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Yep, were surrounded by Blackburn, Hyndburn, Pendle, Rochdale, looks like their inability to behave responsibly is impacting Rossendale which up to now hasn't been bad. Calderdale has also been caught in the net. Personally fuming as we've been WFH, not been out shopping except food, not been to the pub or eaten out. Wonder how much of this decision is due to the high Asian populations in these areas, populations that have seen rapid rises in cases on the eve of Eid.
Don't just focus on the Asian community.
What about the white non-working underclass? And the over-50s I'll do what I want brigade
Fwiw - we're in Calderdale and we've followed the rules
It's been widely reported it is particularly prevalent in the Asian community here on the BBC news. Whether it's to do with multi generation households, tightly packed communities, cultural differences I don't know. It's not been reported here as riping through the white working class communities, may be it is, but it's not been reported. Look at the places it's flared up, Leicester, Bradford, Rochdale, Oldham, Blackburn, Pendle, Hyndburn, there is a clear common denominator.
All those areas do have sizeable Asian communities but they are not 100% of the local population. The media don't report on the lower class white community because there is nothing interesting to say and doesn't fit in with their narrative.
Stockport where we are is included in the decision.
Sounds as though you can't visit another home including a garden, but you can got to a pub, cafe or shop!!
Looks like Northern England has caught the attention of Westminster:
About time. They’ve had more than two weeks of warning. Every analysis I’ve done has thrown up these regions.
We can’t go into each other’s houses, but we can go to the pub, right?
Can we drive to Barnard Castle to test our eyesight? Asking for a friend
BBC Newsnight correspondent Lewis Goodall said the Department of Health and Social Care had confirmed the restrictions will apply to all indoor settings - so it will mean that no two households should meet in places including pubs and restaurants.
What about 3 households?
Asking for 2 friends
😉
Yes you can go to the pub Binners, but you can't intentionally meet another household. Rossendale caught in the middle of all this has seen an increase of 1 case since last week, not exactly a spike. Calderdale is also included despite being in the lowest 25% of local authorities.
Local Facebook is going into melt down, I can't see many people taking this well, or adhering to it, the idiots that haven't all the way through will continue to act like selfish gits, people who have are now really pissed off and likely to say screw it.
We had the heads up about this being very likely from Calderdale councillors, and I passed that on in this thread the other day. It’s not relevant that cases are lower here than in surrounding areas… if the spread is all around you… lock down. Oh, and the multigenerational household thing isn’t the cause of the spread, but is a cause for concern about the effect of the spread. People meeting up is the cause of the spread… and no, not people breaking the rules, or taking the piss… don’t go all sneery at white working class or Asian families… this is down to people doing what they were told they could and should do… including going back to workplaces, and schools, and social venues, even when not essential. They were told to do so. It was poor advice.
Nothing on the official government website, just local restrictions for Leicester, Luton and Blackburn. No clarity at all, lots of speculation and a lot of people linking the timing of the announcement with Eid.
This is such total bullshit, I can’t see anyone taking any notice of it.
I think we all know who this is aimed at. It’s pretty cynical timing
Good old-fashioned dog whistle racism.
Well, why not? it’s served them well so far
It’s not our fault. It’s ‘them’
People need to take notice of it. It’s not a game.
Right… I’m going to crack open a can of Bernard Castle Eye Test…
Binners is spot on.
BBC report just now seemed to suggest the rise is in younger, middle class households ignoring the guidelines.
I was going to stay in a self catering place in Hebden Bridge next week. Can I still go?
ignoring the guidelines
Pass the blame… so obvious that they would.
The ‘guidelines’ have been a mess of confused messaging for weeks now.
Right… getting that can of Eye Test…
How many Hindus are celebrating Eid?
onewheelgood, from what I can glean from the confused and unhelpful info leaking out, yes, you can still go to the Gym, pub, restaurant etc and sit next to total strangers but not meet up with people you know.
Great… every news outlet seems to have been briefed different rules… yet they kick in at midnight? Communication fkwits.
For a long time I thought the confusing and contradictory messaging was deliberate, so that they could blame us for not following their guidelines. But now it is looking more and more as if they are just ****wits.
https://twitter.com/oneliferideit/status/1288958289758355461?s=21
Tory MP on Newsnight saying that not publishing, or properly announcing, guidelines before they kick in is… “treating people like grownups”… punchable.
The new rules Governing massive areas of the north of England come into force in 50 minutes and nobody has a *ing clue what those rules actually are
This really does take their utter *-wittery to epic new levels
Is everyone meant to go to work tomorrow then? Will non-essential’ shops be open?
I’m assuming that even though I can’t invite anyone into my home, I could meet them in spoons for a two for one meal subsidised by the government?
These and a thousand other unanswered questions brought to you by Boris, Matt, Dom and the utter ****ing clowns presently winging it as our government
I thought it was just an order to not go to other people's houses? And not to meet up to celebrate Eid.
I can still howl at the moon and bark at next doors cat.
Cold War Steve does it again:
These and a thousand other unanswered questions brought to you by Boris, Matt, Dom and the utter ****ing clowns presently winging it as our government
Go to work… outdoors… or only with members of your own family… only eat your lunch with strangers… or something.
Remind me… when does help for those shielding at home end? Saturday?
Go to work but don’t go to work. Go shopping but don’t go shopping. Use public transport but don’t use public transport. Go to the pub but don’t go to the pub
Clear?
Erm, no. Yes. Maybe
It’s perfectly clear, apply common sense until common sense fails to work at controlling the spread of the virus then isolate for 10 days separately from family members but do go out and visit a spoons as long as no family members are also in spoons, don’t use public transport but do spend money in local businesses and finally let’s get going.
(Not quite sure where we are meant to get going to but perhaps I have no common sense so it’s my fault if I wander off in the opposite direction)
Journalists are trying… but working in the disinformation/misinformation age must be tiring for them…
https://twitter.com/lewis_goodall/status/1288969346094686208?s=21
https://twitter.com/lewis_goodall/status/1288971113586929664?s=21
https://twitter.com/lewis_goodall/status/1288972997425078272?s=21
https://twitter.com/spittingcat/status/1288979336972980225?s=21
Hang on, just realised that says we are back to not being able to meet up with friends and family in gardens again… but we can be indoors in a pub with strangers. What the actual… ?!?
You can meet up with whoever you like. As long as you don’t know them and there’s a card reader present.
The normal clear and concise, well thought through policy from our incredibly competent government
A masterpiece of incompetence and approaching the threshold of criminal negligence.
Does johnson or any member of his clown circus have the slightest hucking clue about what they're doing?
If their arses were on fire I wouldn't piss on them to extinguish the flames.
If Boris could have put it how his journalistic instincts are telling him to put it, he’d have just written an article in the daily telegraph saying ‘can all you letterboxes/bank robbers and your jihadist husbands not visit each other for Eid, or we’ll deport you back to bongo bongo land
That’s why he sent little Matty Handjob out to do it instead. There’s no telling he wouldn’t just blurt it out anyway
So instead he’s imposed a lockdown on most of the north west of England.
If you were in any doubt as to how much of an utter dickhead Laurence Fox was after his previous outburst then this should finally allay those doubts
https://twitter.com/lozzafox/status/1288102126460088325?s=21
He’s going full “Hopkins”
https://coronavirus-staging.data.gov.uk/cases?areaType=ltla&areaName=Kirklees
If I read that data right, the number of cases daily is dropping in Kirklees and the number was low and steady prior to the drop anyway.
Other areas like Oldham, Calderdale etc do appear to be increasing but then you have Rossendale.
https://coronavirus-staging.data.gov.uk/cases?areaType=ltla&areaName=Rossendale
Kirklees figures were high because of the meat packing plant and bed factories (we have a polish chap booked in who is a manager in a bed factory so I should learn more about that soon). I work in Kirklees but live in Calderdale. Calderdale seems to have stayed relatively low.
i live in Greater Manchester and have, on separate days, an electrician, plumber and plasterer lined up for a job in my house starting August 7th. Are they allowed in? Can't find any details.
I'm as frustrated with the crap communication as the rest of you, but we're disappearing down a rabbit hole of our own making at times with all this whataboutery.
As I read it, there's been no increase in numbers linked to pubs, restaurants, returning to work etc. In all those places, social distancing, 2 metres, facemasks etc still apply, and from my experience, in an area which isn't a problem yet, those measures are generally being respected.
Giving the government the benefit of the doubt - though the communication and publishing of supporting data is rubbish - it seems that the rises in cases in these areas is due to people meeting up socially, in each others houses or outside and not respecting/understanding the social distancing measures that still apply in those circumstances. I see it around here, with friends and families going into each others houses, teenagers meeting up in the park, I'm probably guilty of it myself at times in not keeping 2 metres from my parents - who I'm still not allowed to hug - inside their small bungalow.
Sometimes we seem too keen to find the problem with the government's handling without taking a step back. And I'm as guilty of it as anyone.
If you were in any doubt as to how much of an utter dickhead Laurence Fox was
I met him once a lot of years ago and I've never been in doubt.
If you were in any doubt as to how much of an utter dickhead Laurence Fox was after his previous outburst then this should finally allay those doubts
If he's so against it why not just stay at home. He's a classic exponent of the right wing victim mentality - 'I want all of the rights but none of the responsibilities, poor me, waaaah'
MCTD - true up to a point but why is lockdown working so much better in Scotland? A government that appears to have a clue must be a big factor. The Dominic Cummings episode was a total disaster for people's adherence to lockdown guidance.
It's unfair to just blame certain communities. Basically lots of people have not followed the rules from day 1 regardless of ethnicity, creed or social class.
neighbour 1 has had grandparents visiting on an almost daily basis all the way thru this. They wore masks but were clearly not following the rules.
neighbour 2 has had their kids and grandkids around all the time. It's been business as usual for them.
Neighbour 3 has been having BBQs aplenty. Easter weekend was a loud noisy one.
For the record they are all white.
On the other hand we've been very careful as have our nearest neighbours
It’s unfair to just blame certain communities
Absolutely but the timing of this stinks of getting it in before Eid in all of these boroughs and nearby ones that have large Asian populations.
Wonder if on Christmas eve they'll impose the same lockdown 😉
why is lockdown working so much better in Scotland? A government that appears to have a clue must be a big factor.
I would say "better" not "so much better" Clear messages that everyone can understand is a factor along with a leader who (at least) appears to tell the truth, treat the people like adults, explains the reasons for the decisions. I know a number of unionists who trust Sturgeon over this and one an ex tory candidate who will now vote SNP and for independence on the back of this
The other reason is we have a track and trace system up here that is actually fit for purpose. I would think that a factor
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/jul/31/outsourcing-england-test-trace-nhs-private
😳
but we can be indoors in a pub with strangers
It’s struck me that they can’t go to a pub with say, their grandparents in another household, yet someone forgot about the chances of someone else - from another household - being at a public house?
I agree up thier that really it’s about individual common sense now because our government can’t provide clear guidelines. We all just need to do the best we can. Unfortunately thiers a great deal of numptys, conspiracy theorists, Laurence Fox and media driven people that will carry on regardless.
A friend of mine is retiring to Cyprus permanently in September - assuming there continues to be a flight. So we decided to have a real life get together mid August. We’ve booked separate rooms at a premier inn and will have a meal and a few beers in the adjoining pub. Our - and the restaurants - anti Covid measures are making it quite a strained arrangement, because essentially we all need to social distance, despite being in a beer garden hoping for fair weather We’ll be wearing masks, and our eating arrangement seems to be 3 x tables for 2 distanced. Card readers only and at table service for beers of course.
What’s the betting when we get there we are the odd ones out?
MCTD you clearly don't live in the North West. This is firmly targeted at the Asian communities here where transmission rates are high and increasing again on the eve of one of the most important Muslim festivals of the year. Thats kind of the point, these communities are not going out to the pub but tend to socialise a lot in their own communties with strong family interaction. Look at it another way, if this was Christmas eve and this was announced how many people would still meet up the following day for Christmas lunch. A lot of other people have been caught up in this such as the western end of Calderdale and Rossendale where case levels are low and have been all the way through.
People in Rossendale are numerate enough to read the data and seem to be pretty much saying you can stuff your new rules, we've behaved, the stats for us are good, you couldn't enforce the proper lock down when it was needed, the rules are unclear, basically the government has lost any last vestiges of respect.
This is all going to be completely unenforceable and generally ignored. If it was that serious pubs, restaurants, Costa coffee and non essential shops should have been closed again, that is enforceable and takes away the reasons many leave home.
As I read it, there’s been no increase in numbers linked to pubs, restaurants, returning to work etc. In all those places, social distancing, 2 metres, facemasks etc still apply, and from my experience, in an area which isn’t a problem yet, those measures are generally being respected.
The cynic in me thinks that's what they want you to believe. But where does it say that? Most of the outbreaks I'm aware of HAVE been through those places.
Does anyone know if it means we can't visit people in other places?
E.g. I live in Manchester can I go and see a friend in Cheshire?
Common sense would say no but it's not really clear in any of the information I've read.
And actually, more than being cynical, I'm calling bullshit. So people were perfectly behaved for 6 weeks, then just as pubs restaurants and workplaces started to open up, they began to take more risks at home but not in any of those places that the government has just allowed to re-open. What an amazing coincidence. I mean, it's almost perfectly in line with the government having no responsibility or effect on rising cases. Bullshit. Bullshit. Bullshit.
I think they know full well that people will not obey this given the randomness of not allowing folk to meet in houses but pubs still are open - thus they then have a scapegoat in those funny brown folk who did not obey the rules.
Edit: they also ( the tories) do not want to upset the big pub owners who give them money
I see it around here, with friends and families going into each others houses, teenagers meeting up in the park
Sorry … but why would those people think that they can’t do those things? Have I been listening to different government messaging?
Only successful tracing I’m aware of around here we’re staff at schools, visitors to pubs and people in their places of work.
Admittedly, we still don’t have the means in place to trace contacts in parks etc… but that isn’t the fault of the public.
I think this is a conspiracy to get muslims going into pubs, eid out to help out.
We arrived in Kirklees from Scotland last night to stay with my parents for 4 days. The news was announced 3 hours into our 5 hour journey, but because this isn't the USSR and we're not forced to listen to government radio, we had no idea til we arrived and my folks were in a flap.
What the flip are we supposed to do? We're here now, we weren't going to make an unsafe drive back north having arrived starting to feel tired (or maybe we should, unsafe driving during covid lockdown is a precedent set by the government itself).
If there had been any hint of "we are considering a lockdown in Kirklees" in the news during the week obviously we'd not have come but, just like when they announced the original lockdown, there was no information beforehand, no treating people like adults and an instant "you've misbehaved, get on the naughty step" response from a government that doesn't seem to like telling it's citizens what the heck is going on or planning ahead.
We stopped at Tebay services and I've been at Euston station for work this week and despite the guidance being officially keep 2m apart unless you absolutely can't they had both latched onto the 1m+ bit and were only telling you to stay 1m apart.
I've only been here 10 hours and by God did I feel a hell of a lot safer back in Scotland where we know where we stand and what we're supposed to do.
If you were in any doubt as to how much of an utter dickhead Laurence Fox was
He's even starting to put me off his cousin!!
He’s even starting to put me off his cousin!!
His sister was really very lovely as I recall
@chambord - I think no. I was going to visit family in N Wales next week but alas we can't.
The full details are on Govt website
The full details are on Govt website
Got a link to that? It would useful.
Remind me why we don’t need daily briefings anymore?
Are people shielding for serious medical reasons still supposed to go back to work from tomorrow?
I think this is a conspiracy to get muslims going into pubs, eid out to help out.
Nice 🙂
A mate runs a bar in Rossendale. He's tearing his hair out this morning. They've spent a fortune on Covid measures with screens between tables and removing tables for social distancing. We've been in and you have to book a time slot for a table. He's been through his bookings for the weekend, and he reckons that under the new rules only about 20% of them will meet the new guidelines of all being from the same household. I'm surprised it's that high
He is understandably totally *ing livid as he only found out about this at 10 o clock last night.
But if all his bookings turn up, what does he do? If he lets everyone in knowing they're breaking guidelines, is he responsible legally? Is he essentially responsible for policing this?
Its a total *ing shambles!
Thanks Jon…
According to those… socialising with strangers is just as prohibited as planning to meet up with people you know but don’t live with. This is basically shutting pubs, but not shutting pubs… like they tried to do the week before national “lock down”… pretty much leaving pubs to rely on people ignoring the rules to scratch an income.
Edit:
socialise with people you do not live with in other indoor public venues – such as pubs, restaurants, cafes, shops, places of worship, community centres, leisure and entertainment venues, or visitor attractions.
Is he essentially responsible for policing this?
Doubt it. Hope not anyway. He can’t plead ignorance as he should have all their contact details, I presume.
Edit: hang on…
If you run such a business, you should take steps to ensure people do not interact with people they do not live with, in line with COVID-19 Secure guidance.
So we're back to where we were in March, where people were told don't go to the pub, but pubs were allowed to stay open so the govt didn't have to support them. This is no different. I guess we can kiss goodbye to the hospitality sector. My sympathies to the millions who are about to lose their jobs because of government cowardice and incompetence.
They've just put this statement out and emailed all their bookings
In response to the latest measures restricting two households from meeting indoors, including in pubs, we are asking anyone booked in this weekend to consider whether their party complies with this now. If not, please let us know.
We WILL be adhering to the rules, even though it will affect us commercially very significantly, and we won’t be turning a blind eye to any attempts to bypass it. If we don’t believe your party is from one household, we won’t be able to seat you, unless you can provide evidence that it is.
Small parties occupying a larger table will be allocated a minimum of an hour, after which they may be asked to leave if a larger party is waiting to be admitted. We hate imposing this, but we fear that our already reduced takings will be badly hit by the new regulations and we need to squeeze every penny out of each seat wherever possible.
All this is under constant review. Hopefully the regulations will be removed very soon and things can return to normal, whatever that is!
Thanks for your support.
I can't even begin to imagine how frustrated they are. We went out for a (socially distanced) beer with them on Monday. They run a great place that they've invested their lives in and is a real asset to the local community. Its a real ale place (CAMRA pub of the year since they opened) - you lot would love it!
They've now burnt through all their savings, they've opened again obeying all the guidelines (which has cost a fortune), and now this. It'll probably finish them off if it goes on for long. How many other businesses will be in exactly the same boat this morning? How many bar and restaurant owners are now also going to go under. Who's going to be left? Wetherspoons? 🙁
So… can teenagers meet up in the park?
Boris is doing a press conference at 12.
That should clear everything up a treat. These things are always such professional and informative affairs
I wonder what new 3 word slogan Dom will have dreamt up for this one
GET BACK INSIDE!
From the 2nd bullet point in Local Restrictions section
If you live in one of the affected areas, in order to help prevent the spread of coronavirus, you should not:
- visit someone else’s home or garden <span style="text-decoration: underline;">even if they live outside of the affected areas</span>.
So… can teenagers meet up in the park?
Yes, if they socially distance. As per the point I made earlier but someone cherry picked the sentence after.
I must have missed the bit where people from two households were allowed to sit with each other for a meal in a pub or restaurant. Can anyone tell me when the "two households meeting up" lost the requirement to be 2 metres apart?
Our delightful MP, Craig Shittaker is at it again:
Craig Whittaker, MP for the Calder Valley in West Yorkshire, told LBC: 'If you look at the areas where we've seen rises and cases, the vast majority - but not by any stretch of the imagination all areas - it is the BAME communities that are not taking this seriously enough'. When asked he was referring to the immigrant population, he said: 'Immigrant and Asian population.'
(Apologies for the Daily Fail quote but sometimes you have to snoop on the enemy to see what they're up to).
For anyone interested, here was Monday's outliers by local authority - I estimate Z-score of deviance from exponential decline. I also look at second derivative for "up and coming" areas at both Upper Tier and Lower Tier Local Local Authority levels.
Blackburn with Darwen, Rutland, Calderdale, Sandwell, Rochdale, Trafford, Oldham, Bradford
Leicester, Kirklees, Hackney and City of London, Herefordshire County of
Swindon, Salford, Manchester, Birmingham, Tower Hamlets, Torbay, Peterborough, Luton
People tend to take a very local and short-term view of what is really happening on the large-scale. I've been providing this analysis for weeks. Top Lower Tier Local Authorities for next wave of local lockdown are Bassetlaw, Bury, Cheshire West and Chester.
"Hands, Space, Face. I think that's pretty punchy?"
Can't beat a another good three word slogan for the masses to interpret.
I don't know many of those areas very well but I'm pretty sure Rutland hasn't got much in the way of a BAME community.
I really do feel for all those that now have restrictions, I know how you feel ☹️
Our delightful MP, Craig Shittaker is at it again:
And "Johnson" Johnson conspicuously doesn't say he disagrees.
I liked how the punchy 3 word slogan evolved into a rambling mess by the end.
"Hands, face, space"
"Hands, face, space, oh and get a test if you show symptoms"
"Hands, face space. Get a test if you show symptoms. Oh and self isolate if required to do so"...
Insert Monty Python Spanish inquisition gif here
You had three words!
THREE!!
Its like bad performance art, a self referential parody. I'm half convinced its a piss take and they will all go and have a jolly good guffaw at the plebs now.
Like they sat down and went through a list of the daftest slogans they could come up with:
"Get Covid Done?"
No a bit too obvious even for the Daily Express readers
"Take Back Inside?"
No sounds a bit weird and creepy
"Hands, Face, Space?"
Ha Wozza! a nice play on "Man Woman Camera", should I add some Cicero, something about gardens?
No Boris just stick to the slogan.
Relax - johnson says he'll be working flat out during the summer hols.
So that will make everything OK; I'm re-assured.