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I'd take the job, but I'd also be aware that Oslo can probably be a bit lonely on a dark wet night when all your colleagues have gone home to their families and you have either work or an empty flat.
It sounds like you've nothing to lose by giving it a go. I lived abroad and wouldn't have missed it for anything, though that didn't involve a split life.
Have a got chat with the company and your wife... Give it a go.
Look a bit further ahead, could this be a stepping stone to live in a different country? The U.K. Isn't looking too appealing as an expat now living in Germany.. I'll not be going back.
Taking what seems a good redundancy may not create the same family opportunities going forward
Tuesday to Thursday is fine, you will miss virtually nothing. I did that type of thing for years. That said I too redundancy in Dec as they tried to make me do more away from home and at my own expense. It does make it harder to do your own stuff, ie long rides on a Sunday though. Glad to be back to a 30 min commute and living on edge of Dale's..
If it's a decent place you are going to then planning stuff to do away from the family will feel like a break.
Having lived in Oslo (and now Stavanger) I can honestly say its a great city. Work/ life balance over here is good and the quality of life is high
commute for a while and convince the family to move over
What does your wife think of the redundancy/3 days in Oslo options?
In reality her support/acceptance of the new arrangements will be a major factor in whether it works or not.
FWIW I'd be trying the short week in Oslo option for a bit and then taking the redundancy if it wasn't right for you all. I did a similar commute from Leeds into Dublin (I'm about an hour from Leeds Bradford airport) for 2 years, usually 2 days a week but often 3. It was manageable once we all settled into the routine.
As Wombat says above it very much depends on your wife and how she would feel being alone for a (relatively short) period each week. You also need to consider her career aspirations and make sure that she will not resent you doing this.
I worked away a lot whilst my daughter was young but also had periods at home. It was project work so more variable than what you describe. It worked ok but I missed out on a few things and sometimes getting to parents evening etc. was not possible. As long as your wife can cover this it should be ok (kids tend to just want someone to see their plays, assemblies etc. - two people is a bonus).
Personally I would go for it if I was comfortable that I could do the job effectively under the circumstances. No harm in trying if they have offered you a trial period.
FWIW my working life was a bit like Jamba describes, saw the kids mainly at the w/e as I was pretty much away Mon-Fri across Europe and the world.
They're now all grown up.
Do any of us remember when I wasn't there? Nope. We only remember when I was there.
I also was asked by the company to relocate (went to Germany). The youngest was 18 months and my wife gave up work. Only there a year but when it's pretty much paid for and as there was the family we rented a nice house rather than a flat we had a good time.
Plus, when out there I travelled far less as I said I'm not moving and then still doing the same job, no point.
Looking back the time you need to be around is their teens, and for this I was. This is the testing time, especially with sons who are getting all 'testrony' with their Mum.
Could you do some of your Mon & Fri WFH stuff whilst sat in the hotel in Oslo on those midweek nights to make them lighter days?
My instinct would be to give it a go - at three days with a couple of extra days at home you're likely to see more of your lad, not less, particularly if you can wangle the flexibility to do school pick-ups/teatime on the Monday and Friday.
At five, you may even come to decide that Norway is a far superior environment to be bringing up a kid.
Only skim read but sounds like company is being very acoommodating. Grab the opportunity for a new experience. They might not come along that often.
Never pass up the chance to live in a different country
Wife is supportive and happy for the commuting arrangement - it's not like our son is a toddler and he is fairly low maintenance. Plus if it doesn't work then the reducndancy option still exists
She thinks that taking the package now without giving this a go is the worst possible option - she knows that I will drive myself crazy and that you are better placed to get a job when you have one
My next steps are to give the work pattern a go next week to see if it feels a lot different to my current travelling and possibly see a career coach (paid for by the company) to see if they can give me any advice
Not read anything but the first post. Seems like a great deal to me, not sure why you are hesitating. Its only potentially 2 midweek nights in Oslo!
Working three days a week in another place is a pretty good way to go if you are already travelling there often. Having an apartment is the key, preferably close to work, as you have got your own space in the evenings and a short commute on a daily basis to make up for the big round trip once a week. Working from home for two days and not having to do head office trips anymore and you are ahead of the game in terms of commuting time.
The working experience can be much better too if you are working at head office because you can get things done face to face rather through interminable emails exchanges.
Add in the fun of discovering a new city and it is a great opportunity.
Obviously it is not just about you. My father was likewise in the forces and I was away at school, but because my father ensured he did most of his travelling and entertaining in term time, we saw a lot of him in the holidays. He was even home for lunch most days. It is what you make of the time together, not the quantity in my view.
The main issue is making sure your wife doesn't feel she is carrying the burden of raising the kids on her own and stopping the potential resentment this can cause.
Lots of sound advice coming - I really appreciate it
I know that the company is bending over backwards to accommodate me, the work / life balance is generally good and the safety net is huge.
May be this is just too good to give up even if it is 3 nights away
I could be in the gig economy or working for another company that expects 50hrs a week and to be available on holidays etc
I notice lots of people extolling the virtues of Norway as a place to live. One of my best friends is Norwegian but has lived abroad from nearly 40 years. Whilst he is a proud Norwegian, there is no way he is ever going back there to live as he finds his fellow countrymen and women too provincial and small minded - he's not too keen on us at the moment either post Brexit vote.
Likewise, a former member of my staff emigrated to Norway a few years ago, he is Australian and his wife is Norwegian. They used to go to Oslo for weekends all the time and he loved it. When he moved permanently, he hated it, he too found the working environment in finance compared to London, chippy and small minded. He lasted a year and they moved to Australia. They are now back in London as that works best them as a family.
Living in Oslo works for many as the posts on here show, but others have a different experience.
I found myself in a near identical situation 3 years ago, though swap Oslo for London (I'm in Edinburgh). I took the money and never looked back, I was lucky enough to walk straight into a job (Took 6 months to find it, but had been given extended notice period to provide cover for my successor) that I have loved ever since. I enjoyed the company I was in before but I'm now in an even better business, better role, better progression, better money.
I'm aware I am very lucky, and it won't always be the case, but given your question was what would we do, that's what I did and I never looked back.
Turning this around, someone is willing to pay you 18 months salary (first £30k tax free) to not take a job (which you aren't very sure about). That is a very temping offer no?
Unless your work is ultra niche most jobs need pretty much the same base skill set and so the betting is getting another job won't be much of a challenge. That's the bet YOU need to think about.
I'm writing this from perspective of someone who has been in same situation and yes I did take the money. One of the best decisions I ever made.
Take redundancy.
Await call asking you to go back as a contractor, 3 days a week in Oslo, Monday and Friday working from home.
Start contracting
Assume smug face.
I would do it without any doubt at all, sounds like a great opportunity. 3 nights per week of discomfort, in my opinion at least, is more than offset by 2 days working from home.
Do it for a couple of months, if it doesn't work then you can use the 2 days at home to find another job and attend interviews.
Do the commute.
3 days a week is nothing.
They are bending over backwards to accommodate you and seem to be an outfit that really look after their people. Not many of them about anymore.
Accommodation and travel is going to cost them a significant amount. £500 - £800 a week? So they must value you. You would be mad not to stay.
I think the #firstworldproblem is very appropriate here. 🙂
What would your living arrangements in Oslo be ?
Hotel ? Or a staff house or a studio ?
Makes a big odds for me. Having some where to set up and call home for your 3 nights makes an odds.
I've done the living out a bag for 7years and recently moved to a job where I have a room in a house I can set up for me has lifted spirits alot. Makes it much easier to switch off and not just sit and work because there's nowt else to do.
Next trip a bike and turbo trainer will be coming with me 🙂
I think we need some rough ballpark info here to give more informed feedback, including...
Age?
How many months would the redundancy payout cover, compared to the increased salary of the new role with half the week in Norway?
Partner working?
Are you as a family mortgaged up to the hilt?
If the payout is significantly above Statutory Redundancy Pay and you are under ~45, I'd be inclined to take the payout.
If there are no job opportunities in your field of expertise, should that be what you want to carry on doing in an ideal world, if you are reasonably fit you could always find a part-time job such as being a postman for 3 days per week while continuing the search (which would be ~£240 gross per week).
You could also, depending on the part-time job and if you are married, transfer some of your Income Tax allowance to your partner.
https://www.gov.uk/marriage-allowance/how-it-works
Also, there are plenty of people who spend weeks at a time offshore, on ships or in some God forsaken West African shithole to provide for their family. It's a fact of life.
MTFU and do the commute
you've nothing to lose by giving it a go, for sure. i would explore at what point they want to know if you'll make it permanent or not and still pony up the redundancy. i'd try for a 3 month trial and review at that time.
going forward i don't think it's a great time to be looking for a job TBH. the UK is going to be in the shitter for a while. IMO, of course.
good luck, whatever you decide.
Commute. No worse than commuting to somewhere in the UK (I used to do 3 days a week outside Manchester and it was better than my now daily commute).
I've got a staff member who commutes from Åland to Northampton - at least you're going somewhere good!
Always worth checking in with the Mrs periodically to see if her opinion has changed too! She may well be going through a similar amount of to-ing and fro-ing as you are 🙂
I realised in my previous response I had missed this comment from you
They have said that if it doesn't work out that they will still give the redundancy - I guess I would need to get that written down - that kind of makes it more straight forward
If this is genuinely the case then I see no reason not to try it. It will also give you some time to help search for new stuff, if you feel it's not working out.
Haven't read all the replies, but here's my take:
I've spent the last 3 years doing M-W (sometimes M-T) working away from home. Now, admittedly, home is Lancashire and work is London, but it's the same principle.
My daughter was 3 when I started and is now 6. My wife works very hard in a demanding job (we have the benefit of nearby family help).
Do I want to do it forever? No. Has it been an interesting experience? Yes. Would it make me comfortable working away again? Yep.
Short answer: do the commute and enjoy the experience.
I am 45 - so slap bang in the middle of career. I seem too old to change direction and too young to go for early retirement
Redundancy is above statutory minimum - around 18 months salary
Not mortgaged to the hilt - the redundancy would pay off the mortgage
Wife is working part time - she does the pick ups and drop offs with our son.
I know the best outcome would be to line up another job and take the money and run. However, I have been looking fairly hard since Christmas and nothing has come up.
I don't relish the idea of unemployment given the state of the job market - my bell weather is a couple of people I know having been out unemployed for over a year. Whenever I see them they look like their stuffing has been knocked out and I don't fancy that!
No, the best option is surely to enjoy Oslo for a while and see how it goes. If you think you can waltz into a better job locally and you're actively hostile to the idea of spending some time abroad, then you can sort that out anyway over the next few months.
I'll be the dissenting voice here then, as someone who did 3-4 days a week in various bits of Europe for a few years, and stopped because I got fed up with it.
In no particular order, on the commuting option:
1. I'd be very, very cautious about the offer of still getting redundancy after rejecting an extended trial period, as others have pointed out.
2. Logistics - when are you travelling? If they expect a full, normal day of work on Tu/W/Th then you're most likely flying out on a Monday evening, and you'll be home (very) late on Thursday.
3. Where are you officially based (Oslo?), and what does that mean for how you're paid, tax implications, etc.
4. If they really want you there full time, expect some (attempts on) stretching of your week. Big important meeting on a Friday with someone who can only be on that day, will you be there? Deadline on a Tuesday, can you be in Monday to help? If they have decent remote working / conferencing tools it can easier to head off some of this but prepare for requests.
A mate does similar with Amsterdam 2 days a week (rest London or WFH) and finds it pretty hard going, and he lives very close to the airport (taxi from home to terminal is 10 mins), and a pretty easy journey the other end.
Unless you have super-niche untransferrable skills, I'd be biting their hands off at 18 months salary.
woody71 - Member
I am 45 - so slap bang in the middle of career. I seem too old to change direction and too young to go for early retirementRedundancy is above statutory minimum - around 18 months salary
Not mortgaged to the hilt - the redundancy would pay off the mortgage
Wife is working part time - she does the pick ups and drop offs with our son.
I'd definitely take the redundancy payment based on above, especially as the mortgage would be paid off, without mortgage or rent your normal family monthly outgoing will be slashed.
Thats a bloody good package and I took a years salary, and then a slightly lower paid job. But I took the view it would take me 10 years to earn back the difference and by that time I've earned/saved interest by getting the payout. I'd seriously consider it! I did find my new job 2 days before the individual consultation process started though..
I have a few mates who did it when SAAB went to the wall, and a more when Volvo got rid of a load.
Living in and around the Göteborg/Trollhättan/Vänersborg/Uddevalla area, then commuting to do a 4 or 5 day week in Norway, mostly O&G or energy stuff, some ended up in Oslo (3 hours drive) some in Kongsvinger (4 hours drive) and some flying out, Stavanger, Trondheim etc (probably 5+ hours door to door).
They pretty much all enjoyed it massively. And that's coming from a Swedish work/life balance thing, to Norwegian, so saying something! Some even got onto Norwegian salaries. Several relocated out there permanently, families etc.
Many of them are heading back now as Volvo are hiring quite a few and O&G is slowing down. Don't *think* any of them regret going out there.
And as an added bonus, if you get a company provided flat, you can even extend your working week and take the family out for a week/long weekend for not very much. Scandinavia is a great place to be in the spring/summer.
I'd go to Oslo. I work two days, two nights, four off and I only have my lads on the four off plus holidays, which sounds like less than you'd be seeing your family, however I can honestly say that I spend more quality time with the boys than most of my conventional Mon-Fri peers. Those 'work from home' days could really work for you.
my dad was in the RAF till I was 11. Regularly away in the week, sometimes on 6 week deployments
Bless the RAF where 6 weeks is called a deployment; Navy here and just getting to the end of six months away (with a brand new Slackline waiting to be built up at home - can't wait). I can't comment on your exact situation but in terms of the effects of separation on your kids, it is manageable. You must make an effort to keep up with their lives and don't forget that even with Skype etc, nothing shows you care as much as a proper hand written letter. Good luck with your choice.
mmm - lots to think about
May be I should do a count up of the yeahs and nays on this evenings flight to Oslo!
Will keep you all posted on my choice
To be continued...
Been in situation of living on large pay-out and looking for work for over 12 months- bills were paid and had lots of free time but novelty soon wore-off. It was stressful watching nest-egg dwindle away, too much time on my hands and while all-day-every-day with kids was never a chore, it was difficult to create "special" time. We made the best of it but there was an element of existing, rather then really savouring life.
Did similar commute for 3 months, but working away Mon-Fri, digs + travel at my cost-
Concentrated on career during week days
Got free time mid-week evenings to skype home/explore/bike/socialise
Wife got lots of support from family and made sure she had quality time with kids
We made effort to ensure every weekend was about giving the kids genuine quality time and fun activites
Not sure commuting would have worked as a permanent solution, but it was a great adventure, kids barely noticed I was away and it led to the whole family relocating- and everyone absolutely loves our new life.
Sounds like you are getting an even better opportunity...
I work away 4 days per week and think myself lucky - often I have to do all week. Wife grumbles a bit but mostly OK.
I do wonder about travel costs and what you might owe in tax if the company pays. If it was in the UK you'd have to pay tax on the expenses the company pays for as you're going to your base office - is it any different if abroad?
Just got off the plane and on the flytoget (for those that know Oslo)
I am supposed to be "held harmless" on all tax related issues but the more I understand about where I might be taxed the better so can sort these issues now rather than later
Payments into uk pensions and national insurance etc could also be an issue
Taxation is generally based on residency so you should be taxed in the UK. Having said that, colleagues from back in the 90s overseas assignments kept many tax lawyers in business. Make sure that "held harmless" is in your contract and get your employer to pay for an independent lawyer to confirm.
Hi all
An update on my situation
I decided after much pain and anguish to take the job in Oslo on a commuting basis (Tuesday to Thursday away)
My decision was helped by all the advice from STW plus the help of a career coach who basically framed this as an opportunity and it's not forever and you have nothing to lose if they will give redundancy etc etc. He also said be committed to the job but loyal to your family. In other words gave the permission not to feel guilty to my family for going and also not to feel like I must stay out of a sense of commitment if it doesn't work out.
In Oslo tonight writing this from hotel room
Excellent - better to try and have it not work out, rather than to wonder "what if..."
Hope it works out for you whichever way it goes.
Wish I'd taken more opportunities when I had the chance