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God forgive me… but Hunt.
🤣
God does not forgive that easily.
You're probably right. Shows how low we have sunk, though. I remember how reviled he was as Health Secretary. Happier times.
Too late now but we should have had a government of national unity (like we had in ww2) and UBI,we have one of the most incompetent governments I can remember in my 60 years with the most incompetent Prime Minister,the big question is what does the future hold for all of us, from where I'm sat it doesn't look bright
They tried dam hard to create national unity and a war like spirit. Just look at the language they used both verbal and visual. Boris did is best Churchill impression and at the start it worked but everyone soon realised it was one rule for them and another for everyone else (aka Cummings and Hancocks late night drinking in parliament).
Personally for me how they spoke to the public at the start and now was awful suggesting people get through the illness with "courage" and being "strong" which automatically suggest if you don't get through it you don't have courage and are not strong.
Well, yes, but who the hell will we end up with then?
My money's on Rishi...
My money’s on Rishi…
He's even worse than Boris. It's one thing resisting taking the action required because you don't want to be the bearer of bad news, but quite another to do so because you're pretending it's unaffordable due to political ideology.
He’s even worse than Boris.
I agree.
Do we think that Boris will let all those who have booked for the summer go on holiday without quarantine on return.
Might be a decent way of working on the deficit though if they have to pay £1500 each for 10 days of sitting in a hotel.
Boris did is best Churchill impression
Boris has been doing a shit Churchill impression since he left Eton. He's finally found himself in a position where being Churchillian and working his arse off might be useful, and it's all gone south for him.
Do we think that Boris will let all those who have booked for the summer go on holiday without quarantine on return.
Nope. And what's the betting that the t&cs for cancellation/refund or insurance do not allow 'not wanting to travel because of quarantine on return'?
Honestly I hope you are right, assuming they are fine to go on holiday just because they have the privilege of getting the vaccine (i will have it early too) but like hell am I planning any trips abroad until Xmas at the earliest
Is anyone else seeing a really concerted effort by the RW press to say how well Boris has been doing ("no one works harder...") and how Britain as a major international travel hub, high population density etc was always going to have trouble controlling the virus?
There's some really strong diversionary and blame-shifting tactics being used here and every time people rebut this they're told to stop making it political or some whataboutery ("well, it's better than Corbyn would have done..." / "well you can't compare us to New Zealand...")
100,000 people dead and the front page of The Sun is a picture of Boris being sad about that.
Is anyone else seeing a really concerted effort by the RW press to say how well Boris has been doing (“no one works harder…”)
They have in general over the last year been the most anti-tory I have ever seen (apart from specifically when they were going against cameron on brexit).
They change their "views" daily, and have opinion pieces deliberately contradicting the narrative of the main stories/articles, to either stoke up some anger (and clicks) or to desperately avoid taking sides when they have no idea who the winners and losers are going to be.
On my way home from work last night I listened to R4 programme “File on 4” It followed NHS staff throughout the pandemic, and was prettt harrowing. Should be compulsory listening for any Non-believers.
Johnson at PMQs:
Johnson says he mourns every day. He shares the grief of those bereaved. He takes full responsibility, he says. There will be a time to learn the lessons and reflect on them. But that moment is not now, he says.
Not now? What an arrogant fool. He should have been doing lessons learned all through last year, instead he's still making it all up as he goes.
Good god... the "PM" responding to questions about support for home learning and vaccinations for key staff with a call for Starmer to "say schools are safe"...
And again!
No answer to questions... demands the leader of the opposition says "schools are safe"...
how Britain as a major international travel hub, high population density etc was always going to have trouble controlling the virus?
The left wing press are saying the same - though the lefties believe it should have demonstrated that firmer action was required and the right are using it as an excuse for being rubbish
Nope. And what’s the betting that the t&cs for cancellation/refund or insurance do not allow ‘not wanting to travel because of quarantine on return’?
As someone that's just left the travel sector I have seen both sides of this and things are bad - im talking cancellations / refunds up around 200%. I feel like right now if you're going on holiday you should know the risks. You may have trouble getting back, isolation on arrival and return, or even cancelled last minute flights. The travel sector has taken a beating the last year so no longer can afford to do the customer centric thing and just hand someone their money back because they don't want to isolate. Its not nice but businesses need to survive and they can't just hemorrhage money.
Don’t forget he was insisting schools were safe the day before he closed them. He must have know he was lying.
oh I've not forgotten.. my wife is a teacher.. many tears regularly shed in this house.
Boris Johnson should resign.
Ageed.
But he won't.. because the party have realised he's a disaster who cannot win another election but he's also a scapegoat for the current situation.
I think we'll be stuck with him for a few months yet.. until we're on the way out of this and it won't taint a new leader..
Johnson says he mourns every day. He shares the grief of those bereaved. He takes full responsibility, he says. There will be a time to learn the lessons and reflect on them. But that moment is not now, he says.
Not the time to learn lessons?
We can take it from that statement that we're doomed to keep repeating the same grim cycle then? Lock down too late, open up too early.
The usual Tory headbangers are already agitating for restrictions to be lifted. No doubt the spineless windbag will once again do their bidding. I expect the resulting, inevitable Lockdown 4 will also arrive several weeks too late
Don’t forget he was insisting schools were safe the day before he closed them. He must have know he was lying.
In an era when words are twisted to 'That's not what we meant' with alarming levels of obfuscation and sheer brassneck, this one takes the biscuit
<p class="css-38z03z">There was much the same lack of detail during the following urgent question, on when schools might reopen. Though for once this was nothing to do with the uselessness of Gavin Williamson as the education secretary had left his junior minister, Nick Gibb, to do the gig of letting everyone know he didn’t know what was going on. Which wasn’t a wholly bad move, as Gibb is a great deal more competent than Gav and if he doesn’t know then almost certainly no one else does either.</p>
<p class="css-38z03z">Some schools might open at half-term, Gibb said, some might open at Easter and some might open at some other – as yet unspecified – date. It was possible some schools could open by region rather than as a national body, but it was basically all still a mystery.</p>
<p class="css-38z03z">Though Gibb did rather muddy the waters by saying the reason that the schools were closed had nothing to do with them being unsafe. The safety element only became a factor when schools had pupils and staff in them to increase the chances of community transmission. It must have taken some skill to say that with a straight face, though Gibb doesn’t look like a man prone to many laughs. That’s what working with Williamson can do to you, I guess.</p>
So when they said schools were safe, what they meant was the buildings themselves. If we interpreted it as schools full of staff and pupils being safe, then it's our fault for misunderstanding.
*****
I listened to R4 programme “File on 4” It followed NHS staff throughout the pandemic, and was prettt harrowing. Should be compulsory listening for any Non-believers.
Aye,then make them listen to the poem from last year "My sister is not a statistic".
https://twitter.com/BBCRadio4/status/1354121897915658245
potentially unpleasant covid test in China
Can imagine this would make the drive through testing centres a little different!
But he won’t.. because the party have realised he’s a disaster who cannot win another election but he’s also a scapegoat for the current situation.
In some respects - good.
He always wanted to be PM. He always felt it was his destiny. He's compared himself so many times to Churchill.
Well now he's reaping all of that. His reputation will (hopefully) be in tatters, he'll be remembered as one of the worst PM's we've ever had (and that is up against a seriously low bar of competition) and he'll be remembered as one of the main driving forces for the absolute catastrophe that is Leave / Brexit.
In some perverse corner of my mind, while wishing we could be anywhere other than Brexit Plague Island right now, I hope he stays there as PM, hating every second of it, seeing his reputation slide ever further, seeing Scotland vote for independence and ultimately ending up in total utter ignominy. And anyway, there's no-one else who'd be doing much of a better job as PM waiting in the wings. Gove, Hancock, Sunak? Priti Patel?! [/shudder]
No doubt we're about to hear a half arsed/too late piece of nonsense shortly...
He's on his feet now announcing the measures he should have announced a full twelve months ago
As this idiot announces the requirement to quarantine on entering the country, lets remind ourselves that 12 months ago, when he was yet to bother attending any COBRA meetings, 5,000 Atletico Madrid fans flew into Liverpool from what was then the epicentre of the infection in Europe, for a Champions League game.
The Spanish FA had shut down their own league a month earlier. Most of those that came over made a holiday of it and enjoyed a few days spreading the virus around the north west of England
Nicola Sturgoen has already said that the quarantine hotel place isn't comprehensive enough (without pre-announcing it) and that Scotland might take a more wide-spread approach.
10 months not 12 binners... but everything else in your post stands.
I remember being absolutely incredulous that that game was going ahead. Thousands of people simply walking off the plane and out of the front doors. It seemed like utter and complete madness. It was known that Covid was ripping through Spain at the time and two thirds of all cases were in Madrid.
Wasn't it the following weekend that the Cheltenham Festival went ahead? With 250,000 people attending?
Everyone needs to be screaming this at the useless fly-tipped sofa as he put his best sad face on and says 'we did everything we could'
NO YOU ****ING DIDN'T!!!!
You did the very least you could until the very latest you could
100,000 people dead and the front page of The Sun is a picture of Boris being sad about that.
Could be worse - Patel saying she's sorry if you feel you are dead.
English schools will not open until at least 8th March
100k dead and rising and tory MPs in parliament are using the flippant phrase 'Captain Hindsight' to make an infantile political jibe. Utter. F***. C*.
You did the least you could until the latest you could
Indeed.
Too little, too late... accuse everyone else of being fun sponges for supporting the means and timing that scientists made clear were needed... and then, once the time has passed... go into "alas" mode and announce a cut down version of the means days/weeks/months after the point where they could have been most effective.
Stable door held open.
Wait 'till the horse is already running loose.
Swing the door shut rather than properly close and fasten it.
Repeat.
Repeat again.
Nicola Sturgoen has already said that the quarantine hotel place isn’t comprehensive enough (without pre-announcing it) and that Scotland might take a more wide-spread approach.
I'm sure we can expect the usual then?
Amazing man can see week into England's future by watching Scottish news
I knew I'd seen all this somewhere before. It is actually the Four Stage Strategy, as described by Sir Humphrey Appleby.
The prime minister is widely expected to travel to Scotland on Thursday.
But Ms Sturgeon said she was "not ecstatic" about the plan, saying leaders should abide by the same rules as they ask of the general public.
Asked about the trip, Scottish Secretary Alister Jack said Mr Johnson would go "wherever he needs to go in his vital work against this pandemic".
Ms Sturgeon also voiced concerns that UK plans for tougher quarantine rules "do not go far enough", as the UK government announced that UK citizens arriving from regions with new virus variants would be provided accommodation for 10 days to isolate.
Ms Sturgeon also voiced concerns that UK plans for tougher quarantine rules “do not go far enough”
How many times have we heard that over the last 12 months?
He won't do whats required because of the howls from the Desmond Swaynes and John Redwoods on his backbenches. He is utterly spineless and caves in as soon as the libertarian headbangers start screaming about infringement of liberties and damage to the economy.
Once again, as with Brexit, the tail is wagging the dog. A small group of far right lunatics are dictating policy which is hugely damaging to the country. Even with an 80 seat majority he refuses to face up to them and simply gives in to their demands. Its why everything is so half-arsed and far too late
The problem is that he shows no stomach, even now, to do what needs to be done. All I see is an endless cycle of lockdowns as he sits dithering and hiding from his responsibilities like the coward he is
Even with an 80 seat majority he refuses to face up to them and simply gives in to their demands.
no he's not he's siding with them.
Quite a neat summary!
dazh
Full Member100k dead and rising and tory MPs in parliament are using the flippant phrase ‘Captain Hindsight’ to make an infantile political jibe. Utter. F***. C*.
They love that Captain Hindsight line so much that they shout it at him when he's making predictions, or saying "In November I predicted this and told the prime minister that if he didn't take action, this would happen". Foresight is actually quite a good power, if not generally considered a superpower, more a prerequisite for people who want to run countries.
But most of the time Starmer doesn't even need his Foresight powers, he just needs Normal Sight. "See this thing that's happening today, which is in the papers and suchlike? Should probably do something about it." But Dr Deny-Reality is his kryptonite.
Boris has been doing a shit Churchill impression since he left Eton. He’s finally found himself in a position where being Churchillian and working his arse off might be useful, and it’s all gone south for him.
Churchill had the V-sign, Boris apes this by proudly showing us his opposable thumbs at every opportunity. The irony being he has spectacularly displayed a constant ability to grasp anything.
this exchange amused me.
Ian Blackford, the SNP leader at Westminster, asked Johnson to maintain the universal credit uplift and improve support for the self-employed.
Johnson said the SNP should stop talking about an independence referendum.
Who is it that keeps banging on about independence -?
Oh damnation - this has got back into politics again. We really should try to keep it on topic. Sorry chaps for my part
Poopscoop
Full Member
@seadog101
Full Member
Hurrah!Glad to see you back safe and sound. Have you returned a tanned Adonis after hitting the onboard gym hard?
With my skin colouring? One glimpse of the sun unpon my unprotected (Boilersuit and balaclava) skin and I am instant Mr Lobster. Gymmage time was attained, but too many Sticky Toffee pudding sundays ruined the effect.
Looks like I'll be stuffed next time I come home if the new rules are not changed in the next 12 weeks. There's going to be many like me who are going to suffer. Those of us who have to go abroad on a regular basis to earn our keep, that brings money into the economy and taxes into the coffers, are going to see very litlle of my home and family. My mcurrent routine is 2 weeks pre-joining isolation, 6 weeks on the ship, 4 weeks home. Now, if exemptions are not permitted, I'll lose 2 of those precious 4 weeks home. If I'm lucky the company will pay for the hotel, but there'll be no extra to cover the lost time at home. Anyone want to swap jobs?
Maybe I should retrain in Cyber, but don't know it (whatever that is...).
potentially unpleasant covid test in China
Operation Moonshot no problem in China. 🙂
Could learn a thing or two though - might dissuade folk from risky behaviour if part of the reward was having a swab stuffed up your arse and swivelled in the middle of a hospital car park.
PS I notice Boris is rumoured to be sketching out the necessary conditions for lockdown to be ended, presumably on the back of an off-licence receipt.
I know we all have short memories, but I seem to recall a similar roadmap to freedom touted during the first lockdown, which was promptly lifted without all the conditions being met, and ignored thereafter when the conditions for locking down again were breached.
Operation holeshot surely.
But yeah the prospect of having to drop trousers and bend over in a car park might dissuade some from being careless
too many Sticky Toffee pudding sundays
I've stopped feeling sorry for you.
[ joke - of course - you're in a very difficult position while we wade through this ]
He won’t do whats required because of the howls from the Desmond Swaynes and John Redwoods on his backbenches. He is utterly spineless and caves in as soon as the libertarian headbangers start screaming about infringement of liberties and damage to the economy.
Don't think he's spineless or caving in at all. He's one of them, just a more successful liar.
Herd immunity from the start was always his aim. Clear to see they're still pursuing it through the back door of "schools are safe".
But, big but, this narrative of a spineless weak leader plays right into the hands of what they want next. Strong leadership from someone not afraid to make hard decisions and upset a few people. Priti Patel probably.
Be careful what you wish for.
Jesus christ thats awful
My wife has Covid. We are now locked down for 11 days.
She works for the NHS on the virtual covid ward project in Blackburn. That's where Covid patients are rapidly discharged from hospital to be treated at home.
She was vaccinated (Jab 1) 2 weeks ago. She's been going in to live Covid patients homes on a daily basis since November.
I have no symptoms at the moment. She has mild symptoms. We are fine. But the risks around assuming we will be fine to roam the streets and pubs once we each get the jab is probably over optimistic.
holy shiv balls - that's bonkers. on one hand you think -fine, take him wach him die, on the other they (docs), know that they have a duty of care to keep him alive... security should have come in early and lamped the ****s..
She was vaccinated (Jab 1) 2 weeks ago.
But the risks around assuming we will be fine to roam the streets and pubs once we each get the jab is probably over optimistic.
Indeed. The announcement today that they will make an announcement in February (or rather them saying they now have a plan to produce a plan) about removing restrictions, especially for schools, had better take account of the delay between receiving a vaccination and developing protection. I really hope it includes vaccinating staff several weeks before any return to normal for their workplace, assuming they are public facing. Doubt it will though.
I have no symptoms at the moment. She has mild symptoms
Good luck, I didnt catch it off wife with almost no distancing in the house....did get it at school months later...
Don’t think he’s spineless or caving in at all. He’s one of them, just a more successful liar.
I don’t think he is ‘one of them’ at all. He belongs to no group. He is a totally self-serving narcissist, loyal only to himself. He has no ideology and no beliefs, no loyalties at all. Just whatever suits.
He goes along with whatever best serves his purpose at the time, and will change his position completely without a second thought, if something else then benefits him more. Just ask the DUP, Theresa May or any number of his paid off mistresses and undisclosed number of abandoned children
He’s an utter charlatan and completely untrustworthy on every single level
It was one of his aides as London Mayor who said of him
“everyone loves Boris...
apart from those who know him”
That video ^^^^^
My God.
And I bet its not unique. Those morons shouldnt be allowed outside, let alone on a covid ward
The poor doctor trying to do his best
Although maybe the old geez just wanted to go home and die with the brainless family at his side, as opposed to alone on a ward so he txtd them to come pick him up
That Twitter vid is depressing
Whats also depressing is knowing a number of people I can ‘imagine’ doing the same.
Someone Ive known for years (she is in the mutant turtles hidden by the government camp) tried to talk her elderly mother out of receiving a vaccination as it’s all a plot to control people somehow.
That video is awful.
Can we not just lock those who are refusing treatment into one place, that way they can't pass it on to us before they die
it's amazing that they were allowed on the ward at all.
Could they not have called the police and enforced a quarantine on them?
Seeing as they had definitely been exposed
The level of utter stupidity of some people really is staggering
Glad the solicitor has given their professional medical opinion that some Vitamin C and D will do the trick.
Don't know why we're wasting our time with oxygen, dexamethasone and the like.
Stupid doctors.
[facepalm of epic proportions]
I did a bit of digging around for a few minutes whilst waiting for the tea to brew.
Tobe Hayden Leigh (for it was he) is a Covid denying nutter. Popsey Wiles who seems to be involved is a spiritual healer. So it was all above board, they were going to cure him at home!!
Hayden Leigh "is wanted in connection with a public nuisance offence following a report police received from East Surrey Hospital on Saturday".
First vaccine today through the local voluntary services organisation (I’m a volunteer delivery rider).
It was utterly impressive. Calm, organised distanced and a constant flow of people. You are not allowed to hug the nurses for obvious reasons but it was the first time I’ve felt a glimmer of hope for a while. The NHS is amazing.
If they carry on like this we can afford to be a bit more optimistic. No change in behaviour until we have many more vaccinated but there is a pathway to better times ahead now.
The EU seem to be throwing out the teddies over AZs supply issues.
Herd immunity from the start was always his aim.
I've said before that passive herd immunity (by that I mean acquired by natural infection) can no more be a policy than flooding can be a policy. It's what happens in the absence of human intervention. It's spin for no policy.
MrsMC had her first jab today (frontline social worker). Also reported an incredibly slick and efficient service 👍
@Mark, sorry to hear that mate, hoping you and your wife make a quick recovery.
That video. I find it utterly and totally depressing.
Covid has brought out the absolute best in so many.
The absolute worse in a significant, noisy minority.
My heart goes out to that doctor. What must he feel like at the end of any shift these days let alone having to put up with utter turds like that guy?
Times like that you want US hospital security ....
What do we think 'normal' will look like once/if everyone gets vaccinated x2?
I notice Whitty et al casually introduce the idea that vaccination may reduce severity and may or may not reduce transmission and therefore we may not get back to how it was.
Meanwhile the SAGA members are booking holidays.
27.01.21 Group 4 East Devon still no notification.
However Ms Sturgeon - who was briefed on the UK government proposals in advance - told her daily coronavirus briefing that a "comprehensive system of supervised quarantine" was required in the next stage of the pandemic.
"Our best route back to greater domestic normality right now, as we continue with the vaccine programme, is firstly to suppress the virus here to as low as level as possible - as we did over the summer - then give ourselves a better chance of controlling it through test and protect, and next by doing much more than we did last year to protect our borders."
But she said people "might not be able to go on holiday overseas" in order to "get domestic normality" back - including the reopening of schools and allowing people more interactions with loved ones
An actual strategy. If this had been done first time around there's a chance we all might be going about our business fairly normally right now (without overseas travel of course). I wonder how far she will get with persuading Boris. Difficult to make this work without UK-wide agreement unfortunately.
That was their strategy last year. But then the UK gov went “back to worK”, “save Pret”, “save Spoons”, “ween you off Furlough”, “no mixed learning”, “all kids on site every day”, “first years in hall”… and a keep low and contain plan for any nation of the UK was over.
I would like to know in what way preparation was considered for the 'second wave' last year once the 'first wave' had been dampened down. All this seems so inevitable now in hindsight with no significant herd immunity either through infection of vaccination in place. Did they just hope for the best without planning for the worst?
Depends who ‘they’ are. SAGE notes say they were calling for measures for months.
EDIT: September:
@mariner patience please!
They are genuinely going as fast as they can but there’s big variations nationally and partly down to where the vaccine has been delivered. It wouldn’t surprise me if Deliveries were partly targeted to areas with higher numbers - my parents are group 4 near Birmingham and were vaccinated last week but their areas case rate is about 5 times of Devon!
I’m North Devon and group 2 but was only vaccinated yesterday. All our sector of nhs healthcare teams up here Are being done this week but I know of colleagues in group 2 closer to you that haven’t had a offer to book a slot yet.
The whole process from invitation to jab is efficient and organised the teams administering the vaccine are clearly working as hard and fast as they safely can. Kudos to anyone involved on delivering it!
@mariner patience please!
Not panicking but just like to keep the powers that be on their toes.
Would hate to see headlines about targets being fully met while still waiting.
My 92 year old neighbour is also still waiting in fact apart from one 80 year old chancer who happened to be in the right place at the right time I don't know anyone who has had the vaccination yet.
@mariner last time I spoke to my granddad he told me that the 97 year old lady over the road had been to get her vax and the 30 minute queue freezing outside nearly killed her. Consequently he said he (86) and my Nana (96) would be best off staying put and asking someone to come to their house to do it. They'd been isolating for 10 months already and had been managing reasonably well.
Unfortunately it turned out that my Nana had picked up Covid whilst in hospital over xmas. Amazingly she's been asymptomatic, but my granddad picked it up from her and has been in hospital now for over a week. It sounds like he might pull through, but will have lasting damage. Given he was her full-time carer Nana's finally had to leave her home and go into a care home on the other side of the country, effectively locked in a room on her own with her dementia. Luckily she can manage to skype so we're all trying to keep her spirits up. I really don't know if she'll last long enough to see him again. A bit a shit way for things to end.
reeksy, that's terrible to read.
I truly hope your grandad pulls through and they do get to reunite again.