My son's T1, but because he is 19, thinks he is invincible. If he get's ill, it will be us monitoring blood sugars very regularly as illness it quite tricky with T1, you never know if it's going to be a high or a low. Low being quite deadly quickly, high being very damaging if not back down. He's not very good with basic hygeine as it is.
Fortunately he, and us could work from home. I'm not concerned for me, but more the fact that if care workers are ill, MIL is in a nursing home, and she's unlikely to survive even the flu - all of us with any illness kept well clear of her before Christmas (stayed outside her room - so at least we could say hello). Not sure how my folks would cope, both 70's, mum ex smoker, which isn't great.
Same boat here. I mean to say, it's family members I'm worried about. I'm well enough and not that old. My son and his partner having a baby this weekend coming, being induced. That said, they are young and child motility seems very low.
However I care for my 90 year old mother and I'm very concerned about her.
I'm still not convinced the message is pitched right - carry on as normal means different things to different people. Although the you will experience minor disruption and will have to live with more diligence and thought isnt a snappy message. Maybe be kind wash your hands.
PM's take on things was classic - my fake news take is they have been schooling him all weekend in how to get the right message out (In a Baby Groot / Guardians of the Galaxy way). That's why they had to wait until Tuesday to release the official line.
We've got a small bottle of alcohol hand gel off to the side near the main entrance at work - this is a massive academic building, and I only saw it as I left work and looked for it as a circular said we had got 'stations' for it. A small table with a little bottle and a tiny sign isn't obvious... Oh well.
Thinking oh well 80% of people will be ok isnt really a good starting point. There's 20% who aren't and it's about trying to protect those who are at greater risk.
I'm just pro things being more in your face - changes to people's world that hit home the you need to be doing some different things now.
I guess there must be models for incident response that show what happens right and wrong at any particular stage. Be interesting to see if we are learning and doing things right of we are in some classic underplaying stage - the yes we have a problem but we haven't got a handle yet / the guidance has yet to catch up. It feels a bit like the carpet and chemical stage of foot and mouth biosecurity - doing something but it wasn't the right thing. For those going what the fxxx you on about - the protection was put out an old strip of carpet across the farm gate and drench it in a chemical. The chemical washed off, the strips didn't cover on full rotation of the wheel... Took a while to get to the wheel baths and pressure washer stage of biosecurity, which was when it started to dent transmission.
The attitude of presenteeism in the work place is slightly concerning.
Loads of people with 'colds' at the moment.
I'm fairly sure I could survive but my nans 95, so I'm not visiting her for a while just incase.
I think there's no question this will be a serious issue in the UK for the most vulnerable considering a lot of people think themselves heroes for not taking a few sick days.
WHO are saying it's less contagious than normal flu (albeit far more lethal)
If that's the case then why are we hearing 80% of population will get it, with 20% of workforce off sick. Flu doesn't impact anywhere near those numbers every year does it? Appreciate old foks are encouraged to get the flu vaccine, but I've never had it and never (touch wood) contracted flu in 43 years.
Lots of conflicting info..
Lots of blind panicking and media spin.
Have you not read the daily mail recently?
Truth is we don't really know as we can't trust news sources too much.
And our clown of a PM only issues the odd sound byte.
If that’s the case then why are we hearing 80% of population will get it, with 20% of workforce off sick.
Flu is already endemic. Ok so it changes each year, but only a bit so we all have some immunity to the new strain, and probably to existing strains. Covid-19 is new so no-one has had it already, so we could all get it within the space of a few months.
WHO are saying it’s less contagious than normal flu (albeit far more lethal)
If that’s the case then why are we hearing 80% of population will get it, with 20% of workforce off sick. Flu doesn’t impact anywhere near those numbers every year does it? Appreciate old foks are encouraged to get the flu vaccine, but I’ve never had it and never (touch wood) contracted flu in 43 years.
Lots of conflicting info..
Flu has a rapid onset, flu is most contagious after onset around 3 or 4 days after symptoms is it’s peak, full blown flu you ain’t leaving your bed Let alone your house, the flu vaccine is given to the vulnerable, health workers and many others.
Covid 19 is a gradual onset, it’s contagious pretty much straight away long before symptoms start and for at least 2 weeks if not longer, there is no vaccine to bring in herd immunity.
I’m 47 I’ve had flu and it wrecked me I was 24 at the time and very fit, I spent a month in the house the only contact was my Mrs who followed infection controls so she didn’t spread it.
Truth is we don’t really know as we can’t trust news sources too much.
Luckily we have PHE and the NHS.
Not concerned of the virus here, though wife and I, like many of the regulars on here are in the category which really starts to have ‘not so good odds’. It’s more the impact it will have on companies, especially small ones and the self employed, so much is marginal these days.
Hope it’s not as bit as the flu a couple of years ago, that almost wrote me off, metaphorically and medically. Heard one person saying for most people, not that bad at all.
The attitude of presenteeism in the work place is slightly concerning.
Depends on the workplace - if you're somewhere that will discuss your attendance if you take a day off then it deters being off. There's employment law and then there's real life - the two don't always overlap and there's nothing like loosing a job to make it difficult to get a job. So it's not always heroism it can be fear.
tpbiker
Member
WHO are saying it’s less contagious than normal flu (albeit far more lethal)
Are they ?? Most of the stuff I've read puts the coronavirus R0 at about 2-3, while for 'flu it's usually under 1.5
Granted, nobody knows the true nature or numbers of the initial Chinese outbreak but I don't think anyone can yet say it's less contagious - and looking at, say, Italy, something interesting is happening. What our societal behaviour does to modify that R0 is what matters.
Just seen this - numbers from the US that might help modify the estimates of R0:
Among the first 10 patients with travel-related confirmed COVID-19 reported in the United States, a total of 445 persons (range = 1–201 persons per case) who had close contact with one of the 10 patients on or after the date of the patient’s symptom onset were identified. Nineteen (4%) of the 445 contacts were members of a patient’s household, and five of these 19 contacts continued to have household exposure to the patient with confirmed COVID-19 during the patient’s isolation period; 104 (23%) were community members who spent at least 10 minutes within 6 feet of a patient with confirmed disease; 100 (22%) were community members who were exposed** to a patient in a health care setting; and 222 (50%) were health care personnel.††
Active symptom monitoring of the 445 close contacts, consisting of daily telephone, text, or in-person inquiries about fever or other symptoms for 14 days following the last known exposure to a person with confirmed COVID-19, was conducted by local health jurisdictions. During the 14 days of active symptom monitoring, 54 (12%) close contacts developed new or worsening symptoms deemed by local public health authorities to be concerning for COVID-19 and were thus considered persons under investigation (PUIs)§§ and subsequently were tested for SARS-CoV-2. Two persons who were household members of patients with confirmed COVID-19 tested positive for SARS-CoV-2. This yielded a symptomatic secondary attack rate of 0.45% (95% confidence interval [CI] = 0.12%–1.6%) among all close contacts,¶¶ and a symptomatic secondary attack rate of 10.5% (95% CI = 2.9%–31.4%) among household members. Both persons with confirmed secondary transmission had close contact with the respective source patient before COVID-19 was confirmed and were isolated from the source patient after the patient’s COVID-19 diagnosis.
No other close contacts who were tested for SARS-CoV-2 had a positive test, including the five household members who were continuously exposed during the period of isolation of their household member with confirmed COVID-19. An additional 146 persons exposed to the two patients with secondary COVID-19 transmission underwent 14 days of active monitoring. Among these, 18 (12%) developed symptoms compatible with COVID-19 and were considered PUIs. All tested negative, and no further symptomatic COVID-19 cases (representing tertiary transmission) have been identified.
(shame they only tested symptomatic contacts)
Picked this up from the worldometer site - https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/
Interesting remarks about asymptomatic transmission and death rates
Bruce Aylward, World Health Organization Joint Mission to China:
"I think the key learning from China is speed — it’s all about the speed. The faster you can find the cases, isolate the cases, and track their close contacts, the more successful you’re going to be. [...]
People keep saying [the cases are the] tip of the iceberg. But we couldn’t find that. We found there’s a lot of people who are cases, a lot of close contacts — but not a lot of asymptomatic circulation of this virus in the bigger population. And that’s different from flu. [...]
China got patients in treatment early and have highly sophisticated health care treatment procedures. They are really good at keeping people alive with this disease. They have a survival rate (with a mortality rate of just under 1% outside of Hubei province) for this disease I would not extrapolate to the rest of the world. What you’ve seen in Italy and Iran is that a lot of people are dying.
Panic and hysteria are not appropriate. This is a disease that is in the cases and their close contacts. It’s not a hidden enemy lurking behind bushes. Get organized, get educated, and get working."
Source: Vox Interview
sorry, just testing
Got a conference in India tomorrow that I'm debating whether to swerve - 100 or so delegates so not a large meeting, but a good one that I was looking forward to. Reckon the program will be decimated by Westerners not showing up, but perhaps this is the sort of mingebag thinking that just adds to the problem?
The circus of international air travel does not appeal right now, I must admit. Anyone else cancelled work trips abroad?
Picked this up from the worldometer site – https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/
Interesting remarks about asymptomatic transmission and death rates
Bruce Aylward, World Health Organization Joint Mission to China:
“I think the key learning from China is speed — it’s all about the speed. The faster you can find the cases, isolate the cases, and track their close contacts, the more successful you’re going to be. […]
People keep saying [the cases are the] tip of the iceberg. But we couldn’t find that. We found there’s a lot of people who are cases, a lot of close contacts — but not a lot of asymptomatic circulation of this virus in the bigger population. And that’s different from flu. […]
This is odd considering what the yanks are saying....
https://www.livescience.com/how-deadly-is-coronavirus-covid-19.html
Genetic analysis of the virus circulating on the West Coast suggests that COVID-19 has been transmitting through the region for about six weeks. This community spread was not detected earlier for several reasons. First, about 81% of cases do not require hospitalization, according to data from the outbreak in China. People experiencing symptoms such as a mild fever, cough and congestion are unlikely to visit a doctor. Second, Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) protocol limited testing to only those with symptoms and a history of travel to an affected region. Finally, there is a lag between virus transmission and fatalities simply because it takes time for the most severe cases to kill. (A World Health Organization report from China found that it took three to six weeks for critical cases to be resolved, either when the patient died or recovered.)
In fact that WHO interview, proclaiming how great the Chinese health system is almost sounds like a propaganda piece.
And on that note...
https://foreignpolicy.com/2020/03/02/china-blames-united-states-coronavirus/
A Battle Against Epidemic: China Combating COVID-19 in 2020 compiles numerous state media accounts on the heroic leadership of President Xi Jinping, the vital role of the Communist Party, and the superiority of the Chinese system in fighting the virus. It has gotten rave reviews in Chinese media, not least because it was published by their ultimate boss—the Central Committee Publicity Department, formerly known as the Propaganda Department.
The Chinese audience won’t be the only lucky readers. The book will be translated into English, French, Spanish, Russian and Arabic, with more likely to follow. Authorities know the virus could irreparably damage China’s image in the world s eyes, but they also see an opportunity to push their own narrative of organization, success, and triumph. Part of that involves glossy propaganda texts, combined with more sophisticated, individually targeted efforts. Part of it is pushing a new set of conspiracy theories about the virus itself, aimed at the ultimate enemy: the United States.
SWMBO was due to fly to UAE next week for an event, which is now postponed.
I’m wondering if the London Marathon is going to be canned next month!
Anyone else cancelled work trips abroad?
I was supposed to go to Denmark, but all non-essential travel has been cancelled.
Anyone else cancelled work trips abroad?
All international travel at my place was banned 3 weeks ago with exceptions to be approved by the global COO. Probably not long before inter-office travel is also banned. I'm already working from home as much as possible and only going in for meetings. That's not a new thing though.
Interesting 24hrs in our household.
Mrs_oab has a primary immunodeficiency meaning she is susceptible to many illnesses, repeatedly.
A visit to the GP yesterday with chesty cough, headache and raised temperature was pretty much brushed off... Until she pulled up the email from her consultant the previous day suggesting she be off work as blood tests show she has an infection.
This morning she calls her employers 'sick line' there to call out the skivers. The call handler was suggesting that with chesty cough, headache, aches and pains, raised temperature that she would still be in work as she has antibiotics...
Now we are sure it's not C19, it's a (common to her) chest infection. Her consultants concur.
But it's interesting that health professionals are not yet seemingly reacting with caution when presented with headache, chesty cough, raised temperature...
This morning she calls her employers ‘sick line’ there to call out the skivers. The call handler was suggesting that with chesty cough, headache, aches and pains, raised temperature that she would still be in work as she has antibiotics…
FFS prescribed antibiotics but if you take time off you’re a skiver?
Does your missus need or want to work for people who treat her or assume she acts like a schoolchild?
It sounds like her consultant is willing to write a letter if she takes more than a week off, I say take the time off, get the letter from the consultant and tell them to do one.
Pricks.
But it’s interesting that health professionals are not yet seemingly reacting with caution when presented with headache, chesty cough, raised temperature…
If she mentioned difficulty breathing / shortness of breath it may have been a different matter.. i think this is they key symptom for C-19.
Its crazy that employers expect employees to go to work ill and quite possibly infect others.
The call handler was suggesting that with chesty cough, headache, aches and pains, raised temperature that she would still be in work as she has antibiotics…
That's a really shitty attitude.
Now I complete get that you understand your wife's health and you aren't overly concerned but why would an employer want a sick staff member at work.? Even if its just a normal winter malady why would you want a sick employee spreading it to other people?
I was more than a little amused by the tories stating retired healthcare workers could cover the gaps in the NHS. Like that is going to happen! What are they going to do - conscript them? Most will have lapsed professional registration anyway! #Are they going to removed the need to have that registration? for most it will be impossible to re register
sorry, just testing
Testing what? That you can still post on here from home if you are forced to leave the office and work from home.:-)
Getting a tad worried now. My 77 year old mum is in Hospital (and has been for 6 weeks) awaiting urgent triple bypass surgery. Finally due to go for surgery today and hospital appears to be in lockdown after a suspected case came in, wandered around the hospital first (to M&S food and cafe according to nurse) then A&E. ‘Cancelled’ operation at this stage, she’s still nill by mouth though 🤷♀️. If that is the case, I do seriously wander how stupid some people are though. The handful of people I’ve seen not washing their hands in the HOSPITAL toilets in the last few weeks is also crazy.
That’s a really shitty attitude.
I completely agree - If this was my wife I'd be insisting she stay home, regardless of c19. The employer can go f...
Loads of places have this attitude towards sickness, generally horrible. But come on! It's plastered over every TV, sm platform, every discussion I hear around the office! It is a really really stupid idea to force someone matching the syptoms to come into the workplace!
But when they understandably refuse/are prevented by the law from covering, it'll give the tories some things to blame that aren't their incompetence/intentional running down of the NHS/scaring useful immigrants away.
Anyone got any links to cut-price luxury holidays please? Got a week off in March....
I was more than a little amused by the tories stating retired healthcare workers could cover the gaps in the NHS. Like that is going to happen! What are they going to do – conscript them?
Sop for pensioners. Remember, a significant portion of the Tory old vote still turn the telly on to BBC2 Saturday early evening and still watch the same old episodes of Dad's Army on a regular basis.
Jolly old Blitz Spirit will have this thing knocked on the head in no time, Mr Mainwaring.
Me I am a selfish git. If it hits Edinburgh badly I am going to quit. No way am I going to be sent to work in acute wards ( my ward is being run down for a change of use) where I do not have the skills in a chaotic situation.
Do all 53 confirmed cases still have the virus or have some recovered?
I seem to remember the so called "super carrier" leaving hospital but don't recall hearing anything about the Yorkshire student (Britain's patient X) and his mother.
Do all 53 confirmed cases still have the virus or have some recovered?
According to the John Hopkins tracker, only 8 of the 51 confirmed have recovered. Doesn't state who or where the 8 are from.
sorry, just testing
Testing what? That you can still post on here from home if you are forced to leave the office and work from home.:-)
that I can get a signal out from the tiny porthole in my tinfoil tent
TRUMP has solved it. Just use existing flu vaccinations.
https://www.indy100.com/article/coronavirus-trump-vaccine-flu-us-symptoms-9372566
No one knows more about flu and vaccines than he does. Bigly.
According to the John Hopkins tracker, only 8 of the 51 confirmed have recovered. Doesn’t state who or where the 8 are from.
Those 8 were announced when there were only 9 cases in the UK, so all/most from the supercarrier outbreak.
@raybanwomble - agree that there's contradictory info out there which is why I thought those comments were noteworthy. It's also against the earlier post about wuhan cases potentially being worse because of prior exposure to sars. I think it'll be a bit longer before there's a better understanding.
In other news I have a team member who's been in Nepal since early Feb, due back next week. They've just posted to say they have a bad cough and mild flu symptoms. I've told them not to come in until they've been told they can by someone official - nepals apparently clear at the moment but with the greatest respect to the Nepalese I'm not sure their health system will be doing a great job in the areas where they were.
But it’s interesting that health professionals are not yet seemingly reacting with caution when presented with headache, chesty cough, raised temperature…
We see these everyday so without a travel or contact history plus a patient with a history of these symptoms before there is no need.
oh goody. text from my mum: my daughter has been rushed to hospital this morning with a temperature, blue lips and breathing difficulties. They've told her to bugger off home as she may have corona virus. she's 21 months old.
I'm stuck in tromso until Friday, curently awaiting further news from home. frikkin wonderful.
The Daily Bail is going full on 28 Days Later with this story.
Apparently we'll be stopped from going to the pub and eating out.
I'm gonna get myself a fancy dress astronaut suit so I can go to Nando's
with no risk to myself and others.
If we talking about survival rates contra mortality; I'd be worried.
Hope she gets sorted Hot_Fiat that’s shit news.
The main job the Daily Heil seems to have is winding up gammmons who seem to enjoy being wound up so much they continue to buy the paper that winds them up in the first place. As usual, best not to pay attention.
And fingers crossed hot_fiat
make your own hand sanitizer
100 ml glass spray bottle
60ml witch hazel (sold in Tesco pharmacy for around £2 per bottle)
15 drops lemongrass essential oil (Ebay)
15 drops lavender essential oil (Ebay)
1 teaspoon vitamin E oil (optional (Ebay)
40 ml cooled boiled water
If using vitamin E oil then add first to bottle before adding essential oils. Next add witch hazel and cooled boiled water.
Before using shake bottle well. Spray then rub hands together until dry.
Cheaper version;
spray bottle
meths
