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Are people really thinking that by June we will not be social distancing and wearing masks in shops?
Even if we get up to very high vaccination levels, the vaccine is not 100% effective and also doesn’t 100% stop transmission.
I can see us wearing make for a fair bit longer. Also hopefully it will stop some of the annoying colds that come around at work too
I think I'll be masking and avoiding large crowds for a while, I must admit, mainly for selfish reasons.
Same here. Mostly because this area continued to be a hotspot between lockdowns, and still is. If I lived elsewhere I might have a different attitude about this summer. Also, having a type 1 diabetic son means continued caution while we wait for Pfizer to be approved for teens. Will be beer-gardening though the summer... I'll be outside with the smokers and sun worshippers... and won't be moaning about it. God I've missed pubs.
Another person I know killed themselves this weekend. That's 5 since lockdowns started.
Normally it's about 1 a year or less
Any suicide is one too many but the rate has not increased throughout the pandemic according to research by the BMJ
Where I stay there’s sadly been two in the last month, one was a 70+ woman with mild dementia and bi polar syndrome who walked into the river a few weeks ago, her body was recently found round the coastline and the 2nd was someone I know (fisherman 36) who overdosed,he hadn’t been able to earn or export his catch since last year and couldn’t pay his mortgage or loan on his boat
We really haven’t…(data from October 12, 2020)
Admissions 0-54 56,446
Admissions 55+ 192,502Over 80% most likely (since those with additional risk factors <50 have been offered vaccine, but not 99% by any means. A lot of healthy young people have been going to hospital. And coming home. I’m (just) in the first group 🙂
I suspect he meant those that are in the top 9 cohorts that make up 99% of deaths, not hospitalisations.
I'm going to be wearing a mask for some time i think.
Sorry to hear about another suicide, the mental health costs of the pandemic will be huge. I'm just grateful that my issues last year were not depressive so nothing happened
Any suicide is one too many but the rate has not increased throughout the pandemic according to research by the BMJ
I did a mental health for managers course at work last year, and this sort of stat was also quoted. However, the trainer was cautious that the real effects will not be seen until some time after; at the moment we are looking out for those friends and colleagues we worry about, we have campaigns and support, financial support for those that need it (yes, not enough and not everyone that needs it gets helped) and so on. It's when the majority go back to normal leaving a some behind that she worries that the impact will be felt.
Sorry about your friend YGH
Very sad to hear your news YGH
Slight departure from the discussion (wasn't sure if it warranted a new thread or not)...
Has anyone's employer provided the rapid test kits for their staff? Just wondering how well it's gone, what the take-up has been etc
I've got a small business and have ordered some, I think it's a great idea provided it's widely used across as many companies as possible. I imagine our staff being very willing to do them (initially at least). hopefully other companies will follow suit...
One of my work buddies Dad died from COVID-19 at the weekend, he was 88 with COPD - he'd refused the vaccine as he lived alone and didn't feel he was at risk, he'd told his doctor that his jab should be given to someone who needed it more.
My buddy was with his Dad when he died - and has now tested positive, despite being jabbed a month ago.
His household now need to isolate for 10 days whilst trying to sort out the death of a loved one.
A timely reminder that this is still not over - despite Primark and the pubs now reopening.
According to Boris Johnson, all over 50's in the UK have now been offered a vaccine. Not in my experience they haven't!
NHS website now accepting vaccination bookings for 45-50 y/o. Just booked my wife in for Thursday 15 Apr & 2 July
How did you book? Still saying 50 here:
Boomer Lives Matter!
It remains slightly disappointing that we seem to have to dispel the whole 'Great Barrington Delusion' every twenty pages or so, but can someone at least sort out the Broken Page Link Declaration of a few pages ago?
#iamnotaboomer
#someofmybestfriendsareboomers
#killallboomers
It let me book anyway (47).
Another over 50 who can’t book (posted earlier)
However I have just booked, or rather have been given the option to book.
I downloaded the NHS app and linked my NHS number and surgery which took 5 min and involved taking a pic of my passport and some weird FP flashing face scan.
This seems to have solved the issues of being unable to book despite trying every day and calling 3 times.
So if you are eligible/over 50 try the app (not the track and trace one)
But I didn’t book as I found out they are doing walk-ins at various vaccine hubs in my health area (SE London) so I’m off to Guys/St Thomas’s in the morning as that’s a day earlier than a booked appointment with the app. (Or a Lidl was another option?!)
So try your local health area website as they may do walk-ins for over 50’s with no appointment.
I think people are referring to the NHS England booking system. I'm in Scotland (Highlands). The system he is that vaccinations are given by the local GP Practice. They contract their patients in order, as they are allocated supplies. They are vaccinating some over 50's today, but do not have doses for all. As I'm 52, going on 53, they must be well short of having enough doses for the over 50's. I'm sure I'm far from alone.
So is Boris mis-informed, lying, or confused about the difference between England and the UK?
Vaccination data for Scotland
Locally I know they're now doing some 40+ year olds when they have enough doses.
I just booked my vaccination online, in the 45-49 age group in Bristol.
Managed to book late last night for the 45-49 group. Went for the madjeski stadium in Reading and just read they’ll be one of the places giving the Moderna jab so fingers crossed. Jab in a couple of hours.
47, had my first OxAZ jab yesterday after work and now feeling pretty rough with side effects that feel like flu.
Got text from my GP practice two weeks ago for it, did wonder at time if I'd got jab sooner than expected because of my better half's bad immunological response that started with Covid almost 13 months ago and turned into nasty Long Covid. She's had ~7 months signed off sick now from her NHS role, not been in since Xmas.
Booking Website appears to have crashed/overloaded for those 45+ trying!
@mudmuncher - truly the stuff of dreams!
Wife (49) booked last night, pre-announcements but didn't get disqualified at the age section so assumed it was OK and got an appt at a local pharmacy for 0925 today.
As the website crashing - good, not that it's crashed but good that presumably lots of people want to book!
Great news for everyone in the 45 plus age groups.
Disappointing to see so many (mostly young) out drinking without any social distancing.
Our own local pub has put in lots of safety measures. One has to book. The tables are all well spaced out and the customers can only sit in their own household groups/bubbles.
Too many people as usual thinking this virus has miraculously gone away.
Sorry to hear about your other half n0b0dy0ftheg0at. Hope things get better for her soon.
Doesn't it depend on the local health authority?
Glos is doing well, as i'm 41 and had mine last week, but had the text nearly 3 weeks ago. They are well into the 30's group now as my other half has just had her text this week.
Booking for the 45+ in Scotland appears to still be by NHS invitation only and no option to apply via the NHS portal.
Round here anyone over 30 can walk into the vac centre and get a jab. 2nd jab too if you're at least 28d after the first one (AZ - don't think they want to mix). I'll probably get my 2nd this weekend, being 4 weeks after the first.
Round here
Where's that? Is it an official NHS centre, or just tied to a particular GP practice or group of practices?
Seems to be run from a local pharmacy, using a local church (that supplies a lot of the volunteers). It's on the NHS website list if you book through that, but didn't have enough bookings last week so we were basically grabbing people off the street. Now that all the vulnerable groups have been offered, it seems sensible enough to me.
Just booked mine via the NHS website. No issues with booking, had to choose 2 different locations for the jabs to get both in the required time frame, but that's no problem (west yorkshire).
Went for a post ride pint last night, it was busy but we had plenty of space. Lots of big groups though & a lot of pissed up young people obviously happy to be back out. We'll see what happens to the numbers over the next few weeks!
Our local GP led clìnic was complaining about a high number of no-shows last week. Made me think it might be worth some folk just turning up and chancing it.
Can't come soon enough, I'm in to 40-45 age group so I must be close now - NHS web portal says 45+ and says I'm not yet elliggle if i put my NHS number in.
As an aside I saw this Spanish news article about a potentially different side effct of the AZ vaccine... like with the blod clot side effect, the numbers are tiny (in this case just one known of) in comaprison with doses administered, but still makes you think, Spain only giving AZ to seniors.
Are people really thinking that by June we will not be social distancing and wearing masks in shops?
Even if we get up to very high vaccination levels, the vaccine is not 100% effective and also doesn’t 100% stop transmission.
I can see us wearing make for a fair bit longer. Also hopefully it will stop some of the annoying colds that come around at work too
I honestly don't know, that seems to be the goal of the English Gov anyway, but there's lots of ifs and buts of course and the grown ups in charge like Chris Whitty have mentioned that people have gotten used to masks and it might be sensible to continue with their use past June.
My personal opinion is that if the numbers continue to go the way they are, that come June the onus will switch to individuals and businesses and that's going to be tricky. There's such a spread of opinions and 'comfort levels' with Covid. Again, personally come June, because I will have had both jabs and assuming things continue as they are now, I'd be happy to go to a busy pub again without a mask.
I will have to accept the same drunken oafs who can't help but put their arm around you, or worse before aren't going to be able to stop themselves after this, and, and I don't know why they seem the exact type of person who will think it's a "load of old bollocks" and won't get vaccinated either. It would be nice if Landlords could police it somehow, but I don't think they will effectively, covidiots seem impervious to good sense.
I know some of my friends wouldn't be happy to do that, it'll take them a long time to adjust, and I can understand it, I can't want pre-covid TV without that sense of anxiety when you see people standing around in crowds. Some of my friends are quite mad, don't want the vaccine but I know will be first through the door on opening day. You'd hope by then, it'll be only themselves they endanger, mostly anyway.
You’d hope by then, it’ll be only themselves they endanger, mostly anyway.
Not quite that simple, the SA varient seems to be the next issue....
among patients who had received two doses of the vaccine, the variant's prevalence rate was eight times higher than among the unvaccinated - 5.4% versus 0.7%.
Not quite that simple, the SA varient seems to be the next issue….
> https://news.sky.com/story/covid-19-biggest-surge-testing-operation-to-date-under-way-as-dozens-of-south-african-variant-cases-found-in-south-london-12273904
It's obviously an issue, but my understanding it that the AZ vaccine is still effective against it, and more effective that we hoped the vaccines would be before the roll out (higher than say the flu vaccine) it's not the "it doesn't work" horror story that was being pushed by some news outlets weeks ago.
Not quite that simple, the SA varient seems to be the next issue….
> https://news.sky.com/story/covid-19-biggest-surge-testing-operation-to-date-under-way-as-dozens-of-south-african-variant-cases-found-in-south-london-12273904 <
Or sky news have run out of corona drama to profit from so have found a new scare story to flog...
Or sky news have run out of corona drama to profit from so have found a new scare story to flog…
The BBC report was a little less hysterical.
Have Sky News got a record of “corona drama” and “scare stories”? If so, I’ve missed them.
Interestingly(or not) I've got myself on the (Murcia Region) Spanish Vaccination list.
If you're on private health insurance and not registered with the Murcia regional health authority you probably need to inform them with this.
(I think you can also visit and register in person but multiple copies of everything required this seems to be the less faf option)
It gives you a pdf of your details.
I think it's only been up for a week, I'm not sure what the other Regions are doing.
Plenty of scares on Sky news website - packed pubs, parties, Marquees, crowds in London...
Isn't that reporting? What am I missing?
Not quite that simple, the SA varient seems to be the next issue….
> https://news.sky.com/story/covid-19-biggest-surge-testing-operation-to-date-under-way-as-dozens-of-south-african-variant-cases-found-in-south-london-12273904
I'm trying to make sense of the numbers in the Israeli study. They had 800 participants, all of whom had tested positive for COVID, 400 of which had received at least one dose of a vaccine at least 14 days prior to the positive test. Overall B.1.351 made up 1% of cases, so 8 cases. They then say, "among patients who had received two doses of the vaccine, the variant's prevalence rate was eight times higher than among the unvaccinated - 5.4% versus 0.7%.". This gives 2.8 cases in the unvaccinated group, so there must be 5.2 cases in the vaccinated group. The vaccinated group includes both people who've had one and two doses, but the 5.4% is only for people who've had two doses. The rate in the vaccinated group as a whole is is less than twice that in the unvaccinated group. IANAS, but these numbers seem quite low to be used as the basis for any generalisations.
I think most news outlets are guilty of using sensational headlines to grab clicks etc, typically the articles themselves are factual, even if skewed towards to best/worst case, depending on what they're selling that day.
The dodgy 'low angle' at the beach / park / pub to make it look more densely packed than it is the worst. BBC Wales ran a 'queues at Primark' headline, they managed to get 6, socially distanced shoppers into shot, trimmed to make them look like the tip of the iceberg. The few people I know who actually wanted to shop yesterday reported things were well managed and people followed guidelines.
The vaccine gives great protection for all variants found in the testing, but less protection for that variant. Which is why our authorities in the UK are acting as they are with the hotspot of the new variant found in Wandsworth and Lambeth as per the Sky News story. I find it reassuring that it is being taken seriously, and test and trace is targeting/prioritised towards cases of the variant while the numbers are still low.
Isn’t that reporting? What am I missing?
My opinion is that, News is just another part of the entertainment industry. That's not to say that most journalists aren't interested in the truth, but they also need to sell papers / clicks / viewers to say in business.
Fair, unbiased reporting of the facts won't do that, so for example the day the pubs open they won't show quiet pub with 3 couples sat outside safely spaced out, they keep looking until they find the busiest one they can find, then they keep the camera nice and low, it gives the impression people are closer than they are, then they'll report "we were at this Pub in London today etc" as if it's typical and not exceptional. The News Papers are the worst, they only survive by 'proving' the prejudices of their typical reader.
They do the same with data / statistics, often the body of the report is more measured than the headlines, but they need that 'fear' to drag their audience in.
My poor mother, who is 64 and very healthy is petrified of Covid, she's been vaccinated but she gets her 'news' from the Express and seems to spend her days in a sort of mutual hostage situation with my Step-Dad, too scared to open the windows at the front of the house in case someone walks past blowing out covid, their front garden is HUGE and they live in a small rural village
It's click baity headlines that are the issue.
I understand why they exist, but hate the fact that people don't read the details behind them
I think most news outlets are guilty of using sensational headlines to grab clicks etc, typically the articles themselves are factual, even if skewed towards to best/worst case, depending on what they’re selling that day.
Yep, even Singletrack was doing that for a while. Seems to have been reined in a bit over the last year but if clicks generate income you aren't going to see click bait vanishing.
Agree with all that P-Jay, but I wouldn't necessarily label Sky News as a main culprit. Even in that story, alongside explaining why the SA variant is of concern and being targeted, they also include reassuring reminders as regards falling levels of infections. It all reads as both informing and reassuring to me. Even the headline is about a strong response to a small number of cases... which is precisely what should be happening.
i think all news outlets are guilty of it, just taking different scare stories based on their target demographic.
re. vaccines: In wales you can sign up online* to get on a queuing list for the various health boards. I signed up yesterday and got a text today saying I could book for weds/thurs. Ended up going for next week due to timing, but could have got the next couple of days if I'd been free.
*different pages for different health boards, but googling finds them if you want to sign up, I think WalesOnline have a list of them.
have i missed something...
folk have become sceptical of the AZ vaccine due to blood clots so are embracing the Moderna version.
surely the Moderna equivalent of "blood clots" has yet to be spotted?
apols - deliberately over simplified, i do not question the existence of blood clots nor do i wish to overstate their incidence etc. etc.
Yes soobalias you are probably right. We know that the blood clot issue for AZ is small, but it seems slightly non-zero. For other vaccines, we don't know so much. They may turn out to be slightly worse, or slightly better. It's unlikely that any of them is really dangerous to a significant degree.
J&J has now been reported as potential for clots as well.
Seems that Boris is lining up excuses for another lockdown as he introduces caution over a layer of crowded pub gardens, parties and SA variants. It’s all got a whiff of “it wasn’t my fault I broke my promise” over it.
On the plus side I’ve just finished a bike ride with Jnr with Beer and Chips sitting on a wooden table, I’ll admit I thought it was a minor issue being denied these things, but it was surprisingly liberating sitting in the sun with a pint and a bowl of chips.
After a day sat in front of a monitor I find it pleasant to ride into the country with a cold tin in the EVOC, find a place with a view of something and chill in the sun.
48 and booked my jabs on the main NHS website this morning. 2-May and 18-July.
Bromley - South London/North Kent Borders.
Feeling very pleased today.
variant’s prevalence rate
Some perspective - prevalence is not admissions. Hospital admissions are stable in London at the moment at about 30/day. They have been that way for a couple of weeks. Whether this is school return (children on trains, tubes and buses more in London) is moot. It could be another variant like the SA B.351.1 VoC, although confirmed numbers are low (25% of all cases are in London). I believe that the SA variant is not an S-gene knockout since it retains the 69/70 mutation site, but has another deletion at 242/4. hence this might manifest by S-gene measurement prior to typing.
have i missed something…
folk have become sceptical of the AZ vaccine due to blood clots so are embracing the Moderna version.
surely the Moderna equivalent of “blood clots” has yet to be spotted?
apols – deliberately over simplified, i do not question the existence of blood clots nor do i wish to overstate their incidence etc. etc.
Again, this is partly the fault of the press. Certainly in the early days they were fare more interested in whipping up a fight between the UK and EU and selling papers than reporting facts. My Wife has only had a single patient turn up for a vaccine and then refuse to have it because they could only offer a AZ, he was a massively obese smoker, but completely freaked out when he wasn't able to pick which vaccine he was having.
Yes, I agree there will be side effects reported that seem, because of the numbers involved scary. In the UK (as of 09/04/21) 79 people have developed blood clots and 19 died, likely as a result of being given the AZ vaccine. 19 deaths is a tragedy. But Covid is one of those horrible things that offers only tough choices. The vaccine roll out killed 19 people, but PHE estimate it's saved over 10k lives already in English over-60s alone.
I don't know what the solution is, the Press will tell you the people have the right to know about blood clots, but do they have the right to sensationalise it? For the two weeks after the headlines on blood clots my wife's centre had their rate of DNA (people who book, but don't turn up) jump from almost none, to 20% hopefully they rebooked, and the numbers remain great, but it's a worry.
Free agent- that’s quite a delay to first jab - they are available today down here in East Sussex. Did you choose the dates for convenience?
The standard argument why the unvaccinated haven’t already been wiped off the face of the Earth by measles etc, is that they piggyback off everyone else’s sacrifice and so benefit from herd immunity.
With the Covid vaccines not conferring this herd immunity, we can presumably expect to see the unvaccinated die out pretty quickly, thus posing an ever decreasing risk to the rest of humanity.
So are a few no-shows really a problem?
we can presumably expect to see the unvaccinated die out pretty quicklyf
The choice is currently between artificially imparted protection from possible serious morbidity, or naturally imparted protection from serious morbidity. The benefit risk on this falls heavily on the artificial at the moment. I've had both and I can tell you, I recommend the artificial!
The alternative is that a pool of unvaccinated means a larger risk of mutation (every time the virus replicates is a chance of mutation) so increases the chance of a vaccine resistant strain which affects us all, vaccinated or not.
With the Covid vaccines not conferring this herd immunity, we can presumably expect to see the unvaccinated die out pretty quickly, thus posing an ever decreasing risk to the rest of humanity.
Very few of them will die though. But in enough numbers, they will clog up the hospitals limited resources, and could see more or longer restrictions for the rest of the populace.
Seems that Boris is lining up excuses for another lockdown as he introduces caution over a layer of crowded pub gardens, parties and SA variants. It’s all got a whiff of “it wasn’t my fault I broke my promise” over it.
Maybe someone has got through to him that double jeopardy trashing the vaccine gain and cooking up a wave four variant in the population would not be a good thing.
Wife, 41, had a text this morning to book a jab, which she thought was a mistake as she knows a couple of people that have had texts only to be told it was a mistake.
It wasn't and whilst she was on the phone I chirped up 'can I come, can I come' and the lady on the other end heard (which I wasn't expecting) and booked me in as well. Again, wasn't expecting as I'm only 39. Happy days, roll on Monday 🙂
Very few of them will die though. But in enough numbers, they will clog up the hospitals limited resources, and could see more or longer restrictions for the rest of the populace.
And some people still don't see it....
Nice one Fathomer. Don’t ask, don’t get.
Or maybe they see it, just refuse to admit it.
Free agent- that’s quite a delay to first jab – they are available today down here in East Sussex. Did you choose the dates for convenience?
No - it was what I was offered on the main NHS website.
Not sure if I can change it now?
67 days between my two doses. I booked the earliest possible first appointment, and wasn’t give a choice of second appointments, just a choice of times on that single day.
chrispo
Free MemberThe standard argument why the unvaccinated haven’t already been wiped off the face of the Earth by measles etc, is that they piggyback off everyone else’s sacrifice and so benefit from herd immunity.
Even without it, to have that effect you need a deadlier disease. I think the reality is that if there's a vaccine for a disease that kills people in those numbers, the question doesn't arise, because in that scenario almost everyone accepts the vaccine. But measles like covid and others is in the less lethal band where a large enough number of people would survive regardless of vaccines. It's not quite self-fulfilling I suspect but it's definitely strongly linked.
So basically non-vaccination can create an unnecessarily high level of death, a greater risk to the entire population, and a higher burden on the NHS. But what it won't do, is solve itself.
We could of gone tomorrow but the other half has to be out for work all day, next Monday was the next earliest day. Exactly 11 weeks, or 77 days between ours.
Can anyone advise why I cannot book a jab? The NHS website allows me to pick a date for first jab but then says it cannot find me any dates for the second jab and that the first and second dose have to be booked together 🤷
Cardiff and Vale NHS are now offering vaccines to the over 30s. Remarkable.
Trailwagger, I got that,ended up getting my second appointment in Manchester whilst the first is in Blackburn, had to try several times to find somewhere with 2nd jab availability. It also told me when I first logged in I'd missed my first jab so would have to book again, I'm 49 so only eligible from today. Crap IT from our government, who'd have thought it. Still happy to have the jabs booked, didn't get a lot of choice (none) on dates, first one is May 3rd, 2nd is July 24th, about 12 weeks apart.
Cardiff and Vale NHS are now offering vaccines to the over 30s. Remarkable
Labour government, butt
Has anyone else had covid after having had a vaccine?
Had first vaccine 7 weeks ago and have always been really careful if I go to the supermarket, not been out anywhere else!
Feeling shocking today. Got a test booked for tomorrow morning but wouldn’t surprise me if it turns out to be that....
Wow looks like slots have gone quickly!!
I booked for my wife last night 1st jab Thursday, second Jul 2. We are due to go sailing in Greece on Jul 18.
We are due to go sailing in Greece on Jul 18.
You are Stanley Johnson AICMFP 🙂
'Interesting' word choice on BBC news on the combining vaccines trial currently underway. Apparently the trial is to ensure that this process is 'safe', whereas I would expect the trial would be to determine if it is an effective use of resources.
Some of the reporters choices of language have been truly dire.
We are due to go sailing in Greece on Jul 18.
I wouldn't expect to be going anywhere abroad this summer, unless you like Heathrow's Premier Inn or Travelodge for a £1700, 10 day stay on your return!