No jet I’ve ever seen has a “dashboard” they’ve got instruments
All a bit Tesla iPad now...and yes all gone a bit Boeing.
This isn’t the fault of people failing to follow simple guidance, it’s people not having simple guidance to follow.
Its both, people will always break the rules otherwise we would need the Law, Police and and a criminal justice system. Its very clear for example, to wear a mask indoors and on public transport yet people choose to have it around their neck. That isn't Boris' fault.
I’m glad to see we are focussing on the core issue of BoJos speech - whether jets have a dashboard???
Planes have instrument panels, which are just ways of presenting information - sounds like a dashboard to me!!
If you plan and model restrictions on the basis that there will be 100% compliance, then that's almost worse. It's all very well to say that we'd be alright if only everyone had followed the guidance, but that's like saying that the government would have enough money if only everyone paid all their tax, or there would be no such thing as gambling/alcohol addiction if people would just follow the guidance and gamble/drink sensibly.
Make a rule, expect a % of people to break, so add more restrictions to compensate for the gap that creates.
Alternatively, make and half-heartedly promote a catalogue of conflicting and confusing rules on the hoof, watch as senior government figure break them, then act surprised and disappointed when compliance is even worse.
That isn’t Boris’ fault.
I agree with the principle, but the failure to do any real enforcement in the original restrictions - admittedly often due to lack of resources - sent the wrong message down from "the government". And then there was the Cummings **** up (Note to mods, I am not trying to get round the swear filter)
But it wasn’t clear and was deliberately vague from the outset. I’m not allowed to make anybody wear a mask on my plane - see the video of the EJ captain who tried.
My personal view - if your illness is so bad you can’t wear a mask, do you really need to be on my plane/bus/train in the midst of a global outbreak of a killer invisible virus?
It’s being used as an excuse by the ignorant & arrogant.
I don't think that's had anywhere near the impact as people on here like to pretend it has. Huge swathes of the population haven't heard of these people, what they've done or even watch the news. Certainly everyone videod partying outside pubs etc after kicking out time... they're just doing it because they're ****s. You can say they're fed up, confused, etc etc but at the end of the day the vast majority of the world is in the same boat & they're just being selfish ****s. Draconian enforcement is the only solution IMO but there isn't the will and there certainly aren't the resources. It is bloody obvious that the only way to stop the virus spreading is to limit social contact, this has been the message from day 1, and is what a lot of people have been doing (and continue to do) but not enough clearly.watch as senior government figure break them, then act surprised and disappointed when compliance is even worse.
I don’t think that’s had anywhere near the impact as people on here like to pretend it has. Huge swathes of the population haven’t heard of these people, what they’ve done or even watch the news.
Do you live in the UK? Because I don't know a single person that hasn't used the "one rule for us, one rule for them" line in conversation, and cited either Cummings, or Barnard Castle, or eye tests as part of their reasoning... jokingly or not. It might have stayed as just a news item if he'd quietly apologised... but that Downing Street rose garden non-apology escaped the normal news cycle, and became a point of reference for everyone, not just those who follow politics. I have one can of the Brewdog beer left in the fridge.
So to summarise the only things which were/are in Johnson's purview*.
*The extent of restrictions
*The timing of restrictions, both start and finish.
* The quality of the messaging on restrictions
*The enforcement of restrictions, including taking appropriate actions when prominent figures take the piss to set a good example.
*Incentives to improve compliance with restrictions
*The delivery of other measures designed to improve outbreak handling - NHS Staffing, funding for NHS and local authorities, PPE and other equipment, a functioning track and trace which he said was vital to dealing with a second wave
I'm sure there are a few more, but, obviously, in the end, it's usually somebody else's fault.
*pop a jaunty little bonnet on it etc..
Personally I think the ambiguities in the latest guidance do not help, it would be better to replace 'advised not to' with 'should not' or 'are not allowed'. There is still too much discretion being delegated to a population that clearly can't follow rules, yes I totally accept there are reasons for this which the government are responsible for, but it is that lack of definitive wording that isn't helpful.
that is my point. STW is a hugely middle-class bubble. Many people here are massively detached from the real world. Possibly your social group is also? There are swathes of people who have no interest or knowledge of current affairs, never watch the news or talk politics etc. Probably you just don't know any of them.Do you live in the UK? Because I don’t know a single person that hasn’t used the “one rule for us, one rule for them” line in conversation
I think the issue is that, even if we follow all the rules, the number of infections will increase.
All we can do is buy the government time to get all the track, trace and testing stuff working. And they pissed off with that £20 note we lent them and spent it at the bookies.
It also seems that the government still won't do what it needs to do to actually control this virus even if we do go into another full lockdown, and with the lack of financial support available even if that did happen... You can kind of see why folk look at these new restrictions and think "why bother?"
Other than quit your job, pull the kids out of school and never leave your house til summer 2021 there is nothing an individual can do to have an appreciable effect on this. We just don't have the agency within the system that exists.
There are swathes of people who have no interest or knowledge of current affairs, never watch the news or talk politics etc.
Of course there are. Not disagreeing with that. But the narrative of Cummings doing what he wants, and explaining away his actions in the downing street garden, reached people that ignore the news... it was a "famous for its 123-metre spire" style moment that broke out of the news, and into the small talk of the nation.
I will admit to being no fan of our present national leadership, or lack thereof, in fact I'd go as far as to say that I agree with so many of the comments vocally criticisng the govts approach etc.
On the flip side, and I have no knowledge of who actually organises the testing set up in Newcastle, but I must confess to being impressed with it...
I had symptoms; I have the NHS Covid app; I found my nearest drive-thru testing facility which yesterday morning had 490 slots available; I booked a same day slot; I went; I tested; deposited; was told result would be in 72 hours; received result this morning.
Now I have no idea why it seemed so straight forward for me when I see the reports from other areas about how poor the availability/ability for tests has been, or if this is a reflection of the fact we are in 'extra measures'/tier 2/high* <delete as applicable> but whoever organises this up here is doing OK.
I had symptoms; I have the NHS Covid app; I found my nearest drive-thru testing facility which yesterday morning had 490 slots available; I booked a same day slot; I went; I tested; deposited; was told result would be in 72 hours; received result this morning.
I had a very efficient test as well at a drive thru centre about 7 miles from mine, quick result (negative thankfully) etc BUT
while it was well organised, it was also very quiet, only about 3 cars in the area. This was 2pm and the person said that they were all going home once I'd been through as I was the last of the day! I accept that there is a maximum capacity at various points in the system, not least the lab testing on the samples, but to have a testing spot with loads of extra space and then not have the ability to use it to anything like its full potential seemed very poor.
Which facility did you use fazzini ?
https://www.newcastle.gov.uk/citylife-news/community/new-covid-testing-facility-opens-newcastle
I was just coming on to write more or less exactly waht martinhutch just wrote.
I agree with @kelvin on the dominic cummings thing. Not only that, apologies for the massive stereotyping, but those that have no interest in current affairs have little interest in abiding by the rules, so giving them evn the slimmest validation for rule breaking is even more inexcusable. While many people won't know the ins and outs, the vast majority of the country knew that Cummings breached lockdown and the government didnt care.
that is my point. STW is a hugely middle-class bubble. Many people here are massively detached from the real world. Possibly your social group is also? There are swathes of people who have no interest or knowledge of current affairs, never watch the news or talk politics etc. Probably you just don’t know any of them.
Maybe it’s those with little interest outside their bubble that are detached from the real world.
Which facility did you use fazzini ?
It was the Great Park park and ride facility @kelvin. It ceratinly wasn't 'busy' but there were plenty of folks visiting.
Quite possibly. In which case, the most amazing leadership in the world won't help if enough people just aren't interested in what's best for everyone.Maybe it’s those with little interest outside their bubble that are detached from the real world.
Not sure why "cover" get stopped by the swear filter. 😉
Some of the people reluctant to wear masks might be those who like Trump know or are convinced they've already had the virus, and consider themselves rightly or wrongly no threat to anyone. That's a growing population.
In the early days of the virus there was the idea of certificates for those who'd had it but that was qucikly stamped on more for political reasons that than the real risk of getting the of virus twice. The media jump on any example they can of people getting the virus twice and that amounts to no more than double figures worldwide unless someone can point me to something that says otherwise.
As more people survive the virus the pool of people who fear it is smaller, and no doubt the pool of people happy to comply with restrictions is smaller too. This is going to make imposing restrictions harder the longer it goes on, along with the number of people suffering economic pain. The risk takers (voluntary and involuntary) and rebels are the ones who are most likely to have already had it looking at the profile of French clusters. I'd rather see people getting pissed in bars than in pitched battles on the streets of Paris, I hope my government would too.
Question if I may? I'm a reasonably fit bloke in my mid forties. Prudent to get the flu jab? I've never worried about it before...
@Del - generally with the flu jab the older you are the more potential benefit you'll get from it. I'm 61 and haven't bothered so far - pretty fit, had one cold in the last seven years but ... past data is no guarantee of future performance and all that.
Get the jab. Doesn't just protect you, it protects any vulnerable people who can't have the injection by reducing the risk of transmission.
I'm 51, and qualify for the NHS jab this year. We're last in the queue, possibly December apparently. I may get my own elsewhere if I can
Just watched Matt Hancock live at the commons, for the first time ever he's mildly impressed me - he comes off as having actually read and understood the science unlike Boris and Rishi. Word on the grapevine is that he has gone again Boris as well, which is why he has been side lined.
Do you lot think he's taken the barrage of abuse and criticism he's received to heart?
Yeah, flu jab is all about protecting other people. Was meant to get mine last week, but my wife had a temperature so rebooked for Friday.
I'm getting my first flu jab later this week at 46. Feeling rather silly for being aware of the benefits of Vitamin D supplements for over six months, but all I've taken is daily multivitamins, which have a very low VitD amount.
Not long been home from work, having wasted a long weekend feeling rough with some lurgy, which better half had too. I've had an ache in my floating ribs since mid September, that moved to my sternum at the weekend, which I put down to going mad up Cheddar Gorge.
Now we both almost certainly had Covid back in March (before tests were available outside ICU beds), she had ~5.5 weeks off over six weeks with pneumonia-like breathing issues, I had something much milder that turned into some form of "long Covid."
Better half didn't go into work (NHS) today due to her lurgy and they've told her to get a Covid test through post before she can return to work. She's nothing like as wheezy as back in March.
But potential second infection?
Should I stay off work until she hopefully gets a negative result, or cycle to our local test centre to get my own test?
Just watched Matt Hancock live at the commons, for the first time ever he’s mildly impressed me
Strangely I have a lot of sympathy for Hancock. He was a complete c during the election campaign but since then he seems like the only one in the cabinet who prioritises people's health and wellbeing over their economic value, and whilst he's a bit useless, you have to see that through the lens of him having to fight a rearguard action against the rest of the arse** in the cabinet and the party.
I agree about Hancock, when Johnson and Cummings were off sick he really seemed to be trying to do the right thing.
I guess I still had a shred of belief in the UK population’s capacity for independent thought
Scroll up a bit. There’s folk on this forum/thread who still aren’t clear about the idea of travelling hundreds of miles around the country on a pleasure trip despite the increasing infection, hospitalisation and death rates.
That's the thing about independent thought scotroutes.... everyone's got their own.
Perfectly possible to make a rational argument that travelling 100's of miles is significantly lower risk that nipping down your local B&Q.
Clear unambiguous rules are the only way. Scotland has been pretty good on that front so far. I don't see why people should be expected to go above-and-beyond the requirements, surely we are paying people to make these public health decisions for us ?
I think he's an absolute clown but I also think Hancock is being set up as the fall guy for this by the more dangerous idiots above him. Not sure I'd call my feelings sympathy but it's not the blind hatred I feel for some of the others.
Scroll up a bit. There’s folk on this forum/thread who still aren’t clear about the idea of travelling hundreds of miles around the country on a pleasure trip despite the increasing infection, hospitalisation and death rates.
Some people seem to think that others should follow arbitrary rules they've dreamed up. I've just had a lovely couple of nights in Cartmel and I'm intending to keep living my life as much as I can whilst taking reasonable precautions. Unless it's made illegal I'm also going to a self catering cottage in the Lakes at the end of the month and I'll try and spend money with local businesses.
143 deaths today it was 70ish last tuesday, 655 hospital admissions
Unless it’s made illegal I’m also going to a self catering cottage in the Lakes at the end of the month and I’ll try and spend money with local businesses.
I hope the locals are more welcoming than they were during the earlier months of the lockdown
Where's Gove gone? He's more elusive than Mark Francois these days
We’ve had two tour buses of old folk from North Yorkshire up on a jolly t’day (kirkcudbright), very few of them wearing masks and mingling around the street in large groups, not leaving 2m space in shops - Jesus Christ what is ****ing wrong with these folk?.
I hope the locals are more welcoming than they were during the earlier months of the lockdown
The local pubs still open in Cartmel seemed happy for the business and I've had no bother in any I've visited in the Dales. Actual locals, rather than just retirees, seem to realise the areas need tourism to provide jobs and keep things open.
Some people seem to think that others should follow arbitrary rules they’ve dreamed up.
British Common Sense… everyone is right… everyone is wrong… all our fault when it goes tits up… chuckles from the Cabinet Office.
Peston wrote,
"And perhaps most damning of all from government advisers SAGE is that despite the billions spent on NHS Test and Trace, its shortcomings mean it is having only “a marginal impact on [Covid19] transmission”"
What I thought was really interesting was that when we were in the middle of Travel Ban Tennis and Scotland decided to put restrictions on travel to Greece, we got a really patronising and borderline insulting comment from the Tories that we'd "jumped the gun" and that we should have waited for the national reporting. The Scottish action was based 100% on contact tracing- we had multiple outbreaks that were traced back to travel from Greece, and so they acted on that. Westminster just didn't seem to understand that this was even possible- but really it's one of the two things that contact tracing is for. The "NHS track and trace" system wasn't producing information of a high enough quality to act on it for travel.
Course, the Scottish system is probably pretty well overwhelmed right now, it worked great with small numbers, but it was so indicative of the level of expectations "We've spent billions of quid on tracking and tracing but when we see a system working, and the actual benefits that it should bring, we just don't understand"- or "we never expected this to deliver" in other words.
it worked great with small numbers
That’s pretty much the nature of the system, no matter how well you implement it. Social distancing is a blunt tool to reduce numbers… once low enough TTI can contain outbreaks and identify entry.
Question if I may? I’m a reasonably fit bloke in my mid forties. Prudent to get the flu jab? I’ve never worried about it before…
Good luck with it!
I've got a voucher from work to cover the full cost of it - last year a nurse came into our workplace and did the whole lot but obviously this year we have to book our own. All the pharmacies I've tried so far have no vaccine at all for under 65's.
Global shortage apparently...
Still no kids ones here either.
Good luck with it!
I'm asthmatic and therefore on the essential list, but still had to go through a battery of questions from the Dr's receptionist. KJ02 is having here's next week.