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Its taken from the track and trace questions that you are asked to fill in when you get a positive test.
Have you been shopping in the last week, most people would say yes.
That was my point exactly. By the same standard, wearing a wris****ch causes Covid.
Household transmission is another one, most people live in houses and if they do are highly likely to be near other people in the house.
Yes, you only have to look at the new cases in Melboure after they had a very strict lockdown to see what impact household transmission has. They sent my uncle home from hospital in Wiltshire with it (while symptomatic, without having been tested FFS), he was back in hospital within 24 hours (later died) but those few hours at home with my Aunt were enough to pass it on to her (she has since recovered).
majority of people in schools are young and so likely to be asymptomatic but could take it home and spread it
That has not been our experience in Australia. Schools in NSW have stayed open throughout the first and second waves, but there have been no clusters associated with schools. There have been a few cases (I think 33 cases from 30 schools - of 7,000ish in the whole state), but none of them developed into clusters. My understanding is that there are relatively mild social distancing measures in place at schools here - people are not wearing masks in lessons etc, but inter-scool sports events are not happening.
duplicate post
majority of people in schools are young and so likely to be asymptomatic but could take it home and spread it
That has not been our experience in Australia
How do you know, do you have random testing?
They sent my uncle home from hospital in Wiltshire with it (while symptomatic, without having been tested FFS), he was back in hospital within 24 hours (later died) but those few hours at home with my Aunt were enough to pass it on to her (she has since recovered).
****ing hell.
How do you know, do you have random testing?
No, we have a track and trace system that actually works: we know where people caught their coronavirus from..... and there haven't been clusters associated with schools.
Where there have been cases at schools, I think there is a pretty robust testing response to identify any other kids who might have it.
It's technically possible that kids are getting it and spreading it at schools undetected...... but if that's happening, no adults are getting it as a result.
**** hell.
Yes, I was ****ing livid.
its quite possible that the virus had fallen to below detectable levels after 2 days
Aye, this was my take on it, in some caases the testing window seems to be quite small. St Mirren FC had 7 positives on a monday, and 6 of them were negative on the tuesday, I don't believe that to be a labeling error or test errors.
The sports media kept referring to it as a false positive, which it probably wasn't, this confuses people further.
in some caases the testing window seems to be quite small. St Mirren FC had 7 positives on a monday, and 6 of them were negative on the tuesday, I don’t believe that to be a labeling error or test errors.
Not necessarily a small testing window...... they might just been at the end of it, depends when symptoms first started/when they were first exposed. They might just have waited a week before getting a test.
They might just have waited a week before getting a test.
Evidence from this house suggests that the symptoms that spark a test happen a while after you first get "ill"
Not necessarily a small testing window…… they might just been at the end of it, depends when symptoms first started/when they were first exposed. They might just have waited a week before getting a test.
Agreed, but in the grand scheme of things, a week is a small window. In reality, because of the bubble football exists in, tests would have been carried out fairly quickly.
Just browsing bbc news, this struck me:
What are the symptoms?
New and continuous cough - coughing a lot for more than an hour, or having three or more coughing episodes in 24 hours
Fever - a temperature above 37.8C
Change in smell or taste - either you cannot taste or smell anything, or these senses are different to normal.
Public Health England says about 85% of people with Covid will have at least one.
If you are only tested if you have one of these, or are going into a hospital its not entirely surprising is it that the biggest criteria for getting a test predict positive tests
It doesn't take a rocket scientist to work out that if you kick everyone out of all the pubs and restaurants at exactly the same time that it'll get lively on the streets. And guess what, that's what's happened.
It doesn’t take a rocket scientist
Yes....it plays directly to them being able to change the narrative from: "the government have really botched this up, resulting in an enormous second wave over winter" to "well.... people just weren't following our clear instructions, that's why Christmas is cancelled - you've only got yourself to blame"
Yes….it plays directly to them being able to change the narrative from: “the government have really botched this up, resulting in an enormous second wave over winter” to “well…. people just weren’t following our clear instructions, that’s why Christmas is cancelled – you’ve only got yourself to blame”
Tories passing the buck surly not.... /sarcasm
Can these pics be filed under the same as the long lens beach shots? Prestwick, where I live, has developed in the last few years as a drinking and eating town, ever since the 10pm curfew was announced, pub numbers are way down.
I'd imagine a lot of the rest of the country is the same, city centres a bit of an outlier.
Surprised that no-one has picked up on this example of rank hypocrisy...
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/parliament-s-bars-exempt-from-10pm-coronavirus-curfew-wb6g6bbgp
Now a U-turn...parliamentary bars will not serve alcohol after 10pm.
people just weren’t following our clear instructions
I'd wager that a good proportion of the people in that crowd know exactly what they should be doing, but they either DGAF or are wilfully ignoring the guidance. How do you propose we fix that? Better communication about what the consequences of such actions might help but they need to be delivered by someone other than a grey man in a grey suit.
Dear Parents,
Some of you may now be aware that we have had our first confirmed case of COVID-19 at <###>. This is a student in Year 12 and we received confirmation of the positive result this morning. I just wanted to write and explain the process we have gone through this morning and give further details to stop the rumour mill going into overdrive.
This is an isolated case in the Sixth Form, and thankfully, because of the measures taken by the
student and parents, it means we do not need to send anyone else from the community home to
self-isolate.
The student has not been in school since last Monday and only started to show
COVID-19 symptoms last Friday. The guidance we have received from Public Health England is
that individuals only need to self-isolate if they have been in close contact with anyone who tests positive within the 48 hours before they display symptoms. Therefore, this means nobody in the community beyond the student’s household is required to self-isolate at this time. The reason this has been contained effectively is due to the diligence of the student and family.
I guess they had a random cold then were off school and picked up COVID from home.
Better communication about what the consequences of such actions might help but they need to be delivered by someone other than a grey man in a grey suit.
The irony is that the whole anti-mask bullshit is being whipped up by the libertarian right, embodied by the grey men in grey suits on the Tory backbenches.
I'd tell them that its fine for them not to wear face-masks or adhere to social distancing regulations, as that is their inalienable, god-given right as free men.
Then, as they're all so confident of the absence of risk, I'd move the ****ing lot of them into the local hospital's Covid ward.
I’d wager that a good proportion of the people in that crowd know exactly what they should be doing, but they either DGAF or are wilfully ignoring the guidance. How do you propose we fix that?
Avoid the reason they're in the crowd in the first place by closing bars and restaurants?
I’d wager that a good proportion of the people in that crowd know exactly what they should be doing, but they either DGAF or are wilfully ignoring the guidance. How do you propose we fix that?
While I'm all for picking holes in the government's shocking handling of this crisis, and this clearly wasn't following the science or remotely thought through, the fact remains that a lot of people are deciding to act in ways that undermine the intention to limit the spread of the virus. So do we want pubs etc to be closed properly as a minority of customers are idiots, or are we going to magic up 100,000 extra Police to deal with the fallout and issue fines by the bucketful?
The government's handling of this has been shit throughout. So have the actions of some of the population. One doesn't mean the other shouldn't be held to account.
Avoid the reason they’re in the crowd in the first place by closing bars and restaurants?
Or don't kick everyone out of said bars and restaurants at the same time? Maybe a system whereby some places close at 10pm, some at 11pm, some at 12pm, etc? Then people will leave when they're ready and not all at one time. Maybe even let restaurants serve food to customers after the designated closing time, but not alcohol?
Then, as they’re all so confident of the absence of risk, I’d move the ****ing lot of them into the local hospital’s Covid ward.
Binners did you listen to the 5live gammon phone-in this morning? They had a couple of classic macho hardmen with cockney/essex accents ranting about how we need to get back to normal and live our lives. It's the 'come and have a go if you think you're hard enough' approach to surviving a pandemic. And sadly it's not a tiny minority who think this.
Daz - I did indeed hear it. They are always blokes, aren't they? I don't think I've seen or heard anyone female vocalising such utter bollocks
Depending on the age group its either the football hooligan types who think that you can beat the virus by glassing it, or the older Tory retired colonel types who seem to think you can shoot it with your service revolver.
The government’s handling of this has been shit throughout. So have the actions of some of the population. One doesn’t mean the other shouldn’t be held to account.
To be fair to the government, over the last week they have managed to finally foster a sense of national unity over something
Absolutely everyone in the country seems completely agreed that shutting all the pubs and restaurants at 10pm is a thunderingly ****ing stupid idea!
The government’s handling of this has been shit throughout. So have the actions of some of the population. One doesn’t mean the other shouldn’t be held to account.
The population are mostly just following the government advice... given this is so mixed-up, confused and sporadic they can just choose which version.
"Why aren't you wearing a mask"
"because the government said not to..."
"when"
"oh March I think?"
It's like the British weather.... don't like it,. don't worry wait an hour and it will be completely different.
I quite frankly can't be bothered trying to keep up. I assume its going to rain or snow either way.
I quite frankly can’t be bothered trying to keep up. I assume its going to rain or snow either way.
As someone who lives on the boundaries of Greater Manchester, while actually being in Lancashire, but with a Bolton postcode, it's a minefield.
So, the restrictions I am under can change god knows how many times while I'm just going about my usual daily business. During the course of the day I'm likely to be in three geographical areas, all right next to each other, but all with completely different levels of restrictions in place.
Its total ****ing madness! I've given up trying to work out which apply to me at any one time. Everyone else seems to have done so too.
I'm simply ignoring it all and adhering to the usual 'don't be a dick' rule
The governments handling of this whole thing has been a total shambles from day 1, and it appears to be getting progressively worse
So do we want pubs etc to be closed properly as a minority of customers are idiots,
If they're proving to be a significant vector of transmission, either directly or indirectly, then yes, it would be sensible to close them. As Batfink is saying, that does seem to be the case in Australia. And it's clear to see that restricted hours does not contain the root cause (probably exacerbates it) of hundreds of thousands of disinhibited people failing to SD.
As predicted, this is the political nature of the rule changes and mirrors the challenge that was had in March.
I guess they had a random cold then were off school and picked up COVID from home.
Or they picked up covid from somewhere, wouldnt have been school though, they are covid safe, it developed into what they thought was a cold, but given the situation they werent sure so did the right thing and stayed off school, after a few days some/a covid symptom developed. Meanwhile back at school other mates who he'd been down the pub with (or sat in lessons with, but schools are covid safe so I discounted this) are either asymptomatic or had such mild symptoms they just thought it was a cold and carried on with life.
wouldnt have been school though, they are covid safe,
Are you being sarcastic?
Are you being sarcastic?
Nope, not me, never, I was told schools were safe by Boris.
Everyone knows schools are Covid safe
As are pubs, but only before 10pm. They're bloody lethal by 10.02
Went to the Pub Saturday evening, it was pretty good. Masks on entry or bugger off. Pre-booked tables only, table service etc.
The problem was 'Dickheads'. There was a table of 7, 40+ blokes who loudly proclaimed they were "getting them in now before 10" and then fell about the place, trying to hug people, "forgetting" to wear masks to go to the Toilet etc. The Bar staff did what they could, but they weren't security, so they just took the piss out of them. One of them pretty much shoulder barged me out of the way as I left as he wanted my seat.
I read posts about how 10pm was a stupid idea because people will just got to the Shop and carry on drinking in the street, or all pile on top of each other in the street / bus / tube to get home etc like they people involved as the innocent victims in all this and it's better to just let them do as they wish because it might make them more likely to do the right thing.
I don't see how easy to understand / follow rules can mitigate for Drunk or Stupid or Drunk and Stupid people, seems we can't do anything right unless there is someone in Hi Vis to enforce it. I don't know what the answer is, but just letting people drink on until the early hours isn't it. I've spent long enough working in pubs to know you just can't rely on drinkers to do, well anything.
Pubs and Bars seem like an Pandemic luxury we can't afford at the moment.
As are pubs, but only before 10pm. They’re bloody lethal by 10.02
It's weird the way the protective effect of a payment card reader just stops at 22:00. It's almost like Cinderella's coach turning into a pumpkin at midnight. One of these is a fairy story.
binners
Meanwhile back at school other mates who he’d been down the pub with (or sat in lessons with, but schools are covid safe so I discounted this) are either asymptomatic or had such mild symptoms they just thought it was a cold and carried on with life.
Yep... madness.
It's only a matter a time until most of the populous decide to take the French approach which is to obey the rules/laws they agree with and forget all about the others
Went to the Pub Saturday evening, it was pretty good. Masks on entry or bugger off. Pre-booked tables only, table service etc.
I noticed this on Sunday when partner and I went for a roast. Is this now law or are people just being a bit more sensible? General vibe was mask warn anywhere but your seat so going to toilet means wearing a mask.
New "rules", yes... not sure about "law"... not sure any of the mask wearing rules are backed by law.
In England, you must wear a face covering in the following indoor settings (a list of examples for each is included in the brackets):
- premises providing hospitality (bars, pubs, restaurants, cafes), except when seated at a table to eat or drink (see exemptions)
Stagger closing times and the chaps and lassies will move on to one that's open.
Stagger closing times and the chaps and lassies will move on to one that’s open.
No solution is perfect.
Have to be honest, table service in pubs, limited numbers, social distancing and have to leave at 10pm is pretty much my ideal, middle aged pub experience.
Stagger closing times and the chaps and lassies will move on to one that’s open.
Yep... it would be the worst approach.
I don't think we should be limiting opening hours at all.
The change to table service and more mask wearing makes perfect sense though.
What is REALLY needed, is for each pub to have a maximum number of customers at a time, and stick to it... only that would make them close to "Covid Safe"... but it would also be obvious then that many pubs can't open safely and not run at a loss. Those pubs should be closed and the staff paid to stay home... but the government isn't up for that... yet.
Another teacher at mrs anagallis' school tests positive. Must have picked it up at home!!
Stagger closing times and the chaps and lassies will move on to one that’s open
Not if it's full, or if you don't allow entry after a certain time. And don't forget, this isn't just pubs, it's restaurants too.
Real world example. We went out for a meal at the weekend, 8pm table which is about the normal time we'd book. Normally that'll mean 90 mins to 2 hours on the meal and then a coffee or another glass of wine at the table to finish. Leave restaurant around 10:30pm/11pm which is before the pubs close and certainly before the bars close, so we can get a cab easily or get the train which'll be quiet.
This weekend was different.
8pm table (booked before the new rules came in), but as we knew we couldn't hang around after the meal we had a few drinks beforehand in a bar that's normally quiet early on and was instead busy (meaning no drop in volume consumed, and arguably a small increase and no less contact with others). Meal felt a touch rushed as we knew we had to be out at 10pm. Leave at 10pm with everyone else and the area is busy, there's a queue at the taxi rank and Uber are on surge pricing, so we get the train, which was also busy.
It's not the pubs/bars/punters fault, they're just playing by the rules their given. But the curfew hasn't meant people drink less or meeting less, it's just meant they drink early and all come out together at the same time, meaning some will mingle.
If you want to restrict it, there are many more sensible ways. Stop serving at 10pm but allow people to stay and order food/soft drinks for example. Or stop entry to new places at a set time so people don't move around so much when they're inebriated. That way the times they leave are staggered.
Exactly... customers need to be staggered over a longer period, not a shorter one. If this is about packed pubs full of drinkers late at night, and that needs stopping... then limit numbers or close those kinds of pubs/bars (and support their owners and staff).
I think the anti mask folks are about 52% of the population...
We could call them maskexiteers.. who are demanding maskexit....
We really should just let natural selection tun its course here, it would be a win win.
2nd positive test at nearby secondary, only a few kids sent home not the whole bubble, dont get it tbh.
OldManMtb2 - i also find sweeping generalisations work well.
We really should just let natural selection tun its course here, it would be a win win.
Doesn't work like that. The antimaskvax ****ers won't die in all likelihood, but some of the people they pass it onto will.
Spread a conspiracy theory that the government is using the mass gatherings in Trafalgar Square to secretly inoculate everyone in the crowd with a new Bill Gates approved gas-based vaccine. That should thin them out a bit.
book a taxi when you book your meal?Leave at 10pm with everyone else and the area is busy, there’s a queue at the taxi rank
Staggering closing would be an absolute nightmare to administrate, how would you even do it fairly?
Could always support a local business rather than one that requires a taxi/public transport to get to!
I like a sweeping generalisation... the only discussion is the depth and width of the generalisation but i leave that to others.
I encounter a lot of stupid people... maybe i should move to different social circles.
Staggering closing would be an absolute nightmare to administrate, how would you even do it fairly
dont police already try & do this in busy city centres to avoid the kind of scene we've had
Staggering closing would be an absolute nightmare to administrate, how would you even do it fairly?
we had it before the new rules. Restaurants generally take last bookings at 9pm ish, pubs close between 10pm and 12pm. You call last orders 30 mins before you want to close, some leave immediately, some take their time. It happened without rules before COVID.
Could always support a local business rather than one that requires a taxi/public transport to get to!
Well, there 2 independent restaurants within walking distance of my house and I’ve eaten at both within the last 2 weeks. There’s a whole lot more in the centre of Birmingham so there no harm in supporting them and indeed my local taxi firm.
So… people from two households to be stopped … by law … from meeting in the pub/restaurant … in parts of the North East of England. Soon, no one will have a clue what the guidance is, or what the law is. We need more consistent guidance and, now it is changing several times a week, the daily briefings must return.
Would daily briefings help?
I havent a clue what the rules/guidelines/laws are now and I wouldnt watch briefings and even if I did these clowns couldnt articulate their shit show in an sensible manner because they are not sensible.
Would daily briefings help?
I havent a clue what the rules/guidelines/laws are now and I wouldnt watch briefings and even if I did these clowns couldnt articulate their shit show in an sensible manner because they are not sensible.
This.
Would daily briefings help?
If done correctly, yes. It can’t be helped if people choose not to pay attention to them, but it does give others the chance to hear what is happening and why, without relying on local/national news telling us the bits they find interesting (or not). A lot of people are getting confusing news from Facebook and Twitter as well… what floats to the top there isn’t always ideal… the government should at least try and communicate and lead. Even more important if they are changing laws on the hoof.
If done correctly, yes
Hello my name is Little Matty Hancock........
It’s either get them to stand up and tell us what they are doing and why… or we rely on “a source” dripping it out in an even more confusing and contradictory manner, and our media reporting it to us in a manner that allows plausible deniability. Poor daily briefings are bad… no daily briefings is far worse.
AA
Another teacher at mrs anagallis’ school tests positive. Must have picked it up at home!!
Can't be school, they're declared safe.
AA
Would daily briefings help?
I havent a clue what the rules/guidelines/laws are now and I wouldnt watch briefings and even if I did these clowns couldnt articulate their shit show in an sensible manner because they are not sensible.
The problem is its U-turn after u-turn...and little or non of it makes sense in the real world.
Huge amounts of conspiracy theorists are having a field day.
If you give people clear and consistent guidance/rules that are logical and backed by science, ideally with an end goal people will follow them more often than not.
keep giving them contradictory rules and changing your mind and people will be less inclined to.
Daily briefings will not help.
If you give people clear and consistent guidance/rules that are logical and backed by science, ideally with an end goal people will follow them more often than not.
Precisely.
Daily briefings will not help.
It is how you best communicate the above.
It also reinforces the above… because it is easier to get away with not doing so when you don’t have to present in person what is happening and why to the public.
It is how you best communicate the above.
It's too late really... unless they do like Iceland and remove politicians and politics very dfew are going to believe anything from Boris etal.
No. It’s not too late. Things will get far worse if they continue down the private briefing path. I’m not proposing that daily public briefings will undo the damage done… they are required now so as not to allow things to get worse.
Can’t be school, they’re declared safe.
But its also a good opportunity to blame the teachers, which is always nice!!
Our incredibly competent education minister, Gavin Williamson, has been doing a fantastic job of communicating what’s going on in schools and universities.
Anyone seen or heard of him lately?
Maybe he’s been hanging out with Boris
Bit of good news for once.
Although maybe not for us, as seems the UK hasn’t ordered any yet!
But surely, because of the involvement of the European Commission… they’ll still help us ‘till Xmas, yes? [ I have no idea ]
The daily briefings have continued here in Scotland - the message is pretty unambiguous, unless you're a contrarian libertarian
Oops wrong thread
No. It’s not too late. Things will get far worse if they continue down the private briefing path. I’m not proposing that daily public briefings will undo the damage done… they are required now so as not to allow things to get worse.
This. Too many folks now determined to take a contrary view to whatever the government says or does now, but something has to change to try and get the correct messages across
Has this been done?
"organised walks" (hahahahaha, do me a favour) are also exempt. Remember that one when you're outside with your friends/family, if there's over 6 of you.
If different hobbies nag at the government enough, seems they do a U turn on the six law.
Grum - those tests will only be available to low to middle income countries; we're not there, yet, but heading in that direction.
Number of tests available is limited - 120 million tests over 6 months for 133 countries; this equates to an average of 150k tests per month per country for 6 months only so 5k tests per day per country.
I'm not knocking it just quantifying it.
It's immeasurably better than nothing.
what we are seeing is the absence of any kind of plan or leadership
It feels like any/every member of the government is just making this shit up as they go along - because that's exactly what's happening, and that's becoming dangerously obvious to the wider population.
If the economy starts taking a nosedive and/or the death rate starts accelerating, it really wouldn't surprise me if you started seeing widespread anti-government protests. The constant drip of failures is getting to people.
what we are seeing is the absence of any kind of plan or leadership
It feels like any/every member of the government is just making this shit up as they go along – because that’s exactly what’s happening, and that’s becoming dangerously obvious to the wider population.
Summed up perfectly by Jon Snow on Channel 4 news...
https://twitter.com/TheNfster/status/1310694917338009601?s=20
It's actually an old clip, as government ministers have refused to be interviewed by Channel 4 news for months now, but it's presently trending on Twitter as I think it aptly sums up exactly what we're all thinking
Maybe pubs, schools, and workplaces (above a certain number of employees) should be on a rolling 2 weeks on, 2 weeks off? You don't go in unless your surname starts with a letter half way through the alphabet the first two weeks and crack on the following 2 weeks.
Above post edited as it had a load of formatting shite in it for reasons unknown.
Has this been done?
“organised walks” (hahahahaha, do me a favour) are also exempt. Remember that one when you’re outside with your friends/family, if there’s over 6 of you.
Very sensible. There has to be a Covid trained person to carry out track and trace paperwork, and to ensure everyone follows published guidance they've signed up to. So quite different to 3 families going a walk.
If you didn't watch Panorama last night, then it's worth catching it on iplayer.
It showed the Serco (not NHS!) Test and Trace system from a whistleblower filming it from the inside. World-beating it most certainly isn't! Its a complete and utter shambles and we've not a cat in hells chance of getting to grips with Covid if thats what we're dependent on