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Does anyone have any insight as to how supposedly "covid-secure" workplaces are contributing to the spread of the virus?
Today I've seen 2 people in a van doing deliveries and another set to work on services (telephone lines). Businesses will most likely be approaching this from a resilience point of view, e.g. it's the same two people always working together (i.e. in a bubble). However all of these little interactions will still add up to create a viable transmission route for the country as a whole.
I get the feeling that the main spread of Covid will now be through workplaces. The mitigation measures have been delegated (by the Government) to individual companies, who will have their own operational interests as a priority rather than preventing transmission as a whole. They will want to be able to keep operating if people become ill and easily be able to isolate any infection. That doesn't stop the overall spread. It will slow it but it will keep going
My 'Covid secure' place of work has made the news....we've had so many positive cases this week that PHE are involved!
Looking forward to my shift later.
#plaguefactory
Does anyone have any insight as to how supposedly “covid-secure” workplaces are contributing to the spread of the virus?
I'm off with covid atm along with 2 others in our covid secure lab
So yeah, & masks & distancing are well enforced!
How? Even if the government shook the magic money tree to fund it, we haven’t got a magic doctors and nurses tree to actually deliver it.
Absolutely no idea.
All I'm saying is that you can't keep the populous in lockdown indefintely. So if the vaccination doesn't work to drop cases then we have look at that as a possibility for the future.
Does anyone have any insight as to how supposedly “covid-secure” workplaces are contributing to the spread of the virus?
I'm off with covid atm along with 2 others in our covid secure lab
& masks & distancing are well enforced!
So yeah,
Does anyone have any insight as to how supposedly “covid-secure” workplaces are contributing to the spread of the virus?
See.. this is where the government need to step up to the plate... they helped reassure people to return to the workplace last summer/autumn with their "covid-secure" language... but that is not secure as in "carry on during lockdown" it is only secure as in "carry on while other measures in place". They need to be telling employers that if they could have there staff working apart, or furloughed, during the first lockdown, then the same needs to happen now (and offer the support to make that happen). People should be returning to "covid-secure" workplaces only once we come out of lockdown, and back into other measures. Their kids should be returning to school then as well.
Feeling absolutely doom and gloom today. Maybe it’s the sh**ty weather. So grim recently 🙁
Try and get some sunshine. At least a walk outside. Really helps. Bleak midwinter innit (exactly midwinter, in fact for winter = Dec-Feb).
The study by PHE showing that in healthcare workers, infection provides better protection than the Oxford vaccine (at least for five months) is very welcome. 318/14000 naives vs. 44/6600 has a VE of 1 - (44/6600)/(318/14000) = 70.6%.
Carriage of virus is very interesting for vaccine outcome though. Sterile protection for transmission may be more of a challenge for the Oxford vaccine with the same protection.
So A_A and kimbers, welcome to natural immunity. You have better protection (but for how long) than the vaccine you are likely to receive. I hope you are both feeling better.
infection provides better protection than the Oxford vaccine
Wasn't there a theory that the longer interval between doses was responsible for the better performance of the 1/2 dose, full dose arm of the Oxford trial? If so the current 12w dosing gap might bring that vaccine's protection up to the level of the disease. Clutching at straws?
So we have less than 5 months to get everyone vaccinated? Otherwise it all goes a bit Forth Rail bridge...
So A_A and kimbers, welcome to natural immunity. You have better protection (but for how long) than the vaccine you are likely to receive. I hope you are both feeling better.
Feeling much better but still not right, thanks
Mark Drakeford, First Minister of Wales
We won’t get another delivery of the Pfizer vaccine until the very end of January or maybe the beginning of February, so that 250,000 doses has got to last us six weeks.
That’s why you haven’t seen it all used in week one, because we’ve got to space it out over the weeks that it’s got to cover.
Surely getting people vaccinated as early as possible is better?
between doses was responsible for the better performance of the 1/2 dose, full dose arm of the Oxford trial? If so the current 12w dosing gap might bring that vaccine’s protection up to the level of the disease. Clutching at straws?
That was a dosing error and wasn't very representative (no one over 55)?
Otherwise it all goes a bit Forth Rail bridge…
It will be anyway. New vaccinations every year, just as we do for flu, is to be expected. Perhaps this will kick the government into making both flu and coronavirus vaccines available to all from next winter.
Of course, if all countries had sought to keep prevalence as low as possible, then this virus might be where it was June last year in terms of (un)lucky mutations. The UK, Brazil and USA in particular had the means to hold this virus back, and chose not to. We could be in a much better place going into this initial vaccination period (counter argument is that the earliest vaccines might have taken longer to develop/test without large numbers of infections in those countries).
Mark Drakeford, First Minister of Wales
We won’t get another delivery of the Pfizer vaccine until the very end of January or maybe the beginning of February, so that 250,000 doses has got to last us six weeks.
That’s why you haven’t seen it all used in week one, because we’ve got to space it out over the weeks that it’s got to cover.
Surely getting people vaccinated as early as possible is better?
That is a slightly bizarre statement on the face of it and at odds with what Jason Leitch said in Scotland, which was to get it into the arms of as many people as fast as possible.
Seems unlikely annual vaccination won’t be a thing
But I read that 5 months thing as still having protection after 5 month, not stops at 5 months
So we have less than 5 months to get everyone vaccinated? Otherwise it all goes a bit Forth Rail bridge…
Not quite, the PHE study duration was only five months long, protection could wane, but I think over a year or two more likely. But it's definitely telling that reinfection is a thing, and past infection does not afford sterile protection (unlike measles for example). This is not at all unusual for coronaviruses. Could be worse, could be varicella (chickenpox/shingles).
I'm still optimistic, if I am honest. Strain escape may be a challenge but not in the form of the antigenic shifts shown by influenza which renders past infection/vaccination of little or no protection. Vaccines will still afford SOME protection (in fact possibly 2x more for the VOC mutation tested against Pfizer serum), certainly from severity of disease. That severity is what's keeping us indoors at home to prevent swamping healthcare. We will also have effective treatments for preventing severe infection in those who can't be vaccinated.
banlani-vi-mab is one such treatment. Remdesivir is not. Vi for antiviral btw. We've all laughed at that video at work 😀
At least a walk outside. Really helps.
Yea, I made it out at lunch time to clear my head. Being on my own at the moment as my partner has had to go to her parents to help care for them, isn't helping. Work is very very slow at the moment, and I don't see much changing for us soon as we rely heavily on manufacturing and projects which just aren't happening.
banlani-vi-mab
You're just trying to make them sound silly now, aren't you.
Reminds me of... Superlambanana
That was a dosing error and wasn’t very representative (no one over 55)?
Found the [url= https://www.bmj.com/content/372/bmj.n18 ]BMJ's[/url] write up on it
The trials of the Oxford-AstraZeneca vaccine did include different spacing between doses, finding that a longer gap (two to three months) led to a greater immune response, but the overall participant numbers were small. In the UK study 59% (1407 of 2377) of the participants who had two standard doses received the second dose between nine and 12 weeks after the first. In the Brazil study only 18.6% (384 of 2063) received a second dose between nine and 12 weeks after the first.3 The combined trial results, published in the Lancet,4 found that vaccine efficacy 14 days after a second dose was higher in the group that had more than six weeks between the two doses (65.4%) than in the group that had less than six weeks between doses (53.4%).
So >6w between doses is slightly better than a shorter interval but still not as effective as getting sick. But given the option I'd go for vaccine over infection.
So we have less than 5 months to get everyone vaccinated? Otherwise it all goes a bit Forth Rail bridge…
Im fully in the camp of the Tories will mess this up so bad that people will get one jab, then need a further two due to the gaps between jabs. And as a wfh 30 something I dont expect to get a jab any time this year.
I’m off with covid atm along with 2 others in our covid secure lab
So yeah, & masks & distancing are well enforced!
I really hope that you and your colleagues are OK
Are you saying that you've been getting infected despite recommended mask wearing and distancing being enforced, or are you saying your employer/colleagues can't or have not been complying with the requirements?
The answer puts a different spin on "Covid secure" workplaces - if they don't work despite following the guidelines, the guidelines are wrong and need reviewing. If employers or staff are simply not complying, then that's a H&S issue
Currently sat running early doing deliveries.....small park opposite has over 40 people in it. They're all parents with kids under 10 so I get that it's hardly crime of the century......doesn't really feel like a lockdown though does it?! Roads are rammed again too.
Oh well....I got a walk in this morning with the dog which cleared my head. Covid + brexit + the Tories really isn't great for mental health is it?!
Poor little bawbag shaped head Toby Young is frantically deleting his twitter rants regarding his stance on the virus over the previous year and now his torygraph enablers are ordered to print a retraction - odious little creep.
Odious creep gets a slap in the face
My misses is a primary school teacher in Swindon. Like most they were open for a day then switched to most teachers working from home and some teachers in plus some TAs to look after the 'key' children. She luckily has been working from home which has been going well with good feedback from parents. 11 of the staff left in school have now tested positive for Covid and they've just had a meeting saying all remaining teachers will be working from School when it reopens on Tuesday (they had to shut due to the outbreak). I don't know what management are smoking (or how Covid is infecting their brains, both the head and dep head are currently positive), but if there was ever a sign the workplace is not safe, an outbreak of 11 cases is pretty clear enough!
It's like a slow motion car crash, will be interesting to see how it plays out. I can imagine lots of legal cases and work to follow, lots of stress related time off. People don't seem to realise or care how dangerous sending their child to a still busy school is, they still have way too many children in each day (around 90 out of the usual 300).
It’s like a slow motion car crash
All staff (and large proportion of pupils) on site in Primary schools here. Don't blame "the management", it's government policy... yes, even where there is evidence of the virus circulating. I don't know how big your other half's school is, so what proportion 11 makes up... but more than 50% of my other half's fellow staff tested positive over the last four weeks.
they still have way too many children in each day (around 90 out of the usual 300)
That's much lower than some, sadly. It's bonkers.
Unless I caught it from walking the dog I must have got it supervising kids in school. Other than an acknowledgement of my email telling them I had covid and that I wouldnt be in work no one has been in touch to see how I am, says it all really.
I think there are around 50 members of staff and 20ish were in last week. It seems nuts to me, no wonder it is spreading so quickly! This misses is not impressed, particularly because her 60 year old uncle died on Wednesday due to covid.
Sorry to hear that. And yes, it seems nuts to me as well.
So finally travel corridors are closed.
So finally travel corridors are closed.
I wonder if this means a new even scarier variant or a vaccine resistant one?
As an explainer as to why Covid deniers get short shrift from many of us when they pop up on here… spreading lies has consequences…
https://twitter.com/itvnews/status/1349825262045835266?s=21
They need to prosecute the shit out of anyone abusing healthcare staff.
Absolute morons, what do they think their relatives are suffering from if not covid?
I wonder if this means a new even scarier variant or a vaccine resistant one?
Or cases are still not going down that much so they need to stop people coming in or out.
They need to prosecute the shit out of anyone abusing healthcare staff.
Absolute morons, what do they think their relatives are suffering from if not covid?
I mean this should happen covid or not... but never seems to, my sister in law (shes a dr) once got verbally abused my a patient whos life she saved.
Agreed, that's why I deleted the bit about at this time as it should happen all the time
Hear they have run out of ITU at Harlow. Something about Costa area being used as makeshift ITU.
People don’t seem to realise or care how dangerous sending their child to a still busy school is, they still have way too many children in each day (around 90 out of the usual 300).
It's objectively not dangerous for the kids and unlikely to be for the parents considering their likely age range. Many will have little choice anyway as they will still need to work.
Seem to have hit the peak in deaths now, give or take a couple of days or so. Whitty is talking about another week or two of course, but that's his job. And SAGE are weeks out of date with their R estimate as usual.
Absolute morons, what do they think their relatives are suffering from if not covid?
There's a patient in one of our ICUs (northern England) who came up from Kent after a positive test to see their rellys over new year - "its only like flu innit?"
At some point though would it not be worth a switch im tactics?
When all the 60yo+ have had one shot, start from the other end.
Its becoming obvious tjat school aged kids are super spreaders. The snowflakes ' im really scared of covid19,here have a hug to make you less scared' crew
They infect mum or dad, who infect work colleagues by touching a door handle, who infected granny as she is in the bubble, so must, therefore be safe.
Stop the kids being super shedders once you have the high mortality group inoculized.
Ok so longer to complete but quicker to squadh the r number in half
Genuine question… which vaccines have been tested on school age kids? And does it matter? Anyway, I can’t see the plan moving away from the at risk first, public facing workers second, other adults third.
Stop the kids being super shedders once you have the high mortality group inoculized.
Not sure it's been proved that the vaccine stops you spreading it?
Was out on the bike earlier doing the same route I did regularly during lockdown 1. Paths, parks and roads all busier than any time during then, even with it being near-zero outside with a chilly wind. The queue to get through the Mc Donald’s Drive Thru on Newport Road (Cardiff) was so long at 4pm that it blocked the junction completely. This lockdown is not working as lots of people are complacent now.
The one thing i genuinely struggle with is comments like this what are people supposed to do? In this example you can go for a bike ride (breathing on everyone you pass) but someone can't get in their car and get a McDs. I understand people seem to go from one extreme to the other with their emotions right now, but i still struggle with the judgment that gets passed on others at time.
Should happen anyway but especially now. A few high profile cases would have a great effect on most but sadly the proper scum who do it all the time (some of the druggies and alcoholics for example)
Also this, as the son of an alcoholic father these people are not "scum" they have health problems. Please pick your words with a little more thought.
I have started running with a mask on (respro one otherwise I would expire)as it makes me a bit happier when catching up with dawdlers and those who insist on walking in the middle of the path
https://twitter.com/NWDevonPolice/status/1350030020668960768
First decent swell since lockdown. Also visiting surfers confirmed from Gloucestershire and elsewhere in Devon but an hours drive away.
Slightly taking the p*** no?