since as we all know, 90% of communication is non verbal.
Actually we don't, the Mehrabian study that this stat comes from was very specific and is largely discredited. You cannot suggest that 90% of an information based exchange is conveyed by body language and tone. Indeed, if i was to say "Only 7% of communication comes from the actual words used" how will you get 93% of the understanding from my body language and tone?
Even Mehrabian himself said
“Please note,” Dr. Mehrabian wrote, “that this and other equations regarding relative importance of verbal and nonverbal messages were derived from experiments dealing with communications of feelings and attitudes (i.e., like-dislike). Unless a communicator is talking about their feelings or attitudes, these equations are not applicable.”
https://www.pgi.com/blog/2020/03/how-much-of-communication-is-really-nonverbal/
I do understand the point though. I work with a profoundly deaf colleague, he has a neat app that converts speech to text for him on his phone to overcome when he cannot lipread. I'd assume your friend is aware but if not I can find out.
Anyway..... now you're here any chance you could answer my questions about the graph you posted as evidence that lockdowns don't work?
now you’re really straying into the realms of psycho-babble. There’s no sensible evidence that folk are being traumatised because they have to wear a mask, (it’s pretty common in SE Asia after all)
Psycho babble? You might want to read this report from our Government that actively sought to manipulate and ramp up the fear factor in the population. This is a government document but no doubt you will also label this a lizard people stuff since that's what generally happens isn't it when there is something you can't provide a strong come back against?
Instead of nit-picking on the minutia of my mask argument in an attempt to score cheap points, why don't you perhaps address the main thrust instead, i.e do you think that $166 billion spent in masks in 202 is a good or proportional thing, based on the lack of evidence that they work and compared to what we could have used that money for?
Blood thinners probably
Actually its IVIG intravenous immunoglobulin to act as an immunosuppressant, other subsequent management treatments may follow including thinners but NOT heparin. The immediate challenge is an immunological one, so damping down the immune system by flooding with benign antibodies to counter some of the presumed cross-reactive ones that may be causing thrombotic events. The similarity to heparin-induced clotting is interesting. Eventually more understanding will come. My guess would be that the vaccine has induced some cross-reactive antibodies that start a cascade.
When we test new therapeutic antibodies, we look at tissue cross-reactivity against a panel of human tissues. I don't think that is done with vaccine sera from antibodies made in response to human vaccination. It's always assumed that they are highly specific magic bullets. But they bind to small regions of protein (epitopes) and such regions may also be present on other proteins. I've only ever seen it once in my own therapeutic antibody development (20 plus mAbs). It killed a project immediately.
The guidance is being continuously updated:
IANAMD
Anyway….. now you’re here any chance you could answer my questions about the graph you posted as evidence that lockdowns don’t work?
I'm just off out on the bike now but I will get back to you at some point. It is very hard to keep up on here when I've been doing jobs around the house this morning and I find myself discussing as one person against many people who are working against my argument and trying to prove me wrong. Some out of good faith, but some clearly out of malice and of a trolling nature. Often difficult to distinguish the two and respond accordingly.
OK, enjoy the ride. I'll wait.
It is very hard to keep up on here when I’ve been doing jobs around the house this morning and I find myself discussing as one person against many people
It's just I've asked many times now, including in posts where you have selectively answered parts but never this bit, that it seems to me a bit like you're avoiding it. Which is odd to me as it seems to be a key piece of the evidence to support your assertion that lockdowns don't work.
You might want to read this report from our Government that actively sought to manipulate and ramp up the fear factor in the population.
This is true, but the question is whether this is bad which I guess also comes down to whether you believe the threat is real or not. We've run hard hitting campaigns on smoking/cancer, seatbelts, drink driving..... which have all worked.
YMMV, clearly.
So perfumes will generally travel further, but you’re not comparing like with like.
Additionally, smelling someone's perfume requires a tiny number of particles to activate your scent receptors - evidence suggests you need a concentrated exposure to airborne viral droplets over time for a significant risk of covid transmission, hence outdoor contact now considered a lot safer than indoor.
Either way, he shouldn't be too concerned when he smells someone's Lynx Africa on the way past. Doesn't stop me flinching slightly when I cycle through someone's cigarette fug than has come straight from the depths of their airways, though. 🙂
Government that actively sought to manipulate and ramp up the fear factor in the population.
I also remember the AIDS "tombstone" campaign, I think that jolted many folk out of their complacency, wouldn't you agree? I'll be honest. I'd rather take the advice of the epidemiologists, virologists, and other disease experts than you. thanks all the same.
What’s the master plan then Curly?
If lockdowns don’t work and you have all the pertinent questions surely you have all the answers and a solution manifesto?
You even have the benefit of hindsight to aid your plan for dealing with covid that doesn’t overwhelm the NHS, kill lots of people, impact the economy and the education of the country’s youth.
I can’t be the only one who wants to know?
Some out of good faith, but some clearly out of malice and of a trolling nature. Often difficult to distinguish the two and respond accordingly.
To be clear, my comments are out of “malice”. I’ve had a year of having to reassure relatives that have come across the bullshit you are enjoying spreading/repeating here, and I consider what you are doing as despicable. As you created a new account just to post this nonsense, I think you should be called out for it rather than engaged with seriously. Just my opinion.
Curlywurly is the best troll on this thread to date. He's a free thinking disruptor
Thanks for the info on the CVSTs. Whilst obviously I won’t be explaining the treatment in detail, it’s good to know that I can say “If you report it and get access to treatment, these events are treatable “ and know there is some basis to that statement.
I’m not surprised A&E is being overloaded with this. A lot of people are very afraid. If we want vaccine uptake to remain high we must ensure their concerns are taken seriously.
Interesting to see that J&J jab now having similar issues. Isn’t it’s technology very similar to AZ?
Isn’t it’s technology very similar to AZ?
The very same. AZ and J&J use an adenovirus as a vector to insert viral DNA that codes for the spike protein into the cells. Moderna and Pfizer just coat the raw mRNA in a lipid package with a hard shell (Polyethylene glycol) for direct reading in the cell itself. The NYT has done some excellent articles on the modes of action
https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2020/health/johnson-johnson-covid-19-vaccine.html
Still, I await the accusations of being a conspiracy theorist!
You're a conspiracy theorist.
There you can stop waiting now
To be clear, my comments are out of “malice”.
Mine are as well, I'll happily put you in the "sadly delusional" side of the accounts. I don't wish you ill, and I hope your actions don't negatively effect those around you, but I consider your posts on here as deliberate and malicious misinformation.
Is that actually an option? You get to pick and choose?
Yup, on my phone app I could reserve Moderna or Pfizer for some future date in a vaccination centre and when the doc phoned he made it clear I could accept AZ and get my shoes on or wait for the others.
The strategy here seems to be giving the job of convincing people to accept AZ to GPs, who also select the patients they think will be OK with AZ. To be honest it's reassuring to know there's someone you know is reactive there to respond in the case of getting any of the warning symptoms. So far so good, I'm putting feeling tired down to 4h of MTB this morning.
I consider your posts on here as deliberate and malicious misinformation.
That's overly harsh. It strikes me as a genuinely held opinion with which you happen to disagree.
It's a shame that mutual respect isn't part of the rules for this particular forum.
It’s a shame that mutual respect isn’t part of the rules for this particular forum.
I've deliberately said I don't wish him harm but I don't have any respect for his point of view.
Most of our centres haven’t got a clue what vaccine they are getting next week! Many do multiple vaccines so personal choice isn’t an option.
Personally if someone refused the vaccine offered I think they should go to the back of the queue (obvs unless gp suggests they need a change,)
That’s overly harsh. It strikes me as a genuinely held opinion with which you happen to disagree
The issue is not having a different opinion, but you need to debate it and be able to defend it, not just keep restating it, or avoiding the questions by keep asking your own.
I'm prepared to give the chance to do that but they have avoided my very specific question for a day and a half now, despite multiple requests and multiple posts from them in the meantime.
Which is becoming reminiscent of the MO of multiple other 'new' members on here which is what has caused some hackles to rise.
Claims like 'all the data shows' or 'everyone knows' that are demonstrably contentious need to be backed up. It's not just for the disagree-ers to show why they think it's wrong; you have to show why you think it's right and answer the critics.
I'd like people to be more civil but the obvious trolls have spoiled it for the genuine alternate view proponents.
I think any kind of punitive system is counterproductive and choice is good. The objective is to get as many people vaccinated as possible as quickly as possible with as few vaccination deaths/serious complications as possible. At present there's still a shortage of all vaccines despite age range limitations on AZ and reticence. As the numbers keep coming in then hopefully confidence in AZ can be rebuilt.
The Germans are up to 41 clotting incidents from their initial AZ batches, if they can show that the age range limits have brought incidents into line with other vaccines they have more chance of finding people willing to use AZ than if they'd tried to continue regardless of the evidence.
So less than half of your clickbait attempt of 750,000. You do know when you make assumptions and post questionable evidential data it only serves to lessen your already pretty weak stance, right?
You should probably read what you quote. That's excess deaths not total deaths. We had 80k excess deaths last year.
I'm personally against lockdowns but won't deny they work as a blunt instrument to limit social contact and therefore the spread of covid. My personal preference would be to let people make their own choices.
My personal preference would be to let people make their own choices.
I'm inclined to agree..... but then I remember how bad the public has been when we have been left to our own devices, and then I disagree. And then I think of my more libertarian attitudes and the impact of these lockdowns on the nation long term.....and then I.......
Which is why I welcome the different views. I look at the evidence and overall I'm still supportive of lockdowns as the lesser of (all shit) evils, but I'm also very happy for others to bring new evidence and convince me otherwise. Still waiting though......
It’s a shame that mutual respect
Thing about respect is it is proffered until one is no longer worthy of it. Failing to answer civil queries whilst spouting opinion that is not backed with solid evidence loses respect faster than a housebrick dropped from the Shard.
Guess where you currently are?
’m inclined to agree….. but then I remember how bad the public has been when we have been left to our own devices, and then I disagree
This sums it up for me. Sweden chose such a path of personal responsibility with some additional intervention such as school closures. The UK singularly seems to fail in this regard. My personal feeling is that "this is just not the pandemic people were looking for". It is a serious disease, but it is not 10% mortality SARS-CoV-1 serious. People would voluntarily be hiding indoors with those odds.
Lockdown is the least bad option (there are no good options). The effects of contact restriction are really now self-evident. The consequences to the economy and public health will become more evident as time passes. I believe the economy will bounce back relatively quickly. Look at the pent-up demand for travel, for example.
And the amount of savings people have accumulated. Some people have been hit badly but the majority have continued to "earn" pretty much as usual while spending much less. I haven't see UK numbers, French and German ones are impressive. A lot of this money governments have been printing and borrowing is sat in consumers' bank accounts.
@Edukator - a recent piece on Newsnight explained that the top 80% of society saved a lot, I think it was £170/pp/pm
Sadly the bottom 20% of society had to go into debt to get to work, pay the bills etc. The amount ~£170/pp/pm
Even with Covid the rich get richer and the poor struggle even more. It was very depressing.
Having [s] thought about this I can conclude that sadly [/s] [b] been asked questions I cannot /will not answer[/b] I’m now out.
FTFY.
Don't let the door hit you on your way out and at least be honest about your identity when you next come on to peddle your nonsense.
Probably none if you look at the long term picture.
You are Chuck Palahniuk and I claim my bar of soap
Bye.
Waiting for another long rant though as you seem to like the sound of your own opinion.
****....
Yeh, that just about sums up your argument
Obvious troll was obvious troll. Should have been kicked off earlier.
Well that certainly made some different context.
He had me when he claimed he was the only sane one.
Ed, vaccine choice is laudable particularly where it can be difficult to convince people of their safety.
Hope you don't suffer any bad side effects. 👍
RIP curlywurly, he was such a Maverick
EDIT: despite the SCUM comment, please don’t remove any posts.
Is it safe to come back?
Is it safe to come back?
For sure, he's off on a package holiday to Brazil where they've handled this thing properly :-/
I've been waiting for nearly 48 hours now and the defence comes down to 'do your own research'
Thanks @curlywhirly I defended you and listened to you and I now feel very let down.
Is there another website / forum I should go to that is less echo-chambery and might engage and answer my extremely reasonable questions?
Obvious troll was obvious troll. Should have been kicked off earlier.
It's not a troll. It's opinions just disagree with the group think on here. The majority of who are comfortably middle class and middle aged and have done well out of this with working from home/furlough. Being confined to decent sized houses with gardens, mainly in areas of the country where they can have pleasant exercise locally. All the while saving money they would have spent on commuting and the general costs of not working at home. You generally didn't even have to worry about catching covid as the risk to you was low.
Other than working from home/furlough I fit into the above but can see how what we've collectively done to those in their 20's and 30's who don't have the advantages we do was massively wrong. Many will suffer for years to come from the loss of jobs, loneliness, mental health problems, and debt caused by the lockdowns. I accept I'm in a minority thinking this way but the cost isn't worth it to prolong the lives of Boomers who were mainly in a position to mitigate their risks anyway.
Gribs - perhaps you missed his parting shot? Posting a pornographic image on this forum is beneath contempt.
There may well be a strong argument for allowing half a million people to die, and millions more to suffer ill health, rather than take the measures that have been taken. Make it if you wish. Be ready to answer questions. Don’t create a new account to do so though, and then paste the normal anti-everything talking points while refusing to engage on the very points you are “raising”.
it’s opinions just disagree with the group think on here.
it's fine to disagree, but you have to do it properly.
It's hard, there's an undeniable dogpiling mentality on here, all the more reason why you need to play by the 'rules', and be ready to engage in a way that can counter it.
But appear, raise a few controversial opinions, refuse to defend them against those that do engage reasonably, and then when your opinions are challenged or debunked disappear again citing calls of troll..... honestly what does it look like to you?
Another way:
As a 'new' user I would assume they preread at least part of the thread and had an idea what sort of environment they were entering. What was the purpose; they'd have known they'd get some pushback. They'd know they'd need to have a better argument and reasoning logic than previous 'pull the pin, run away' attempts to convince the bulk of opinions on here. If they didn't they were incredibly naive.
or - they knew EXACTLY what sort of response they'd get, and yet came on and did it anyway. What does that sound like?
As to being a returning user / new name - same comments hold, except they'd be well aware of the response they were likely to get. IF - I was a dissident and had tried previously to convince people, I'd learn from my 'mistakes' and come ready to try another way. If I was just in for shits and giggles, I'd do it time and again. And why not admit you're returning and ask for a chance to try and explain again.
TL;DR - something about ducks and quacking, I think.