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There’s an economic cost/benefit to pretty much everything. It’s helpful for the people in charge to determine how important it is.
Unfortunately there are certain types of people who post on STW who actually find it mildly amusing that certain people will die as a result of this virus. Hate filled scum bags.
Then they shouldn't have voted in such a way that we only have what - 15 ECMO machines for the whole ****ing country?
You reap what you sow. The flooding, the lack of preparedness for a 1918 style pandemic and the farmers all getting ****ed over by their own beloved Tories is all a result of the "I'm alright Jack" attitude that is prevalent in this country.
“I’m alright Jack” attitude that is prevalent in this country.
& your callousness to other people dying of coronavirus is in no way symptomatic of that attitude?
Unfortunately there are certain types of people who post on STW who actually find it mildly amusing that certain people will die as a result of this virus.
Not when it comes to people who've voted Tory and tax-cuts for years and years and suddenly go all snow-flakey when the NHS has been cut-back so deeply it has zero-resilience to a pandemic which has been on the national security risk register for decades.
Unfortunately I dont think this is something you can prepare for you just try and get through. Personally I think not having any slack in the system is going to hurt us. The problems also likely to arrive from having people moving into new roles or not having the experience (read judgement and wisdom) to deal with new and left field situations. Back to foot and mouth - there were problems at the start because no one had a handle on managing the cleaning contractors.
Shall we at least try not to take chunks out of each other on the politics and voting?
Looks like we've got a case in our neck of the woods now (Ilkley). She sensibly took herself directly into LGI early last week with her flu-like symptoms as well.
I don't want lots of older people, and those with underlying health conditions to die prematurely because of a possible pandemic. My parents tick both boxes.
But I can see that if it happens, then there will be potential knock on effects to pensions, housing, social care etc. Not sure that makes me a monster.
Though there could also be more people left alive with resultant health issues that may mean none of these changes will result in any sort of overall "saving" or "benefit"
If you want to bring people’s voting preferences into this thread then please go elsewhere. The virus doesn’t care how you voted.
Am I the same species as people who think about life in these terms?
Actuaries are brilliant, though perhaps not inclined to sentiment. My favourite one liner, delivered quite unconsciously by a guy advising on social care policy: "the only reason people living longer is such a problem, is interest rates are so low..."
(Not going to kick that to death by explaining.)
She sensibly took herself directly into LGI early last week with her flu-like symptoms as well.
Not sure if that's meant as irony? What I hear is she did as advised by 111 and was tested in the car park at lgi. This was on return from N Italy.
I think it's fair to point out that a decade of austerity & the NHS suffering it's worst ever staffing crisis & importantly decimating funding for social care, meaning 1000s of hospital beds are blocked, have left the country with absolutely no extra capacity for a pandemic like this.
The government have been incredibly lucky that we have had a mild winter and regular flu hasn't surged the way it can, because bed shortages are dire, urgent cancer operations are regularly cancelled due to staff shortages & lack of intensive care beds. (It effects my job, this year not the worst I've seen for cancelled ops, but only just)
And yes governments can prepare for this sort of thing but fact is, the 20,000 extra civil servants we've hired since summer 2016 & pretty much all of government have been focused on one thing & it's not disease prevention/containment.
Anyways I'm not sure that the government's plan to enlist a dad's army of retired doctors & nurses is anything short of bonkers. Mortality rate is much higher in older people , even those without existing health problems.
https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lanres/article/PIIS2213-2600(20)30079-5/fulltext
Can't see many ex doctors coming out of retirement for something that's far likelier to kill them than someone younger & healthier.
We're in a dire situation tbh, i wonder if the government still has that stockpile of body bags ?
I saw on twitter (stating BBC R4 source but I am not sure if true) that Matt Hancock had been told not to come to the Cobra meeting today, now I know he's a bit of a tool, but you'd have thoguht as Health Sec it would be worth him being then.
I think they are rubbing their hands that this is a Brexit damage get-out-of-jail-free card.
The actuarial dept at my old place of work was known as Sea World and the actuaries known as The Dolphins
Very intelligent but almost impossible to communicate with.
The virus doesn’t care how you voted.
Maybe not, but those most at risk of dying from it (older people) are most likely to be Tory voters.
And while I hate tories and the people that vote for them I don't want any of them to die (okay some of the cabinet if you twist my arm)
I saw on twitter (stating BBC R4 source but I am not sure if true)
Turns out it wasnt true, just seen picture of him goin into meeting.. of cousehe could just be there to fetch the tea and biscuits gin
A major property event called mipim which is heald in Cannes has been postponed, it is the largest event of the year and thousands of brits go. Major cost (flights & hotels not refunded etc) and some small businessess might not recover. It seems the economic hit will be massive, also talk of the Australian gp being cancelled (chinese has already) so who knows where this will stop.
Mixed bag of emotions today in regards to the Coronavirus.
On one hand Mike Pence has wound up the mighty machine that is the US to combat it, with a Prayer, so that's that sorted then.
On the other, a client I know and trust as a real smart Cookie has ordered up a large batch of Laptops and building processes for remote work. It's seems a large scale outbreak is a 'when not if' thing and even if they don't advise large groups of people to self-isolate, there's been so much talk about schools closing it's likely to be the first thing done when it comes meaning a lot of his staff won't be coming in anyway.
It's obviously coming, possibly already here far more widespread than we realise. Parents are in the at risk group and having stuck my head in the sand when they've offered to go through their wills and prepaid funeral plans with me, I'm suddenly thinking o maybe should at least know where they've hidden the paperwork.
I see the Mail is being hysterically classy with it's headline today🙄
& importantly decimating funding for social care
This is going to be a massive issue. Mrs Daz is a social worker who spends a lot of time in care homes and has had multiple conversation with careworkers who have told her the whole thing will collapse very easily. If they don't go into work due to self-isolation, they don't get paid so there's a very high chance of infections from workers who don't want to lose money. If they do take time off, who's going to look after the residents?
On one hand Mike Pence has wound up the mighty machine that is the US to combat it, with a Prayer, so that’s that sorted then.
The USG appears to be making a total hash of this, and a small ray of sunshine might be that come the election, the US electorate remembers.
I think they are rubbing their hands that this is a Brexit damage get-out-of-jail-free card.
Maybe, maybe not. If they've got any sense they'll use Corona as an excuse to extend the extension while pausing the trade negs.
If.
Most elderly people I know (70 to 90+) seem remarkable unfazed by their impending doom.
But I'm still quite shocked posters on this thread can make massive assumptions about older folk and show apparent glee that they are all going to die.
If anyone who thinks that a decade of austerity, cuts to the NHS, failure to address social care and a hostile environment to immigration are not going to have an impact on the way that the country responds to this then they're living in la-la land as each and every one of those issues lies entirely at the doorstep of a succession of Tory governments.
Unless the plan is to mobilise the 8.5m non-working people to mop the brows of the fever-ridden patients, screen suspected carriers and undertake a deep-clean of any contaminated buildings?
Someone on the news just said people in the UK might be asked to reduce their interaction with others *outside* of going to work and school! That's going to go down well.
Can’t see many ex doctors coming out of retirement for something that’s far likelier to kill them than someone younger & healthier.
doctors in work have noted that if they kill off all the retired NHS staff the NHS pensions fund gets out of a sticky situation
Im cynical enough to believe that Dom Cummings would factor that in to his plans
I'm not exactly following every new news item on this but my impression is since it's the run up to SATS the general idea is to wait until schools become infected then send the kids home to spread the virus to families who then take it to work to spread to a new family to infect a new school.
40% of my daughter's primary school are absent this morning.. all have similar symptoms of sore throat / cough / temperature..
Currently sat on the Eurostar to Lille, email comes in from company, all business travel suspended,use Skype instead. Was looking forwards to going back to Warsaw in a couple of weeks, oh well, will save some money and CO2 I guess.
Maybe the next few months will be the time of realisation for a lot of companies that putting bodies onto expensive planes and trains to go to meetings can actually be avoided in quite a few cases.
I think Corona + climate change combined will be the end of a few airlines, and might completely change human behaviour towards travel.
Corona + climate change
Might be nature's way of keeping us in check.
This is my third week of no work thanks to the virus. Lots of events and exhibitions have either been cancelled or postponed.
I also had a job lined up (that I need for the citizenship), but that's not going to happen this month as the company is also suffering. There's lots of apprehension out there.
Our place (which is normally a paragon of sensible behaviour) had a town hall this morning to discuss it. I opted to attend via Skype. 🙂
of my daughter’s primary school are absent this morning.. all have similar symptoms of sore throat / cough / temperature..
Normal class size of 30+ pupils?
and show apparent glee that they are all going to die
Not seeing any genuine glee, bar a few Tory haterz who I suspect didn't really mean it
We were all issued with hand sanitizer gels and pumps this morning, told to use them every hour and that they can be refilled at the end of the shift. Have noticed a lot of customers are doing the same thing, making delivery drivers use them before entering the building etc.
We've also been told that there will be screening by the end of the week as my colleagues in Swansea have been in contact with the case there, as we tend to share staff at times they're screening all of the South Wales workers. Be interesting to see if anything is found.
My work has also just announced restrictions on international travel.
Anyone travelling internationally needs Senior VP approval or their trip will be cancelled.
Seems sensible to be fair, not sure what difference it will actually make in the longer term though.
of my daughter’s primary school are absent this morning.. all have similar symptoms of sore throat / cough / temperature..
Normal class size of 30+ pupils
With Internet access and a [runny] nose for two weeks off school?
That's not what was said.
Even in the part you quoted it explicitly states they don’t want that to happen
It's just like any sentence starting "I'm not a racist, but......."
It’s just like any sentence starting “I’m not a racist, but…….”
You really shouldn't go around calling people racist.
Do you see what I did there?
So after all the media hype of the U.K. closing down the message from the government is.
Do you see what I did there?
tried to be clever?
Do you see what I did there?
tried to be clever?
No, if they were being clever they'd have simply asked what alternative you propose to the cycle of death and birth.
Anyone else on STW come down with any lurgy recently?
I don't feel like I'm about to die, but I've felt a bit under the weather for a week, so much so I felt it was prudent to abandon my Zwift TT-Tune workplan final week after last Tuesday's session. Felt quite fatigued after last Wed's shift including cycle commuting, only exercise I've done since was a really gentle turbo ride on Fri.
Ordinarily, I would have expected to have done a workout and/or short Zwift races most days since Weds. I've done so little (which is very annoying for a quite rare "long weekend" off work), I've no idea what my body will make of a delivery shift, If I go in tomorrow.
Feels mostly like a head cold, started with very mild sore throat, achey limbs. Chest felt a bit "tight" when I increased my effort for a bit during that Fri ride, today it feels a bit tight just sitting round on pc.
Can't decide whether to do the unusual step of ringing work before they finish today, to see if others in delivery depot have come down with anything and if there's any known link to COVID19. There doesn't seem to be any confirmed cases in Southampton in the media, but some out towards Romsey.
Anyone else on STW come down with any lurgy recently?
I’m currently laid up with the sniffles, I have no temperature so I think I will be ok.
Most large scale health crisis do disproportionately affect the poor, and a lot of the poverty we have in the UK is an unintended consequence of an ageing population with their huge property wealth and triple-locked, non means tested benefits.
But exterminate the poor via a virus & the whole problem goes away. You are, with respect, missing the point slightly. Anticipating positively the eradication of a certain sector of society, for whatever reason, isn’t really a sign of a nice human being.
Anyone else on STW come down with any lurgy recently?
I've had an on-off cold for about a month now. It's definitely not anything else, although I have no doubt that it's already out there, looking at what's happened in Italy. I'm really hoping this cold clears up before I catch this thing though. Think I'll be working from home and avoiding trains as much as possible for the forseeable.
@n0b0dy0ftheg0at I'd ring them. under normal circumstances I'd call you a big jessy but in the present environment I'd make it your employer's decision, especially if you're delivering to other sites.
Oh but, yeah, big girls blouse, get on with it.
Anticipating positively the eradication of a certain sector of society, for whatever reason, isn’t really a sign of a nice human being.
Which is why certain members of our tory government will be modelling that exact scenario.
Im more worried about the new emergency powers that will be brought in over the next few weeks, you can bet your arse that they will have very little to do with control over a viral threat
oldagedpredator
Unfortunately I dont think this is something you can prepare for you...
Tha Australian govt did.
"Australia has secretly hoarded $100million worth of medical supplies in case of a pandemic and the stockpile is now being deployed for the coronavirus.
The federal Health Department's National Medical Stockpile contains 20 million single-use face masks, antibiotics and pallets of hand sanitiser accumulated over a decade.
The stockpile is kept in various top secret strategic locations, the Health Department says on its website." (from Daily Mail Australia 29/2/20)
Anyone else on STW come down with any lurgy recently?
There’s been some nasty colds going around since before Xmas and the seasonal flu but as you’re reading about killer viruses you’re noticing you’ve got a bit of a sniffle.
But wouldn’t it have been so much better if the virus only infected poor people/ the unemployed.
I'd rather it just infected the stupid.
Anyone else on STW come down with any lurgy recently?
Yep for a bit more than a week, head cold, cough, headache, sneezy and snotty though, no temperature.
I’d rather it just infected the stupid.
You after some time off 😉
This warning is also circulating in Oz. (I don't know how accurate it is)
IMPORTANT ANNOUNCEMENT - CORONAVIRUS
1. If you have a runny nose and sputum, you have a common cold.
2. Coronavirus pneumonia is a dry cough with no runny nose.
3. This new virus is not heat-resistant and will be killed by a temperature of just 26/27 degrees. It hates the Sun.
4. If someone sneezes with it, it takes about 10 feet before it drops to
the ground and is no longer airborne.
5. If it drops on a metal surface it will live for at least 12 hours - so
if you come into contact with any metal surface - wash your hands as soon
as you can with a bacterial soap.
6. On fabric it can survive for 6-12 hours. normal laundry detergent will
kill it.
7. Drinking warm water is effective for all viruses. Try not to drink
liquids with ice.
8. Wash your hands frequently as the virus can only live on your hands for
5-10 minutes, but - a lot can happen during that time - you can rub your
eyes, pick your nose unwittingly and so on.
9. You should also gargle as a prevention. A simple solution of salt in
warm water will suffice.
10. Can't emphasise enough - drink plenty of water!
THE SYMPTOMS
1. It will first infect the throat, so you'll have a sore throat lasting
3/4 days
2. The virus then blends into a nasal fluid that enters the
trachea and then the lungs, causing pneumonia. This takes about 5/6 days
further.
3. With the pneumonia comes high fever and difficulty in breathing.
4. The nasal congestion is not like the normal kind. You feel like you're
drowning. It's imperative you then seek immediate attention.
P-jay
...and a lot of the poverty we have in the UK is an unintended consequence of an ageing population with their huge property wealth and triple-locked, non means tested benefits.
You have mentioned this quite a bit.
It really does sound like the thin edge of a hate envy wedge.
Anticipating positively the eradication of a certain sector of society, for whatever reason, isn’t really a sign of a nice human being.
I guess I'm not very nice then.
This new virus is not heat-resistant and will be killed by a temperature of just 26/27 degrees. It hates the Sun.
I have a sneaky suspicion the temperature inside our bodies is higher than 26/27 degrees.
Also, 9 days is quoted on various sites as the 'outside body survival time' for coronavirus.
Apologies if this has been asked/answered over the past few hundred posts, but I haven't checked for myself.
So, so far one Formula 1 race is off, others are at risk. One of the Six Nations games has been cancelled, the rest of the competition is in doubt. The UAE bike race, the Paris marathon and the Qatar Moto GP have been cancelled.
Is anyone willing to wager on this being worry-mongering, or is it the first few flakes of snow before an avalanche of large-event cancellations world-wide?
You see I've signed up to the Etape du Tour in France in July and want to know whether or not to bother training.
I don’t know how accurate it is
Not very.
You see I’ve signed up to the Etape du Tour in France in July and want to know whether or not to bother training.
Train anyway why wouldn’t you?
You see I’ve signed up to the Etape du Tour in France in July and want to know whether or not to bother training.
Train. By July either it'll have turned out to be the millennium bug all over again and the race will be going on as normal whilst the media makes from page news of Bozza's baby name, or the world will be a downward spiral of loo rollessness and food riots and you'll be glad of any advantage you've got.
(my money is on the first)
So, so far one Formula 1 race is off, others are at risk. One of the Six Nations games has been cancelled, the rest of the competition is in doubt. The UAE bike race, the Paris marathon and the Qatar Moto GP have been cancelled.
Is anyone willing to wager on this being worry-mongering, or is it the first few flakes of snow before an avalanche of large-event cancellations world-wide?
I'm sure this will be something driven by Lawyers and Insurance brokers more than Medics, but you can see the sense of it.
Thousands of people in close proximity it only need one Dick from Wuhan / Lombardi etc with 'just a cold' to attend and they might infect a dozen, 2 dozen, a hundred people or whatever and they spend the next 2 weeks spreading it to every corner of the world they came from for 2 weeks before they see any symptoms.
It was in the back of my mind when I was at a 6 nations game last weekend, 70+k people in the Stadium, thousands more in the pubs and bars to join the atmosphere all in very close proximity,
Yep train - best place to be is out on your own away from people coughing and sneezing on you. Plus increased fitness is likely to help if you do contract it. And every hour out on the bike is away from the doom mongers in the media so your mental outlook will be better.
IMPORTANT ANNOUNCEMENT – CORONAVIRUS
1. If you have a runny nose and sputum, you have a common cold.
LOL what crap.
Other commonly implicated viruses include human coronavirus (≈ 15%),[31][32] influenza viruses (10–15%),[33] adenoviruses (5%),[33] human respiratory syncytial virus (orthopneumovirus), enteroviruses other than rhinoviruses, human parainfluenza viruses, and human metapneumovirus.[34] Frequently more than one virus is present.[35] In total over 200 viral types are associated with colds.[3]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Common_cold
CDC, Livescience, New Scientist - all report that some cases include more classical cold symptoms such as runny noses.
oldagedpredator
Unfortunately I dont think this is something you can prepare for you…Tha Australian govt did.
“Australia has secretly hoarded $100million worth of medical supplies in case of a pandemic and the stockpile is now being deployed for the coronavirus.
The federal Health Department’s National Medical Stockpile contains 20 million single-use face masks, antibiotics and pallets of hand sanitiser accumulated over a decade.
The stockpile is kept in various top secret strategic locations, the Health Department says on its website.” (from Daily Mail Australia 29/2/20)
Well the Oz population is 25 million, so most people get one go on a face mask and the rest can just take their chances.
Lots of hand sanitizer, handy but soap is ok too.
Antibiotics.... It's a virus.
That's $100 million well spent 👌
The stockpiling will mostly be for frontline personnel. That is remarkably organised of the Auddies, wonder if we've done the same, likely not.
Going to Eurodisney at the start of April, Jam packed with 40,000 + kids and parents from all over Europe and beyond all hugging Mickey Mouse et al. What could possibly go wrong?
dazh
Subscriber
& importantly decimating funding for social careThis is going to be a massive issue. Mrs Daz is a social worker who spends a lot of time in care homes and has had multiple conversation with careworkers who have told her the whole thing will collapse very easily. If they don’t go into work due to self-isolation, they don’t get paid so there’s a very high chance of infections from workers who don’t want to lose money. If they do take time off, who’s going to look after the residents?
If your wife is really a social worker then I am very surprised she needed to talk to careworkers to actually know how precarious the whole social care structure is .. there was a recent big care provider that went into administration that cleanly identified that.
Also - its a shame the Brexit thread regulars have showed up on here. How they can make excuses for Raybanwomble just demonstrates they hold similar twisted views and opinions. Anybody who states they would be mildly amused if somebody dies from this coronavirus is clearly sick in the head.
Going to Eurodisney at the start of April, Jam packed with 40,000 + kids and parents from all over Europe and beyond all hugging Mickey Mouse et al. What could possibly go wrong?
Jeez any one of them could be carrying the virus. It's a small world after all.
Seeing as what I posted up there isn't right, can someone post a corrected version?
Or do we rely on?
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Antibiotics…. It’s a virus.
Which can lead to pneumonia that one of the treatments is antibiotics.
Seeing as what I posted up there isn’t right, can someone post a corrected version?
There’s a tonne of info out there without the Facebook OMG share this rubbish.
There's a difference between anticipating a possible outcome and eagerly awaiting it.
Not totally convinced by that Aussie advice. Especially the symptoms bit which seems to read "Step 2 - you will get pneumonia and die"
Mickey Mouse et al. What could possibly go wrong?
You'll be fine, it's bat's and pangolins that are the risk. Mice is hanta virus.
So after 9 years of working from home, I'm due to move into an office/workshop this week just as everyone else is being asked to work from home.
On a related note, it will take just one Corona carrying person using the London Underground at rush hour and the genie will be well and truly out of the bottle.
But exterminate the poor via a virus & the whole problem goes away.
More likely to solve the pension crisis, I think.
Not totally convinced by that Aussie advice.
I don’t think it’s official advice.
40% of my daughter’s primary school are absent this morning.. all have similar symptoms of sore throat / cough / temperature..
Normal class size of 30+ pupils?
67 kids in the school. 26 arent in school today.
LEA apparently not worried as there's been no contact / link with another confirmed case.
I am very surprised she needed to talk to careworkers
She didn't need to, she just did FFS. Next time she offers me some information based on her experience I'll tell her she's a thicko and should already have known.
its a shame the Brexit thread regulars have showed up on here.
Brexit is an expression of the self-important entitlement we have in this country. The bubble needs bursting, and if coronavirus is the means to do that then it's probably no bad thing. You never know, as a civilisation we might just come out of this with a more humble outlook on life, nature, and the world around us. I very much doubt it though.