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The two women in Derbyshire is all a bit fishy. The photos are copyright of one of them. Did they have a 3rd person or was it a staged photo on a timer so they could be 2m apart and looking sad?
Something doesn’t quite add up and I don’t mean overzealous police
Been my thought from the beginning there. I suspect one over reaction led to another from both sides.
It's fairly local to me. Still trying to figure out how you get to that location from 3 villages away via a Starbucks.....
Do they have Starbucks reusable cups they filled up themselves? I do. Probably mulled wine😎
Do they have Starbucks reusable cups they filled up themselves? I do. Probably mulled wine
On the list of my mild covid annoyances I can no longer use my keep cup at my local coffee shop.
Looks like tighter restrictions are on the way. All the usual papers have been briefed
What do we think then. Not allowed to meet someone else for exercise, support bubbles gone?
I assumed that photo was staged for the press after the actual incident.
Also assume it was a re-useable cup, who would pay good money for pepper mint tea! 😉
Not allowed to meet someone else for exercise, support bubbles gone?
I'd say so, mask to be worn in more outdoor settings too.
The thing is though, it's not going to make a dent in infections is it? They're stopping things where there is almost no spread, but do have an impact on mental health. Feels like there's other things to go after. And I'm not sure how they'll police it anyway.
Strictly defining (and therefore limiting) who can send kids to school would be a better place to start IMO.
And really pushing the "shopping for essentials only" narrative to stop people going to the shops just for some time out the house. Perhaps combined with reemphasising you can only leave the hosue once per day.
Edit, bubbles are an interesting one. No question some are abusing it, but they're essential for others. I have a friend who who is single, lives alone, works from home and has been in a bubble with his neighbour who's in a similar siutation. Take that away from him he'll really struggle.
I think exercise alone/bubble, nurseries close, stricter rules on which workplaces stay open and potentially a time limit on exercise.
I think time limit on exercise is pointless, but is more about signalling that the message is fundamentally stay at home
I’d really struggle without my bubble. My bubble is my GF who I don’t live with.
Currently live alone and working from home.
I’m already struggling with anxiety.
Maybe they could keep the bubble but make it a more formal arrangement so people can’t abuse it.
With regards to exercise even Chris Whitty says likelihood of outdoor transmission is very low and unlikely to make much difference to the R.
Issue is still indoor transmission.
Would be better to tighten up on indoor mask wearing, more protocols in work places and shops.
I hope they don't close bubbles personally, as it is def helping my mum to be able to come down.
Exercise limits would be a shame, def should restrict schools more and greater limits on shops
Seeing people thronging my local high street and park does boil my piss, but maybe a better response than cracking down on outdoor mixing would be to give proper support to people to isolate at home so they don't feel they have to work?
Funny how the Government who repeatedly said it was fine to break lockdown rules are now having trouble with people breaking lockdown rules...
I think time limit on exercise is pointless, but is more about signalling that the message is fundamentally stay at home
The point of a time limit is for people for whom 'exercise' involves driving somewhere, strolling around a bit, queuing up for a pancake and a coffee, sitting on a bench to consume it while having a chat with the person they've met up with, then driving home. Also known as a nice day out.
Sad for everyone who is happy to stick to the letter and the spirit of the regulations.
Perhaps combined with reemphasising you can only leave the hosue once per day.
That's never been in the guidance has it? Once per day for exercise, but still the other essential reasons as well?
I'm assuming tighter restrictions on what shops can open - basically food, medicine and care needs, closure of garden centres and takeaways, no meeting anyone outside of the household/bubble. Sounds like schools need the definition of key workers eligibility clarifying.
Clarity on exercise would help - alone, 1 hour door to door. Maybe clarify the definition of "local" to "the nearest".
Whatever they bring in, then clarity and getting people on board to go along with it are key. Enforcement will be tough in terms of resources and public attitudes without it.
One thing I don't understand is why the knee jerk reaction to tighter rules unless there is overwhelming evidence the whole country isn't sticking to it. We have been in a national lockdown around a week and are constantly told there is a "lag in the data" so any impact on the numbers won't be felt until like next week or maybe the week after. (im guessing im no analyst)
Takeaways wont shut as they means more furlough support, I think likely will be curfews and exercise on your own / household / support bubble.
Why are garden centres open? This has been puzzling me for months: there's a large place not far from us that's been packed leading upto Christmas and during the lockdown, it's a day out for some folks.
I'm struggling to understand the "essential" loophole here
Essential for the Tory voting Cotton-tops?
Why are garden centres open?
Gardening is some people's exercise, it is also some people's way of getting food, it is also some people's job so are there are legitimate reasons. I expect for most it is just an excuse to get out of the house. Before Christmas it was crazy, though. The one I popped into (for work) was 95% Christmas tat with the gardening stuff crammed into a shed at the back. That said it was pretty covid safe, big, open, well ventilated space, easy to maintain social distance.
Why are garden centres open?
One of two things that saw a massive spike in the first lockdown was gardening and DIY (gardening of course helped by the lovely spring weather).
I seem to remember nurseries (as in the plant growing places, not the childcare places) were arguing that to close garden centres would mean them destroying millions of plants that were destined for garden centres across the UK. I suspect partly for financial reasons (not having to compensate nurseries, not having to furlough garden centre employees) would help matters and I guess there's an argument there too about people's mental health.
Gardening is some people’s exercise, it is also some people’s way of getting food, it is also some people’s job so are there are legitimate reasons
Gardening is a huge mental health benefit for many people, especially older retired people who we like to kick on here, like my mum. If it was restricted to gardening products only, outdoor areas only, 2m distancing enforced it "should" be a relatively safe option. But
for most it is just an excuse to get out of the house
is also true
bubbles are an interesting one. No question some are abusing it, but they’re essential for others.
My in-laws are really taking the piss with this.
We're in London but they still had 12 people at Christmas dinner, because they are providing a 'support bubble' to both my wife's sisters (single mums) and their kids.
They were really mardy when we wouldn't go round there and made them come out to meet us in the woods on Boxing day.
Since then they've had a NYE Party and a birthday party for one of the kids with fireworks etc.
Makes me so mad.
Seems supermarkets are a concern within government.Makes sense given higher risk of indoors transmission, numbers and frequency of visits.
They were much better during the first lockdown at enforcing the one way systems and numbers inside.
They were much better during the first lockdown at enforcing the one way systems and numbers inside.
Totally agree. Shopping was a pleasure in April. So quiet and so much space. Went to Aldi yesterday and it was like a normal shopping day. Just grabbed a few bits and left sharply. I can see why the shops do it if they can get away with it. The tills were much busier. Mask wearing seems to have replaced social distancing
Since then they’ve had a NYE Party and a birthday party for one of the kids with fireworks etc
Either report them to the police or live with it.
Totally agree. Shopping was a pleasure in April. So quiet and so much space. Went to Aldi yesterday and it was like a normal shopping day. Just grabbed a few bits and left sharply. I can see why the shops do it if they can get away with it. The tills were much busier. Mask wearing seems to have replaced social distancing
More families shopping together as well. April/May people were always solo when they went shopping, now you see couples and families doing it together. More people = less space and more spreaders.
Think I've already said, but last Saturday morning the local Aldi and Tesco were almost back to April levels of calmness and space.
More families shopping together as well. April/May people were always solo when they went shopping, now you see couples and families doing it together. More people = less space and more spreaders.
That's still down to the supermarkets. If they are letting in say 100 people then whether they are together or not is largely irrelevant. Its the absolute number that is too high. I must admit I don't much care for the kids running around touching everything but I suspect it is fairly low risk and if we want to shut schools then this is the price.
If they are letting in say 100 people then whether they are together or not is largely irrelevant.
A bit shit for those who have to queue outside in subzero temps because some people are going for a trip out with the whole family.
I'm also of the opinion that queues lead to panic buying. If you've had to wait, you decide to "get a bit more" just in case, and you dont want to queue again in half a weeks time just because you need another milk. which then empties shelves, so the next person gets more panicked, and decides they need a months worth of flour and eggs and pasta because things must be getting worse again.
My daughter works in a supermarket 2 evenings a week. It's a posh one, in a posh town, and she feels pretty safe due to the measures in place. However - this aspect, when she has to do door duty is the bit she hates. It's one in one out on a clicker but the queue jumpers that ignore a 16 year old girl really upset her; she has identified that it generally fits a demographic of older-middle aged, posh looking, male and female and they're always 'just getting a couple of things' or 'in a hurry' when she challenges them. The security guard inside the doors seems to have a better hit rate though, and seems perfectly happy to march them to the end of the queue and the management are also absolutely deaf to protests.....
If that's any of us, just behave, eh?
Whatever happened to track & trace, is there a reason the supermarkets don't use it?
Just been reported on the news that there is a shortage of oxygen.
As TiRed has said unless you are witnessing first hand the results of not 'doing the right thing', eg a death of a close one, or knowing really close friend or relative who is one the NHS front line and working until they nearly drop, then 'some' people don't give a toss.
We saw a group of 10 out walking yesterday, no masks, all young all chatting together without a care in the world.
However can I stress that 'most' (the majority of) people are doing the right thing and using common sense. Obeying the flimsy rules and keeping themselves and others safe.
I think it may be more an inability to connect this rather nebulous threat with an actual risk to self.
Or if you like, stupidity not malice.
It's not stupidity or malice... it's the accumulation of mixed messages and misinformation... and that's not just a dig at the government, but also the media and "us"... the media, the public, and many politicians are happy to spread dangerous nonsense.
My other half has worked in a supermarket all the way through and has, almost constantly, had issues with customers being unable to flow basic rules of wearing a mask, keeping distance and following one way systems. One way systems have now been axed because the company thought it was too difficult for customers to work with!
She had issues with people literally pushing past her and reaching over/around to get to the shelves whilst she's filling them. Her response is to simply move out the way and wait patiently, which has attracted many comments such as "what's the problem?"
I wish I was making this up. She's worked in 2 stores one of which is in a well off area the other the opposite and mostly reports are the same.
Generally people are ok but she's had some really difficult confrontations because people are too entitled to care about anybody else.
One thing I don’t understand is why the knee jerk reaction to tighter rules unless there is overwhelming evidence the whole country isn’t sticking to it
The truth is, the government are clearly very concerned that cases, admissions and soon-to-be deaths have not yet turned over for the new variant. in fact cases appear to have stabilised somewhat, but the the new variant is spreading to the North and South West. Hence Lockdown2, which failed to reduce spread in London and the South East, has them worried (and rightly). The increase we are seeing now is partly the Christmas rollover when constraints were relaxed. Peak death is normally Week2 due to Christmas spread-around of other respiratory infections.
I would never countenance removing single-person bubbles. I don't think that has been abused, and for many it has been a lifeline. My stepfather meets my sister and her family (of six). My wife walks each week with her friend who is now a single covid widow.
As for exercise, well I walked for five hours this weekend. An hour would just mean head for the turbo. I could live with that, but then I work in a bedroom all week, and have been in the garage to exercise train, so that five hours is actually less than one hour per day.
I found this interesting
which had:
It asks 70,000 adults every week about the effects of the virus and social distancing and the responses on compliance are fascinating.
Women follow the rules more closely than men. White people follow them more than people from ethnic minorities. Richer people tend to be less compliant. So do key workers and 18-to-29-year-olds.
Rates of compliance are lower in England, in urban areas, and among adults living with children.
And they are all above average drivers 😉
Generally people are ok but she’s had some really difficult confrontations because people are too entitled to care about anybody else.
I think this one paragraph sums it up nicely I'm afraid..
I'm unique, just like everybody else.
Also
https://ourworldindata.org/covid-vaccinations
Current UK vaccination rate is shown as ~750 per million per day.
I make that about 1333 days until vaccination complete. I hope we can get that rate up a bit...
I’m assuming tighter restrictions on what shops can open – basically food, medicine and care needs, closure of garden centres and takeaways, no meeting anyone outside of the household/bubble. Sounds like schools need the definition of key workers eligibility clarifying.
That would be a good place to start from. I would be perfectly happy with being limited to 1 trip out of the house per day and allowed to keep 1 support bubble for single households or carer (elderly or childcaring) responsibilities. The queues round the block near-constantly for KFC, Burger King, McDonald's and the Starbucks Drive-Thru really boil my piss as people are obviously going out for just that and some are even filling the car up with friends.
Be interesting to see how far the govt can think they can go vs what actually needs to be done.
My daughter works in a supermarket 2 evenings a week. It’s a posh one, in a posh town, and she feels pretty safe due to the measures in place. However – this aspect, when she has to do door duty is the bit she hates. It’s one in one out on a clicker but the queue jumpers that ignore a 16 year old girl really upset her; she has identified that it generally fits a demographic of older-middle aged, posh looking, male and female and they’re always ‘just getting a couple of things’ or ‘in a hurry’ when she challenges them. The security guard inside the doors seems to have a better hit rate though, and seems perfectly happy to march them to the end of the queue and the management are also absolutely deaf to protests…..
Had the exact same issues with the supermarket I worked in for a while. They would put a 16-17 year old (usually female, customers prefer a female face and voice apparently) and you would just get people ignoring them and pushing past. Put the security guard there, especially the one who is a bodybuilder, and it was almost 100% compliance! Some people are just completely ignorant of what is going on and don't stop to think whether what they are doing is right or not.
Anyone working to keep the shelves stocked so we can all live safely is putting up with a lot of stress right now so deserves our thanks.
The queues round the block near-constantly for KFC, Burger King, McDonald’s and the Starbucks Drive-Thru
Pick your battles, a drive-thru is the least of our issues.
I make that about 1333 days until vaccination complete. I hope we can get that rate up a bit…
The big national sites are in operation today and will be open 12 hours a day, plus further surgeries/pharmacies.
Give them a week or two to build up to capacity and the numbers will go up significantly.
Then give it a couple of weeks after that for the vaccines to become effective, and in a months time we'll see if its works or not.
Women follow the rules more closely than men. White people follow them more than people from ethnic minorities. Richer people tend to be less compliant. So do key workers and 18-to-29-year-olds.
I would love to know how that bold bit is calculated. Is it based on fines (which we know are handed out disproportionately or is it a cohort within the 70k who are being very honest in their self assessment.
As for exercise, well I walked for five hours this weekend. An hour would just mean head for the turbo. I could live with that, but then I work in a bedroom all week, and have been in the garage to exercise train, so that five hours is actually less than one hour per day
This I agree with, I went for a ride on the weekend about 4 odd hours stayed localish but I spent the mass majority of my time in my kitchen working or sofa watching tv.
Also, as a general question anyone know how many vaccines need to be done before we start to see the impact in cases?
I would love to know how that bold bit is calculated.
It's not. It's a survey of people self identifying their behaviour... hence TiReD's joke about more than half of the population saying they are above average drivers.
It's not valuable data... it could mean that the white people questioned were less likely to know they're not following the rules, or less likely to admit that they are... or just that the survey didn't include enough non-white people, or a wide enough distribution of them, to meaningfully compare their answers to the those given by the white respondents.
Also, as a general question anyone know how many vaccines need to be done before we start to see the impact in cases?
If all of the priority groups receive their first jab by mid Feb, and it takes ~2 weeks for it to become effective, then I'd be expecting an improvement in March.
That would be ~15 million vaccinations
Probably at ~1.5-2m at the moment, but there should be an update later today.