electorate voted Tory BTW. IIRC it was about 24%.

However, there are numerous poor, disabled and vulnerable people who are literally having their lives made a misery or even dying because of the actions of the government you voted for. That's a simple fact. They've successfully laid the blame for the financial crisis created by their mates in the city on the most vulnerable members of our society, and you've all lapped it up.

I notice there doesn't seem to have been much mention of the 'northern powerhouse' turning out to be the utter lie it always obviously was. Lots of people fell for it though. Tory supporters, how do you feel about your party telling outright lies to win the election which they then immediately abandon?

And I'm self-employed BTW, I don't fit the lame stereotype some of you are coming out with. It's just that I'm not greedy and selfish.

I voted labour. I'm sure had they got in then we would have found out a significant number of their policies were lies as well. Are you that naive to think otherwise? It is the failing of people to see the opposing view that makes any discussion on here pointless.

Tax credits will affect those who decide to detune their work hours to enable more money from the state right?

Yes Labour have no integrity either, that's why I didn't vote for them. Are you suggesting we should just meekly accept it when our politicians tell outrageous lies to win elections?

I've not long, just a few points.

DD.
I was being sincere, no offense intended.

stevomcd
I've my own business so see both the employees and employers side of the tax obligation, but thanks anyway.

TAFKAS
Ok, got that. It's a small business so perhaps there isn't that much room for maneuver. I hope if your business does pick up that you'll split the win with her.

Self employed here, couldn't vote this time round, but probably would have voted con (tactical).

[i] Stoner - Member
I do love all this left wing grumpiness.
"Yeah, we wanted a rise in the minimum wage, but we didn't want it from you, you bastards!"

"We demand a living wage!".
"OK, here's a living wage".
"We demand a HIGHER living wage!!!". [/i]

That's the left for you and to be fair, it's in the T's and C's.

I want better wages for those at the bottom, however, I'd want to fund that from business, not state revenue.

Flame away!

That's pretty pathetic trolling from Stoner. What they've announced isn't the living wage - just calling it that doesn't make it so. Also, increasing the minimum wage while taking away more in tax credits is pretty cynical slight of hand, even for the Tories.

'Being grumpy' aka actually caring about the most vulnerable members of our society. Sorry but people should be getting angry about this stuff, it's a disgrace.

Meanwhile, tax cuts for the rich.

Grum.

Do you not see that a balance needs to be struck? Imo, We shouldn't, as a nation, borrow money to supplement wages, while shareholders enjoy disproportionately high dividends, ROI.

So any attempt to divert some of those profits/dividends, etc, into the wages of staff so as to reduce the need for state funded wage top-up benefits, would be a move in the right direction, imo.
As I've stated before, I don't believe anyone in FTE should suffer the indignity of claiming wage benefits, as that wage should be sufficiently funded by the employer.

Whether this actually comes to be, only time will tell and if things don't go exactly to plan, I hope the incumbent will adjust policy to reach the objective of fewer wage top-up state benefits, [b]replaced[/b] by realistic wages.

I'm getting pretty tired of socialist/communist pretenders who haven't had the gumption to go out and make some sort of decent career for themselves bleating all over social media how unfair life is. You should have listened harder at school, deal with it!

I'm currently sat at home with no work, I'm getting no financial support from anyone and have a heap of debt. I'm not blaming the government, or people better off than me though - I'm blaming myself for not having all my bases covered.

Sounds like I'm doing a fair bit better than you then sonny Jim!! 😆

Grum - However, there are numerous poor, disabled and vulnerable people who are literally having their lives made a misery or even dying because of the actions of the government you voted for. That's a simple fact.

I thought the budget was pretty fair in this respect though - hopefully the dodgy tory bastards are starting to realise that they have to be a bit more human if they want to survive

[i]Grum - However, there are numerous poor, disabled and vulnerable people who are literally having their lives made a misery or even dying because of the actions of the government you voted for. That's a simple fact.[/i]

From the BBC:
[i]In addition, many working age benefits will be frozen for four years, such as tax credits and local housing allowance, [b]but excluding maternity pay and disability benefits.[/b][/i]
I hope that means new mothers and the disabled will not see cuts, a freeze, to what they already receive.

Tom1987 are you nieve or stupid ?

You raise the wage to 9 pounds across the board by making business pay for it ....

How do they do tht - they raise the price of their product

Suddently your 9 pound isnt worth the 9 pound it was intended to be its worth roughly 6 quid....

Makes the voter feel good though as they get a "wage rise."

[i] trail_rat - Member
Tom1987 are you nieve or stupid ?
You raise the wage to 9 pounds across the board by making business pay for it ....
How do they do tht - they raise the price of their product[/i]

It's not that simple, is it? That ^ business, in your statement, has competitors, therefore raising prices of it's product may make them more expensive than their competitors. Collusion to set prices with competitors would probably be illegal and pricing yourself out of people's pockets probably isn't a cool move.
I think it's a bit more complex than you seem to believe.

Investors/shareholders, etc, feel under pressure to invest their wealth to offset the effect of inflation. So they invest rather than bank the money so as to receive a much greater return on that investment than they would from a high street savings account.

I'd suggest that this should be the target, to drop in on that ROI and skim some off the top, for wages. The investors, etc, still receive an ROI on the right side of the deal, and the state doesn't have to top-up wages from it's revenue.

anagallis_arvensis - Member
Can you all not have a grown up debate without insulting each other?
POSTED 3 HOURS AGO # REPORT-POST

This is STW, are you stupid? 😈

Oops Sorry Anagallis you have a good point! 😳

Everyone be nice and pick up your dummies.

The budget will balance itself out so nothing has changed except people relying on tax credits or grants will need working incomes or loans.

Tom1987 are you nieve or stupid ?

You raise the wage to 9 pounds across the board by making business pay for it ....

How do they do tht - they raise the price of their product

Suddently your 9 pound isnt worth the 9 pound it was intended to be its worth roughly 6 quid....

Makes the voter feel good though as they get a "wage rise."

Total balls, as others have mentioned, pricing is a lot more complex than that. Besides, most of my monthly expenses aren't going to be affected by minimum wage hikes. Even going out for a meal will be unlikely to change by very much (because the catering industry just gets round the minimum wage by salarying people then making them do double the overtime unpaid).

The ratio between the minimum wage and the living wage has been lower in the past, why is it suddenly a bad thing to be lower now?

As an aside: given Dave's stated desire to drastically reduce net migration to the UK, I can't see effectively raising the minimum wage* is going to help on that score.

Then again: I've never believed that he actually meant that for a minute. He's just mouthing platitudes to blunt nigels message to his core vote of small-minded racists.

The bottom line is that business calls for a constant supply of labour that will work for minimum wage, and it's they who fund the Tory party. Given that a lot of migrants are coming to work minimum wage jobs, this increase is surely only going to increase the numbers heading here.

* Can we stop using the phrase 'living wage'? It isn't. Its a raised minimum wage. Or in a lot of industries, just [i]the[/i] wage

or, in a lot of industries 'lots more than the [i]actual[/i] wage'

Binners.

That's not an especially sophisticated trap you've set there and you're calling everyone racist?

Try the decafe mate.
🙂

Oops. Sorry. [i]closet[/i] racists, to quote Dave directly. Admittidly its been a while since he used the term. 😉

That's pretty pathetic trolling from Stoner. What they've announced isn't the living wage - just calling it that doesn't make it so. Also, increasing the minimum wage while taking away more in tax credits is pretty cynical slight of hand, even for the Tories.

This. He's just pushed up the real living wage by a few £/hour by cutting tax credits.

Steve Bell sums it up nicely

[img] ?w=940&q=85&auto=format&sharp=10&s=325dcd1d3d1b687ba6249b142d2de2b8[/img]

The government will have to break its own pay restraint for its lowest pay grades if it wants to comply with its new improved minimum wage.

And that's ignoring the bill for subcontracted staff who are only just making the current minimum wages.