2.vaccine passports (I’ve never done one, what events are big enough to require them? Dont think I’ve heard any of my friends mention having them either)
Been to 2 football games where they were needed, had staff outside the ground (away from turnstiles) where you show your NHS pass and get a wristband to say you had been checked. You then flash the band when going through the turnstile. Both times a 2 min job and completely hassle free IME.
RM.
How many articles have you read that demonstrate mask wearing does work?
Sorry for jumping on this but you’re showing some poor reasoning here.
It’s just another brand new account trolling
For mask wearing the evidence would seem to be particularly weak. I used to religiously wear a mask but was sent this article by a friend and it has changed my opinion 100%. Makes sense to me.
then you are clueless, because that article is nonsense
but you are obviously full of it "I used to religiously wear a mask" 🙂
It’s just another brand new account trolling
Thanks for noticing. Let's ignore it.
The debate about masks shouldn't be on whether they work but what grade of mask works. I fear that with Omicron the masks most of us are using most of the time aren't good enough to prevent transmission, and the FFP2 masks that can be proven to work with Omicron really are miserable things to wear. I started a four hour Summer train journey with an FFP2 and changed it for a basic surgical mask after and hour or so. Whilst the surgical mask is a minor inconvenience the FFP2 is pretty miserable after and hour or so when it's hot.
then you are clueless, because that article is nonsense
It made pretty good sense to me, seemed well researched from a huge variety of studies and sources and did a very good job of comparing the different types of mask and why they might or might not be effective.
It’s just another brand new account trolling
No not a troll but thank you for your vote of confidence.
Is there an endless supply of them, or just the same ones coming back with new names after a spell of the thread being too sensible for a while?
For mask wearing the evidence would seem to be particularly weak. I used to religiously wear a mask but was sent this article by a friend and it has changed my opinion 100%. Makes sense to me.
Selective isn’t evidence and suggesting you test cloth mask by placing a t-shirt over steaming pan demonstrates that. That article belongs in the bin.
The UK Governments own large study into masks in schools, the one it used to justify the return of masks in the classroom, concluded that there was no statistical difference in absence rates in schools with masks vs those without.
Yet more than half of children felt that wearing a mask made learning more difficult and 94% of teachers thought that face coverings made communication more difficult. Meanwhile the direct COVID-19 health risks to children and young people remains incredibly low.
So a policy forcing children to adopt measures that show no statistical benefit, against a disease they are at minuscule risk from, and which harms their education. What are we trying to achieve with this policy again exactly?
Hi, my wife's a teacher, so protect her for one.
Protect her from what though exactly
Seriously? 🙂
If you think it should be the other way round then that’s some pretty messed up thinking IMO.
Oh bless.
Christmas Day andBoxingDay we had 50 people an hour testing.
Now we don’t get 50 people over 10 hours.
Interesting report.
There is a level of statistical uncertainty around the result. The analysis is non-peer reviewed and with the current sample size, shows a non-statistical and unknown clinical significant reduction in infection in a short follow up period, including that a ‘false positive’ (i.e. finding that face coverings saw reduced absence when the finding is actually by chance) would emerge around 15% of the time; a 5% threshold is widely used to declare statistical significance in academic literature.
Therefore, further work should be done to extend the analysis in terms of scope: for example, looking at different statistical methodologies, capturing different and longer
Ah well, I semi jumped the gun…daughter tested positive before school this morning on a Lat Flow (3 days after her first vaccination), zero symptoms.
Partner had to get a PCR as she works in ITU, she’s also Positive 😞 No symptoms.
Myself, the boy (10, getting it from all angles now as he was a close contact at school last week from 2 people) and eldest girl (16 double vaccinated) all still showing negative on LatFlows. Feels mad that I’ll have to go to work tomorrow!
akbar
Joined January 12, 2022
As you've only recently joined I'm going to assume you haven't read the entire thread...
Getting right down to business though eh? Even taken the time to post on a few other threads this time
Sorry not read the entire thread but have read the last few pages. Has everything already been decided or is there still room for a fresh pair of eyes?
Anyway one thing I couldn't see discussed, but maybe it was further back in the thread was the 'circuit-breaker' lockdown that many in the media, SAGE and the Labour Party called for a month ago. If it had introduced then this would have only just ended and would no doubt now be being hailed as big a success for bringing case numbers down and for having reduced the peak of admissions from the 5-10,000/day projected (based on 20-50% severity) to the 2000/day we have actually seen.
Thank goodness we can now see clearly that the virus mostly does its own thing, often independently of any measures we try to introduce to control it. Nail in the coffin for the effectiveness of lockdown measures thankfully.
just out of interest did you think the first or second lockdowns effective?
Circuit breaker lockdown might have helped my Partner get to work tomorrow, as of tonight she’s not the only Nurse absent from her ITU ward which doesn’t help an already overstretched workforce.
Circuit breaker lockdown might have helped my Partner get to work tomorrow, as of tonight she’s not the only Nurse absent from her ITU ward which doesn’t help an already overstretched workforce.
Unfortunately I guess she better get used to it I suppose when they fire all those unvaccinated NHS staff in April.
just out of interest did you think the first or second lockdowns effective?
Seem to waiting for you to answer this akbar
just out of interest did you think the first or second lockdowns effective?
Common opinion still says yes, but when you compare data from around the world, cases decreased similarly in countries or regions that did not lock down. So I would say the jury is out and perception seems to be shifting, with WHO now recommending no more lockdowns and other doctors and scientists now feeling that they can come out and say what a huge mistake it has all been. All you could say at best I suppose is that lockdowns perhaps delayed cases to a later date, extending if you like the Pandemic.
The downside to lockdowns is the huge collateral damage that rarely gets talked about in the media or on here from what I could see. It is estimated that the mostly global lockdowns have pushed millions into poverty and widened equality (160 million according to Oxfam). We will probably find out soon that lockdowns and over the top restrictions have killed more people that Covid ever did. Here's some food for thought from Oxfam:
…still room for a fresh pair of eyes?
Ha ha.
Lol
All you could say at best I suppose is that lockdowns perhaps delayed cases to a later date,
I think we might be getting somewhere, keep at the critical thinking.
The downside to lockdowns is the huge collateral damage that rarely gets talked about in the media or on here from what I could see. It is estimated that the mostly global lockdowns have pushed millions into poverty and widened equality (160 million according to Oxfam). We will probably find out soon that lockdowns and over the top restrictions have killed more people that Covid ever did. Here’s some food for thought from Oxfam:
I wouldn't waste your breath on here akbar, they'll probably debunk that ^^ as either a lie, or a small price to pay for not catching something that mostly doesn't kill healthy (or in fact, most) people
I noticed on the news tonight (this may have been the case for a while, I don't know), that rather than 'died within 28 days of a positive test' - which was always a bit spurious anyway, it's now 'died by any cause if tested positive within 28 days'. Run over by a bus - covid.
But keep on sucking it up
‘died by any cause if tested positive within 28 days’. Run over by a bus – covid.
It’s not.
Unfortunately I guess she better get used to it I suppose when they fire all those unvaccinated NHS staff in April.
Yup we’re losing staff daily dropping crews at a time we could really do without losing them.
The UK uses World Health Organisation rules to record covid deaths. Cases involving road traffic accidents is covered by the rules and where it is obvious that a road traffic accident was the cause of death it is recorded as such.
I wouldn’t waste your breath on here akbar, they’ll probably debunk that ^^ as either a lie, or a small price to pay for not catching something that mostly doesn’t kill healthy (or in fact, most) people
bullshit like that cost lives
I see we have the usual idiotic rattling of “same shit…..different day” nonsense yet again
bullshit like that cost lives
Eh?
If we are talking bullshit - not one of the Nightingale units was utilised in the first (much worse) wave. Why now, when it's clear that hospital admissions are lower?
I'm guilty of believing stuff I read that may not be true, but so are you....
<p class="dcr-o5gy41">A Nightingale field hospital is being erected in the Royal Preston car park in a sign of what is to come. One of only eight in England, the 100-bed facility will cater to the whole north-west of England and is expected to be full within weeks. The hospital’s restaurant and two sports halls are being readied as an emergency back-up.</p>
I've said it a few times but the nightingales weren't really hospitals, not in the conventional sense. They were alternatives to hospitals, for when the hospitals were full, and basically one step better than dying in the car park. A desperation measure and we came damn close to needing them.
Think of them as lifeboats- you definitely don't want to end up in a lifeboat, but you equally shouldn't complain if they don't get used.
Think of them as lifeboats- you definitely don’t want to end up in a lifeboat, but you equally shouldn’t complain if they don’t get used.
I sincerely hope that the Royal Preston one doesn't become full, but somehow I don't think it will in any case....
Thank goodness we can now see clearly that the virus mostly does its own thing, often independently of any measures we try to introduce to control it. Nail in the coffin for the effectiveness of lockdown measures thankfully.
but when you compare data from around the world, cases decreased similarly in countries or regions that did not lock down.
As someone who lives in another part of the world and works for a health service where we've successfully managed to use lockdowns and border closures to minimise COVID infections, whilst living a life largely unaffected by the changes until the vast majority of the population are vaccinated I can confirm that you are not just wrong, but somewhat delusional. Seriously barking.
If we are talking bullshit – not one of the Nightingale units was utilised in the first (much worse) wave.
Yup that’s bullshit alright. 3 were used thankfully the others weren’t needed thanks to well, lockdown.
How's it going up there Reeksy?
Got any RAT tests you can send me? Lol
TheArtistFormerlyKnownAsSTR
Full Member
I noticed on the news tonight (this may have been the case for a while, I don’t know), that rather than ‘died within 28 days of a positive test’ – which was always a bit spurious anyway, it’s now ‘died by any cause if tested positive within 28 days’. Run over by a bus – covid.But keep on sucking it up
Two numbers are reported - died following a +ve covid test, and died with covid as cause of death on death certificate. These two numbers have always been quite close.
Looking on the Gov site today (which you can also do if you want) the first of those is 152k, and the second is 174k.
So in fact your "Run over by a bus" numbers are actually slightly *lower* than the "recorded by a medical professional on a death certificate" numbers.
I'm sure this point has been made multiple times on this thread over the months.
Ha ha @batfink - it's a bit eery. Lots of staff being redeployed. Our incident commanders are feeling confident (or at least telling us) that we can manage the projected increases that are on their way.
... we've got separate testing sites for staff so i've access to RAT tests if i need 🙂
they’ll probably debunk that
You do know what "debunk" means, right?
I know we may disagree from time to time but you can't actually be that stupid that you're railing against concepts like "proof", right?
Right? Tell me I've missed something here.
You do know what “debunk” means, right?
Sorry, should have put 'try and' in there
Do you not think at all (just one little bit), that the whole reaction to Covid and the outlying consequenses of lockdowns et al have had a massive negative impact on society? An impact that isn't wholly justified?
Our incident commanders are feeling confident (or at least telling us) that we can manage the projected increases that are on their way.
That's good news.
We were on holiday last week and missed our kids daycare center closing due to multiple cases and "close-contacts" - fortunately I took our last few RATs up to the beach house we were staying at and was able to test us all (negative). What followed were an interesting 48 hours whereby the advice from the government changed 3 times..... swinging from "you are a close contact, isolate for 7 days and do 3 tests in that time" to "don't do anything unless you are symptomatic - and even then, there is no requirement to do a test - just stay away from school/daycare whilst you have symptoms". It was very strange - goodness knows what's going to happen when the schools go back at the end of the month.
To say that NSW has lost confidence in it's state government is something of an understatement.
Edit: I know it's no laughing matter, but I admit to chuckling when I saw that Victoria have just declared a "code brown"
An impact that isn’t wholly justified?
It is widely accepted that lockdowns throughout the world have saved millions of lives, which is of course the reason there was pretty much universal agreement on the need for lockdowns.
Was it wholly justified? I guess the answer depends on how much you value human life. Not everyone values human life to the same extent.
I saw that and figured there will be Code Brown memes being prepared throughout the nation.
Presumably the codes are national (why I would do that I don't know everything else seems to be different!), we all carry the emergency procedure code list on us at all times and i think it's the first time i've ever looked at it!
Deadliest day so far ... It's certainly going to be an interesting few weeks. Just crossing fingers that the next variant isn't going to really stuff things up.
Do you not think at all (just one little bit), that the whole reaction to Covid and the outlying consequenses of lockdowns et al have had a massive negative impact on society?
Of course. You'd have to be a stone bonker or a sociopath to think otherwise.
An impact that isn’t wholly justified?
Well, I'm not dead, whether you think that's a net positive I couldn't say.
Look. It's been shit, no-one is disputing that. I've been OK relatively speaking, I haven't lost any close friends, family members or my livelihood. Others have been less fortunate. But what was the alternative, take the hit of a 30% population cull* so we can all go to the pub?
The uncomfortable truth is the opposite - the lockdown measures were insufficient. They were too late, they were lifted too early and they were poorly enforced. People saw the lassez-faire attitude demonstrated by the government and figured "if they're not taking it seriously, why should we?" The local supermarkets have segregated entrances and exits but once inside it's business as usual and no-one cares, customers and staff alike. Two years on, people still haven't grasped the basic concept of covering up their nose in case they sneeze, I've litter-trained kittens faster (and one of them is neurologically damaged at that). If folk hadn't decided they were special this would likely have gone away by now, the anti-maskers and anti-vaxxers only have themselves to blame.
(* - number pulled out of my arse, you can probably google projection statistics if you care sufficiently)
Also lockdowns helped prevent many catching C19 who may otherwise have suffered from long covid.
We have been under restrictions as long as anybody else, but due to dithering, waited far too long to impose them, leading to 50,000+ extra deaths.
A weeks delay on the way in led to an extra month on the down slope, as these things ramp up far quicker than they tail off.
The Delta & Omicron waves were very different to Wave 1 & Alpha , due to vaccines.