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We sat on Calmac ferry on Sunday to Islay. The whole way a couple coughed and coughed. While taking facemask off to sip wine. By end of journey, one side of lounge was crowded and the other side a lonely looking couple...*
Today we got on wee ferry to Jura. Sat in car we could hear another couple with thier window down, wife coughing away. Even the crew member commented to us when paying for tickets and told us to keep windows up...
I wonder if the 'nah, it's not that serious' attitude may come back to bite us.
Fingers crossed for tomorrow's twin ferry crossings.
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*Ironically I bet the crowd were the infectious ones...
FWIW it's not unusual for me to develop a cough after an infection that lasts for weeks or even months. I've had this one for probably 4 weeks since having a cold. I check twice weekly before going in to work, and it's always negative.
Coughs existed long before covid.
Coughs existed long before covid.
I agree - I'm married to someone with bronchiectasis and suspected pulmonary fibrosis - but it just seems odd having two people with persistent cough...?
perhaps their eyes met through the fug in the smoking shelter at work, and they've been hacking around together ever since.
If you have protected yourself against this now milder variant then what exactly is the drama here?
😁
Tree pollen affecting me quite badly this spring, been a few times I've wondered if I've caught it, but all tests negative.
If you have protected yourself against this now milder variant then what exactly is the drama here?
I’m married to someone with bronchiectasis and suspected pulmonary fibrosis
caused by Primary Immune Disorder.
Yeah, no one vulnerable here, no need to think of anyone else.
@TiRed Thanks for explaining the science in a non-science-way.
I googled rabbit human-specific antibodies (I knew that today is the 6th 🙂 ) and I didn't even understand the storage instructions if I'd bought them 😂
So, if I've got this right, in simple layman's terms the April Fools Day changes to how we respond to COVID from the government are: COVID's over, back to as you were. If your ill don't go to work, if you know you've got a high temp or are lucky enough to use a test to identify COVID then keep away from others. The only addition is a possible 3rd booster (4th Jan) for vulnerable people. Have I missed anything?
Yeah, no one vulnerable here, no need to think of anyone else.
A genuine question from a position of ignorance, as I don't personally know anyone who is medically vulnerable, but I've heard the argument put forward that vulnerable people have always been vulnerable and have always had to be cautious, so Covid is just another thing to be cautious about.
But are you having to take more precautions than previously? Is it the transmissability of Covid as much as the impact that's the concern?
I'm probably 2 years too late asking this, obviously.
Your right that covid is another thing to be cautious about but an still lot of the general pop are no longer that cautious. Transmissibility of the lateral variant is a big consideration and the sheer numbers infected now. 1 in 11 kids have it at the mo it's estimated?
Btw for anyone reading who's relying on previous infection to protect them from further infection a recent study shows that Omicron is not giving much in the way of persistent antibodies.
Random thought - if we are now treating this like other seasonal viruses like flu and cold - stay home if you are really sick otherwise crack on - and they transmit in a similar way, are we going to see covid outcompete and eliminate existing viruses?
Random thought – if we are now treating this like other seasonal viruses like flu and cold – stay home if you are really sick otherwise crack on – and they transmit in a similar way, are we going to see covid outcompete and eliminate existing viruses?
Short answer: no. Because they are different viruses.
Different strains of the same virus (ie: different variants of covid) "compete/eliminate" each other, because catching one variant sometimes gives you protection from the other, thus a variant which is more transmissible quickly becomes the dominant strain.
Doesn't work if catching one doesn't give you protection from the other. ie: even if you got/had covid, you can still catch the flu.
However, all of the "soft" measures (mask wearing, handwashing, not going out/to work when sick) are hugely effective in restricting the spread of flu, and so I think flu cases/hospitalisations/deaths have been vastly lower in "covid years" than previously. Dunno what's going to happen in 2022/23 flu season though. The nightmare scenario is a "bad" (or even just an "average") flu year, coinciding with a spike in covid cases
Dunno what’s going to happen in 2022/23 flu season though. The nightmare scenario is a “bad” (or even just an “average”) flu year, coinciding with a spike in covid cases
That was the fear the winter just gone and it was touch and go with offices shut and just enough people following the remaining restrictions. Next winter, with time for another variant to develop, might still require some minor restrictions maybe?
Anyone else noticing themselves having to pause much more often to search for words while speaking, since having Covid-19?
Anyone else noticing themselves having to pause much more often to search for words while speaking, since having Covid-19?
Yep. Every now and then I can't think of the word I want. I'm not really sure it's not just age actually, but I have heard others attribute it to post COVID.
Not now, but when had covid couple weeks ago had real word finding issues, resolved once recovered thankfully.
but when had covid couple weeks ago had real word finding issues, resolved once recovered thankfully.
I get that before and during a migraine so it's quite possible there's something physical going on in the brain.
But are you having to take more precautions than previously? Is it the transmissability of Covid as much as the impact that’s the concern?
Limited measures for treatment, serious pathogenicity (up to Omicron), little or no pre-existing immunity (no childhood infections to this virus), meant that SARS-CoV-2 was a very serious concern for those who are truly vulnerable. Some people have no response to vaccination (think lymphoma patients, chemotherapy patients, 1/5 MS patients, some organ transplant patients on mycophenolate), and with no past immunity, the virus can be very serious.
Fortunately we now have Evusheld (passive vaccination) that has held up against BA.2 (but not BA.1), we have paxlovid and molnupiravir for acute infection. So some options. There are also treatments being developed for Human Rhinovirus and RSV, not to mention other nasties.
are we going to see covid outcompete and eliminate existing viruses?
NO, you can be infected with more than one at the same time. Influenza does not give cross immunity to COVID. In fact, five days after finally testing negative for COVID, I have another viral infection 🙁
We just got a letter through offering a Jab for my 9yo. I'm not sure why, but I'm reticent to do so, anyone else?
My 13yo has had one and looks as though he'll need another if we holiday in Spain as we intend this year, yet that doesn't concern me - odd.
My 8 year old is double jabbed and 10 year old has his first… then got a positive test a month or two after so is waiting 3 months for the second jab.
I’ve just tested positive. Not looking forward to a week of isolation in a 100sqm open plan shed. On the plus side I can access up to 20 days of COVID leave.
I’ve just tested positive. Not looking forward to a week of isolation in a 100sqm open plan shed. On the plus side I can access up to 20 days of COVID leave.
We did 10 days isolation in our motorhome last August....it wore fairly thin by the end!
Thanks @TiRed - as ever a summary that explains things well.
In mrs_oab's case - she's a primary immunodeficiency. So from that point of view, Cv19 is "just" another thing, albeit a nasty one.
Our bigger concern is that she has weakened lungs after 20 years of chest infections, with a couple of developing conditions, which Cv19 has big impact on.
I do need to hold things in perspective. You're right to say 'its one more thing', not a defining infection. I think the message to all should be "stop walking around the workplace / supermarket / wherever while feeling ill" - and not just cv19.
We are very positive about the new treatments and mrs_oab has her 'entitled to' treatment letter safely stored, should we need it.
We're also very positive about us being able to be outdoors and choose to be away from crowds. I can't see us ever returning to crowded sports venues, gigs, shopping centres etc. This week is a good example - lovely holiday, no concerns at all, apart from a couple coughing constantly in a confined ferry lounge.
I have a client who works in a renal outpatients department in one of the big local hospitals. She is working on a study to find how effective the COVID vaccines are for transplant patients. Sadly early signs are not very. But she is also having her blood tested as part of the control group and her antibody count is sky high presumably because she is having nearly daily contact with COVID positive patients.
We just got a letter through offering a Jab for my 9yo. I’m not sure why, but I’m reticent to do so, anyone else?
Presumably you were happy for him to have all the other vaccines that *EVERYONE* had when they were children? This is no different.
We just got a letter through offering a Jab for my 9yo. I’m not sure why, but I’m reticent to do so, anyone else?
Two reasons. First it's entirelty uneccessary in order to protect their health and given that we now have very high levels of transmission with barely any negative consequences, the urgency for anyone to have it to create herd immunity seems less pressing.
Second, it's a brand new vaccine based on a technology that's never been used before in human trials and thus there is the potential for a long term unkown negative consequence. There is no way to know this without longitudinal data over years. Whilst it's reasonable to conclude that the risks of such a new approach are acceptable and valid based on the wider need to protect those (small number of) people who are vulnerable, in a nine year old you take a much more circumspect view because of their age. Factor in the reality that the virus is still here, still spreading (but without the mortality) and your reasoning is entirely understandable.
These concerns also should be balanced with the concern over the potential long term consequences of the disease the vaccine is targeted at.
it’s a brand new vaccine based on a technology that’s never been used before
No it isn't. But for most people that doesn't need going over yet again, so let's not bother.
Well I'm on day 13 since testing positive and can genuinely say even though I'm now negative, I feel as bad, if not worse than, day 2 which was pretty shite.
Still coughing
Loads of snot
Feel super sick
Zero energy
Cold
Head aches
No appetite today
Maybe bad luck and a secondary virus but who knows! Feel shite is all I can say
Anyone else noticing themselves having to pause much more often to search for words while speaking, since having Covid-19?
Yep. Part of long covid brain fog for me. I struggled to complete simple quick crosswords for months and had problems with phone conversations, lots of pauses and thinking. I also forgot people's names - friends, Neymar, Theresa May and others. Much better now - unfortunately I now know who May is again - but I still sometimes struggle to put my finger on the word I specifically want, which is worrying as I earn a living as a writer. Brain fog is a common long covid symptom, but I've also seen suggestions that the social isolation of lockdown has had similar impact due to lack of social interaction.
You’re right to say ‘its one more thing’, not a defining infection
I hope my question came across the way I intended, and not minimising the concerns and the risks, it was genuine curiosity.
I'm glad you've found a level you are comfortable with, and I agree, it would be nice if Covid caused a change in attitudes to spreading any infection.
Second, it’s a brand new vaccine based on a technology that’s never been used before in human trials
Just curious, but would you be happy for them to receive conventional adjuvanted protein-based vaccines such as sanofi? Or modified novel protein-based such as Novovax? There is a long track record of delivering mRNA to produce proteins and interference RNA to silence them. That none of the former made it to products was not for want of trying. Would that they had been as efficacious in Oncology (which was Moderna’s original premise).
I have to admit I’m not sure I understand the rationale for vaccinating young kids any more. Given their very low risk of serious symptoms, plus latest variants seem to spread very easily regardless of vaccination status?
My 5 year old has had both doses (pfizer).
Reasons were as follows:
Might reduce the chances of her getting it
Might reduce the severity of her symptoms if she does get it
Might reduce the chance of her passing it on to me/Mrs Batfink and Batfink Jnr, if she gets it
My Nephew (12) has stage 4 osteosarcoma, so the chances of reduced transmission in the family are worth having.
latest variants seem to....
We've dodged a bullet so far in terms of the severity of illness in school-aged children (we think - not sure what the long term effect of covid in this population is)...... but what about the next variant? And the 5 after that?
Ultimately, it's a question for each parent to answer for themselves, but that's how I made my decision.
...but what about the next variant? And the 5 after that?
I did a bit more reading yesterday, and this uncertainty in severity of any future waves seems to have been a key aspect in the JCVI recommendation:
Our turn for covid.
One son tested positive this morning, another another not feeling great...
matt_outandabout - I hope your wife can stay safe.
Regarding herd immuntity, I thought TiRed explained months ago that this can't happen.
Surely with all the variants going around, it's impossible to get herd immunity.
As I understand it some people are catching covid, then a few months later have caught a different variant.
I think the brain fog isn't just covid related. I suffered from post viral fatigue syndrome many years ago and this happened to me. Also the brain fog (forgetting simple words or names) still happens at the end of a day and also if I'm tired.
Indeed, the main thing people are taking about with "Long Covid" is in effect post viral fatigue syndrome. The brain fog and post exercise malaise symptoms fit in with other CFS perfectly (sadly), and I suspect can only be "treated" in the same way (if treated at all). There are other forms of "Long Covid" as well, which is why people haven't switch to using "post viral fatigue syndrome" rather than referring to the virus that triggered the condition... but it's time for us to start being more specific about the various conditions that people are left with after having covid, rather than throwing them all in a vague Long Covid basket and calling it done.
My wife has had several weeks of being exhausted, including a week of virus, without testing Covid+. We think it’s post viral… I’m two days into Covid and have been pretty flattened, but starting to feel a bit more human. I definitely don’t want the long term tiredness.
Bunnyhop, in some respects we have reached a form of herd immunity, the vast majority of the population now has some defence against Covid that might reduce transmission but definitely reduces severity in mists cases. That's as good as it will get, probably not the herd immunity Johnson was thinking of at the start where we all get it once and it's done. Don't think many viruses work like that.
Just curious, but would you be happy for them to receive conventional adjuvanted protein-based vaccines such as sanofi?
In the end I had no problem with my eldest (12) having the vaccine (nor I for that matter) but like the original question asked, I did stop to think more carefully about it and I did have an internal dialogue about how sure I was that it was safe, not that I was able to conclude much on the basis of evidence. In the end, like most people, I reasoned the benefits outweighed any potential risks (and to say there were no risks woudl be wrong as we all know).
My point wasn't to suggest the vaccine was unsafe, just that you tend to use a different set of parameters for decision making when it's your kids; it really focuses the mind because it's now you 'doing it to them', which is a very different set of parameters to you owning any potential consequence to accepting the vaccine for yourself.
And, from I have read, whilst mRNA research has been going on for decades, this was the first vaccine used in large scale deployment to use that technology. Tell me if that is incorrect as there are several sources saying it is so.
I come at this from the perspective esposed by Karl Popper, which is to say that the definition of 'scientific' is that nothing can be directly proved, something exists as truth in the absence of falsifying evidence but is open to being falsified. It's a rather oversimplified summary of his philosophy but it works for me.
What are people's current thoughts/what is the current guidance on working in the office with regards to covid?
A friend's firm let an employee with confirmed covid work in the office last week as those they share an office with consented. Several other members of staff are now off sick with covid due presumably to their contact in work.
My friend doesn't want to go in this week as one of those secondary cases (a partner in the firm) at least is in the office having tested positive in the last 48 hrs.
As they're currently working their notice (to leave for a rival firm) their ability to work from home has been withdrawn, so they have been told they can either go in and risk contracting covid or take unpaid leave.
That seems wholly unreasonable to me, even if it is legal.