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All ships asked to come alongside ahead of an announcement. Not going bump, are they?
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-60779001
certainly not looking good.
Was just about to post this. Hope they're not going bust, they've already stopped the over night from Zeebrugge that we used most years.
Not looking good though....
We're booked to go Hull to Rotterdam next month. I've been trying to change our car reg with no luck and Twitter has been full of people struggling with various issues.
Yeah we've got a Rotterdam to Hull return crossing (going out via tunnel) booked for next month as well.
P&O stating they're not going bust, so could be annoucing a takeover. Or maybe they're part owned by russians...
Folding obviously fuel cost have pushed them too far
P&O stating they’re not going bust, so could be annoucing a takeover.
You don't stop your ferries to announce a takeover
Folding obviously fuel cost have pushed them too far
No - apparently fired all staff with immediate effect and had replacement agency staff waiting on the dock. Suspect that is more legal in shipping than normal land based jobs but I'd be amazed if the MCGA and port authorities were OK with it - how do you prove the agency staff are competent on that particular ferry? how do you find people with the right pilot certificates who are up-to-date etc? and all synchronised so they are waiting to walk on as the old staff walk off.
Hope they have a bunch of lock smiths on hand too as I imagine a lot of people forgot to put the keys back for various cupboards as they walked off.
No – apparently fired all staff with immediate effect and had replacement agency staff waiting on the dock. Suspect that is more legal in shipping than normal land based jobs but I’d be amazed if the MCGA and port authorities were OK with it – how do you prove the agency staff are competent on that particular ferry? how do you find people with the right pilot certificates who are up-to-date etc? and all synchronised so they are waiting to walk on as the old staff walk off.
yep looks like it
https://news.sky.com/story/p-o-ferries-suspends-all-sailings-ahead-of-major-announcement-12568327
has the backing of Dubai-based DP World
Appropriately sounds like a specialist magazine.. as it sounds like the staff are about to get shafted.
If true about the sackings, that stinks. I'm not a habitual ferry user, but definitely won't be using them again if this comes to pass!
sounds like a specialist magazine
Indeed, Dubious Practices World. (right?)
I read that as DrP World.
Hope they have a bunch of lock smiths on hand too as I imagine a lot of people forgot to put the keys back for various cupboards as they walked off.
I wonder if any replacement staff know how to hot wire a ferry...
If true about the sackings, that stinks. I’m not a habitual ferry user, but definitely won’t be using them again if this comes to pass!
And a big +1 to that. We've done the Hull-Zeebrugge/Rotterdam crossing quite a bit, being northerners. But not again if the above comes to pass.
No confirmation re agency staff at the port.
Question asked in HoC; shapps had no answer.
Bad news. Being self-centred I'm just glad we're booked for the tunnel next week.
Stage 2 of BREXIT?
Stop all people going to and from Europe while the UK sails off into the sunset of nostalgic insignificance?
Suspect that is more legal in shipping than normal land based jobs but I’d be amazed if the MCGA and port authorities were OK with it – how do you prove the agency staff are competent on that particular ferry? how do you find people with the right pilot certificates who are up-to-date etc? and all synchronised so they are waiting to walk on as the old staff walk off
As long as the ship itself has all it's certification in place, the crew just need the internationally recognised certification for their position on the ship. They might never of sailed on any ferry ever before but it would still be legal.
It's also very possible that they have retained some of the key positions on a new contract, Master, Chief Engineer, etc.
Their insurance company might not be happy mind.
If true about the sackings, that stinks. I’m not a habitual ferry user, but definitely won’t be using them again if this comes to pass!
Not the first and definitely not the last shipping company to do this.
Missed opportunity: I've not one outlet/person wording it as querying if P&O are staying 'afloat'.
Too poor taste given the potential for job losses perhaps.
If that's true I (quite rightly) can't see the staff simply walking off [ship] with a cheery wave so it won't happen quickly that's going to be a lot of goods not being landed in the UK whilst resolved and a lot of that will be food.
This is going to hurt a lot wider than just the immediate impact on P&O staff at a time when a huge percentage of people simply will not be able to afford it.
The union has told the staff to stay on board when they dock.
How is that legal? Don't they need to do consultations on redundency etc?
83,000 members in the RMT. I can see this spilling over into other transport sectors pretty quickly.
15% of all freight cargo in and out of the UK handled by P&O, meaning we’re dependent on them, but equally they will be dependent on our international trade.
I wonder how much Brexit (eg less trade, but also Irish trade going direct and avoiding GB), C-19 and our government’s inability to organise customs properly will have affected their core business. That 15% will be heavily biased to GB-EU trade, not container ships from China.
If true about the sackings, that stinks. I’m not a habitual ferry user, but definitely won’t be using them again if this comes to pass!
Sadly I suspect that public with a conscience make up a small proportion of their revenue so they don't really care. Freight and people buying on price/convenience are likely their key customers - not sure the people unable to sail today will be too chuffed but they'll get over it if the alternative is a longer journey or higher price every time.
As long as the ship itself has all it’s certification in place, the crew just need the internationally recognised certification for their position on the ship. They might never of sailed on any ferry ever before but it would still be legal.
so no experience loading a vehicle ferry? even if they can do it legally and safely they will have huge disruption - based on my experience on Calmac they quickly squeezing maximum vehicles into minimum space often with nervous drivers is an art.
surely before running with passengers they need to run through emergency drills on that vessel, the need to understand how it handles in different conditions, how it responds to being loaded etc - different if you change 10% of the crew when you can wait till the next routine evacuation drill, man overboard, etc - but will their classification society really let them change all the crew with no actual experience on that vessel?
It’s also very possible that they have retained some of the key positions on a new contract, Master, Chief Engineer, etc.
The bastion of reliable news, Twitter, says all officers and ratings. I'm not sure which would be more surprising - that you could find enough officers with the right pilotage exemption certificates just sitting around, willing to work for significantly* less money, and without this plan leaking out, or that some senior officers would be willing to stay and let their entire team go (whether that be for safety or political reasons).
*its only worth doing something as dramatic as this if its for a substantial saving.
The (separate) company which owns P&O Cruises probably needs to think about an urgent rebrand.
Dubai-us Practices World owns one of the largest container ports in the UK on the Thames, so if this spills over it could be interesting.
Staff sit-ins sound like a thing.
https://twitter.com/KarlTurnerMP/status/1504440641966727171?s=20&t=CZK8xLd7fdZyXOaCmeOFIw
Yeah, I was wondering who has the power to 'evict' in this situation. I think I'd anchor up down the coast a bit, break open the stockroom and prepare for negotiations.
No – apparently fired all staff with immediate effect and had replacement agency staff waiting on the dock. Suspect that is more legal in shipping than normal land based jobs but I’d be amazed if the MCGA and port authorities were OK with it – how do you prove the agency staff are competent on that particular ferry? how do you find people with the right pilot certificates who are up-to-date etc? and all synchronised so they are waiting to walk on as the old staff walk off.
I've read, Twitter again that P&O are going to 'Fire and Rehire' all their staff. How true I don't know, but no one ever saved money by using agency staff.
I really don't understand how 'Fire and Rehire' works, or indeed how it's legal! If you fire a single employee without reason, you end up in a tribunal, if you need to let a lot of staff go, you have to pay them redundancy, or you end up in a tribunal, but it seems you can fire your entire workforce without penalty, as long as you offer them the same job back on worse terms. It's bullshit really.
BBC have just announced P&O have made 800 redundancies and there are (unsubstantiated) stories of coachloads of agency workers sat on the dockside ready to board the boats.
The Unions have told the now redundant workers to stay on the boats
The last piece of news I remember reading about P&O was that they were providing free ferry trips for vehicles taking humanitarian supplies to Ukraine. This had them firmly on my "decent company" list - might be necessary to revise that.
I think I’d anchor up down the coast a bit,
I think I'd sit at the terminal I was supposed to be at, blocking access, and refusing to load or unload whilst P&O get billed for the obstruction.
How much per day was evergiven?
How is that legal? Don’t they need to do consultations on redundency etc?
And TUPE rights as well, designed to protect staff when the business continues after a takeover.
How is that legal? Don’t they need to do consultations on redundency etc?
not sure that normal employment law applies to merchant ships!
The Tories probably see the lack of employment rights for merchant seamen as a fine template for the rest of us in our new 'Global Britain'. It will keep workers on their toes if they know they can look out of the window at any time and see a busload of replacements roll up.
The Tories probably see the lack of employment rights for merchant seamen as a fine template for the rest of us in our new ‘Global Britain’. It will keep workers on their toes if they know they can look out of the window at any time and see a busload of replacements roll up.
A good example of the dynamic and flexible world beating British workforce post Brexit. We can all be very proud.
A mate from my town in galloway is chief navigation officer for the cairnryan ferry and from what he's told me this has been bubbling under for a while, he's done his captains ticket but dunno if he's actually captain yet?. Not going to say much else as DP world are a shower of ****s and are quite happy to pay hundreds of millions to shareholders but treat their staff with utter disdain and it wouldn't be past them (with what I've been told) to use any excuse to turf anyone out without due cause.
It will keep workers on their toes if they know they can look out of the window at any time and see a busload of replacements roll up.
Any chance we can test this theory on the current cabinet?
Any chance we can test this theory 9n the current cabinet?
I used the word 'workers', this doesn't include those who class a chat over cheese and wine as work.
I do feel this is an opportunity for Chris Grayling's deep knowledge of the ferry industry to prove its worth, though.
It's utterly shocking.
I'd never realised that ships operating out of the UK had different employment laws - just assumed that the employers chose UK law. Every day is a school day.
Presumably explains why there are unions around the sector, but who on earth regulates labour law and disputes in maritime cases? Do the employers choose the jurisdiction like they do their flags of convenience? So are the P&O guys stuck with some Monrovian boiler plate employment contract?
It gets worse. Apparently there are coach loads of contract 'security' on the dockside to remove any of the scaked staff from the boats if they refuse to leave
The Labour MP for Hull is on Five Live now saying that they couldn't have done this under EU law, but amazingly those EU employment laws never made it on to the statute books in the UK, so sacking your workforce and replacing them with cheaper alternatives is now apparently fully legal
Welcome to Brexit Britain, now with considerably fewer employees rights than before. I bet nobody saw that coming, eh?
Maritime labour convention sets minimum standards for seafarers employment
And you can be certain those minimum standards are very low.
An employer couldn't do this prior to Brexit due to EU employment rights. They now can
Who'd have thunk it?
https://twitter.com/Sh3zz4/status/1504446011401515020?s=20&t=-8Zv52r3Th812MsVbkUaAw
but amazingly those EU employment laws never made it on to the statute books in the UK
Given most legislation was simply copy pasted from one to the other I'd honestly take that with as big a pinch of salt as £350m per week for the NHS. I'm not saying it's isn't true just that I'd like to know exactly which bit of legislation prohibited it and when it was removed by statutory instrument.
Is entirely possible it was a decision or directive mind in which instance unless it was passed into UK legislation previously anyway it wouldn't have prevented anything whilst we were still a member state, such as the working time directive.