it amazes me that even in a full on pandemic where selfishness has been criticised within this very thread that people have use other peoples potential plight as a platform for their politics.
If 'we' were taking this as seriously as other countries then I would have no issue. None.
Joris and his puppet master cannot expect to be an outlier on something like this whilst attracting no criticism - given their track record on telling lies and manipulating people.
Last post on this line of argument from me. I agree that it is not helpful right now.
Time to move on?
Shut this thread and split it out:
Virus - the self help and happy one
With a better title - the Q & A / general chat with a bit of gallows humour
Virus - the bear pit
Rants, conspiracy and general venting.
I was awake last night, and you know sometimes your brain goes into overdrive when you can't sleep... Well, I had this idea that this is all a press conspiracy coming from somewhere! I'm the last person to believe in conspiracies, so I think I'm probably going nuts, but does anyone on here know a single person who has contracted this virus? Or even know anyone who knows anyone??
the only evidence I've seen of it are empty shelves in shops caused by press over-reaction.
Everything else is just hearsay. People seem to have gone ****ing hysterical. And yet..?
I went to the cinema last night and it was packed. So maybe not everyone.
It's coming across as a bit "keep a stiff upperlip" from the govt with the same attitude to the general population as the generals in WW1 and the frontline troops.
They'll only start panicking once special people like themselves start dying.
The company I work for on top of an absolute global travel ban has now asked all staff in the uk to work from home if they are able.
That's were we're at too. Total global office closure aside from vital roles who cannot wfh, international travel ban and all but domestic business critical external visits also banned.
We're fortunate to be set up as a largely mobile workforce, but it's going to have a huge impact on business due to the knock on effect of the rapidly evolving economic challenges.
If ‘we’ were taking this as seriously as other countries then I would have no issue. None.
Those two scientist blokes either side of Boris seemed pretty convincing. What makes you think our science isn't better than some others and we are on the right track?
Time to move on?
Shut this thread and split it out:
Virus – the self help and happy one
With a better title – the Q & A / general chat with a bit of gallows humour
Virus – the bear pit
Rants, conspiracy and general venting
Nah, leave it as it is.
I'll give the political angle a miss on this thread from now on.
That doesn't mean not commenting on the fact that we ARE an outlier in our response, but it does mean resisting the temptation to stick an anti-Joris boot in at the end.
Fair enough?
Those two scientist blokes either side of Boris seemed pretty convincing. What makes you think our science isn’t better than some others and we are on the right track?
The comparison to the majority of other nations' responses.
I've never been a keen gambler.
Can't possibly be news that in the face of a national health emergency the armed forces are being prepped to step in and provide assistance?
That's what every country does in times of potential crisis
Nah, leave it as it is.
Definitely. Easy to avoid the hysterical rantings. Which I will be from now.
The article in the Guardian from scientists about the Govt's scientific position is pretty clear. Without a peer review it's not real science, it's just 2 boffins doing what Boris says. If they open the data up for scientific scrutiny by a handful of experts, then the scientific community could help with the messaging around this by being more supportive and vocal.
The current Govt approach is that we've baked a cake using special ingredients and it's a great cake. No you cannot look at the ingredients, or the cake, you just have to believe us when we say it's the best cake ever and you're really going to like it.
but does anyone on here know a single person who has contracted this virus? Or even know anyone who knows anyone??
Yes.
Everything else is just hearsay. People seem to have gone **** hysterical. And yet..?
I went to the cinema last night and it was packed. So maybe not everyone.
So, you went to the cinema and were perplexed that other people also went to the cinema. Were you expecting to be the only person there? I suspect there's a sizeable chunk of the population who are either very stoical about it all or simply aren't taking it seriously.
Anyway, this from the Guardian is quite a good explanation of why UK government policy is currently what it is:
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/mar/12/uk-governments-coronavirus-advice-and-why-it-gave-it
Without a peer review it’s not real science, it’s just 2 boffins doing what Boris says. If they open the data up for scientific scrutiny by a handful of experts, then the scientific community could help with the messaging around this by being more supportive and vocal.
Indeed, Hunt was making the same point… if we’re delaying social distancing because otherwise, as no 10 is briefing, people will give up on it when the pandemic is at its peak… let’s see the data and research that decision is based on.
Ok boomer
Wow, you tried hard there, didn't you? I don't think anyone has said that before.
The trouble with shutting schools, is when do you re-open them? September?
anyone on here know a single person who has contracted this virus?
How would you know? Testing is limited and is being scaled down. I went to Venice the end of January, a week later had the flu.
What did I have and how would anyone know?
Those two scientist blokes either side of Boris seemed pretty convincing. What makes you think our science isn’t better than some others and we are on the right track?
Also, I'm interested in what makes you think our science is better than others.
As an outlier you should always expect more scrutiny.
but does anyone on here know a single person who has contracted this virus? Or even know anyone who knows anyone??
A visitor to the 8th floor of our building. Everybody he came in contact with is now WFH for 14 days. The places he went are being deep cleaned.
The government advice seems like a reasonable approach to me.
We have cancelled FiL's 80th birthday celebration this week. There were a lot of vulnerable people invited and it didn't seem fair to make them have to make the decision themselves. Also, wouldn't want to be responsible for passing anything on. A few of us work in London and we're all asymptomatic but not worth risk.
The trouble with shutting schools, is when do you re-open them? September?
Schools could be shut for 8 weeks with no impact on education. Bring the summer holiday forwards and join with easter holiday and you get 8 weeks. Parents would have to deal with 8 weeks anyway, it will just be at a different time.
Talked to my son yesterday (works in a London hospital), he said they had confirmed cases all over the hospital and that they were being isolated.
My local pub has many tradesmen (most with kids), some (boarding school) teachers, a good few elderly and some obese, a few unemployed youths who spend time at the skate park. The ventilation isn't brilliant and the pub gets packed when sport is on the box. Ciggies get passsed around outside. The process of handling money, glasses, antiquated loos with an airblade drier, coughing ignoramuses, close contact all strike me as the basis for a perfect storm in terms of multiple contacts across the community and vulnerable people.
I've stopped going and that decision seems supported by government advice in other countries. And today is the 13th.
Parents would have to deal with 8 weeks anyway, it will just be at a different time.
There's a big difference between 8 weeks when you have arranged childcare eg. holiday clubs and grandparents helping, to 8 weeks with no childcare options at all available. Not complaining - just pointing out there is a BIG difference between dealing with a standard school holiday versus what we might be facing.
Schools could be shut for 8 weeks with no impact on education.
Except for those kids doing GCSEs and A-levels this year, which need to be graded in time for September so they can go on and do the next thing...
And today is the 13th.
I've got root canal today. What could possibly go wrong...
Schools could be shut for 8 weeks with no impact on education
That is so not true, it's painful.
When do the GCSE's take place? Late July?
Actually, help/support thread might be a good idea.
As this is mostly bickering
just pointing out there is a BIG difference between dealing with a standard school holiday versus what we might be facing
But the problem is mostly about disturbing the plans of adults, not the ability to educate children. If exams get pushed to August though, it will cause big problems for colleges and universities… but as for everything else, the alternative is likely to be bigger problems. I’m still planning on schools having an extended Easter Break… but like everyone else, I can’t even begin to plan for the summer holidays being moved… but if there is a chance that means that my diabetic son can avoid exposure, especially when the NHS is being most strained, it seems a small hassle.
And can you tell me in what way this is different to a normal day on the high street, tube, railway station, bus station, shopping centre, etc?
Do you think those should be shut down also?
(Tube, bus, trains all more dangerous as they are in a confined space)
Euston station was eerily quiet on Wednesday afternoon - the normally standing-room-only quiet carriage had about six people in it. In Birmingham I take the bus - not as spectacularly different as the train was, but busses are definitely quieter, was speaking to a bus company chap at the weekend and they'd already seen a sizeable drop in coach travel.
Nah, leave it as it is.
I’ll give the political angle a miss on this thread from now on.
Definitely. Easy to avoid the hysterical rantings. Which I will be from now.
I thought the page count jumped since I last looked, I take it not worth reading back then?
As someone further up the thread put, it all feels very weird to me.
The only thing I see are the result of the panic, a few empty shelves, a very quiet train to work and LinkedIn being super quiet as everyone is off work.
And yet, despite having loads of food in (as normal), a manageable amount of loo roll (again, as normal), I feel obliged to dive out and fill the cupboards up.
Might go for a pint of 3 later, just to offer support to my local pub.
The Mrs gets the train to work every day. Usually rammed. Standing room only. Friday's are a bit quieter but still very busy.
She said it was virtually deserted today
There were still coach loads of grannies being dumped off for a day out in Skipton this week. Be interesting to see if that dries up. I would hope so!
Sure I read somewhere that more lives have been saved in China thanks to the reduced air pollution, than have been lost due to the coronavirus...
There were still coach loads of grannies being dumped off for a day out in Skipton this week. Be interesting to see if that dries up.
They already have, they don't call them crusties for nothing
So, the "strategy" is to "flatten the curve" and "delay the peak" etc etc. Can someone tell me what in practice this means? What are we doing that is different from what Italy did before their cases rocketed?
Or is it, you know, just Johnson bullshitting?
The best and most chilling thing I’ve seen on this was the interview on C4 news with an epidemiologist who compared it to WWII. We’ve heard a lot of romanticising of that recently in relation to brexit, but if he’s right then we’re all going to soon understand what it means. Normal life is over, things are going to change massively and they’re going to stay that way for a while. We can either accept it and start playing our part, or keep our heads in the sand. I know what I’m going to do.
Wow, you tried hard there, didn’t you? I don’t think anyone has said that before.
About as hard as you tried with the 'Lemsip will fix it' TBF.
I prefer that outlook two dogs, but as I've kept saying to the milanese meltdown predictors, it's all pure conjecture at the moment. There simply isn't the data to predict it. Who ever turns out to be right it'll be luck not judgement.
The government's getting a lot of flack for being a "outlier". If, as has been claimed, they were being cynical bastards, or really didn't have a clue, they might as well have just done the same as everywhere and avoided the criticisms.
Also, as has been pointed out above, individuals and organisations are already taking a lot of action to slow the spread. All of their own free will and without the need for police roadblocks or troops on the street. The most effective measures will be carried out because individuals think its the right thing to do, not because somebody in authority tells them to.
I'd like to share my experience of having (admittedly untested but more on that later) coronavirus. It may allay some fears, but its left me with a lot of questions.
Thursday last I was in a meeting for 2.5hrs with a guy just back from Austria. He had a constant dry cough and admitted to a temperature. We repeatedly asked him to go home, but he's the director and refused. I opened all the windows and sat as far away as possible. He was off sick Friday through to middle this week.
Funnily enough Friday evening I started to feel a bit rough, onset of a cold type of thing, achy, and start of a cough. Not too bad over the weekend, went to work Monday, went home Monday afternoon. Monday evening had a temperature, ached all over, hot and cold sweats, constant dry cough. All the symptoms. Felt properly flu-ey, not man-flu.
Did NHS111 online Tuesday morning. Because I'd not had contact with someone from an infected area (Austria was deemed safe then) it jus said to contact my GP. I got a phone consultation, and basically because I don't have underlying health conditions, hadn't been abroad and hadn't been in contact with anyone from an infected area I was told to take paracetamol and drink water. That was it.
I was pretty rough until yesterday when I started feeling much better. I still have the cough but an annoyance now - it had got to the points where my ribs really ached. Bit tired and a bit shrt of breath. I won't be out riding, but can function normally. So basically 4-5 days of feeling pretty shit. Reckon I'll be OK for work on Monday.
Now - questions:
Should I be pushing to get tested? BBC are saying not to phone 111 but use the online service as they are inundated. If I'm getting better I don't want t waste their time. But I want to know if I'm infectious.
Interesting GP wouldn't confirm I was likely CV-19, but didn't say not. I though it may just be seasonal flu to start but 5 people from my office are off with same. Symptoms are exact match. My suspicion is they only want to test if you are likely to suffer further ie have underlying conditions. Govt are saying 600 confirmed cases but they suspect 5-10,000 actual. Is this because most peoples experience is like mine, and we are best just left to get on with it?
The key question for me - what now? How long should I self-isolate? I can't find any official advice about recovery. I've been home all week. My wife has no symptoms, my daughter (24) has had very very mild (bit achey, occasional cough). Should they be isolated too? Obviously keen not to pass on to family / colleagues.
Anyway the good(ish) news is if youre 50, average fitness, you'll get a dose of flu. That's it. Bit of a pain and a week off work.
Should I be pushing to get tested?
They won't test you because they aren't interested in numbers now - it doesn't help plan any response.
This is the big question for me. Like you I was ill in a normal every day sense, but if I had COVID-19 then how would I know, and how do I know how long I needed to isolate for?
So, the “strategy” is to “flatten the curve” and “delay the peak” etc etc. Can someone tell me what in practice this means? What are we doing that is different from what Italy did before their cases rocketed?
Well, there's the thing.
The measures being enacted elsewhere are designed to do that too, so who is right?
No one is pretending that they can stop this any more and nor is anyone saying that they are just adopting a 'let it run wild to get it over with' approach either.
So the end goals are the same, but we are the outlier.
To my mind that begs questions.
About as hard as you tried with the ‘Lemsip will fix it’ TBF.
but
I was told to take paracetamol and drink water.
Medical advice! Who knew?
You won't be tested unless you are actually in a hospital bed. Unless you are that ill, the approach won't be any different. Go home, stay home for a week.
Watch porn, and Netflix
So, the “strategy” is to “flatten the curve” and “delay the peak” etc etc. Can someone tell me what in practice this means? What are we doing that is different from what Italy did before their cases rocketed?
We are nowhere near the exponential rate of cases seen on the epidemic spike at the moment.
If you start measures now, it does nothing except start people's annoyance early. If you wait until it really ramps up, then it has more of an effect and hopefully keeps the number of cases requiring critical care under the total number of critical care beds.
I’m still planning on schools having an extended Easter Break…
I'm with you... Makes sense and allows exams to, hopefully, take place as normal (or as normal as it can be this year).
Students sent home from Loughborough Uni today I hear due to a confirmed case.
Just waiting to see if daughter #1 is sent back from Leeds.
Big difference between university students being sent home and secondary school though as the uni students can obvs look after themselves
I think Germany has shut uni's.
Anyway the good(ish) news is if youre 50, average fitness, you’ll get a dose of flu. That’s it.
Sadly that’s not the case (sorry for FB link)
