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You really think thats what they would do?
Speaking in the Indian parliament on Wednesday, foreign minister Subrahmanyam Jaishankar said supply was “based on assessment of adequate availability at home”.
https://www.ft.com/content/d5a26194-9537-4b57-b35a-99236b67823b
I suppose it’s no bad thing if he gets his vac sooner as he is more likely to be a spreader
How will the vaccine stop him spreading it? If he touches a surface with covid on, he doesn't kill the virus. The virus just can't live on him any longer than an inanimate surface. For example if he shakes hands with 3 people and the first has covid, he could spread it to the other 2.
This isn’t AZ vaccine we ordered last year. We basically asked if they had any extra we could have. The are giving us 10 million, we’ve had 5 already but the others are delayed.
Is it that the entire UK order from last year is due to be produced in the UK or am I imagining that?
How will the vaccine stop him spreading it? If he touches a surface with covid on, he doesn’t kill the virus. The virus just can’t live on him any longer than an inanimate surface. For example if he shakes hands with 3 people and the first has covid, he could spread it to the other 2.
You're still singing while you wash your hands, aren't you? 😉
It'll reduce spread because it's a disease primarily spread through the air, not via surfaces.
Moderna is US/EU as is Pfizer.
AZ, Novomax & Valvena will all be uk (Telford, Teeside & Scotland)
I’m not sure if the entire 100m AZ doses are due to be uk manufactured.
How will the vaccine stop him spreading it? If he touches a surface with covid on, he doesn’t kill the virus. The virus just can’t live on him any longer than an inanimate surface. For example if he shakes hands with 3 people and the first has covid, he could spread it to the other 2.
It might not stop him spreading it 100% and i didn't suggest such but it's thought that it will massively reduce the chances of spread mainly because he's much less likely to catch it and the vast majority of spread is airborne not from surfaces.
Whilst that's probably true, we arent allowed to go down that route yet for fear that the law and order and social control the government has established so successfully will unravel too fast.
If he touches a surface with covid on, he doesn’t kill the virus. The virus just can’t live on him any longer than an inanimate surface. For example if he shakes hands with 3 people and the first has covid, he could spread it to the other 2.
I thought we gave up on that train of thought?
I was guilty myself, I remember wearing gloves but no mask in the supermarket (before mandatory masks).
The whole nationalisation them vs us attitude to vaccines isn’t helpful.
It may not be helpful but as piemonster's post proves my speculation has proved correct. The Indians have an infection spike and pulled the plug on vaccine exports. Are you saying we wouldn't do the same? We have to live in the world as it is not as we would like it to be especially when its life and death.
Moderna is US/EU
Moderna is US but with some production in CH, which I imagine is where the UK doses will come from.
Whilst that’s probably true, we arent allowed to go down that route yet for fear that the law and order and social control the government has established so successfully will unravel too fast.
I'm guessing that was humour?
It may not be helpful but as piemonster’s post proves my speculation has proved correct. The Indians have an infection spike and pulled the plug on vaccine exports.
I guess this is all in how you interpret the reason. I can't read the FT article as its behind a paywall but did read this comment from Handcock
"In the last week, we've had a batch of 1.7 million doses delayed because of the need to retest its stability"
That doesn't sound like "holding back" to me it sounds like due diligence. And would we hold back vaccines instead of helping others 100% this is the country that ALWAYS acts with its own interests first - but what can you expect from a nation that's basically founded on superiority.
It sounds to me like an excuse that’s very hard to check.
I guess that's my point right it all depends on how you interpret it.
I’m guessing that was humour?
Did you find it funny?
guess this is all in how you interpret the reason. I can’t read the FT article as its behind a paywall but did read this comment from Handcock
Well here's a Guardian article that isn;'t behind a paywall.
To quote from it
"With caseloads rising, and demand for vaccinations growing at home, the Indian government has asked the Serum Institute to keep more supply at home, and send less to the UK for now, a source authorised to speak for the manufacturer told the Guardian.
They emphasised the decision did not single out Britain – with whom the Indian government has recently tangled over perceived interference in its politics – but reflected the fact that Delhi has the whip hand over its vaccine exports and must ensure its own needs are met."
You know what dude lets just call it a day and not derail this thread further. Your point is it was done on purpose you have a few quotes I posted one from hancock which sounds like additional checks are being one. I really can't be bothered to pick things apart any more.
You win the indian gov' are holding back supplied on purpose and Hancock isn't telling the truth. Have a good evening, I can't be bothered to endlessly debate stuff on this forum any more.
You can register for free and that gives you a limited number of articles over a certain period of time. I don’t subscribe and just about get by with the free views for shared articles.
Just in case anyone has missed this galaxy of planet-sized brains:
Did you find it funny?
I'm not seeing much law and order or social control
So anyway, its a good news day, right:
a) Record number of vaccinations
b) Deaths down
c) Cases down
and
d) the weekend is good for riding
e) Its Super Saturday if you like Rugby
a) Record number of vaccinations
b) Deaths down
c) Cases down
long may they continue. This last week I've woken up happy not wishing I could just hibernate for the rest of winter.
Only a week and a bit until we can see local friends 🙂
Some patients are getting a text from a surgery and booking online, thus somehow having 2 bookings. If possible they need to cancel one, giving other people a chance. There seems to be a communication breakdown.
Some surgeries are having a list for patients that can replace 'no shows' at the end of a day so they can take up the left over vaccines. This would be good if all surgeries could do this to prevent waste.
Also some younger patients aren't taking up their invitation, as they feel, they're taking away a vaccine from someone who's older or more vulnerable. I've tried to convince them (they are people I know in their early 50's) that it is their turn and it's better for us as a whole to take up this offer.
Quick question guys, am I correct in thinking that the AZ and Pfizer are NOT subject to any mix and matching?
Ie if you've had Pfizer first, you'll definitely have phizer for second. Ditto AZ. Mum has her second jab next week.
Thanks as always.
Quick question guys, am I correct in thinking that the AZ and Pfizer are NOT subject to any mix and matching?
Iirc they are testing mix and match but it's not been approved yet?
So you'll get a second dose of whatever you had first time round
Mix and matching AZ & Sputnik5 is the smart hunch.
In case anyone misses it, a guy in the other vaccine thread has been advised by his GP that he should be given the Pfizer jab as his second one after suffering an allergic reaction to the AZ.
Just in case it's handy for anyone to know.
Courtesy of boombang:
poopscoop switching to Pfizer is what my GP has said is likely to happen. As I came out in hives they assume allergy and I’ve been told they won’t likely let me have another AZ jab as they can’t predict how bad the reaction could be.
I’ve not seen any stats on minor allergic reactions but GP said I’m the only one she knows of.
Hoping to get the vaccine soon. Turn 50 in a few days, been an outpatient for 3.5 years (Monitoring for thyroid cancer. 6 monthly scans and biopsies)
Being honest, with kids back at school and lock down easing I’m getting a little twitchy as to when I’ll get the call.
When I know of friends and relatives younger than me with no health issues who’ve been vaccinated, can’t help but think it seems like a lottery.
Fingers crossed.
chipsngravy - As I understand it, you can go on line the moment you turn 50 and book a slot.
I'm 6 weeks off 50, also feel it's been a bit random, seems to be many outwardly fit and healthy younger folk getting the vaccine. Didn't bother me too much until the recent hiatus has been annouced. I'm not vulnerable but over weight with high blood pressure (which I'm working on, lost a stone since Christmas), worked from home for a year (was out of work for the previous o mknths so feels longer) and hardly been anywhere, be really pissed if I got it now.
Thank you Bunnyhop
When I tried to book online without my nhs number it said no. When I found it, it said yes. AZ/Ox vaccine yesterday and so far showing no signs whatsoever. Maybe my past antibodies are putting my feeble spike protein to the sword. Or not.
Quick question guys, am I correct in thinking that the AZ and Pfizer are NOT subject to any mix and matching?
There are no clinical trials to look at any mixing of vaccines. Data will emerge, most likely in the U.K. first from PHE, but I’ve not seen any. If interest to me is what happens when people make a solid neutralising response to the ox/AZ virus carrier, which they will eventually. It’s one reason why the Sputnik vaccine uses different viruses. I’m sure there is no shortage of chimp adenoviruses to choose from.
MrsJ and I (both over 60) had SMS inviting us to book first shot, which we did. No info then or since about when we can book a second shot; however over 50's can ow go online and book both their shots.
Seems a bit un-joined-up.
Dr J - bookings through GP - they book you one dose at a time. Do it via national online system, then you book both together.
There are no clinical trials to look at any mixing of vaccines.
Just for clarity (and I'm sure that TiRed knows this), there are clinical trials currently looking at mixing, but they haven't been going very long yet (and I think they're relatively small), so they haven't produced answers yet.
You’ll need to rely on Google Translate but India appears to be seeing a fairly rapid rise in cases with a R number close to 1.5
Which probably ties into this https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/mar/21/brazil-saudi-and-morocco-told-of-delay-in-covid-jabs-from-india
Which suggests internal political pressure in delaying exports
@TiRed. All this talk from cabinet members and advisers today of a further delay to opening up international travel has been fairly depressing for anybody that works in that industry (me).
Has there been a definitive answer to whether the South African variant can evade vaccine efficacy?
If we listen to every epidemiologist we will be in some form of lockdown forever. If we're trying to get to zero casualties then we need to start restrictions on unhealthy eating, non-active travel, further road building and, well, you get the picture. All these health decisions are in the end, political. The population is fed up and compliance is only going one way. We have vaccines which will protect the majority, and people don't really care about the rest (or themselves if it means that they can't travel for evermore).
If we listen to every epidemiologist we will be in some form of lockdown forever.
Exactly it's all just individual opinions.
If they want to lock themselves down then they're welcome to crack on while rest of us get on at some point hopefully.
We won’t be in “lockdown forever”… no one is suggesting that. Back to normal is a while away yet though, some restrictions on international travel, mask wearing encouraged, social distancing facilitated etc will be needed for a while yet.
Social distancing pretty much ceased in any meaningful way last summer, mask wear will go the same way for most as soon as restrictions lift. Boris has already annouced back to normal in June and short of a new mutation that is vaccinen resistant i cant see much changing that. International travel is likely to be the only ongoing restriction for most, which will be a shot in the arm for domestic hospitality.
Social distancing pretty much ceased in any meaningful way last summer
Not round here it didn't.
Sure, no one is 100% perfect but some days I'm convinced I live in some parallel universe
Social distancing is very much still ongoing. You may well be observing that it is more loosely used than you might personally expect, but we are still using it as a tool a great deal at work and “play”.
844,000 jabs.
Wow.
Social distancing pretty much ceased in any meaningful way last summer
Did it?
Has there been a definitive answer to whether the South African variant can evade vaccine efficacy?
Studies have shown that the Ox/AZ vaccine does not protect against symptomatic infection, but does prevent hospitalisations. The J&J vaccine that uses a similar technology has some efficacy. Novovax also seems protective. But they all prevent serious disease compared to placebo. Hence the vaccine in fact any vaccine, can be viewed as personal protection against getting sick of infected.
As to return to international travel. Slowly would be my expectation. I had hoped for 3Q21 for some semblance of normality. This may be longer based on global vaccine take up. I think that this is out of the UK’s hands. But this is a global situation and needs a global solution. Arguing over vaccines is petty and pointless. Hope the protection lasts long enough for others to catch up (I think it will).
Thanks TiRed, fingers crossed.
there are clinical trials currently looking at mixing
https://www.bbc.com/news/health-55273907/blockquote >
I was thinking of this one (a friend of mine is a participant):
https://comcovstudy.org.uk/
What a headline. Absolutely superb effort by the NHS to get that figure done. Incredible stuff and it should be applauded.
However, to then rub it into our nearest neighbours noses, effectively reveling in peoples deaths and misery is beyond sh*t in my opinion.
No wonder they are likely to cut exports to us, what a vindictive little country we have become. Sorry, not sure where to post this and dont want to go off topic. Just wanted to vent.
Do they not get that if the EU vaccine (and world) effort goes badly we lose too.😐
what a vindictive little country we have become.
Please don't confuse the headlines in the Press bought by a minority with the attitudes of the whole country.
I'm not being dragged down to their level, thank you very much.
First proper trial. Run by AZ, financed by US Government (BARDA). Different to other trials as 2/3 got vaccine and 1/3 placebo to reflect ethical concern that it will work. Dosing four weeks apart. Including elderly.
Fewer events than other similar trials (141 va typically 200) due to the randomisation, but 79% effective at reducing symptomatic infections and 100% hospitalisations. No evidence of thrombocytopenia of other clotting events (among about 20000 so hard to find anyway).
That’s a great outcome. Of course the duration of protection is not known, but the pathway to routine and endemic control is coming.
Do they not get that if the EU vaccine (and world) effort goes badly we lose too.😐
And also, you know, this is people being sick and dying that they're crowing about. Even without the fact that that they're our nearest neighbours and best friends, WTAF!? I'm all for press freedom, but if I were King, they'd be fined for the newly invented crime of 'incitement to behave like absolute ****s'.
if I were King,
My first act would be to enshrine Rule 1 in statute.
However, to then rub it into our nearest neighbours noses, effectively reveling in peoples deaths and misery is beyond sh*t in my opinion.
No wonder they are likely to cut exports to us, what a vindictive little country we have become.
Don't worry, they'll move seamlessly into whining about people not being allowed to go to Europe for their holidays.
The Express is the Daily Mail, but aimed at even thicker ****s.
He comes across as a personality vacuum, but the more cautious Welsh approach has often seemed more sensible. I fear his assessment that the Englush timescale is optimistic is correct, not sure Boris would want to delay it
BBC News - Covid: Boris Johnson's roadmap very optimistic - Mark Drakeford
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-politics-56457861
What I must be missing, or misreading the public mood, but I can't help thinking that if Boris properly slapped down the CRG nutters, told them publicly to MTFU and stop risking snatching another defeat from the jaws of victory again he'd probably get more public support than he'd lose.
He needs to be careful… because those that are now the “CRG nutters” successfully derailed the Tory train so that he could become world king. They may be outliers now, but they have successfully helped transformed his party, his fortunes, and our nations with this nagging from the sidelines approach (no alternatives proposed, just moan about rules) once before (ERG nutters) and he can’t rule out needing them to do so for him again (or worse, in his eyes, them doing so for someone else).
Social distancing pretty much ceased in any meaningful way last summer
Personally I feel like within my friends group its done subconsciously now. At first it felt odd standing 2m from someone having a conversation now it's just normal life. One thing we need to remember is when you see a group in the park who are closer than 2m (or in a group of more than 2) transmission is incredibly low - stats I have suggest it could 1/1000 cases come from socialising outside. But obviously from a statistical point of view there are so many variables when coming up with figures for outside transmission.
I should have guessed that internal Tory politicking trumps the national need....
Just got my jab this morning, very slick operation, took 15 minutes.
Of note, the 79% when dosed four weeks apart is numerically, but not statistically significantly better than the up to 12 weeks in the underpowered U.K. study (62%). Now my suspicion from the original Phase 1 AZ trial is that there is better short term boosting and less waning of antibody immunity over the duration of the trial. I think cross protection from serious disease will be longer lived and the most important factor, but I don’t discount slightly waning antibodies.
Here are the antibody levels from the Lancet paper - note the prime levels falling at day 56 (8 weeks) and maintained with a boost.
https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(20)31604-4/fulltext
If I were offered the choice, I’d like my nex for injection in four weeks please. Still no more than a slightly sore arm....
@TiRed
I had an email from the trial this morning.
Re
the duration of protection is not known
The email states-
The JCVI recommends that anyone who has received 2 doses of the Oxford AstraZeneca vaccine does not require any further booster vaccination against COVID-19 at present.
I guess the key word is at present...
I had, it turns out, 2 doses of ox/az 12 weeks apart last June and September, and went for further bloods 10 days ago- antibody levels I presume. I was wondering if 6 months after my last dose I was still covered and it turns out I should be which is great.
To summarise our findings:
Regardless of dose level or dose interval, no participants in the trials who received the Oxford AstraZeneca vaccine were hospitalised, experienced severe disease or died of COVID-19.
A single dose of the Oxford AstraZeneca vaccine offered protection from COVID-19 disease lasting up to 3 months with a vaccine efficacy of 76%.
After the second dose, the vaccine is more effective and antibody levels are higher the longer the interval between doses.
I guess the key word is at present…
Exactly this. Studies monitoring antibody titer are ongoing, naturally. But as I alluded to some time ago. we're probably not even halfway through the first natural endemic seasonal cycle of reinfections. But gosh how much we have learned! If I had to guess (like JCVI), I'd say biannual boosting would be good, annual probably more likely for those at risk/high exposure (like yourself). Cross reactive cover for morbidity looks promising too, but symptoms may still pertain. As long as any existing antibody halts the virus before it falls down into the lungs, I think that is a great result.
I'll just stress the "three months" there - about 10% of a typical coronavirus reinfection cycle. I'm OK with not knowing as that's science, but one should have some mitigation strategies for these known unknowns.
Poopscoop
Full MemberHowever, to then rub it into our nearest neighbours noses, effectively reveling in peoples deaths and misery is beyond sh*t in my opinion.
No wonder they are likely to cut exports to us, what a vindictive little country we have become. Sorry, not sure where to post this and dont want to go off topic. Just wanted to vent.
Do they not get that if the EU vaccine (and world) effort goes badly we lose too.😐
Also, "when can I go on holiday to Spain".
But coming from the country with one of the worst death rates in the western world, despite being rich and developed and geographically advantaged, is a double pisstake. Like celebrating scoring a goal in the last minute when you're 10-0 down.
Good god the daily express is depressing to know exists.
If it offered news from different perspective fine, but it’s just bllx
So in the news today, wave three inevitable says Boris.
Gee, great.
Note that they've already started blaming Europe rather than their inevitable shortcomings with the announcement as well. Bastards.
Can someone tell me ho many under 50s in UK and worldwide have died from it please?
@Kryton57 Arse covering of spectacular proportion there, I thought.
With a "cheeky" "telling it like it is" side order of blaming the neighbours.
Can someone tell me ho many under 50s in UK and worldwide have died from it please?
Too many.
Note that they’ve already started blaming Europe rather than their inevitable shortcomings
Genuinely, how can you say "the next wave is coming from....." and not put in place proper border controls and quarantine restrictions. Are they really that ****ing stupid?
Yes, clearly, but I was hoping furan actual figure for a discussion somewhere else.
I suspect an actual figure isn't achievable. Might be some educated guesses.
Anything on ourworldindata
Are they really that **** stupid?
No. Remember it is about media management and popular belief for them. They will only try and take control as regards another wave if they feel that not doing so will hurt them in the media and with their voters.
Anyway, sorry for a Telegraph link, but this is a good little read about learning lessons and proving our capabilities (or not) as regards controlling (or not) novel viruses:
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/health-fitness/body/covid-happened-next-pandemic-might-look-like/
Yes, clearly, but I was hoping furan actual figure for a discussion somewhere else
From this:
from June to the end of January in England looks to be about 1400.
Some estimates based on US data suggesting 1% of total
Surely the wave that Europe is now seeing is thanks to the Kent variant that we've exported to them, so any Boris baloney about it "washing up on our shores" should be about it "washing off from our shores".
We’re currently keeping the beaches clean by a mixture of “lockdown” measures, and cold weather. It could all be very different come the summer.
[ analogy stretched to breaking point ]
But yes, we gifted the main variant of concern to our neighbours, so it’s more “splash-back” we’re concerned about.
My bigger concern is that having higher numbers of cases all across Europe could lead to even more troublesome variants too soon for vaccine development and production to be ready for them.
As of last week's data summarizing from 2020W1 to 2021W9 (we are now in Week 11), there have been a total of 2789 COVID19 deaths in the 0-49 age group where COVID19 was mentioned on the death certificate.
Of these deaths 1228 (44%) were recorded in the first nine weeks of 2021. in the same nine weeks a total of 5957 deaths were recorded. Although there is a necessary lag from COVID19 infections to deaths, that means COVID19 is causing causing approximately 20% of all deaths in this age group. I find the ratio of 44% worrying. For those 65 and over it is 122203 and 42446 (34%), so your odds of dying with COVID are 26% HIGHER (44%/34%) if you are younger than if you are older (because old people are more likely to die of other things)/
Not a good look 🙁
your odds of dying with COVID are 26% HIGHER (44%/34%) if you are younger than if you are older
Careful TiRed.
If you die as a younger person, there is more chance that it was because of Covid19. You are not “more likely to die” of Covid19 than an older person. I know that’s what you meant, but your bold sentence could be misunderstood and worry people unnecessarily.