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Sad, but think of all the equity that’s going to be released…
Not following the stock market then?
Millions of Britons will need to contract coronavirus in order to control the impact of the disease which is likely to return “year on year”, the government’s chief scientific adviser has told Sky News.
Around 60% of the UK population will need to become infected with coronavirus in order for society to have “herd immunity” from future outbreaks, Sir Patrick Vallance said.
eh ? they won't have any evidence on this at all! not until we've had a few yearly cycles of it surely. It could very well be like flu or the common cold where we have no immunity to new strains.
We are nowhere near the exponential rate of cases seen on the epidemic spike at the moment.
I’m just quoting these for comparison and consideration.
looks at y axis, sees log scale, looks at commets on internets, face palms
My comment was a direct quote from the UK's chief scientist in yesterday's press conference. It's still on iPlayer if you want to watch it.
Or you could continue to make snide comments that make you seem like you know what you're on about.
Dreadful stuff. Keep the politics out of it. I wish Boris* all the best, it's in all our interest he succeeds and makes the best choices.
We (well the survivors at least) will have the chance to hold him to account if necessary in the future.
sees log scale
Ssshhh… that graph was supposed to reassure the kind of people that don’t look at scales… as was the suggestion that Italy was under-diagnosing/testing, but we are not, despite the numbers actually suggesting we’re lagging way behind their testing approach.
They won’t test you because they aren’t interested in numbers now – it doesn’t help plan any response.
We are nowhere near the exponential rate of cases seen on the epidemic spike at the moment.
I’m just quoting these for comparison and consideration
Real guess now, but maybe the important numbers in the immediate future are those of;
ICU admissions
deaths
rather than total actual infections (including all those with "mild" symptoms)?
Around 60% of the UK population will need to become infected with coronavirus in order for society to have “herd immunity” from future outbreaks, Sir Patrick Vallance said.
(Guess who was told not to use the phrase 'flatten the sombrero?)
It's not going away. If we had completely locked down a few weeks ago we'd be vulnerable to unmutated virus come next winter. So yeah we need to get it over the next few months, but not give it to our parents (my dad's care home has now locked down), whilst herd immunity builds, and vaccines and treatments are developed. I'll leave it at that. Unprecedented times.
I know twitter isn't really a reliable mirror on wider society, but if I were Boris I'd be taking note of the trending #borisout hashtag, as well as growing accusations that his policy amounts to a cull of old people. The other more serious thing for him is that whilst the govt dithers, everyone else is taking matters into their own hands. Sport and public events are shutting down, businesses are sending people home, and people are staying at home of their own accord. Boris can either lead that effort, or follow in it's wake. It's interesting that he's chosen the latter.
So yeah we need to get it over the next few months, but not give it to our parents (my dad’s care home has now locked down), whilst herd immunity builds
Assuming (perhaps we shouldn’t) that herd immunity can be achieved at all (this isn’t a flu virus), many health experts suggest that it’ll take 2 years to achieve… allowing enough people (60-70%?) to catch the virus in a ‘few months’ to achieve this will not work, will over stress the NHS and care system, and, as Dom Johnson has told us to prepare for, result in many extra deaths.
Boris can either lead that effort, or follow in it’s wake. It’s interesting that he’s chosen the latter.
He'll follow, that way if it works he'll say he helped and if it doesn't he'll have nothing to do with it. Go on the front foot and if infections keep going up then it'll be seen as his fault.
Boris can either lead that effort, or follow in it’s wake. It’s interesting that he’s chosen the latter.
Lyingblohard isn’t interested in the British public as a whole, he only serves himself and his crony’s.
The first option wouldn’t even occur to him, none of his cronies would offer it up either because they just hide under Whitehall’s cloak of Invisibility when called to any sort of account.
He has neither manner nor spirit to lead anything other than his nose to the bog.
Our approach seems logical and in line with many other countries if you consider the data. We are heading progressively towards a shutdown just like many of our neighbours (who are already further along the scale)
Containment doesn't seem to be a real option worlwide anymore so why are people advocating shutting everything down immediately? Covid 19 is now a virus that is here for ever, it's now all about rational control, no?
So, is [herd immunity] the goal then?
Ultimately it has to be. The virus is never going to go away. We just have to manage it so that as few people as possible die before we get to the point where we can offer vaccines to the vulnerable.
vaccines
which may never happen...
herd immunity can be achieved at all
another possibility I guess, is that it mutates into a less severe / transmissive form and the existing strain dies out
Genuine question for the bozza bashers, can you actually imagine any of the alternatives doing a better (different) job?
Would you do his job today for 160k a year and a flat above your office in Central London?
Well my hometown in the far east has started panic buying yesterday after sudden increased in virus infection due to religious gathering ...
dangeourbrain
Subscriber
Genuine question for the bozza bashers, can you actually imagine any of the alternatives doing a better (different) job?
My point is that at the moment trust in the government is key
why would anyone trust someone who has such a public history of lying?
why would you trust a government who ignored all warnings & pushed through austerity & UC that killed over 100,000 of their own citizens?
I think that it's possible that they've looked at the numbers and realised that it will not be possible to 'flatten the curve' enough to make a significant difference. Our current intensive care capacity gets overwhelmed once we have 20000 cases (we have 1000 spare ICU beds, 5% of 20000). By mid-May on the current trajectory we will have 2 million cases, requiring 100,000 ICU beds. So we are 2 orders of magnitude away from being able to cope. If that is the reality, then you minimise total deaths by just getting it over with as quickly as possible. Which would explain the current policy which appears to be aimed at maximising the spread of the virus without actually admitting that's what they are trying to do.
All those countries on lock down will have to maintain lock down until a vaccine is available, or their rates will just shoot up again. So, callous as it may seem, it's not impossible that the UK approach is the right one.
Sorry for the source, but this really is an excellent article:
Your post doesn't contain anything approaching the objective truth. It's conspiracy theory-esque nonsense and the burden of proof is on you to demonstrate that what BoJo is doing now is somehow for his cynical self interest or for some shadowy operators.
He has a very, very hard job. As others have alluded to I wouldn't want his job now for all the tea in China.
Genuine question for the bozza bashers, can you actually imagine any of the alternatives doing a better (different) job?
Jezza would have established a committee to engage in a consultation exercise to report back in 6 months (which we all know means 12) but suspended democracy and declared Marshall law in the meantime 😂
Universities are acting now… open days cancelled for my eldest. Sporting bodies are acting. Waiting for the government to act isn’t going to happen. Of course, they could well be counting on organisations not waiting for them. Classic Dom.
Genuine question for the bozza bashers, can you actually imagine any of the alternatives doing a better (different) job?
Hunt was the only other realistic leadership candidate and putative PM… and from what he has been saying, yes, I think he would have been acting differently.
Your post doesn’t contain anything approaching the objective truth. It’s conspiracy theory-esque nonsense and the burden of proof is on you to demonstrate that what BoJo is doing now is somehow for his cynical self interest or for some shadowy operators.
He has a very, very hard job. As others have alluded to I wouldn’t want his job now for all the tea in China.
I'm no fan of Boris, but very much this. As far as I can tell our Government are handling this as well or better than all the the other democratic governments.
All those countries on lock down will have to maintain lock down until a vaccine is available, or their rates will just shoot up again. So, callous as it may seem, it’s not impossible that the UK approach is the right one.
Numbers in Asia seem to be stabilising or improving, looking back over the last week.
It might be personal prejudices, but Vallance's approach seems a bit Mengeles-like to me.
Currently setting up Microsoft teams for all my senior pupils and my department are all doing the same. Order to drop everything and get on with that came in this morning at 10am, so draw your own conclusions from that....
why would anyone trust someone who has such a public history of lying?
What's your alternative? Start a revolution and overthrow the government? Barricade schools closed yourself? Run about screaming that we're all going to die?
It must be absolutely exhausting assuming bad intent for things where there (probably) is none.
What’s your alternative?
You can see what the alternatives are are… organisations taking unprecedented measures to reduce social contact without waiting for instructions or advice to do so coming from the government.
why would you trust a government
It's not about my trust in boris and his blue brigade to do what's best for me*. It's about the fact there is zero available alternative, there's no conclusive data and what ever response they pick it's bluster and a gamble at the moment.
Do I trust boris to bluster, darn tootin I do.
Do I trust him to dispassionately gamble my life in the hope he's re-elected next time? Oh yes.
Do I think he's dumb enough to think his long term goals a served by mass panic, death and destruction? No, not at all.
Ultimately you're convinced boris is wrong because you don't like boris, you don't like the tories and even if he personally developed the cure tonight, administered it to everyone tomorrow you'd be complaining he didn't do it quick enough, he is responsible for the deaths of 10 people and a dispicable human being for it.
*me being figurative, obviously what's best for me isn't the same as what's best except by coincidence.
He has a very, very hard job. As others have alluded to I wouldn’t want his job now for all the tea in China.
I wonder if even Boris wants Boris's job right now.
He did after all ride in on a ticket of horse poo populism with zero substance and a track record of flim flam hand wavey promises that either don't materialise or spectacularly fail. Competent handling of an actual crisis isn't particularly prevalent on his CV.
So you accuse me of making stuff up then change the subject when I challenge you on it?
please highlight what conspiracy theory(esque) stuff I posted?
I dont for a minute think Johnson wants to kill loads of people, I dont think that the Tories wanted to kill loads of people
I absolutely believe that they were driven by ideology of austerity that made it possible for them to ignore any warnings, I also think that there was enough detachment that dumping the worst on those at the bottom was just not a worry for them
But mostly I believe theyre guilty of hubris & arrogance
At no point have I said ignore government advice, but its perfectly right for me to criticise any failings in their approach, in my position as a keyboard expert just like all of us on here
Which would explain the current policy which appears to be aimed at maximising the spread of the virus without actually admitting that’s what they are trying to do.
I find this hard to believe, as a shadow policy of 'sharpening the curve' would be leaked pretty quickly.
However, I also don't fully understand the thinking of not attempting to isolate the most vulnerable groups now, particularly the elderly in care homes or those with significant co-morbidity. This is not a massively economically or socially active group, and they are the most likely to be in need of ICU. I understand that restrictions on their movement and visitors is a pain in the ass, but again, pushing some of these cases back even by a couple of months could be significant.
Anyone who works with models knows that the outcome is heavily dependent on the quality of the data you put in and the assumptions you make about that data and, in this case, human behaviours.
Given that we're plucking a figure out of the air for likely community cases (10,000), don't appear to have done any actual community sampling (that we know of), I wonder how confident they can be in the (non) actions they are recommending.
It must be absolutely exhausting assuming bad intent for things where there (probably) is none.
I suspect that Kimbers' point is less about outright lies fro the sheer fun of it, but more about misdirection, partial truths and the gradual reveal of a plan rahter than the upfront exposition of a goal and strategy to get there.
I understand that its unlikely that there's somebody sitting there with a fully formed dcoument in Project, and that plans need to be flexible, but there also needs to be greater confidence in the public's ability to take on, understand and prepare for situations more than 24 hours in advance.
And, politics aside, Johnson does have (lots of) previous for half baked and unsound proposals and plans, so to question and challenge what's behind this particular curtain is fair and right.
People may indeed die in large numbers, and thats something we need to prepare for, but we need to address the far more pressing issue...
No football!
please point out what is untrue in my post, objective or not?
Boris has a long career. You've taken a select list of things, grossly oversimplified them and spotted some kind of pattern, assigned agency to them and then reached a conclusion that "boris only lies" then applied that to an event the likes of which we have never seen in modern times. It is so flawed and bias ridden that it's pointless dissecting each of the individual untruths and over simplifications you made. Again, the burden of proof is with you to demonstrate that Boris is lying in his cynical self interest in the case. There is no parallel to draw between someone lying about an affair and crafting a conspiracy to kill us all for some undefined purpose.
People may indeed die in large numbers, and thats something we need to prepare for, but we need to address the far more pressing issue…
No football!
As a United fan, you are best placed to advise on how to get through months of tedium and disappointment.
where did I say he was crafting a conspiracy to kill us all?
you 'cant be bothered' to counter my 'untruths' sounds like you know they arent untruths but dont want to back down?
and if you are telling me that you think Johnson is an honest & trustworthy person, either in his private life, as a journalist or a polictician, then Im sorry but I think you are being very naive
Mrs F had to get the train today - I've just asked her if it was busy. We normally travel in the car together, but work has told a number of us to work from home to test the systems.
She managed a seat, but the station was fairly quiet, but the tram was still rammed in Manchester.
MIL's nursing home has stopped all visitors.
Right, it's nearly lunch, the sun is shining, I'm off to get the MTB out.
There is no parallel to draw between someone lying about an affair and crafting a conspiracy to kill us all for some undefined purpose.
Strawman alert. No one has said he trying to kill anyone. Not even conspiring to get them beaten up.
particularly the elderly in care homes or those with significant co-morbidity. This is not a massively economically or socially active group,
They're not massively anything active. The population of STW aside, I doubt most old people in the UK see anyone not directly related to their care more than once a week. They're isolated by life already.
Those two scientist blokes either side of Boris seemed pretty convincing. What makes you think our science isn’t better than some others and we are on the right track?
Also, other countries have 'scientist blokes' too. I bet they are 'convincing' as well. Yet the majority of other countries are doing things markedly differently to us.
Expect scrutiny if you are an outlier on something as significant and immediate as this.
As a United fan, you are best placed to advise on how to get through months of tedium and disappointment.
Indeed. We'd actually managed to hit a bit of form of late though Martin. It had become almost entertaining
On the plus side, its extended the scousers 30 year wait...
#everycloud 😂
I think the burden of proof goes to prove Boris isn't lying. The null hypothesis is that anything he says is based on lying self-interest and not on helping others.
In other news, looks like my girlfriend's shop is going to the wall. Small clothing boutique. No customers, no cash reserves. Laying off 1 of their 4 staff today and if no grant relief by the end of the month they'll have to shut down due to cashflow.
They’re isolated by life already.
Except from visitors to their care homes. The experience from Washington State shows exactly how a single infection in a care home can create a massive burden on health services within days.
Plus, a glance around the main car park in my town will reveal that the buggers, even the half-dead ones, are still very much out and about.
If ever there was an obvious explanation as to the government’s response to this differs to other countries, I think that we should consider this chart;
Without commenting on the rights or wrongs of the decision, it appears to simply be an ideologically driven, economics over humanity based strategy. The people that make up engine of the economy won’t die (much), and the demographic that is disproportionately affected will be net recipients from the economy and welfare state rather than contributors.
It’s clearly in line with hardline Tory ideology. I apologise profusely for ‘politicising’ the thread, but I feel that it must be stated.
I think I’m probably going nuts, but does anyone on here know a single person who has contracted this virus? Or even know anyone who knows anyone??
the only evidence I’ve seen of it are empty shelves in shops caused by press over-reaction.
Everything else is just hearsay. People seem to have gone * hysterical. And yet..?
Whilst the virus is obviously out there and a threat I have to agree with that, I think it's just been hyped out of all proportion, it doesn't help that a lot of the general public are just brain dead sheep hence going all zombie apocalypse and panic buying everything.
I think it's probably been around for longer than we think, I know a lot of fit and healthy people that had "flu" back in December that hit them hard for weeks. Wasn't there something like a 25% increase over the previous year?
Much as I think Boris is a massive * I think the government has got it right by trying to delay things rather than going full shutdown of everything. I reckon the schools will close on Friday into the Easter holidays 😉 in the hope keeping all the little disease spreaders away from each other slows it down a bit.
Not good news ygh, they won't be the last and I get the very depressing feeling they won't even be in the minority in 6 months time.
My point is that at the moment trust in the government is key
why would anyone trust someone who has such a public history of lying?
I don't trust Boris an inch, for all the reasons quoted.
I am prepared to trust the medical and scientific advisors he has pinned his plan on, rather than what uninformed individuals on the internet think will protect them. They seem to think that this is the least worst option for the wider population right now. Which is all we can hope for.
The political conspiracy theorists are really spoiling what has been an interesting thread up till recently
There is no parallel to draw between someone lying about an affair and crafting a conspiracy to kill us all for some undefined purpose.
Which would be an excellent point except for the teensy weensy fact that kimbers didn't do that.
Better luck next time with the strawmannery, but you really need to craft it better over a longer period, to make it seem like it was there all along.
Have a look at Vote Leave if you want to see it done properly.
Couple of blokes at work have had texts off their Teacher wives - schools preparing to shut down from next Friday.
Whilst the virus is obviously out there and a threat I have to agree with that, I think it’s just been hyped out of all proportion,
When folk like Richard Hatchett start describing it as the most frightening disease he's ever come across, I'm not sure that's artificial hype.
Would be an epic bit of 'nudge' if part of the strategy at the moment was getting better responsiveness from the public to self isolate/take extra precautions as a contrary response to the government not telling them to!
either:
Gov: please lock yourselves away and don't talk to anyone except on your disinfected phone
Public: no way! massive over-reaction, it's just flu!
Or:
Gov: don't do anything just yet
Public: you can't tell me what to do! I'm locking myself away right now!
I think it’s probably been around for longer than we think, I know a lot of fit and healthy people that had “flu” back in December that hit them hard for weeks. Wasn’t there something like a 25% increase over the previous year?
@tomd
please point out what is untrue in my post, objective or not?
trust a government who ignored all warnings & pushed through austerity
This government hasn't pushed through austerity. It seems to be attempting the opposite.
Couple of blokes at work have had texts off their Teacher wives – schools preparing to shut down from next Friday
I call BS on that, next Friday is the start of Easter hols and every teacher has been prepping for that since 6th of January
9 minutes in.... "The children cried"
FFS. Did they, really? Because of their confirmation?
The political conspiracy theorists are really spoiling what has been an interesting thread up till recently
Im always one to prefer cock-up over conspiracy, (as Grayling isnt in charge of the covid response) in the Tory case most likely callousness over conspiracy
I think its simply that with the NHS & social care stretched so far by a decade of austerity (people were already dying in NHS corridors this year & its been a mild winter) that theres very little room for them to manouvre, very tough decisions being made now & will have to be made in hospitals regards who gets treatment
IMHO COBRA should have been convened earlier, when Johnson was making jokes about handwashing, NHS111 has been completely overwhelmed, which is why the containment phase seems to have ended so quickly, Id like to think that things are moving better now.
As long as Johnson is listening to scientists rather than his chief advisor
remember that Cummings has a history of misunderstanding & misusing science for his own agenda https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5095087/
I call BS on that, next Friday is the start of Easter hols and every teacher has been prepping for that since 6th of January
not scheduled to finish until the 27th in devon.
remember that Cummings has a history of misunderstanding & misusing science for his own agenda
I didn't realise he was one of our big hitters
If ever there was an obvious explanation as to the government’s response to this differs to other countries, I think that we should consider this chart;
Without commenting on the rights or wrongs of the decision, it appears to simply be an ideologically driven, economics over humanity based strategy. The people that make up engine of the economy won’t die (much), and the demographic that is disproportionately affected will be net recipients from the economy and welfare state rather than contributors.
It’s clearly in line with hardline Tory ideology. I apologise profusely for ‘politicising’ the thread, but I feel that it must be stated.
I highly doubt that a few less pensioners is worth the damage done to the economy already...
Sorry to hear your news yourguitarhero. We lost our business during the chaos that followed the banking crash. The thing that was striking then was the shear speed of it. One minute you've got a decent ongoing business, the economy slows, then stops, the next minute it's all imploded and you're dealing with the aftermath.
I think we're going to see a hell of a lot of it in the coming months, and having been there myself, I wouldn't wish it on anyone.
Good luck fella.
This government hasn’t pushed through austerity. It seems to be attempting the opposite.
Im sorry which of the current MPs (including the PM) voted against austerity during the last parliament?
yes its technically a different government but that doesnt change what theyve done in the past
https://www.theyworkforyou.com/mp/10999/boris_johnson/uxbridge_and_south_ruislip/votes#welfare
not scheduled to finish until the 27th in devon
My joke is bad enough without you spoiling it with facts
I call BS on that, next Friday is the start of Easter hols and every teacher has been prepping for that since 6th of January
Easter holidays here start on April 3.
EDIT: Get your coat!
Regarding people criticising the ‘politisation’ of the thread; get real. It is very obvious that there are a wide range of possible responses available to the Government, depending on what their objectives are. WHAT their objectives are is what is the political bit; the scientific advisors then assist the politicians on how to best achieve those aims. If you think Boris at al are simply trying to save the most lives then you are being naive; Boris will prioritise the economy over your retired parents and mine, all day long. In his world view it is very much a personal responsibility thing to protect these people. I can see the logic of this; the economy needs to be protected in order to move forward and recover effectively. It seems callous, but it’s economically sound decision making.
The armchair politicians from the political threads are here in force I see. I think the mods need to get a grip of this thread before it becomes the same group of people agreeing with themselves.
We are following similar procedures to many of our neighbours, we will be shutting down when the time is right just like France, Spain, Norway, Denmark, Italy, Germany etc (they are all further along the scale at this point)
Progressive shut down otherwise long term unsustainable/multiple shut downs
We are doing a good job, keep it up.
We are nowhere near the exponential rate of cases seen on the epidemic spike at the moment.
If you start measures now, it does nothing except start people’s annoyance early. If you wait until it really ramps up, then it has more of an effect and hopefully keeps the number of cases requiring critical care under the total number of critical care beds.
maybe, but the question is - how do we avoid being in the same situation as Italy, rather than, say, Japan ?
We lost our business during the chaos that followed the banking crash
What really worries my about this time round is the banking crash really was damage to that "big nebulous concept" of an economy that then had tangible consequences, this isn't, this is actually a real world problem first and foremost.
Im always one to prefer cock-up over conspiracy, (as Grayling isnt in charge of the covid response) in the Tory case most likely callousness over conspiracy
There's a lot to be said for that.
We dont know which route will work out best, that's a 3-4 month judgement at best. I'm in the all stop full stop camp but there are a lot of good points being made against that.
Over the years, based on random stuff you see than any great knowledge, I have wondered if the UK government takes the harder end approach to the greater good. If I was being less generous I might suggest catastrophic change is the modus operandi.
I'm not attributing this to any party just to the ethos of government. From the plan to test the atomic bomb on the Yorkshire Coast to more recently the idea of Liverpool being left to decline. They all seem hard edge approaches.
Not so much a conspiracy more an approach which might have different tolerances. That's more one for the people with a better grasp of foreign and domestic policy over the years.
@alpin - she said some chlidren cried when they heard that their "Confirmation" wasn't going ahead. It's a big deal to little Catholic kids. It's a bit like of a Bar/Bat Mitzvah
We are following similar procedures to many of our neighbours, we will be shutting down when the time is right just like France, Spain, Norway, Denmark, Italy, Germany etc (they are all further along the scale at this point)
Progressive shut down otherwise long term unsustainable/multiple shut downs
Not sure if thats correct
we are at similar rate of infection as Israel, greece, croatia, chzech, ireland & plenty of countries with less cases who have shutdown schools, mass gatherings etc well before us
Of course every country is different regards population density , age & health demographics etc
We are following similar procedures to many of our neighbours
No, we're really not. Jeremy Hunt, Rory Stewart, that shouty director of public health who now works for Bahrain are all saying we're not doing enough. And then we have the chief scientific advisor on telly and radio talking about the completely unproven and untested idea of herd immunity when the lives of millions are at stake. I don't think they are deliberately wanting to kill people, I just think they've given up or think doing something about it is just too much trouble. If our scientists think they know better than the rest of the world, then they should publish all the research and modelling for review so the rest of the world can learn from them. Are they doing that?
The political conspiracy theorists are really spoiling what has been an interesting thread up till recently
The political conspiracy theories are our there precisely because of the mixed messages coming out of Government and media.
It's getting blanket media coverage, there are "experts" popping up all over the place, the advice is wildly conflicting. Either 60% of us need to get it for herd immunity, we'll be fine, carry on or the opposite.
People are confused - they don't know whether to isolate for 7 or 14 days, they look at what's happening elsewhere through the prism of their particular media outlet, they're being told to WFH or just to be more careful and wash hands....
It's the perfect breeding ground for conspiracy theories, rumours, speculation and fake news. And that makes it more difficult following advice because no-one knows what is the correct official advice hence panic buying, businesses and people deciding what to do on an ad-hoc basis...
Kimbers. You want us to follow Croatia but not Germany, is there a good clear reason for that?
Some countries can still contain the virus but if worldwide containment isn't a real possibility anymore then it is still coming so prepare for long shutdowns or different delay tactics across the world
To be fair to Boris if he is following medical and science yogic advice then he is in the clear. If he is overruling them then that is another story and the chief medical officer should be saying so as he had a duty of care above and beyond politics. What is interesting is what the scientific advisors in other countries think of what we are doing. At this stage it is all down to stats. They know it will spread and they can’t control it so they are assuming everyone will get it, quite a lot will die, but if they can make sure the nhs is not overwhelmed then the death rate will be lower. One key thing also is in say Italy how much is the national daily death rate increased by? I bet not a lot. About 1300 people die everyday in the uk so you would have to have huge numbers dying of coronavirus to change the annual numbers. I think they are move bothered about effects on society and the economy than individual deaths.
Are they doing that?
Is any one?
Jeremy Hunt, Rory Stewart,
Neither of whom have anything to loose and a lot to gain by being the anti boris and neither has access to the advice he's being given.
the completely unproven and untested idea
It's all untried and untested. Hell there's STILL debate about Spanish flu.