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It will be just us lemmings in England. The independent SAGE grouping have cautioned against reducing the distancing measure. Meat processing plants appear to be places where the workforce are particularly vulnerable with one or two large clusters here.
I shall wax my board and await the second wave.
No doubt at some point those who want to holiday will come to our door. I will have to work and hopefully not catch the virus from them.
What time is Boris on TV? I need to plan my midweek ride to avoid it.
Well, Super Saturday or Independence day it’s being called, July 4 - the day we went back to almost normal, with the exception of a few rules for enclosed spaces to try to separate people or ventilate a cinema. Yet still we are at level 3?
I have a naturally paranoid personality, I’m not rushing to a cinema yet.
In other news, Farage received “special dispensation” to travel to the Tulsa rally in America. Wtf. Currently under investigation.
Did you not get the memo? The politicos are a special exception to all the usual virus rules.
Well I say rules, they're more like guidelines.
Bit like the pirate code.
Parlay!
Tennis players and Golfers have just proved the point, Djokovic the anti-vaxxer made a right arse of himself.
Im not really interested in going to the cinema or pub - Id like my son to be able to see his grandparents without being 1 or 2m away. Makes no sense as within our family none of us have gone anywhere public for months - however we cant see each other properly but there has to be a higher probability of catching it of someone 1m away down the pub! At least with my parents I know where they have been and trust them!
What is happening in other countries as far as seeing other family members? France is 1m distancing but how does it work within family units etc?
In the absence of any science contributions, here's a digression on easing the lockdown, gangs and Class A drugs.
none of us have gone anywhere public for months – however we cant see each other properly
Then I'd suggest you're being over-cautious.
Sounds like it will be another Good-Old-Good-News-Boris Briefing today.
Time to get to the pub and Support British Businesses by purchasing foreign lager.
Meat processing plants appear to be places where the workforce are particularly vulnerable with one or two large clusters here.
Or is it just they have been tested?
A bit like the towering intellect of Trump tweeted, more testing equals more cases.
Last week when I stated a 2nd wave would be on its way the response was..
Which can only be based on your own fear or irrationalness, rather than any worldwide data.
I'd like to think it's far more down to basic common sense. When we locked down the virus was no more prevelant than it is now. But whilst before we locked down, now we are planning to reopen everything, bin the 2 meter rule, and pander to shouty pub chain owners who are putting profit above safety.
If there isn't a second spike I will eat my hat..it may not be quite as bad as first spike as we'll lock down sooner and folks are taking more precautions anyway, however its definitly coming, and anyone that cant see that has their head in the sand.
Agreed TP. What concerns me is that if/where there are flare-ups I don't trust the figures we are given and therefore the guidance is almost irrelevant.
stevextc - it's been reported that the incidence of CV19 in meat processing plants is due to the working environment being damp and cold which, apparently, is conducive to viral spread.
...environment being damp and cold which, apparently, is conducive to viral spread.
I am not looking forward to the next Scottish Winter.
I suspect the main reason we have not had a second wave spike in deaths is because a lot of people have been getting a good topup of their Vitamin D levels throughout most of the lockdown in name only, especially in England where Doris Cumston has been far too eager to open things back up again.
By and large, there has been a crazy amount of sunny, non-perstistant rainy days since late March.
Sufficient Vit D levels won't stop people from catching Covid-19, but it makes the consequences of becoming infected less serious, which is especially great news for the elderly and "ethnic minorities" (albeit the women of some religious groups may still be at high risk if very little of their skin is being exposed to the sun and they aren't taking Vit D supplements).
I think it's going to be all about long term immunity and how much of the population are carrying the virus once the sun strength drops around September, along with our international border policy.
tpbiker, apologies if I came across arsey in that, must've been crabbit that day! 🙁
I feel we're in a different situation up here, ScotGov aren't in the same rush to get pubs and haircuts sorted, our number are going the right way quicker than rUK, though not as quickly as NI, so I base judgements on whats happening here rather than where you are.
I don't see any huge 2nd waves anywhere else, smaller outbreaks as expected in some countries, I guess I'm maybe hoping as much as expecting. Fingers crossed.
stevextc – it’s been reported that the incidence of CV19 in meat processing plants is due to the working environment being damp and cold which, apparently, is conducive to viral spread.
Well, yes hence why they were tested but that doesn't mean focusing on some other trades might not reveal not too dissimilar numbers?
There are some other things to consider too, meat plants tend to have loud machinery, employees having to shout close to each other to be heard, and at the risk of being shot down, the folk I see walking to the Halls plant in town are either not very smart looking, or are out their tits.
Boris’s big reunion bash is on then 🙂
Can't quite get the logic that it's okay to open a pub, but not a gym. Pissed up folk are obviously easier to keep apart than folk looking to get a bit fitter, who knew?.
I feel we’re in a different situation up here, ScotGov aren’t in the same rush to get pubs and haircuts sorted, our number are going the right way quicker than rUK, though not as quickly as NI, so I base judgements on whats happening here rather than where you are.
I'm in scotland also! And yes I have far far more confidence in the Scottish government than Boris and his chums. And for that reason any second wave I'm sure will impact england more than us.
Novac Djokovic just tested positive, which isn't a great surprise given that he was in very close proximity to the other player that got it, and made no attempt to socially distance.
I think it would actually serve as a wake up call if someone like Djokovic really gets a bad dose. Obviously I don't want the guy to die, but in some ways a very fit guy, coming down with a really bad dose of the virus having basically brought it entirely upon themselves, may make other who think they are invincible think twice about things.
It a clear if folks don't take precautions and go back to 'normal' then well be back to square one pretty quickly.
When are we going to find out the results of the Oxford trials btw?
Aye, just read about Djokovic, he's been a bit of a voice for the anti lockdown brigade with some of his comments (I didn't realise til recently he's an anti-vaxxer), he's been left looking a right tool.
I’m in scotland also!
Sorry again! 🙂
It a clear if folks don’t take precautions and go back to ‘normal’ then well be back to square one pretty quickly.
Only if they let it rip thru the population uncontrolled again.
1m is actually Pretty Much normal tbh.
I was expecting them to say the ‘m’ Word but that seems a dirty word.
Aye, just read about Djokovic, he’s been a bit of a voice for the anti lockdown brigade with some of his comments (I didn’t realise til recently he’s an anti-vaxxer), he’s been left looking a right tool.
Some of our neighbours are anti-vaxxer idiots and alternate between saying that coronavirus is all a hoax or that it is to do with 5G towers. Mind you, they also think that you can cure cancer with herbal tea and all manner of other complete bollocks. We've just been staying well clear of them while they've been totally ignoring social distancing rules for the last 3 months.
I'm hoping Darwinism does its thing in cleansing the gene pool
Don't even know how to react to today's announcements. Obviously they were teasing the 1m and I thought that was stupid enough
Opening pubs again..
Absolute madness..
I'll be avoiding pubs etc for at least another month to see how this plays out.
Though tbf, a small local village pub has hot it's distancing sorted, and an online app to book to be registered/allowed in and for ordering/payment. Think I'd trust them rather than most of the places round here
Opening pubs again..
Absolute madness..
Much as I like a pint, I won't be rushing back. We all know that the city centre pubs will be rammed from day one like it's mad friday. The virus will start to spread again quietly and efficiently as it did before and there will be an explosion in a couple of months time requiring another lockdown. All because Boris couldn't resist being the hero who re-opened the pubs. He'll be even more indecisive the second time round, and it'll be more chaotic. Like Trump, he'll do anything for a bit of good news.
No more daily briefings of misinformation after today... Thank god for that, ~13 weeks too late!
Totally agree daz.
Is it a free for all or will there be some kind of rules ie limited numbers etc?
I just don't understand why anyone thinks opening pubs is a good idea. It's the one place I'd keep shut. And if that means pubs face financial ruin then maybe the government can look at some kind of fincial package
Either way, hopefully they won't reopen in scotland, and either way I won't be going anywhere near them for a while
No more daily briefings of misinformation after today… Thank god for that, ~13 weeks too late!
Got Covid Done.
Opening pubs again..
Absolute madness..
But it’s our patriotic duty.......
From today in Parliament
Gareth Johnson, a Conservative, asks Johnson to encourage people to “do their patriotic best for Britain” and go to the pub.
I’m not keen, especially as at the nearest, because of the layout, it would be impossible to be at even 1m spacing at the very narrow entrances to both the inside and outside spaces and no possibility of one way system
Like good consumers, we can place our trust in the market to decide our fate.
Much as I like a pint, I won’t be rushing back. We all know that the city centre pubs will be rammed from day one like it’s mad friday. The virus will start to spread again quietly and efficiently as it did before and there will be an explosion in a couple of months time requiring another lockdown. All because Boris couldn’t resist being the hero who re-opened the pubs. He’ll be even more indecisive the second time round, and it’ll be more chaotic. Like Trump, he’ll do anything for a bit of good news.
This.
My FB feed has filled with local cafes saying "It's great that Boris has said we can open from 4th July, but we'll carry on as takeaway only till we can reopen safely"
Mixed feelings about the end of briefings - it exposed their utter incompetence quite nicely
Mixed feelings about the end of briefings – it exposed their utter incompetence quite nicely
The end of briefings probably coincides neatly with government policy diverging from the point where any scientist is prepared to appear to defend it.
Pubs opening will lead to ER departments getting an influx of pissed up idiots spreading the virus around hospitals - brilliant idea...well done Boris
Well I wondered how the endgame was gonna play out, pubs open and run away.
I love me a pub. Just been in one that is being refurbed as I discussed promotional material with the owner.
I will definitely go there during the week at lunchtime / mid afternoon times.
Go there at the weekend or evenings? No way. The door team are already asking some questions about how they can do their job on a Thursday/Friday/Saturday nightBecause it will get messy.
Perhaps we could just open weatherspoon pubs and thin the heard of brexit supporters?
Still at Level 3, yeah?
Can’t quite get the logic that it’s okay to open a pub, but not a gym. Pissed up folk are obviously easier to keep apart than folk looking to get a bit fitter, who knew?.
Think of all the bodily fluids from the hundreds of sweaty bodies, on every surface.
And gyms are probably just as bad.
The way I see it, yes we're at level 3. July 4th is almost 2 weeks away. By that time, I'm guessing, based on the current trend, cases will have lowered further and we'll probably be at or close to level 2.
Boris has to give the places some notice before they can open, that's a lot of places that will need to get staff back off furlough, get measures in place for cleaning/1m seperation/staff protection etc etc.
If anything changes in the next 2 weeks it can be pulled.
Too much, too fast? Maybe. Too slow and the economy gets even more buggered. Lose/lose.
He's drawing his line. Before the 4th July, he'll plot some new points just to suit it.
Guess work will want us all back in the office then. Glad I've just bought some washable fabric masks.
Queues outside pubs as people wait for a free table, likely to be socially distant on a saturday night in town?
Can’t quite get the logic that it’s okay to open a pub, but not a gym. Pissed up folk are obviously easier to keep apart than folk looking to get a bit fitter, who knew?
It's difficult to maintain social distancing of any sort in a room full of people staring at themselves in the mirror 😉
Getting rid of the virus, getting kids safely back to school, letting businesses bring people back off of furlough and working together again safely... why aren't these priorities? If the cost is the government paying the wages and forgoing the tax receipts of pubs, restaurants and other places economically dependent on social gatherings, so be it... if they think pubs and the like are being hit hard now, what will happen to them if we keep the virus tickling along in the community? A lot of people will stay away... and without financial support from the government the pubs and restaurants will be unviable.
Get rid of the virus. Stamp on any new outbreaks. Get educating. Get working. Keep furlough (at 80%) for those working in social industries. Drink at home in small groups.
1m+, 1m+ what?
A lot of people will stay away…
Some will. Those who went walking in the Peak, then to the beach, and then McD's, and then Ikea and Primark; are itching to get back to the pub.
This is a perfectly reasonable decision by the govt. They are following "the Science" (Eugenics).
Not enough of you have been infecting your grannies or infirm siblings.
The herd must be [s]culled[/s] thinned, think of the money it will save the govt in welfare/pensions costs...
Maybe I'm naive but based on their results rather than their words, this has got to be a conspiracy - surely they can't be that incompetent?
Stay safe folks, use your own judgement, it's not worth the risk.
The best thing is Johnson continually claiming our "British common sense" will keep us safe... despite the fact he was hospitalised after relying on his own common sense, and that of his cabinet members and key scientific advisors.
There is enough advice out there internationally... read it and use it in the workplace and socially... Johnson's "get things done" attitude has a poor track record, to say the least.
Getting rid of the virus, getting kids safely back to school, letting businesses bring people back off of furlough and working together again safely… why aren’t these priorities? If the cost is the government paying the wages and forgoing the tax receipts of pubs, restaurants and other places economically dependent on social gatherings, so be it… if they think pubs and the like are being hit hard now, what will happen to them if we keep the virus tickling along in the community? A lot of people will stay away… and without financial support from the government the pubs and restaurants will be unviable.
Get rid of the virus. Stamp on any new outbreaks. Get educating. Get working. Keep furlough (at 80%) for those working in social industries. Drink at home in small groups.
100% agree with this. But unfortunately we are led by utter xxxxing morons
100% agree with this. But unfortunately we are led by utter cowardly xxxxing morons
LMFTFY 😉
Ah yes, British common sense in action - shudders.
The recent sunny weather has provided vit D top-ups which are possibly helping suppress the virus.
A combination of johnson's relaxation and a few weeks of damp weather will add to the existing risk if a second wave.
I won't be modifying my behaviour anytime soon.
Watching the briefing, It is noticeable that the two advisers are being much more cautious-Boris says we will defeat the virus, Whitty says it will be with us for a very long time
On Social distancing-Boris upbeat about the metre guidance, Whitty saying it should be 2 metres unless people take the ‘plus’ part very very seriously
So that's basically a free-for-all in England for July then.
Be interesting to see how Wales and Scotland respond as the English people will be wanting to go to these places for their holidays and long breaks (while on furlough). Sounds like the perfect recipe for spreading any virus still circulating to every part of the country by the end of the summer.
Going to make my own call on this: no pubs or restaurants. Outdoor activities only. Restrict myself to seeing close family and one or two friends per 2 week period. That way I can limit my exposure to any infected people and have a small list of people to contact if I do get it. Keeping to this until September at the earliest.
The summer is going to be one big social science experiment, we now live in a petri dish.
Think of all the bodily fluids from the hundreds of sweaty bodies, on every surface.
And gyms are probably just as bad.
Lol.
Too much, too fast? Maybe. Too slow and the economy gets even more buggered. Lose/lose.
Probably seeing us through to December, when they can blame the second wave on winter conditions.
Some will. Those who went walking in the Peak, then to the beach, and then McD’s, and then Ikea and Primark; are itching to get back to the pub.
2 of those really seem quite sensible IF you are more or less the only person there.
I’m just thinking of the strain on the NHS and emergency services when all the ****ing idiots get hammered on the 4th. Ambulance staff, police and nurses dealing with dickheads and A&E packed to the rafters.
And then again a couple of weeks later as the infections and hospital admissions increase after the inevitable shedding of inhibitions lubricated by alcohol.
Alcohol is a killer but now it has a new string to it’s bow.
No doubt in a months time the BBC will run an article about some punter who is in a hospital bed recovering, who is keen to warn others that they thought it was safe going to the pub and in hindsight it turned out not to be..
It doesn't require hindsight to know this is going to end badly. It's basic common sense.
Restaurants and cafes mixed on reopening. I read an article about one waiting because the potential of having to close again if they are alerted about a positive case having been on the premises (customer or staff) creates too much uncertainty and bigger business risk than reopening when the risk is genuinely lower and its more likely to be permanent.
This is where I don’t get the whole easing of lockdown ‘for the economy’ argument. Surely a later reopening when cases are properly lower increases the likelihood of a more stable recovery? At the moment we’re somewhere between the US (reopened before cases were sufficiently low and are now back on the rise) and Europe (reopened when cases v low and generally ok but with pockets of outbreaks) with our fingers crossed.
I heard a cafe owner on the radio making the point, that her regulars were looking forward to a relaxing coffee on a Sunday morning with a newspaper but she said that won't work. Customers staying for an hour and buying one coffee will ruin her, so takeaways are the only way for now.
And a local pub has already said there will be a minimum spend.
Not that it matters to me, I've no desire to do either of those things at the moment. I love my local pub and have bought beers from them over lockdown but I'm no rush to head back.
Clover
SubscriberThis is where I don’t get the whole easing of lockdown ‘for the economy’ argument. Surely a later reopening when cases are properly lower increases the likelihood of a more stable recovery?
Absolutely. And a fast, hard lockdown would have been better still. But when they were copying New Zealand's homework they got the two the wrong way round.
Why has Boris decided to let pubs reopen on the 4th? It's a Saturday so a natural night for people to go out and drink lots in pubs as they can have a lie in the next morning. Surely it would be far more sensible to let them open on a Monday or Tuesday where the numbers should be lower therefore more easily managed.
I have visions of hoardes hitting whatever's open like a New Year's Eve party. I hope I'm wrong and that the majority are sensible but I fear I may be right. Hopefully the weather that day will be horrid, wind and rain, so it keeps the crowds down.
I heard a cafe owner on the radio making the point, that her regulars were looking forward to a relaxing coffee on a Sunday morning with a newspaper but she said that won’t work. Customers staying for an hour and buying one coffee will ruin her, so takeaways are the only way for now.
And a local pub has already said there will be a minimum spend.
Yep, people still haven't cottoned on to the idea that it's not a return to the old normal the second everything opens. We have to find a new normal for the forseeable, same as limited numbers in supermarkets are now normal.
Sorry guys, not been keeping up with the thread. Am I correct in assuming the chosen date of 4th July has the usual BS Tory/ faintly brexity significance?...
Anyway, I sure as hell won't be going to the pub etc.
I avoid all "inside" scenarios other than chemist and occasional co-op shop. When I do those I wear ffp3 mask and I'm fastidious with not touching face etc etc
That behaviour isn't going to change no matter what the government advice is.
Why has Boris decided to let pubs reopen on the 4th? It’s a Saturday so a natural night for people to go out and drink lots in pubs as they can have a lie in the next morning.
You really fell for the fantasy that they’d u-turned on their ‘herd-immunity‘ experiment?
Also - American Independence Day. Perfectly timed National psych-alignment strategy by the usual suspect? It’ll be like Europe never happened (except for it Having being another war we British won!) Up yours, EU! We’re blowing our own Trump-et now...!’
Virus???
We’ll defeat it on the Nation’s beaches!
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We’ll defeat it in the National pubs!
And if by any chance it all goes tits up, we’ll get the NHS clappers back out. Our girls and boys on the front line are rearing to go.
But on other hand, if you are stuck in a bedsit flat with no garden in some inner city suburb, the chance to get out in the sun, even in those circumstances, is probably quite appealing.
My grandparents (and parents) used to go to the British Countryside. Often hop-picking or fruit-picking. Or picnics on shorter trips.
I tried it and liked it. They may have been on to something...
I reckon people could give unnecessary travel a miss just this year, find a field with an icebox? Play some family games? Frisbee? French cricket? Bit of cycle-touring? Treasure-hunt? Water-pistols and strawberries? No? Gods, I’m old.
The daily briefing was hurting them so that really had to go.
The weekend ‘victory’ celebrations are A terrible Idea but this a government that lost control of the situation fast and are attempting to take back control.
Operation shove under the carpet begins and how well we managed it begins.
Last week US ten states experienced record-high rates of daily infection, including states like Florida, Arizona, Alabama, and Texas, where Republican governors insisted on loosening lockdowns early. But we're British, it won't be anything like that here, oh no.
Maybe July 4th will go down in history not only as a celebration of when the USA defeated the UK govt but also the day the CV-19 did the same.
Does this mean the Science community is starting to distance itself from what Boris is doing?
UK must prepare for second virus wave - health leaders
Now they don't have the daily briefings to air their views are we going to see more direct stories that don't hold back from calling a spade a spade? I hope so as we need to know the full picture every step of the way now to avoid issues this winter.
Maybe July 4th will go down in history not only as a celebration of when the USA defeated the UK govt but also the day the CV-19 did the same.
"Dependence Day"?
“Dependence Day”?
Chapeau.
Benidorm, brace your beaches...2020 is not over yet. We’ll defeat this virus. Stay alert.
Stephen Reicher, a psychology professor and member of SPI-B, the Sage subcommittee advising the government on behavioural issues:
The only thing worse than not having a functional test and trace system is not admitting to not having a functional test and trace system. That way you won't improve and you will make premature decisions to relax restrictions. Which, of course, is what has just happened.
https://twitter.com/ReicherStephen/status/1275761057424949248
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/jun/24/boris-johnson-ease-lockdown-england
Don’t know if it’s true or not but all of the papers are reporting that UK ministers are creating new ‘air bridges’ so that we can quickly and safely go abroad to Spain and The Caribbean without troublesome quarantines. This has to be a firm signal that the UK government has a firm hand on this Covid19 business. Wonder if it is a super-bridge like the one the PM had planned for London? Maybe the cycle superhighway could be resurrected and now be a superairbridgecycleway?
I like the idea of ‘bridges’ because air-pollution is a thing and during lockdown while it lasted nature seemed to get a brief breather.
(How an airbridge might look)
I'm hoping I can get a tech guy over from Germany sharpish without having to go through the pointless 14 days.
It Would appear to be kicking off everywhere again looking at the news from Germany USA Portugal etc
Dare no one mention the BLM protest effect?
The timing would seem to fit 🙄
Are we at 2.5 on the Bozzometer? Give or take?
Dare no one mention the BLM protest effect?
No BLM protests out here in semi-rural Yorkshire. Everyone has mixing since the hint was dropped in all the papers that they might as well...
Do the local flare ups in the countries you mention map onto protests, or employers failing at social distancing, and people enjoying bars and restaurants?
(How an airbridge might look)
Is that a mockup of Johnson's bridge to Northern Island?
Are we at 2.5 on the Bozzometer?
Ask the members of Joint Biosecurity Centre (JBC)... they are supposed to be setting it, according to Johnson. Who are they...?