Well, it will be a sign that they are ready to act, at least. A steady ramping up of social distancing measures this autumn looks like the approach… but will they keep the public informed and get them onside?
klunk - you beat me to it.
I think johnson is beginning to panic - in an Etonian way, of course.
It dumps more pressure and responsibility onto the police.
'Measured response'? Pathetic attempt at news management.
Co-incidence that brandon lewis, earlier today, said the gov would break a signed international agreement which was guaranteed to be Wednesday's media headline then this is leaked before any formal announcement.
Look! A squirrel!
It's been leaked after the main news progs; newsnight is on live with a prepped running schedule so they can't get into detail.
We're being played for fools.
Sensible measure really, but no use if there's not enough resource to enforce it properly
No a sensible measure would be shut pubs and restaurants, no private gatherings but you can still hit the pub, mental. The number of cases is ramping up fast, it's across the country, not just hot spots and now is definitively linked to social interactions and pub going, not just limited to specific communities or neighbourhoods.
now is definitively linked to social interactions and pub going,
The experts say otherwise.
The immediate discussion should be about using this leaked announcement to deflect from johnson being willing to breach a signed international agreement.
The CV19 announcement could have been made in the morning so this is a pathetic and crude attempt at news management and deflection.
The substance of the message would not be affected by not leaking and then announcing in a spaffing spiffing presser on wednesday morning pre-PMQs.
Ah, I see the problem; johnson would be neither drink nor drug free for a morning presser - he is barely coherent at 12.00 for PMQs.
As for the content of the leak - yep, all in favour of that; it should have been announced 2 weeks ago.
The Etonian buffoon is visibly struggling; how very excellent.
The shagmeister is being shown to be a shitbag.
Er… what do you mean scotroutes?
All their announcements come out this way it seems Frank… stupidly late in the evening… at least the measure in this one doesn’t come into force the next day. Why don’t we still have the daily briefings, and changes to the rules and the reasoning behind them explained to us all then?
New doublespeak this evening… we have ‘testing capacity’ but no room in labs to do that testing. If we don’t have the capacity in the labs, how do we have testing capacity?
Let’s not forget the Cumming modus operandum. One of these is a distraction. Maybe.
Or it’s the worlds biggest **** up, with the British public seemingly powerless to change its governing body.
Close contact within homes remains the most common risk of transmission identified by contact tracers.
Clearly people living with an infected person are most at risk.
But, after that, the most common contact infected individuals have is with visitors to their household, according to data gathered by England's NHS Test and Trace service.
It is ahead of leisure venues, shops, workplaces and health and care settings.
Clearly large gatherings in homes - especially indoors which is more likely to happen when the weather turns - present the greatest risk.
Quoted from the BBC.
So Test and Trace are saying that their data has traced more contacts to people visiting houses than other locations mentioned. Not surprised by that really - probably easier to trace people that the infected person knows. Little surprised that the new restriction on meeting up also applies to outdoor settings - but I suppose that's for ease of enforcement.
That's consistent with what was found in Glasgow. Probably fair to say that meeting in pubs etc can be safer than meeting at home, because in pubs there are rules, there's staff, and more peer/outsider pressure/awareness of being observed. Whereas at home, not so much.
I've a feeling that the actual risk factor there is actually Being A Cock.
kelvin - yes, they seem to have adopted a routine of late evening leaked announcements which now no longer fool anyone capable of rational thinking or critical reasoning.
As an old etonian with a classics background, johnson should understand the importance of clear thinking and clear comms.
Is the game trying to fool some of the people all of the time or all of the people some of the time?
Either way, it isn't working well enough.
Having said that, this evening's leak has displaced brandon lewis's comments about breaching a signed international treaty from the front pages.
Starmer is spoiled for choice on what to lead with at PMQs; looking forward to another ritual skewering of johnson. What a target; you couldn't miss - but corbyn did, regularly.
Wonder if Boris is actually preparing for PMQ's this time?
I suspect he just see it as a bit of an inconvenience, you know, having to actually justify his decisions. How dare they.
Sorry to go off track.
Poop - he's dismally failed to prepare for any previous editions of PMQs and I can't see that changing.
^^Nope, I just don't think he gives a **** to be honest.
Much better than putin or trump claiming they either have a functioning vaccine now or will have one...soon.
I have little faith in a vaccine ever being developed; if it happens - great but I'll live my life on the assumption it doesn't and there won't be an antidote.
It's the second time Astra have paused the trials, does seem to be a pretty standard/common event apparently... so fingers crossed.
In the situation I'm in at home my life is basically on pause till/if there is a vaccine.
I'm trying to remain optimistic, not always easy though.
Large trials have serious adverse events. That’s not unusual and more likely for large sample sizes. Don’t read much into this at the moment. Adverse events of special interest are just that, things we are looking for. Antibody enhanced infection would be concerning. Being run over leaving the clinic (which is an AE) is less interesting - except for the participant.
TiRed, thanks for...
Being run over leaving the clinic (which is an AE) is less interesting – except for the participant.
You may have temporarily lost your cycling performance but your sense of humour is intact.
Yes - as above, a pause in trial recruitment while a committee convenes to determine the importance of a safety event is standard. That Sky news article is pretty bland but accurate.
Given whats at stake, I would say that efficacy is more of a concern.
Hopefully the Russians are collecting the data needed for approval, after they approved it.
"The rise in cases in Bolton is partly due to socialising by people in their 20s and 30s. We know this from contact tracing.
"And through our contact tracing system we've identified a number of pubs at which the virus has spread significantly."
So pubs clearly an issue in Bolton, a precursor of what is to come.
Going to a pub or restaurant and not following social distancing rules there is the issue.
Fine for those of us with an ounce of sense and self control around alcohol. The other 80% are the problem.
Pubs aren’t magic. Schools aren’t magic. Transmission will occur at both. If anyone thinks we can get through this winter using just “common sense”, rather than a series of extra restrictions based on difficult trade offs needs to reset their expectations.
Is it perhaps possible that evidence for transmission in pubs is absent more due to the failings of the track and trace system rather than because of a magic force field which stops you passing it on within 10 metres of a row of optics?
You can normally provide the names of household contacts pretty quickly. The 'sign in at pubs' is less robust (is everyone providing accurate details as they lurch from bar to bar?), and quite possibly leads to fewer positive tests being linked to transmission at the boozer.
Either that or Tim Wetherspoon has photos of Boris meeting the Russians over a cheap breakfast.
More than happy to take whatever trade offs are needed to keep schools open as much as possible. The change in my kids in the last couple of weeks has shown how important it is.
But if that means closing pubs, restaurants and entertainment venues wholesale, then there needs to be a packet of measures to help the owners and their staff. Especially the responsible ones who have been trying to make it work safely with reduced capacity. Idiots who let customers flout the rules can lose their licenses and be shut down as far as I care.
More than happy to take whatever trade offs are needed to keep schools open as much as possible. The change in my kids in the last couple of weeks has shown how important it is.
I notice we haven't heard a great deal from Whitty recently, the same Whitty who suggested earlier in the summer that closing the pubs might be necessary to keep schools open...
needs to be a packet of measures to help the owners and their staff
Absolutely. I fear that, again, as in earlier this year, their policy will be to ‘let’ pubs stay open, but increasingly hint that we should be leaving them empty… so no trade and no help with coping with that. As a pub lover, I’m really worried about where this ends up for us. Pretending that they form no part in spreading the virus doesn’t help anyone though. A phone based contact tracing app might have helped here.
Hancock on radio4 now…
Good: he’s openly saying that a second wave is coming and action is required
Bad: he blames testing shortages on the people seeking tests
Schools aren’t magic
Yes, they are and I'm Gandalf!!!
Bad: he blames testing shortages on the people seeking tests
Not entirely sure how that explains people being directed to the opposite end of the country. Is it some sort of triage system to put off the malingerers?
Yes, they are and I’m Gandalf!!!
Is your motto 'You Shall Not Pass!' ?
It’s just bullshit and blame shifting. He was talking about ‘not wanting to introduce’ some kind of triaging and/or checking that people are eligible for a test… no evidence was presented to support his supposition that it is people asking for tests that shouldn’t that are the problem (rather than Serco being months behind getting everything in place in time for the return to schools etc).
Is your motto ‘You Shall Not Pass!’ ?
You've seen me teach?
Hang on I need to do some magic one of my tutor group is off with symptoms awaiting test results.....need to consult that wizard with birds in his hair....
Pubs aren’t magic. Schools aren’t magic. Transmission will occur at both. If anyone thinks we can get through this winter using just “common sense”, rather than a series of extra restrictions based on difficult trade offs needs to reset their expectations.
Yup
Especially the responsible ones who have been trying to make it work safely with reduced capacity.
Slight diversion but one large pub chain (forget which) has been "helping out" by knocking the service charge off bills. That's nice. So the staff ( poorly paid young people) are subsidising the return to normal. But hey, let's blame them for the second wave, eh!
?
In light of today's announcement (and I apologies, this may have been answered before, I've kept of this thread for a while for the sake of my sanity), I have a couple of questions:
1. What is the end goal for Covid? Given we clearly can’t eliminate Covid for the foreseeable, and it seems what whilst cases are rising, deaths aren’t really. So where are we trying to get to as a country? Any plans needs to have an end goal, so what are we working to?
2. At what point (number deaths, infections, whatever) do we have to accept it as part of the risks of everyday life?
Lunge is Kier Starmer and I claim my £5.
I suspect then current plan is to bumble around various waves until a viable vaccine appears, whilst at the same time trying to keep capitalism ticking over. When a vaccine does appear we’ll all be encouraged to pump ourselves full of it and get back on the tubes to work.
Slight diversion but one large pub chain (forget which) has been “helping out” by knocking the service charge off bills. That’s nice. So the staff ( poorly paid young people) are subsidising the return to normal. But hey, let’s blame them for the second wave, eh!
Thats just a succint way of saying 10% off, without having to reprint all their menus.
Might also be a nudge to get people to tip more than they would have done too.
End goal is a combination of regular vaccination and herd immunity, plus a continuation of social distancing measures in the medium term. In the meantime new treatment strategies will develop to mitigate the severity of infection in more vulnerable people.
At some point the definition of 'everyday life' will change. Perhaps to not include some of the things we took for granted before this.
If a viable vaccine fails to appear (and this is very much in the balance), then 'everyday life' will look very different.
Thats just a succint way of saying 10% off, without having to reprint all their menus.
Might also be a nudge to get people to tip more than they would have done too.
This. At our recent holiday resort we received stunning service from our “bubble” waitress from behind ppe. No cash on resort so we took her details and stuck £20 of Amazon vouchers and a Thank you card written by the kids in the post.
What a lovely thing to do!
-----
Lots of interesting stuff on this week's "More or Less" related to risk, testing, and contact tracing... and the numbers thrown around about them.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/m000mb06
Colleague at work has been told to be prepared to leave the lab & go back to hospital as there's been sharp increase in admissions & they are already at winter levels of bed occupancy 😬
Thats just a succint way of saying 10% off, without having to reprint all their menus.
I’ll pass that on. All young people will be happy to do their bit to protect the environment and avoid waste paper 🙂
Anthony Costello pointed out that the tests people are having to travel for could be carried out by GPs but it's the Tories' ideological commitment to the idea that Covid will be sorted by the private sector that stops them. Can't imagine why they might be trying to persuade people that the private sector is superior to the NHS.
Can’t imagine why they might be trying to persuade people that the private sector is superior to the NHS.
I don't think that's what is happening at all... it's just more of the reframing of what the NHS is... just a strong logo to hang on things that need support from the public. They won't accept the NHS being (obviously) taken away from them... but they will cooperate with and support private companies when they use the NHS logo.
Knees and toes, knees and toes.
Colleague at work has been told to be prepared to leave the lab & go back to hospital as there’s been sharp increase in admissions & they are already at winter levels of bed occupancy
Where, out of interest?
Shall we have a sweepstake on at what point, just like March, they belatedly shut everything down in a mad panic?
