MegaSack DRAW - This year's winner is user - rgwb
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Are per the thread title.
If the UK was to do away with all military in the UK. Essentially leaving it unarmed, would it quickly be invaded, or would its allies fight to keep it safe?
Who would be the first to invade?
Aliens, has to be Aliens.
Invaded.
Russia.
Well we'd drop out of NATO, so our NATO allies wouldn't protect us. Seeing as we don't have any massive oil deposits or other in demand natural resources I can't imagine anyone else wanting to "help" us like the West has done in the Middle East.
Interesting question though, why would anyone want to invade the UK nowadays?
No chance the Queen has lots of armies.
or would its allies fight to keep it safe?
AIUI, almost all our treaties are mutual protection.
If we are unable to offer any assistance, were our allies to be invaded, why would they offer us the same protection?
And who would be the first to invade? Probably the Norwegians or the French -
they've both had previous successes!
or would its allies fight to keep it safe?
WTF? Hell no.
Reality we'd probably bob on fine for a while, then one day when no one was looking be invaded.
Not much in terms of invasion/aggression
I think the days of nations completely conquering other nations is a thing of the past - in europe anyway
Many nations in europe are of a size militarily where they could be easily invaded by a larger nation but its not a real risk and it would not be for us
Our allies may fight it would depend who the aggressor was - north korea yes the USA not likely. Who would invade us and why - lichtenstein has no army but its not on a wish list because of this/
never going to happen though [ the invasion nor the no armed forces].
but we'd then have no-one to chase those smoky old Russian aircraft carriers away.
We'd be eating Borscht and chips in Lenindon before the week was out.
Gib and Falklands would be first to go.
Then the taffs would annex Monmouth.
Who is going to invade the UK? I really cannot think of any risk of this at all.
Overseas territories would be first to go; Falklands, Gibraltar, etc. After that, are we worth invading?
We could almost certainly scale back to a defence force and get rid of our nukes. It's arguable that we'd be safer and better defended if we did this.
why would any country with a ounce of sense invade this shit hole.
good point that , the colonies would be taken back.
why would any country with a ounce of sense invade this shit hole.
Free houses and benefits apparently.
Agentina might invade the falklands but I doubt it - after all we no longer have the capability to send a task force / defend them as we did before so what is stopping Argentina doing this now?
spain is not going to invade Gibralter militarily.
so what is stopping Argentina doing this now?
4 typhoons, some rapiers systems and 1200 infantry.
They would struggle to make a successful amphibious landing against them.
as a world power, we are now a non entity.
It is hardly an outlandish statement to say they will and it is certainly a very real riskspain is not going to invade Gibralter militarily
so what is stopping Argentina doing this now
TLAM equipped submarines + a considerably upgraded airfield and air defences.
4 typhoons, some rapiers systems and 1200 infantry.
They would struggle to make a successful amphibious landing against them.
Take off and nuke them from orbit.
It's the only way
4 typhoons, some rapiers systems and 1200 infantry.They would struggle to make a successful amphibious landing against them.
1 cruise missile into the only fast jet runway on the islands and you can land all the troops you like.
Rachel
What about all the tax havens? Our head of state is a world leader in offshore dealings...
1 cruise missile into the only fast jet runway on the islands
Do they have any?
Besides several cruise missiles into their airfields and they are not flying anything either.
Wouldn't it all be about loss of jobs and impact on the UK defence industry? We'd have more unemployed and, I'd expect, a smaller defence industry without a domestic armed forces to drive and fund development.
oo - good point - think of my pension!!
Rachel
We would have no power or influence in the world. People like to say 'negotiation' is the key, but nobody will negotiate unless you have something to back yourself up. Why do you think we're so desperate to continue with a nuclear deterrent and other nations are so keen to get nukes? Its to increase their power and influence in the world.
It'd be no fun being an irrelevant nation relying on the kindness of other nations to look after us. Why should they? Why should other nations deploy troops to support us? We only have allies in the world due to mutual benefit. and our military protects our interests and provides that stability and security so others can take us seriously. It is of utmost importance for a trading nation.
Forget Spain being our nice friendly allies. Spain would have already invaded Gibraltar militarily if it wasn't for our military. A work colleague of mine is ex-forces and was stationed in Gibraltar when the Falklands kicked off to do just that as part of an increased deployment there to prevent a military invasion whilst our attentions and resources were focussed elsewhere, such was the certainly that Spain would take advantage and invade.
And given that the prime purpose of the government is to guarantee the safety and security of the nation and the people, how could they do that without a serious military force?
costa rica manages without a military IIRC
Great article on this from (yikes!) 7 years ago.¨
" We can only meet realistic threats. We do not build 1,000 NHS hospitals and leave them to await the return of bubonic plague."
" Some taxes are an insurance against future risk, such as being ill or having a sick relative. But they are usually subject to some actuarial assessment of the risk. Defence spending is insurance of a different order. We make no actuarial calculation of the risk of British citizens dying in a military attack or of British property being destroyed. Yet we are required to part with a premium of £45bn a year to prevent it. Why? "
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2010/nov/05/does-britain-need-the-military-army-navy-raf
We have only the illusion o0f power and influence - in reality we have none and wanting WMD so you cn throw yor weight around is ridiculous
Personally I would have a small but highly professional military for defense of these islands only.
We should build a wall.
That'll keep those pesky Mexicans / West Germans / Picts out
I don't think anyone would invade. If they did, what would they gain? If they were particularly shitty, there would be riots. If not, why would it bother us?
1 cruise missile into the only fast jet runway on the islands and you can land all the troops you like.
A sub sitting off the islands for as long as it feels like will make that a less tempting prospect
Who would be the first to invade?
Zimbabwe.
as a world power, we are now a non entity.
I don't think so, how many other countries in the world can send a fairly substantial expeditionary force to anywhere at a moments notice, backed up by a nuclear threat and almost global Signet coverage. Sure we aren't the USA, Russia etc. but to think we are a non-entity is wildly wrong.
Why wouldn't you invade? the UK is in a very strategic position between the Atlantic and mainland Europe, and with strategic assets around the globe. Look it isn't going to happen anytime soon (or ever), but if we had no defence but a few farmers with pitch forks, then it could become a real threat.
With the talk on here or Spain invading Gibraltar it's got me thinking...
Why would they want to invade Gibraltar? What's in it for the Spanish?
A work colleague of mine is ex-forces and was stationed in Gibraltar when the Falklands kicked off to do just that as part of an increased deployment there to prevent a military invasion whilst our attentions and resources were focussed elsewhere, such was the certainly that Spain would take advantage and invade.
And yet Spain never did attempt to invade...
GibraltarWhy would they want to invade Gibraltar? What's in it for the Spanish?
Why would they want to invade Gibraltar? What's in it for the Spanish?
Direct access to cheeky monkeys
The Falklands was a war of political choice. We had nukes then, we didn't use them. just a thought for the debate
If the Russians invaded would they rename Liverpool?
Lennongrad?
1 cruise missile into the only fast jet runway on the islands and you can land all the troops you like.
1. There are 2.
2. They don't have any!
airtragic - Member
1. There are 2.
2. They don't have any!
Pedant, a drone from Amazon and some hand grenades then
The future is an unpredictable place
1920's, after the war to end all wars, who would have predicted the likelihood of another major European conflict?
1989/90, who predicted the collapse of the Soviet Union? Let alone what happened next?
Put aside the war on terror and look at the other events we have witnessed - Bosnia - who would have predicted the beginnings of another genocide on European soil? Were we wrong to intervene there? Kosovo? (Anyone remember Jezza's moral standpoint on intervening in either of them?)
Sierra Leone? Rwanda (international community did nothing)
Crimea? Ukraine? Where next... Norway?
The Falklands was a war of political choice. We had nukes then, we didn't use them. just a thought for the debate
Not quite true, allegedly the UK used them as leverage to persuade France to give them the technical data for the Exocet missile.
IDF Active personnel 9,127 invasions 0
[quote=ton ]why would any country with a ounce of sense invade this shit hole.
with a statement like that, you clearly haven't been to any of the real shit holes of the world...
There would be nothing to gain and pretty much everything to lose for any state to invade the UK with or without an Army.
our former cold war foes i.e. China and USSR now own huge swathes of the UK (mostly London) including our football teams. Our Universities are full of Chinese students. They wouldn't invade - they're doing just fine thanks.
@dragon I take your point, but we didn't use them.
ninfan no one can predict those events. That is the point no? I am fairly sure after WW1 we had a very small army, and we rearmed as it became clear war was coming. We could do that again?
I think we keep a very small force for border control and to remain in the UN , but thats about it.
I think the days of nations completely conquering other nations is a thing of the past - in europe anyway
About 40 million Ukrainians, the Baltics, and Poland would disagree.
costa rica manages without a military IIRC
Technically yes, but there is a SF paramilitary unit and armed police: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Public_Forces_of_Costa_Rica
jam bo - Memberton » why would any country with a ounce of sense invade this shit hole.
with a statement like that, you clearly haven't been to any of the real shit holes of the world...
err wrong
London, Cardiff, Glasgow, Barnsley, Doncaster, barrow, Newcastle, Workington, sunderland, Featherstone, Rotherham, Peterborough, Lincoln, leeds, Walsall, Birmingham,.............................
shall I go on?
we could say we've planted a small nuclear device in every capital we've had an embassy any trouble and it's bye bye paris.
jam bo - Member
ton » why would any country with a ounce of sense invade this shit hole.
with a statement like that, you clearly haven't been to any of the real shit holes of the world
Wow.
An STW shit-hole dick war...
ton - Memberwhy would any country with a ounce of sense invade this shit hole.
It's less than 80 miles to leave this island, what are you waiting for, a bus pass?
Wow.
An STW shit-hole dick war...
hardly. the UK is many things but its also the 5th richest country in the world that people regularly die attempting to get to in search of a better life.
some people may be a little blind to this...
costa rica manages without a military IIRC
https://medium.com/war-is-boring/costa-rica-doesnt-have-a-military-not-so-fast-499b5d67e160
I'm also remembering something about them generally piggy backing of the US military which if the case would mean having to be in line with US wishes. Not sure about that bit tbh!?
ton - member
err wrongLondon, Cardiff, Glasgow, Barnsley, Doncaster, barrow, Newcastle, Workington, sunderland, Featherstone, Rotherham, Peterborough, Lincoln, leeds, Walsall, Birmingham,.............................
shall I go on?
Seriously?
Life expectancy in Glasgow for men is about 72 years.
In Russia it's about 65 years!
I've been to some pretty grim places in India and China as well.
err wrongLondon, Cardiff, Glasgow, Barnsley, Doncaster, barrow, Newcastle, Workington, sunderland, Featherstone, Rotherham, Peterborough, Lincoln, leeds, Walsall, Birmingham,.............................
shall I go on?
Well, I'd say you start by listing places that fall into the poo hole category in a global context. But I suspect you just need to stretch your legs after emerging from underneath that bridge. 😛
it would be good for some other country to invade us, steal what little value we have and leave us ****ed up.............just like we have done through the years to other countries.
I think Canada has a relatively small army compared to America and its size due to America having a huge army that keeps it safe.
it would be good for some other country to invade us, steal what little value we have and leave us **** up.............just like we have done through the years to other countries.
Well it wouldn't though, really, would it.
I think the days of nations completely conquering other nations is a thing of the past
China and USSR now own huge swathes of the UK (mostly London) including our football teams. Our Universities are full of Chinese students. They wouldn't invade - they're doing just fine thanks.
This,most assets are owned and/or exploited by international banks/financiers ,corporations,pension and hedge funds and a handful of extremely wealthy individuals and corrupt heads of state, there's no need for an invasion as they probably already own the valuable stuff.Germany and Japan waged WW2 for not just ideological reasons but for access to energy and raw materials.Post WW2 they became the world's leading economic and industrial powerhouses yet they had less resources than earlier.Africa is potentially the richest continent when it comes to natural resources yet it is actually the poorest.Discovering vast mineral/energy resources instead of increasing the standard of living for the many usually just lines the pockets of the few and causes misery for millions,Nigeria for example.
Do Nomura own Greggs btw?
What would happen if the UK had no armed forces?
1. Take all your smaller islands. Oversea territories first.
2. Take all your fish.
3. Take all your natural resources.
4. Divide your land up.
5. Set up sweatshops for cheap labour.
6. Set up penal colony to support No.5.
7. Spain, France, Germany and Italy will be the first to conquer on the pretext of "helping" the people ...
😆
ton - Memberit would be good for some other country to invade us, steal what little value we have and leave us **** up...........
You're grumpy this morning. Did the zookeeper fail to flush all the sand out of your mangina or something?
5th before Brexit. Now 6th.the 5th richest country
1920's, after the war to end all wars, who would have predicted the likelihood of another major European conflict?
Most people in the know at the time.
So we need nukes in case of aggression from Spain which doesnt have nukes?
Agentina might invade the falklands but I doubt it - after all we no longer have the capability to send a task force / defend them as we did before so what is stopping Argentina doing this now?
they can't afford to let their air force take off at the moment, and the planes are the same as those used in 1982. Our deployment is substantially larger and a hole in the runway will only delay not prevent operations as they simply get filled in
London, Cardiff, Glasgow, Barnsley, Doncaster, barrow, Newcastle, Workington, sunderland, Featherstone, Rotherham, Peterborough, Lincoln, leeds, Walsall, Birmingham,.............................
The Russians mapped all these places with precision in the cold war up to the late 1980's, they probably still are mapping them, don't believe they didn't have an invasion plan
it would be good for some other country to invade us, steal what little value we have and leave us **** up.............just like we have done through the years to other countries.
the history of invasions we have experienced means that all property goes to the invader..........
And yet Spain never did attempt to invade...
Cos Wobbliscott's mate was there silly.
we'd have to work out what to do with the tens of thousands of people that are willing to kill for the Queen and country.
"IDF Active personnel 9,127 invasions 0"
Large reserve force and a very proactive approach to ensuring the latter, plus a nuclear deterrent of course!
There hasn't been a major crash at Heathrow airport for years - perhaps we they don't really need their own fire engines? No terrorist attacks there either? Perhaps we don't need any armed police and metal detectors?
Yes, we nuke them if they are trying it on. They don't have nukes? Good. 😆wilburt - Member
So we need nukes in case of aggression from Spain which doesnt have nukes?
Then we do this to them:
1. Take all their smaller islands. Oversea territories first.
2. Take all their fish.
3. Take all their natural resources.
4. Divide their land up.
5. Set up sweatshops for cheap labour.
6. Set up penal colony to support No.5.
7. Prevent France, Germany and Italy from joining the party on the pretext that we are protecting Spain from other aggressors ...
😆
Budget for Military - 45bn
Combined population of Falklands and Gibraltor - 35,057 (32217 + 2840)
So why don't we just ask them all to move back here in exchange for 1,283,623 million each and save all future military payments?
bargain.
There hasn't been a major crash at Heathrow airport for years - perhaps we they don't really need their own fire engines? No terrorist attacks there either? Perhaps we don't need any armed police and metal detectors?
why is that relevant to the discussion?
Budget for Military - 45bn
Combined population of Falklands and Gibraltor - 35,057 (32217 + 2840)So why don't we just ask them all to move back here in exchange for 1,283,623 million each and save all future military payments?
bargain.
There's shit-loads of oil in the Falklands now.