Weighted by population, we are doing much worse than the USA
It's not over yet. Not by a long way
I don't know its a bit weird. I've just returned from our appointment at the Tip, my second drive in 3 months. Masked man stood miles away and shouted instructions after checking the number plate. All three cars entered at the same time as me were instructed to bays about 10m apart. The two supervisors where masked and with gloves and never approached more than 5m to ask if I knew what I was doing. Usually busy Retail car park was about half full.
On the flip side, I observed massive queues at the McD and KFC drive throughs, witnessed 2 x vehicles jump red lights, it feels as busy as a normal Sunday, and witnessed four men outside a Kebab shop in close proximity laughing smoking and spitting on the pavement, then heard on the Radio we've "only" 77 deaths today, and saw that our local Bacon roll cafe does deliveries now.
My own behavioural changes were to don garden gloves before existing the car at the tip, to leave those in the boot which I sprayed down with dettol spray before using Hand Sanitiser to clean my hands before re-entering our car and despite that washing my hands again as I got in doors after opening the back door with my elbow.
*shrugs* I don't know what to think of it all TBH.
My own behavioural changes were to don garden gloves before existing the car at the tip, to leave those in the boot which I sprayed down with dettol spray before using Hand Sanitiser to clean my hands before re-entering our car and despite that washing my hands again as I got in doors after opening the back door with my elbow.
Why?
All you touched was your rubbish, and your car?.
Our local recycling centre is business as usual, was there on Friday, everyone keeps 2m apart, only difference is staff were wearing masks. Queue wasn't any longer than usual, half a dozen cars.
Why
I’m asthmatic, my wife has lupus and my 7yo has hypoglycaemia. Apart from that, I don’t wish to spread it to anyone else should I have touched the skip/ railings that someone else has. I see it as being responsible. YMMV.
The people in Manchester City Center were outside and apart from the people they had gone with didn’t spend much time in the close proximity of others
You need to nip over to the binocular thread if you saw all that first hand with enough clarity to make such an authoritive statement all the way from France.
Perhaps you should check out some other threads too, trail-Rat. You seem to be bothered by where I'm from and regularly make an issue of it.
Every objective study I’ve seen recently points to the need for three condictions for a high risk of airborne transmission. Inside, more than 10 minutes in close proximity, no masks.
School, school, and school...
No I'm making no issue of the fact your from France I'm making issue of the fact you are saying what happened in Manchester as if it's a fact your have seen with your eyes.
Sorry your not special because you live in France sorry. My folks live there too - as do.many other people it's common as ****.
I was at the protest in Manchester yesterday and can confirm though it was very busy, it was pretty much as Edukator describes it. His binoculars must be really good.
His binoculars must be really good.
He passed through on his horse whilst on his way to check on his rental properties. After which he diverted to Bristol to assist in pulling down the statute (he's actually out of picture and it was soley him and his horse that pulled the statue down)
He then rode him using his considerable experience to mentally find a cure for Coronavirus. All whilst setting a world record for the fastest man to swim the channel with a horse on his back (twice) he was actually faster the second time as he grows stronger as the day goes on
He doesn't like to talk about it though
His eyesite was a bit off so he drove to Manchester to be safe. Totally plausible, obvs.
Any way bit of good news....
New Zealand’s government will lift all Covid-19 restrictions except stringent border controls almost immediately, prime minister Jacinda Ardern has said, as the nation’s health officials declared that there were no longer any known, active cases of the coronavirus remaining.
#GetCovidDoneRight
is the 14 day quarantine thing enforceable?
is the 14 day quarantine thing enforceable?
Lots of moaning from the airlines, travel companies suggesting we shouldn’t have a quarantine as our infection rates are much higher than the rest of Europe. In reality it doesn’t matter if the countries they are flying to have no infection, it’s the being crammed into a plane for 3-4 hours with 200 people that’s the problem. If we go back to thousands of flights a day surely this will cause another spike. It would be better if the government just turned around and said no foreign holidays this year.
It would be better if the government just turned around and said no foreign holidays this year.
That would destroy all the holiday companies and airlines as they'd have to foot the bill.
I'm just thinking if it is not enforceable, people will go on holiday and then just go straight back to work / meeting friends / going to the pub anyway.
Assuming all european countries actually allow travellers from the UK without their own entry quarantine. UK travellers are far more likely to add to the EU countries infections as opposed to the opposite.
The gov really have ballsed this up good and proper from start to finish, haven't they?
I’m just thinking if it is not enforceable, people will go on holiday and then just go straight back to work / meeting friends / going to the pub anyway.
There will be some that will, yes. This fact makes me sad.
The gov really have ballsed this up good and proper from start to finish, haven’t they?
100%
I had little faith in them to start with but I'm amazed just how bad a job they have done. We had a massive head start, firstly with timing but also being an island and having a pretty decent health service. How has it been so much worse than pretty much everywhere else?
That would destroy all the holiday companies and airlines as they’d have to foot the bill.
Maybe, but I think it’s better to maintain the lockdown and get ourselves Covid free like New Zealand, surely this is a much better position overall for the economy, jobs, business and public health.
I hate to say this, but we really need to see an increase in deaths. Perception is that the pandemic has passed. Folk aren't really absorbing the fact that it's the current restrictions that are keeping the fatalities down. Hence the calls for holidays etc.
I posted it on the previous page but it will be a criminal offence to break quarantine
https://twitter.com/TomRHickman/status/1269197956168720389?s=19
Click through
travel companies suggesting we shouldn’t have a quarantine as our infection rates are much higher than the rest of Europe.
It's just exporting our mixing. Dispatch people from throughout the UK to one melting pot add alcohol and a misconception people are safe as the risk of infection abroad is lower. It's just going to be the ski resort problem all over again. I'm not feeling overly positive about the UK's path out of this.
Maybe, but I think it’s better to maintain the lockdown and get ourselves Covid free like New Zealand, surely this is a much better position overall for the economy, jobs, business and public health.
Sorry yes I 100% agree, I was suggesting why our Tory overloads wont do it, it unclearly though in retrospect!
I had little faith in them to start with but I’m amazed just how bad a job they have done. We had a massive head start, firstly with timing but also being an island and having a pretty decent health service. How has it been so much worse than pretty much everywhere else?
In the beginning, the instinct of the government was purely economic, despite what they were seeing elsewhere. Hence not locking down and the utter insanity of large events going ahead.
They held on as long as possible before they were basically forced to shut down the economy.
Their instinct now is again purely economic in easing the lockdown far too early.
Financial considerations have trumped humanitarian ones at every turn
The irony of all that is that while all this is going on, they're ploughing on with the Brexit project that will cause untold damage to the economy.
The irony is that their approach, both going into and coming out of a very weak ‘lock down’, will cost the UK economy far more than getting a grip on the virus early on and leaving lockdown earlier with full track/trace/isolate actually in place. When will we able to download a working trace app do you think?
When will we able to download a working trace app do you think?
I'm going to go with never.
When will we able to download a working trace app do you think?
1st January 2021
A workable track'n'trace app will only be available when johnson and his crew drop the nhsx one in favour of the apple/google app.
When will we able to download a working trace app do you think?
Tracking and tracing will always me a manual exercise. It is foolish to think otherwise. When Apple/Google API is adopted, we may have something. Once that starts decimating the London transport system...
I'm more or less lost for words at the behaviour of the government and large parts of the gneral public.
How long before we see an upswing in cases? Various anecdotes of increased admissions so I guess by mid-week tests will be coming in?
Went for a walk past one of our local beaches yesterday and it was heaving with no social distancing. One posh seafront eatery had opened for takeaways, including full meals and were allowing people to use their patio; so you had a crowded patio of people dressed up clearly to go for food/drink not jsut a quick snack off the beach. The only difference between normal operating was no tables, plastic cups and foam food containers. Didn't even feel comfortable walking the coast path as there was no effort from anyone else to step aside/veer course to try and maintain seperation. Left me feeling utterly despondent.
The big problem I see is if they try and lock down again more people will ignore it a second time.
I hate to say this, but we really need to see an increase in deaths. Perception is that the pandemic has passed. Folk aren’t really absorbing the fact that it’s the current restrictions that are keeping the fatalities down. Hence the calls for holidays etc.
Sadly I agree, otherwise we risk having years of stumbling along with high Covid death rates for a long time.
The irony is that their approach, both going into and coming out of a very weak ‘lock down’, will cost the UK economy far more than getting a grip on the virus early on and leaving lockdown earlier with full track/trace/isolate actually in place.
That's the big picture, they don't do that kind of thinking. It's been said loads of times before but if we'd acted decisively at the beginning it's quite possible we could be ahead of mainland Europe in terms of restoring normal life by now. We'll have more financial pain to deal with as travel to other countries that are virtually Covid-free would stop us travelling there, wave goodbye to foreign holidays for a while.
How long before we see an upswing in cases? Various anecdotes of increased admissions so I guess by mid-week tests will be coming in?
I've got friends in the NHS in South Wales and Cornwall, all are reporting increases in admissions in the last week. Add in the delays and I'd guess at an upswing showing in the numbers towards the end of the week, deaths a week or so behind that. That gives enough time for any increased transmission to take hold and start to really get going. I hope I'm wrong and it will just be a small blip but I doubt it.
The big problem I see is if they try and lock down again more people will ignore it a second time.
Every country gets precisely one go at lockdown.
Which is why every other nation will be looking at our successes and wondering why they don't have a Prime Minister or President with Good Old Man Of The People Boris' track record on coronavirus.
That would destroy all the holiday companies and airlines as they’d have to foot the bill.
Perhaps they should have hung on to some cash rather than spunking dividends and bonuses, then?
Tired… while we all know that a trace app is an additional tool on top of the real work of the manual tracing… we have NEITHER in place… and government ministers told us the trace app was essential… will they swap to using the Apple/Google API to give us this essential (their word) tool anytime before September? Asking for students of all ages…
What on earth are you talking about, we have a world beating track and trace system, have done since 8 days ago, King Boris said so himself.
There are no US tanks in Baghdad.
I’m more or less lost for words at the behaviour of the government and large parts of the gneral public.
How long before we see an upswing in cases? Various anecdotes of increased admissions so I guess by mid-week tests will be coming in?
Went for a walk past one of our local beaches yesterday and it was heaving with no social distancing. One posh seafront eatery had opened for takeaways, including full meals and were allowing people to use their patio; so you had a crowded patio of people dressed up clearly to go for food/drink not jsut a quick snack off the beach. The only difference between normal operating was no tables, plastic cups and foam food containers. Didn’t even feel comfortable walking the coast path as there was no effort from anyone else to step aside/veer course to try and maintain seperation. Left me feeling utterly despondent.
The big problem I see is if they try and lock down again more people will ignore it a second time.
Doesn't seem to be the case around Swansea area. Since VE day people been saying there'll be an upswing of cases but hasn't materialised. There's hardly any new cases now in the Swansea bay health board area. Been low single figures for new cases for the lastweek or two.
@roach - I'm also based in Swansea. Glad to hear no new cases. The crowds of people drinking around the langland bras., on the steps to the beach and on their patio was unbelieveable yesterday arvo (or maybe we've jsut go so used to not seeing anyone it seemed busy). Still I guess outside with a sea breeze helps mitigate things.
I read this over the weekend which I found pretty infuriating. I'm not really stating an opinion either way on the quarantine, I just find Simon Calder's argument pretty poor. I stand to be correct but surely even if the prevelance of the virus is lower abroad by travelling that far you're exposing yourself to lots more people (from both the UK and abroad) so you're chance of being infected/infecting others goes up. I can't tell if Simon is being partisan, he's got a very vested interest in travel or is just very bad at science/maths.
The number of infections – and, tragically, the consequent deaths – will be higher than had quarantine not been introduced.
That is because quarantine has the immediate effect of deterring British holidaymakers from going abroad this summer.
By causing the cancellation of holidays for millions of prospective UK travellers, the quarantine policy will eliminate an effective way to cut the infection rate: reduce the number of candidates for infection.
The more people in the UK, the more potential victims. Therefore the government should encourage as many healthy British citizens as possible to travel, safely and respectfully, to countries where infection rates are lower – which includes almost every nation on earth.
Instead, the government is choosing to do the opposite. Keeping people in the UK when they want to be elsewhere will increase the number of Covid-19 cases.
Zero recorded deaths in Scotland 2 days in a row now, yes, both weekend days so will potentially be higher, but still taking this as good news.
@roach – I’m also based in Swansea. Glad to hear no new cases. The crowds of people drinking around the langland bras., on the steps to the beach and on their patio was unbelieveable yesterday arvo (or maybe we’ve jsut go so used to not seeing anyone it seemed busy). Still I guess outside with a sea breeze helps mitigate things.
I called down there for a nose on my ride yesterday actually 🙂
Pint would've been nice!
Just been in contact with a relative who is a trainee doctor in Manchester.
She’s been in a meeting and it was declared the R value in Manchester is around 1.6 which isn’t looking good.
Simon Calder’s argument pretty poor.
Well, to be fair, if all 66 million inhabitants had been in any one of the EU27 for the past three months we'd be better off right now.
She’s been in a meeting and it was declared the R value in Manchester is around 1.6 which isn’t looking good.
It was still at 1.1 when Andy Burnham here, and the Liverpool mayor were both saying that it was too early to ease the lockdown in the northwest as the infection rate was still too high and that the decision was being taken purely as it was below 1 in London.
Looks like they were right. Its on the up again. You've got hotspots in places like Blackburn which are still getting loads of infections. And of course, 15,000 people in Manchester City Centre won't exactly have helped matters
To try and lock down again, especially on just a regional basis, will be virtually impossible
New case rate now seems to match Italy's rate from a month ago, Spain's with from three weeks ago.
Used to be a two week lag.
Anyone heard or seen Whitty lately?