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Why are certain scientists and a lot of politicians saying that things are going to be ‘normal’ by spring?
That probably comes down to prioritising consumerism over reality - it's all going to be fine and if it's not it's that nasty other thing with that lot over there not respecting our sovereignty. Spring is the new Autumn which was the new Summer after Wave One. There might also be something to do with short-termism being endemic in the way we approach things at the moment. Everything is just in time, luckily that was when vaccine has turned up.
I am wondering how the rest of the world views the UK arriving at the front of the vaccine delivery queue in a similar style to when Boris flattened that poor kid 'playing' rugby.
For me normal or less constraints has to be at least one vaccination cycle away - things aren't going to be back to normal soon if we have to drop onto another round of protect the vulnerable (again). The scientific advisors seem a lot more grounded and measured. Unfortunately No10 seems to favour jingoistic bollocks over practical reality. I'm still amazed Boris is still going for run around being the best approach to Christmas. Feels a bit like part of loosening the restrictions is so the MPs aren't getting harangued for breaking then. No rules for anyone means there aren't different rules for some; the legacy of Mr Cummings goes to Barney.
Why are certain scientists and a lot of politicians saying that things are going to be ‘normal’ by spring?
They won't. It is irresponsible to raise expectations based on limited (i.e., "World-class") vaccine roll-out promises. 2H21 we MAY be going on foreign holidays. International conferences next year will be virtual again. I'm pretty sure of that.
Normality will be 2H21 to 1Q2022. Sorry if that is harsh, but better to be honest.
2022? Nah, I'm out.
Thought my reply was more diplomatic AA 😂
Good on you teachers.
My wife sat across the table from me this morning at 6am, eating a piece of toast whilst continuing with her marking. "All the staff are so tired", she said. "I know we always are by the end of term, but this is so much more".
And don't get me started on the variety and severity of children's mental health issues she's had to deal with this year. We're talking front line first responder stuff.
So yes it does grate to hear all the moaning about schools.
Anyone taking their kids, especially school age teens, to see grandparents for Christmas need their heads looking at. I may be being too harsh there
The point I was trying to make before the knee jerk kicked in. You weren't being too harsh, you were being realistic.
I feel like we’re in a worse position now than we were in March when it all began
We really aren't. Back in March there was no guarantee of any vaccine, no therapeutics for treatment of severe disease, and only non-pharmaceutical intervention options for control. Now we have at least one approved vaccine, more than one approved treatment, better management, and a realistic expectation of return to eventual normality. Don't be sold on political promises. The science has been clear, the timescale has been clear but unpalatable (to politicians), and the outcome is looking more assured.
Think of it has the end of the third innings of a test series. The fourth innings will be global implementation.
Think of it has the end of the third innings of a test series. The fourth innings will be global implementation
I've always hated cricket.
I’ve always hated cricket.
Me too, let's hope this disnae end in a draw.
My daughters' school has just moved to all online teaching (except children of key workers or those who don't have facilities at home) as the number of staff self-isolating or sick makes it impractical to deliver lessons in school. I think this is a good thing overall and hope it will take some of the pressure off the teachers as they won't be having to teach half and half.
The school and my mum's care home have been excellent throughout all this.
I’ve always hated cricket.
I accept that Boris is playing it like 20-20, but we're in a pretty reasonable place at the moment. It might not feel it sometimes.
stcolin
Full MemberI feel like we’re in a worse position now than we were in March when it all began 🙁
We're definitely not though. I suppose it depends how you think about it. If we could reset the clock to March and basically, do stuff right that obviously should have been done the first time- fast restrictions, protect care homes, proper PPI procurement, more effective lockdowns, track and trace that works (and not wasting all the money), postponing brexit so that we can deal with one disaster at a time, better management of furlough and support for small businesses and hospitality, then yeah, we'd be better off now. Not talking about hindsight- this was just foresight at the time. A lot of critical opportunities have been pissed away and made things way worse than they had to be, or should have been. So it's bad, to be almost a year down the line, and to have done so much self harm. And possible worst of all, that they've basically got away with it.
But. We can't get those back, those opportunities were all not just wasted but killed and thrown in the bin. So without a time machine, we're better off now with so much actual progress having been made- much of it elsewhere, practically none of it because of our government- than we were at the start.
Nope no support down here in Kent. Schools relying on social media it seems to find out government objectives.
+1 My wife is a teacher in North Kent (Sevenoaks) and she generally finds out about policy changes via Facebook before they're told at work.
My wife sat across the table from me this morning at 6am, eating a piece of toast whilst continuing with her marking. “All the staff are so tired”, she said. “I know we always are by the end of term, but this is so much more”.
+! - had exactly the same conversations in our house - i genuinely don't know how she does it.
And don’t get me started on the variety and severity of children’s mental health issues she’s had to deal with this year. We’re talking front line first responder stuff.
So yes it does grate to hear all the moaning about schools.
+1 - My other half is a SENCo in a big secondary school - i honestly think she's going to have PTSD after this..
Please consider before slamming the schools, that they are under immense pressure from parents and the government,both pulling in opposite directions a lot of the time. They are being told to run both online and in person lessons whilst constantly contingency planning and dealing with complaining parents.
This is on top of their normal workload that they’ve been overworked and underpaid for for years.
There are only 2 options, self isolation or go to school.
My kid is now in the last 10 of 35 in his class... he still has to go into school or we will be fined.
He came home saying he'll be there till he catches the virus and his friends are already self isolating.
How does it even make sense to teach a class of 10 (and based on trends 2-3 by the end of next week) when 25 are self isolating?
Nope no support down here in Kent. Schools relying on social media it seems to find out government objectives.
More kids sent home from my kids class today (Now only 10 left) .. email sent and doesn't even tell you if your kid is being sent home. Turns out not.
@stevextc - are you aware that individual teachers don't set the rules for the school, the LEA, the country?
Moaning about teachers is like having a pop at the local MoT garage for the crap design of Ford Fiesta brakes. Unwarranted and misguided at best.
Dose ranging showed a reduced response in older adults
Why not give it to the young? If we have a portfolio of vaccines, why must they all work for all age groups?
I feel like we’re in a worse position now than we were in March when it all began
We are in a much better position… we know so much more… BUT we were lucky that the first wave coincided with a pleasant spring… now it is winter, we need to do more, not less, to protect the NHS and save lives. If you’re not working over Christmas, or can work from home… STAY AT HOME… NHS staff will thank you on the first few months of next year.
doesn’t even tell you if your kid is being sent home
We were in the same position, so kept our son off… two days into home learning we received notification that he should stay away… back dated to before we pulled him out. If you are worried, act, there is no chance in hell the school will take any action against you with so many close contacts already told to stay home. We also kept him away for a few extra days after he was cleared to return.
(Never mind)
@stevextc – are you aware that individual teachers don’t set the rules for the school, the LEA, the country?
I'm not moaning about teachers... the emails look like they are being created for them by PHE.
I'm asking how is it even sane to teach a class in school until there are no students left.
At the least it would seem if over 50% of the children are self isolating then it would be a lot simpler and easier to teach online?
The class passed that and now has 10/35 but they continue.
The bit that looks like the school wrote it is the bit threatening fines (absence policy) if he doesn't attend.
I would add it was too much trouble to actually say if our child was being sent home or not.
Names, emails and telephone removed by me...
(forgive formatting copy/.paste from PDF)
We have been made aware of a member of our school community who has tested positive for
COVID 19 in Year 7.
We know that you may find this concerning; please be assured that we have acted promptly and
that we will continue to monitor the situation closely. Since being made aware of the positive test
result, we have spoken with Public Health England to seek advice as to how we should proceed.
We have conducted our track and trace process, and as a result, have asked some Year 7
students to isolate. The school remains open, and your child should continue to attend as normal if they remain well.
It is vital that you remind your children to really try and keep their distance from their friends on the
way to and from school and at break/lunch times. Unfortunately, there is not a lot we can do when
the students are in lessons, as they have to sit near each other.
This is even more important because if your child comes in close contact with a student who tests
positive from tomorrow onwards their self-isolation period will include Christmas Day and I know
that this is the last thing that you and they will want.
We would also take this opportunity to remind parents and carers of the school absence policy.
If your child should test positive between Friday 18th December and Christmas Day please contact
either myself on <someone>@xxx.surrey.sch.uk or 01483 XXXX XXX or email Mr XXXX
<head> @xxx.surrey.sch.uk as the school office will be closed from 12.30pm next
Friday. We are obliged to conduct contracting for any positive cases right through until Christmas
Day.
You are the parent. If you feel that they should be remote learning now, make it so. Stop moaning (and I’m saying that even though I agree with all your complaints)… act.
Kelvin
You are the parent. If you feel that they should be remote learning now, make it so. Stop moaning (and I’m saying that even though I agree with all your complaints)… act.
I'm not particularly concerned for myself.
I just went through the cancer scare for one thing and came to the conclusion if I die I die.
By the time of my biopsy I was pretty past caring.
What I did find very upsetting was the two grandparents from a kid at another school that died.
This was picked up by the local rag but I've heard nothing since.
What happened to the kid? I'm assuming he wasn't living with grandparents for kicks... but not heard a peep about what happened to him.
This really upset me. Imagine the poor kid knowing he in some way killed his grandparents and having no family. It also made me very angry... I assume the other school is writing similar letters to it's parents and carers.
I spent most of secondary with the constant threat of social services taking me away from my mum and it was not a nice experience.
I also saw a different side to testing when I was trying to get my biopsy... I couldn't even have a pre-op covid test if anyone in my household were self isolating.. and then turning up I had to go through the same again and a normal temperature to even get the test.
This made me realise just how biased the testing is to not having positives... I assume my negative test will add to the stats but I could only get the test if the chance of it being positive was incredibly low.
Sage advised extra support for North of England four months ago…
https://twitter.com/danbloom1/status/1337447483891453953?s=21
That is such a depressing story Steve. And it will be far from unique. Awful.
My kids schools are both in Kent Tier 3 , even though we are in Sussex. Both have emailed us saying they are not allowed to close, but if we keep our kids at home next week for isolation pre Xmas, no action will be taken (oh and please let us know your intentions so we can plan lessons)
That’s as much of a “Please read between the lines” as they could get away with. We’ve had a discussion with the kids and they are staying home.
The government have given permission for someone such as my 81 year old mother to have a full Christmas.
She will have her (other daughter), son in law and the teenage grandson. Also her partner who doesn't live with her and has his own family. He will no doubt go home from being with her on Christmas day and see his own grandchildren all in the 23rd - 27th December free for all. She is putting herself at risk so near to having half the vaccine.
She gets really cross if I try to say that this is a huge mistake. So I have to step back and hope that other parties visiting her house don't bring the virus in with them.
Worrying times to come.
threats of fines and having the kids taken into care
Going back a few steps, has anyone actually heard of fines being issued?
And I can tell you, as the husband of a social worker, there is not a snowballs chance in hell of kids being taken into care for not going to school at the moment
Thanks for the best wishes above. MIL is doing as well as can be expected, off the oxygen & antibiotics (yay) but sleepy when not coping with nurses or visitors.
She's still not eating well and it looks like she's running slowly and calmly down to end of life.
We hope to see her twixt Christmas and New Year but we accept that this may not happen. Staff at the hospital and taxi drivers were brilliant for Mrs S. (Top tip, Regency Cars are the go to taxi company for a run into town from Aldergrove, much cheaper than the companies listed on the airport website).
@bunnyhop - that's tricky but even though things are a bit shit, you have trust your family to do the right thing and prepare for Xmas by being extra careful. I get really annoyed by a lot of stuff but I really do believe that most people are behaving responsibly.
You have to trust people. If they let you down then just leave them out of your life. For your Mum, its understandable that she wants some kind of Xmas as we've all had a shit year.
I spoke to my dad tonight. He is either having a quiet one with just my mum and her mum, or just Christmas day with my brother and his family. That seems okay, but my mum and dad will be seeing plenty of visits from my nephews as my brother works right up Christmas. That concerns me more I think. I didn't have the heart to tell him I'll be on my own for a week over Christmas. Not looking forward to it one bit. It's going to be so hard for many.
@stevextc - what school are you (if you don't want to name pm or give a clue) as your phone number makes you local to me.
stcolin - I really think you should talk to your brother. Maybe he could forgo seeing your/his parents (especially as they are ignoring the 3 household rules) and make the visit to you instead. Hard decisions for everyone at this time.
Good luck.
Please keep posting on here, even on Christmas day there will be people around. You can get in touch with me if you like. Harry the spider has my phone number. Call me please.
Just seen an email sent from the head of our local school to our local Conservative greasy pole climbing idiot of an MP. To say the head isn't happy over the differences in the way the North and South have been treated is an understatement. He's the absolute opposite of the unionised left wing firebrand as well, usually very calm, measured, great with the kids and really supportive of achievement in all forms, not a political beast.
I must admit I agree with him, I always thought the Westminster bubble was a bit of a myth but the way they've dealt with Covid couldn't have made it clearer they do not give a stuff about anyone north of Milton Keynes.
but the way they’ve dealt with Covid couldn’t have made it clearer they do not give a stuff about anyone north of Milton Keynes.
Lots of evidence that’s not the case re schools, friends sister and brother in law both have COVID, he’s a teacher in a SE London school, most classes off and they wanted to close as it’s only a matter of time before all the staff left to teach and the remaining 2 classes have to isolate. No they have to stay open.
Similar situations with family in Kent and Sussex.
Nope Jake Berry.
Oops, I thought you were Calderdale like me.
Our MP is an absolute disgrace. He's just an old fashioned nasty Tory bully. Given the diversity of the people he is supposed to represent his voting record is overty misogynistic, borderline homophobic and mildly racist. It's almost like he's never been to any of the towns in his constituency.
but the way they’ve dealt with Covid couldn’t have made it clearer they do not give a stuff about anyone north of Milton Keynes.
Yes because not imposing any suitable control measures on London, to keep the economy ticking over, has been great for the region, tube staff, teachers, service workers have all loved the greater chance of getting ill and dying. They don’t give a stuff about anyone who isn’t in their loop or can pay them off - period.
News from my West Yorkshire barber shop is that most older folks are making the xmas decision easy for their families by deciding to stay safe.
Well there are other things I need to talk through with my brother regarding my mum. But anyway, I'm here in Manchester and they are all at home in Belfast. That's just how it has worked out. I'll get in touch soon.
Oops, I thought you were Calderdale like me.
About a mile from the border so close enough, our Tory tosspot is much modern, doesn't have strong opinions about anything unless it looks like a good career move. He was a northern power house minister for a while, not sure he actually knows where Rossendale is.
My sister in law got the first stage of the vaccine yesterday. She's a nurse in the NW of England on a surgical ward and her husband is at elevated risk.
First sign of spring. Can't wait for my turn.
Glad to hear that Donald, good news.
Good luck with the family stuff @stColin. Get out and ride when the trials are quiet, make the most of the time, and try not to worry about them if possible. What’s your lady friend doing for Christmas?
Good news @Donald… we’ll be in the queue with you. Just done the flu one with my son (he gets it for medical grounds… I don’t) which felt like they were practising for the big one at the GP surgery… lots of people helping guide people through… coloured lines on the floor to follow… one way system… all hands on deck with all rooms staffed by doctors and nurses getting everyone done and through super quick and efficiently.
Bit of a long story. She is going to spend it with her parents in their own bubble. Her dad is very high risk, COPD and other respiratory issues. I’m happy enough with that. I’m not going as they don’t want my company. So I decided to stay here. However, she has decided that she is going for over a week. Fair enough, her choice, her family, but I’m disappointed.
Will certainly try and make the most of the quiet trials if I can. Planning either a 50km MTB ride or a 100km road bike ride.