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Great speech from Johnson in the commons just now... and a good response from Starmer ongoing right now.
[ one offered little detail ... and the other concentrating on the details ... but nothing to disagree with as regards anything said by either ]
So another 6 months of working from home. 10pm curfew on restaurants and pubs, plus table service only. 15 people max at a wedding, and fines doubled to £200.
Interesting that the changes elsewhere (eg Northern Ireland) that ban households mixing in private dwellings hasn't been replicated here.
The changes don't quite feel as urgent as the speech that preceded it
Interesting that the changes elsewhere (eg Northern Ireland) that ban households mixing in private dwellings hasn’t been replicated here.
That is in place in this bit of England... I suspect that more regions will be included if and when they are needed.
Is the working from home an enforceable rule or a guidance? They seem to be emphasising enforcement of the various rules so will we need key worker letters or letters from our employer stating we can't work from home?
Cant see that stopping the acceleration tbh. The only indoor places my wife, myself and my son have been since school started is school and funnily enough theres no distancing or masks...apart from tesco actually, forgot tye food shop.
Yeah it did seem like the speech was saying how bad things were and then the result is a slight changing in the current rules that clearly aren't working.
seems like the virus only likes to come out to play after 10pm so the pubs curfew seems like a sensible precaution.
Great speech from Johnson in the commons just now… and a good response from Starmer ongoing right now.
I feel like he was channeling his best Churchill.
So another 6 months of working from home. 10pm curfew on restaurants and pubs, plus table service only. 15 people max at a wedding, and fines doubled to £200.
Don't forget not being able to play indoor football. These are the things that will blow Corona out of the water.
.
These are the things that will blow Corona out of the water.
What will then ?
The number of businesses that are just going to call it a day on the back of that is going to be huge. He's just read them the last rights. As a self-employed freelancer in an industry that pretty much ground to a halt overnight in March, I truly just despair.
If they end furlough next month then what state this countries economy is going to be in tatters before they even factor in Brexit
We're all just hostages to their rank incompetence.
I thought PJay’s post was pretty subdued really.
Today’s youth is being expected to sacrifice their youth to save the generation that has benefited from free education, cheap housing and decent pensions and pulled up the drawbridge after them whilst expecting the youth to pay the bill.
And they’ve created a climate crisis (that will impact on the youth, not them) and forced the country into an act seppuku and voted in a bunch of lying fanatics without a thought for said youth.
Quite frankly I’m surprised that it’s just ‘* you’ instead of why don’t you just * off and die now, please…
Best hope then youth don’t get properly political!
I also thought PJay's post was pretty much bang on.
That last point about 'youth getting properly political', though is something that terrifies the Tories. Getting younger people on a treadmill of low wage, low security jobs is a key aim.
It serves them in two regards.
Firstly it makes younger people simply too busy trying to make ends meet to even consider what the alternatives might be.
Secondly, it makes them simultaneously protective and resentful. They know they can't put their head above the parapet at work because there is a conveyor belt of applicants who haven't got anything at all - threatening their small crumb of security. This resentment is then easy to channel. Never the fault of the 80 year old who retired 25 years ago, oh no, immigrants, shirkers (edited) etc.
The last time youth got "political" it was the early 90s and the government then were terrified. Turned out, they weren't getting political at all, they were just all out getting pilled up in a field.
Covid and Brexit are revealing just how selfish the oldies are.
Perhaps not more selfish just been asked do you want it easy or do you want it hard more often. People choose easy. We don't exactly do social responsibility and collective good as a society. After all the we need to avoid single use and littering we still managed to learn nothing and start flinging masks and gloves about the place.
On today's announcement about restrictions.
The six months out one was a bit oh moment - mainly because it sees me beyond my expected redundancy point if the re-structure goes as proposed. Not really a poor me more just an oh that's going to feel a bit weird not seeing a lot of people I've worked with.
If they end furlough next month then what state this countries economy is going to be in tatters before they even factor in Brexit
I just want these wise (but perhaps not 100% coherent) words from Binners on this page (they fit in with much of what Dazh has been saying that others have received so negatively). A change of tack is required from the government as regards helping businesses and workers... and the opposition need to offer cooperation in shaping that help... build on and improve on what has been done already this year. Just saying "it's not full lock down" isn't enough to save many sectors, and those that work in them, from the damage that's heading their way (and is heading their way no matter how loose/tight restrictions end up being).
Covid and Brexit are revealing just how selfish the oldies are.
How exactly? By harking back to an era where people had each others backs and some semblance of collective community spirit? You could easily argue that the younger generation are an entitled, selfish and disrespectful rabble who throw their dummies out the pram if they don't have the latest iphone. That would be wrong too. There's a lot more that unites the old and young than divides them. These stupid divisions just play into the culture war nonsense which benefits the right wing and their paymasters.
Turned out, they weren’t getting political at all, they were just all out getting pilled up in a field.
They had time to then. Unlikely you can get pilled up at all if you are constantly looking at your phone wondering if your 'employer' is going to call and expect you in for a couple of hours work, starting in 20 minutes.
If they end furlough next month then what state this countries economy is going to be in tatters before they even factor in Brexit
That was indeed complete nonsense, but thankfully you got the gist
Small businesses are just going to call it a day, en masse if they just announce this and leave everyone to fend for themselves without support. They've all taken huge hits on their incomes with minimal government support. Some, like the industry I work in, with absolutely no government support at all. You can weather that for 6 months, but then the government says 'oh yeah... you'll need to do another six months...". Well you just can't. It's just not possible.
Business failures are now about to go stratospheric
Add in the huge amount of job losses that will have just have been rubber-stamped on the back of that speech, once furlough ends... where this countries economy is heading just doesn't bear thinking about.
Chuck in a no-deal brexit on top of all this and they could be taking an absolute wrecking ball to the entire economy
This government seems to have absolutely zero understanding of how an economy actually functions
How exactly? By harking back to an era where people had each others backs and some semblance of collective community spirit?
The counter to that is perhaps if rent wasn't so high and people were not constantly looking for a new place to live maybe they would stay somewhere long enough to build that community spirit. When I was renting I moved pretty much yearly due to landlords increasing rent for no reason
The counter to that is perhaps if rent wasn’t so high and people were not constantly looking for a new place to live maybe they would stay somewhere long enough to build that community spirit. When I was renting I moved pretty much yearly due to landlords increasing rent for no reason
Keep the rats fighting each other in the sack - then they won't have time to think about how they could pool their efforts to actually get out of the goddamn sack.
Toryism in a nutshell.
I'm surprised at how light the restrictions were.
What do they amount to really? Early closure of pubs, I'm amazed they're allowed to open at all, but Table Service and a 10pm closure isn't bad, it's enough to keep the sensible diners and drinkers coming, and at least try to stop the pissheads hugging.
15 max weddings, I'm sure if you have the "wedding of the century" booked for next week it's earth shattering, but Wedding Season is largely over.
Work from home "if you can". Pfft, I think most people who could work from home, did so anyway. I know the local commuter train station carpark has been empty since March.
The tough bit is that the regulations are so mild, I don't see even a reduced / industry specific furlough extension coming. It's a terrifying prospect really. I think most people assumed the Furlough scheme reducing as lock down eased, but it hasn't it peaked at 9.6m in August and has stayed there ever since. No easy answer for that. It costs £40bn a month to keep the scheme going, but if unemployment jumps from 1.3m to 10m it could cause the economy to collapse.
Indeed... when people say we can't afford the government helping business and workers throughout this winter, they ignore the cost of not doing so... or underestimate that cost.
but Table Service and a 10pm closure isn’t bad, it’s enough to keep the sensible diners and drinkers coming, and at least try to stop the pissheads hugging
This is not a sustainable business model. People running bars - and I've got a couple of mates who do - have lost tens of thousands of pounds over this period. Now they've just been told they'll lose tens of thousands more as their capacity will remain at 25% of pre-covid levels.
Has their rent gone down 75%? No. Have their suppliers knocked their prices down by 75%? No. So the figures no longer add up.
A lot of bars and restaurants and many, many other businesses will just call it a day now on the strength of this, as their business model is simply no longer viable. I'd be amazed if every single hospitality business isn't presently doing the maths and reaching the conclusion that its time to throw in the towel
Prepare for a wave of business failures that will make the banking crisis look like a picnic
Well the pub early closure and table service only measures are great for us middle-aged people. I don't want to have to queue up for beer like I did in my youth
😉
when people say we can’t afford the government helping business and workers throughout this winter
It's not that they don't think the govt can afford it, they just don't want them to do it, because it goes against their warped idea of 'fairness'. They don't care if people suffer, as long as its not them. It's the logical end result of Thatcherism (yes it is all her fault before anyone asks). Add in the usual lies about national credit cards and you quickly get to 'why should my grandkids (who presumably will receive a lovely inheritance) pay for bailing out lazy scroungers'.
I think most people assumed the Furlough scheme reducing as lock down eased, but it hasn’t it peaked at 9.6m in August and has stayed there ever since.
I imagine many employers have 'found efficiencies' whilst employees have been on furlough and the non-furloughed staff (glad to still be earning and be low down the redundo list) have been doing 125% of their usual hours.
Some employers will have viewed this as a government-funded 'process review' exercise. In other cases it will have shown up where employees were actually taking the piss to some extent.
Has their rent gone down 75%? No. Have their suppliers knocked their prices down by 75%? No.
In my village, the one pub's owners just kicked out the standing landlord/lady for not making a months rent - they'd been there for around 15 years I believe.
The other pub, chain brewery owned, has only just opened up for food services, give or take, on skeleton staff.
Well the pub early closure and table service only measures are great for us middle-aged people. I don’t want to have to queue up for beer like I did in my youth
You'll still be queuing at the one remaining pub on the street when the other three have closed.
P.S. I know your post was tongue in cheek.
I don’t want to have to queue up for beer like I did in my youth
It's alright, if there ends up being very few pubs left, your queuing concerns will become irrelevant. Wetherspoons will always be there, I suppose... enjoy their table service.
This is not a sustainable business model. People running bars – and I’ve got a couple of mates who do – have lost tens of thousands of pounds over this period. Now they’ve just been told they’ll lose tens of thousands more as their capacity will remain at 25% of pre-covid levels.
Has their rent gone down 75%? No. Have their suppliers knocked their prices down by 75%? No.
A lot of bars and restaurants will just call it a day now on the strength of this today as their business is simply no longer tangible. I’d be amazed if every single hospitality business isn’t presently doing the maths and reaching the conclusion that its time to call it a day
It could be, I'm not saying it will be easy, far from, but from my limited experience the sorts of places that keep the doors open by selling drinks to drinkers are the sorts of places that, whilst not promoting, certainly facilitate binge drinking culture, and it's completely incompatible with pandemics.
The pubs, at least local to me that don't go for that market are all but restaurants these days. How much more would that have to charge to make the economics work? £1 a drink £2, £3 - don't get me wrong I winced the first time a paid real folding money (well, a fiver) for a pint, but I'd pay £8 a pint, if it was brought to me.
Difficult to know where to start with that, really.
I'm going to go out on a limb here and say you've never run a business?
Have you any idea the margins most hospitality businesses operate on?
"Oh, we'll just charge everyone 8 quid a pint" isn't really a business model, is it?
"Yes, sir, 30 pounds is a bit steep for a burger, but on the plus side we will bring it to your table..."
“Oh, we’ll just charge everyone 8 quid a pint” isn’t really a business model, is it?
Unless they're selling a double dry-hopped cloudy IPA in a pretty can 😉
I’d pay £8 a pint, if it was brought to me.
Don't tell the wife or she won't bring me another can from the fridge
it makes them simultaneously protective and resentful. They know they can’t put their head above the parapet at work because there is a conveyor belt of applicants who haven’t got anything at all – threatening their small crumb of security.
Maybe if the youth were to be more organised politically things could really change, but those in charge don't want either.
For restaurants locally have closed. Gastro works on thin margins.
A mate has a bar /restaurant... His landlord has paused his rent (7k/month) for now, but wants full payment at the end of the year.... 56k that he hasn't got. His current turnover is covering staff wages and not much more, and that is with the good weather we've been having. Can't see him doing so well come the colder months when no one wants to sit inside.
Have you any idea the margins most hospitality businesses operate on?
Not directed at me I know, but...
The chain pub near us made all its cash over the sunny weekends during the summer holiday, and Christmas. If summer weather was bad, it might not make a bean all year. The other ten months were dead loss or break even on a really good month. That is/was a mainly "family Sunday lunch" type pub. Dead during the week. Locals mostly drank at the other pub... the one that just kicked the landlord out.
Don’t tell the wife or she won’t bring me another can from the fridge
Helps if you have kids, you can just defer the orders down the chain.
OK, question for those in the know.
Colleague has today (22/9) failed a temp check at doctors, and been advised to get a test.
We all were in the office together last Wednesday (16/9) - this was the last time that they physically met anyone from work.
What happens (if anything) to all of us from the office if the test is positive - our contact with them would be six or possibly seven days prior to the hypothetical positive test.
I did mention beforehand (only verbally) that it was stupid for us all to be together, due to work implications if all of us simultaneously had to self isolate.
Colleague has today (22/9) failed a temp check at doctors, and been advised to get a test.
We all were in the office together last Wednesday (16/9) – this was the last time that they physically met anyone from work.
Nowt, its 48hrs from onset of symptoms AFAIK. Has to be 15mins between 1 or 2m or 1min less than 1min.
My pox ridden other half has just spent about 4hrs trying to fill the form in as she us so racked with guilt. I had to firmly explain that 1.5m was actually between 1 and 2m!!! Unsurprisingly the system has now locked her out!
Helps if you have kids, you can just defer the orders down the chain.
Things don't make it past the removal from the fridge stage in this household!
Nowt, its 48hrs from onset of symptoms AFAIK. Has to be 15mins between 1 or 2m or 1min less than 1min.
Very releived on behalf of my business.
At least some of us would have failed the bold bit above.
They were completely unaware of their raised temperature, and had no other symptoms, only found out due to compulsory scan at GP.
Has a primary aged kid, so probably something from school.
Getting deja vu from March. I'm trying to secure a couple of dozen laptops for a client. The ones I ordered yesterday have been cancelled. Trying to find more, they're £20 more a unit, back to the client, they suck air through their teeth, go back to supplier - oops they're gone, next lot are £20 more again so back, missed those...
Client has gone back to their FD to agree a big leap in budget... meanwhile stocks are disappearing quickly.
Maybe my work experience distorts stuff a bit (i work in tech) but I can't for the life of me think why in this day and age people don't have laptops. I haven't have a desktop work computer for about 7 or 8 years and laptops are more than powerful enough to handle pretty much anything these days.
Had to go and do a shop earlier - panic buying in full spree again, bog roll, flour, piss, the works. People are mental.
Because the historical perception of laptops is that they are a bit shit and historical perception persists.
Maybe my work experience distorts stuff a bit (i work in tech) but I can’t for the life of me think why in this day and age people don’t have laptops. I haven’t have a desktop work computer for about 7 or 8 years and laptops are more than powerful enough to handle pretty much anything these days.
I think that will be the case in the near future.
We I advise on hardware to clients we always recommend desktops for users who aren't mobile.
Lower cost.
Longer average working life.
Easier to comply with GDPR / Cyber Essentials+.
Far less change of accidental damage.
And unless clients are willing to go to the expense of docks, dual screens, larger screens, full KB+M etc cuts down on HR issues.
And like for like (i3 v i3, i5 v i5 etc) desktops are faster, more powerful etc.
People are mental.
One thing I have to remind myself of regularly is (and this is me giving the GINO* a bit of slack) that there are a lot of utter cretins out there. If they have to tailor their message so at least 90% of the country understand it (or can be arsed looking up from their iPhones for more than ten seconds) it is likely to have to involve cartoon strip images.
Like the ones you used to see in swimming pools - "No Petting".
*Government In Name Only
yeh, i guess thats all very true. Im just a designer so only really running low cpu usage stuff. Although im a product designer at a bank and the security stuff is a pain! I have to run a windows portal thing on my mac to use all the HR related stuff.
panic buying in full spree again, bog roll, flour, piss, the works.
Don't worry, you can make your own, with beer, and a bit of time.
I can’t for the life of me think why in this day and age people don’t have laptops
My school cant afford to get me one.
This government seems to have absolutely zero understanding of how an economy actually functions
I think they do, they just don't care about anyone apart from themselves
Just read p-jay's post.
As much as I want folks to abide by the rules to protect my mid 70s folks, it's hard to argue with anything he's posted there.
The WFH statement seems pointless unless it's enforced. You can only work from home if your employer allows you to...
My employer has spent thousands on 'covid-safing' the offices in order to bring people back in to the office. Letting them stay at home would have been cheaper and safer
tpbiker
Free Member
Just read p-jay’s post.As much as I want folks to abide by the rules to protect my mid 70s folks, it’s hard to argue with anything he’s posted there.
Yep. I've hardly seen my parents as my dad in particular is very high risk. Xmas is going to be hard this year.
But it is difficult to sympathise with those people (mainly older generation s) whose complaint is they aren't making as much on their savings and investments when the younger generation is at risk of eviction or defaulting on their mortgages, all in an effort to keep the older generation alive...
Okay... I praised Johnson and Starmer for their speeches today... and then along comes Sturgeon to blow them out of the water again... everything clear, reasoned and communicated in a way "our" leaders still fall well short of... and they've had six months to learn how to do this.
FFS - Trump - FFS
"the nation that unleashed this plague"
To the UN.
FFS
Had to go and do a shop earlier – panic buying in full spree again, bog roll, flour, piss, the works. People are mental.
I went to my local Morrisons eariler and some items such as tins and pasta etc., were running low. It really pisses me off that some people can be so utterly thick. I also blame the likes of the Daily Mail for posting picture of empty shelves and being alarmist. It's totally irresponsible because it creates the panic.
Well, my 11yo has been ejected from Secondary as he has a cough and general malaise - no other symptoms. Done his homework and is in bed. I've succumbed to thinking he should have a test, but guess what, nothing available.
Hope he's okay.
Because the historical perception of laptops is that they are a bit shit and historical perception persists.
Shit to type on, hard to get keyboard and screen in the right place unless you use a dock in which case whats the point
Kelvin - she is very good at this stuff. I am sure its partly a political decision but its also that she is able to connect to people having some real life experience unlike Johnson.
She is confident and secure in herself so does not have to bluster and obfuscate to make it look like the decisions are to complex for mere mortals
Our world class test track and trace system kicked in today. Mrs anagallis filled in the form online (eventually), I got a text and email telling me to stay put all good. Anagallis junior got a call asking to speak to parent, me. Answered the questions then he told me that as he was only a contact other people in the house didnt need to stay in. Sorry what, could you say that again, yes others in the house dont need to isolate.
So my wife who has tested positive doesnt need to isolate as her and myself are just contacts of a contact...I'm off to the pub, what time does it close?
I’ve succumbed to thinking he should have a test, but guess what, nothing available.
The trick seems to be to start trying at 8pm
Because the historical perception of laptops is that they are a bit shit and historical perception persists.
Sent my son to Uni with an old high spec Lenovo laptop and a work docking station. None of his housemates had ever seen a docking station before. Three months later they all had the same. This comes to you via laptop in a draw on a docking station, a Bluetooth mouse and keyboard and a 22" monitor. Laptops are great (I don't do gaming but I do do simulations). I want the same setup at home and work. Just drop the laptop onto the station and off I go. No carrying peripherals or a half-kilo charger.
The trick seems to be to start trying at 8pm
Ta, I’ll try that while Boris is trying to convince us the scientists that say his new rules won’t reduce the transmission are wrong. Scots CMO fwiw.
The trick seems to be to start trying at 8pm
Didn't work for me when I spent 5 days trying from 7am to midnight daily with 15 minute refreshes before finally getting a test.
You could try gaming the system by using postcodes in distant parts of the UK - Inverness, Aberdeen, Carlisle have all been used in attempts to book tests but the postcode must be valid.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/sep/15/uk-families-having-to-hack-system-to-get-coronavirus-test
Shall we admit that we’ve completely ****ed up the test, track and trace system, and try something that makes more sense, ie: taking it off Serco and giving it to regional health authorities instead?
No... let’s completely shut down the economy again instead
Shall we admit that we’ve completely ****ed up the test, track and trace system, and try something that makes more sense, ie: taking it off Serco and giving it to regional health authorities instead?
No… let’s completely shut down the economy again instead
How's the App doing?
Confirmed case in my daughter's year today. Despite the whole year being a 'bubble' which mixes freely and closely at lunchtimes/form periods (sitting next to whoever at lunch etc), only the people sitting immediately next to her in lessons have been sent home to isolate. Other pupils, even those in her lessons, haven't even been told they have shared a room with a potentially-infectious person. Does anyone know what the recommended policy from Public Health England is these circumstances?
How’s the App doing?
Just about to be rolled out - again; ha.
Does anyone know what the recommended policy from Public Health England is these circumstances?
I'm going to go with no.
Dont worry schools are protected by a ring of steal! Kids dont get itvand teachers are immune!
How’s the App doing?
Hasn’t it been progressively downgraded to now what’s basically a glorified QR Code scanner?
A ‘World-Beating’ QR Code Scanner, obbviously
More an observation on the outside world than the thread
If people put as much time and effort into minimising transmission / infection risks in their lives they do into the earnest excusing themselves from any restrictions we'd be in a lot better place right now.
No… let’s completely shut down the economy again instead
Errrr...
What?
"...the people want a government to protect them - I mean YOU!..."
What a slip up...
Remember everyone if we all pull together and follow the rules infections will fall again and we’ll all be fine!
So when infections reach 50k a day in a few weeks it’s not the Gov fault, it’s ours.
Worry more about hospital admissions: about 200/day at the moment in England and Wales. 400 in 10 days, 800 in 20 days, 1600 in 30 days and 3200 in 40 days - or thereabouts... Another week of data will help nail down the doubling time but 7-14 days is not unreasonable. Peak admissions was 3099 on April 1. If perhaps 2-6% of patients seek hospital attention, then that would be 53-160,000 cases per day. That won't happen, because contact restriction works more effectively than wearing a mask.
Damn booked a campsite in Wales for the weekend. All self contained in our van and decided to book a site to not add to the wild camping issue for locals. And then Mark Drakeford has just restricted all non essential travel... Doh! I know* legally as an English resident I could still go but doesn’t quite seem right when Welsh folk can’t move about. Oh well, we’ve played by the rules so far so will carry on doing so.
*Edit: Twitter (non reliably) suggests this is true. Lack of official guidance I can find so far. Also I don’t think in non lockdown areas of Wales it is legally binding. I’m very confused.