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Not disagreeing with that.
my warmed slippers and Earl Grey
You see, at first reading, I thought you were getting all posh having warmed 'kippers'.
I'll slink off back to lurking. 😳
It’s just as well!
I am sorry Doris if I have got this wrong but you appear to believe that my second quote somehow negates the first one?
I maintain that there appears to be an exaggerated view of how much working-class people rely on newspapers to provide them with political news.
The link I provided and the quote associated with it was in response to binners ridicule of Daz's comment.
It is abundantly clear that there were Labour MPs who attacked and urged people not to vote Labour. Whether they did so on the television, as many did, or less commonly in full page adverts in local/regional newspapers in northern Labour seats specifically being targeted by the Tories, is irrelevant.
The fact remains that Daz's comment, despite binners usual attempt to ridicule, was perfectly legitimate.
It is abundantly clear that there were FORMER Labour MPs who attacked and urged people not to vote Labour
FTFY
Imagine that? MPs who were no longer members of that party, having left to form their own, urging voters not to vote for the party they just left
On that basis I take it you’re attributing Boris’s downfall to Rory Stewart and David Gauke, and interviews they’ve subsequently given to the Stoke Advertiser and the Bournemouth Gazette, yeah?
Talk about desperately clutching at straws to try and apportion blame to anywhere but the glaringly obvious 😂
Ernie is right in that the attacks on Corbyn from sitting and former labour mps cost labour the election. That and the labour/ tory anti snp pact in Scotland
It was utterly disgusting to see labour mps cheering tory wins and slagging the labour leader. Those labour right wingets behaved disgracefully and share a large part of the blame for Brexit and the big tory majority we have now.
Utterly disgraceful behaviour
It is abundantly clear that there were FORMER Labour MPs who attacked and urged people not to vote Labour
FTFY
"Former" by a matter of about 4 weeks.
Talk about desperately clutching at straws
Quite. The idea that these Labour MPs had done nothing until the adverts appeared in newspapers two days before the general election is clearly absurd. As is your repeated suggestion that it caused no damage to Labour's electoral chances.
Those labour right wingets behaved disgracefully and share a large part of the blame for Brexit and the big tory majority we have now.
Don’t be daft. It was all the fault of thick racist working class people. Serves them right, and now they’ve messed up the retirement plans of rich middle class people moving to the Dordogne they should be happy their kids are not going to starve.
Those labour right wingets behaved disgracefully and share a large part of the blame for Brexit and the big tory majority we have now
If we’re in the game of apportioning blame for Brexit among Labour MPs, then I think we may need to look at the man who voted against EU integration for his entire parliamentary ‘career’, conveniently went completely AWOL during the referendum campaign then was first out of the blocks, even before Farage, demanding that Article 50 be triggered immediately after the results were in, then whipped his MPs to support leaving the Customs Union and Single Market ensuring that Boris and the ERG got their hardest of Brexits
Who might that be then? Hmmmmm….
Honestly… what planet do you lot live on? 😂
So in answer to the question in the thread title… this is what a revolution looks like
The left joining forces with the far right to ensure a project to take us out of the EU
There’s your revolution.
Oh we are now back to talking about Corbyn are we binners?
About a week ago you claimed that Corbyn was, and I quote, "echoing Farage" during the referendum campaign. I asked you in what you meant by that and you disappeared from the thread.
Do you want to tell me now binners since you are apparently keen to talk about the issue again? Views on asylum seekers? Foreigners? Immigration? The country is too crowded? What?
He wanted us out of the EU just as much as Farage did and, somewhat ironically, a lot more than Boris did.
And now, as Truss tears up workers rights and carries on with the Brexit ‘project’ of turning the UK into a sweatshop/tax haven she can smile to herself knowing that she could never have done it without the full support of the former Labour leader
A man so profoundly stupid that he willingly acted as a cheerleader for a far right coup
they’ve messed up the retirement plans of rich middle class people moving to the Dordogne
No they haven’t. The rich can retire to anywhere. That will never change. It is the working class and our children that have lost opportunities, the rich can always flash their cash and buy their way past barriers that have been erected for the rest of us.
Binners derailing another thread with his obsession with Corbyn. 🙄
No they haven’t.
It’s definitely a lot more difficult if you’re the sort of person who is property rich and cash poor which is most of the uk middle class.
Binners derailing another thread with his obsession with Corbyn. 🙄
And once again… it’s never me who brings the stupid old goat up. I leave that to the usual cult members, who are like those Japanese soldiers still found fighting the Second World War in the jungle on some remote pacific island
He wanted us out of the EU just as much as Farage did
Echoing means to repeat, as in "this place is an echo chamber". I have to assume that you can't think of any examples of where Corbyn repeated Farage's brexit narrative and your comment was merely designed to be a slur.
I would be interested btw in why you think Labour didn't do better among traditional Labour voters in the "red wall" seats, if brexit was what motivated them and Corbyn "wanted us out of the EU just as much as Farage did"?
An anti-Semitic racist brexiteer...
.. what more could working-class voters want?
Corbyn and Farage wanted the same thing for very different reasons, Farages obvious, Corbyn absolutely inexplicable to me. As a Brexit supporting Corbyn fan boi, maybe you can try and pick some logic or reason out of it and explain it for me…
They both got what they wanted. As did you
Hurray for them and you. Unlucky for the rest of us
And once again… it’s never me who brings the stupid old goat up.
Nah it was definitely you binners. About an hour ago you mentioned "Magic Grandad", up until that point no one had mentioned Corbyn.
You have a complete obsession with the former Labour leader.
I think this thread (as always 😄) perfectly sums up what a British revolution would look like.
Everyone would be too busy arguing with each other than getting together to stick it to “the man”
Corbyn who spent the entire campaign campaigning for remain and who spoke to more people at more events than snyone else with a pro remain agenda
Binners
You have to face it. Your beloved labour centrist ie right wingets effed it up not Corbyn
Stop attempting to rewrite history
I have little time for Corbyn but i do have a liking for truth
Along with that grandstanding idiot Swinson of course
Corbyn who spent the entire campaign campaigning for remain
In his shed on his allotment, apparently?
You know courgettes don’t have voting rights?
What would a British revolution look like?
More backstabbing and infighting than the French one looking at the last couple of pages 🙄
Binners. He spoke in favour of remain at more events to more people than any other remain politician. Stop rewriting history. Its yor beloved rightwingets that made sure we had a tory government that enacted leaving by attacking Corbyn
Never in my time following politics has ant party shot itself in the foot so badly
Backstabbing and infighting suggests attacks from the same side, do you honestly believe that everyone posting on the last couple of pages would back a revolution if it came?!? 😁
Binners. He spoke in favour of remain at more events to more people than any other remain politician. Stop rewriting history. Its yor beloved rightwingets that made sure we had a tory government that enacted leaving by attacking Corbyn
That statement is so completely detached from reality, it’s difficult to know where to start
It’s fair to say that it’s not me that’s guilty of rewriting history though
If this was remotely true, which it clearly isn’t, how do you explain Corbyn deranged demand for article 50 to be triggered as soon as the results were in - literally within hours?!
And everything he did after that such as whipping his MPs to ensure leaving the single market and the customs Union?
Doesn’t sound very remainy, does it.
And that because it wasn’t. It all sounds very very Brexity. Because it is.
The man was/is a lifelong Brexiteer who got what he always wanted. The UK to leave the EU
When it comes to Brexit, he’s just Farage dressed as a 1970’s geography teacher
Never in my time following politics has ant party shot itself in the foot so badly
Oh I dunno, Jo Swinson and Sturgeon did quite well in ensuring the hard brexit they apparently never wanted. Not that I ever thought that brexit was anything more than a convenient tactical issue for them.
Anyway, back on topic, I think it’s pretty clear that the Labour Party today have little interest in a revolution in thinking like in the 1940s, let alone anything more concrete like an actual functioning health service or welfare state.
The revolution already happened comrades. In June 2016. In typically English fashion it was dull and disappointing.
But it’s happened and there’s no going back now
The UK is now the Crimson Permanent Assurance
phiiil - coming to a fried fish emporium near you...£15 for said fried fish with chips.
If this was remotely true, which it clearly isn’t, how do you explain Corbyn deranged demand for article 50
That "deranged demand" was the consequence of a referendum result, do you think that lost Labour support? Do you believe rejecting the referendum result would have been a vote winner for Labour?
That's what the LibDems did, despite being the first major UK party to call for a referendum on EU membership, how did that pan out for them?
Corbyn made your centrist hero Starmer Labour shadow brexit secretary and allowed him to talk him into backing a second referendum. How much was Labour's stance on brexit as dictated by Starmer a vote winner for them?
But anyway you made a very direct comparison with Nigel Farage claiming that Corbyn was "echoing" Farage on brexit, are you now saying that Farage was also calling for a second referendum??
And why are you countering TJ's claim that Corbyn spoke publicly for Remain by saying that it isn't "remotely true" because he called for Article 50 after the referendum result? I want to hear how Corbyn went around talking in favour of Leave during the campaign, which is what Nigel Farage did and you claim Corbyn was echoing.
I am not a great fan of Corbyn, like millions of other working-class people my greatest disappointment with him, along with his weakness, was him calling for a second referendum. But the idea that he was somehow comparable with Nigel Farage is clearly idiotic.
Dazh. What part do upu think sturgeon plyed?
Genuine question
They’re like the chuckle brothers, Nige and Jeremy. And they both got what they wanted
Everything after that is academic and we are where we are. How’s your socialist utopia, free from EU Tyranny, working out for you comrade?
Everything you hoped for?
It’s ****ing shit for the rest of us.
Talk about useful idiots…
him calling for a second referendum
Third, Ernie, third.
2016 was the second.
Ernie
No mate. Millions of working class folk were not agaisnt the second ref. Unfortunately swunson killed that or we would not be in the shit wevare in because of brexit
Unlessb you have something to support that claim?
Stp attempting to rewrite history binners. Corbyn faught for remain. Your favourite right wingers scuppered that
Third, Ernie, third.
2016 was the second.
No 2016 was the first referendum on EU membership.
No mate. Millions of working class folk were not agaisnt the second ref.
Yeah I think you are forgetting how large the Labour vote is TJ. 12.88 million people voted Labour in 2017, if only a quarter of those voters didn't want a second referendum in 2019 we are still talking of millions.
What part do upu think sturgeon plyed?
If my memory is correct she essentially railroaded Corbyn into the 2019 election in collusion with Swinson by not opposing Johnson’s wish for an election. If Labour, the Lib Dems and the SNP had opposed Johnson’s move for an election it would never had happened and he would have been forced back to the table with the EU to negotiate a less damaging deal. Instead they chose political advantage. It worked for Sturgeon, and failed massively for Swinson.
Hmmm
Not my memory of it. SNP will always vote down a tory government tho
Johnson would not hsve been forced back to the negotiating tsble and anybthe chance to stop it vwas gone by then was it not?
Not my memory of it. SNP will always vote down a tory government tho
TBF it was mostly Swinson, but Sturgeon did nothing to discourage an election. An election and resultant hard brexit was clearly in the SNPs interest.
Well this has gone off topic and become the usual nest of vipers these threads descend into. I pretty much agree with Binners view but I'm going to slink back to my pint before I get a kicking too.
I think one thing we can all agree on is that that the Labour Party,the SNP and Lib Dems formed a critical mass of utter and complete stupidity in 2019 that gift-wrapped a huge Tory majority for Boris, but there’s a special place in hell reserved for Jeremy ****ing Corbyn for being the driving force behind that
Anyone with even half a brain would have let Boris stew, impotently, but no…
That muppet should never have been anywhere near the leadership of the Labour Party - FFS he’d struggle as the leader of a parish council - but he should have been long gone when he lost in 2017
FFS he’d struggle as the leader of a parish council
And yet he robbed May of her majority after she had a 20 point lead in the polls, after trouncing the likes of Burnham and Cooper in the first leadership election and then increasing his support in the second even after almost all his MPs wanted him out. Truly incompetent!
Well this has gone off topic and become the usual nest of vipers
Binners fault. Some of us were happy with talking about how things could be different but he wanted to blame everything on Corbyn as usual.
Labour Party,the SNP and Lib Dems formed a critical mass of utter and complete stupidity in 2019 that gift-wrapped a huge Tory majority for Boris, but there’s a special place in hell reserved for Jeremy ****ing Corbyn for being the driving force behind that
So now Corbyn was the "driving force" behind not only Labour's stupidity but also that of the SNP's and LibDems. Not bad for someone who in the same post you claim would "struggle as the leader of a parish council"!
I never cease to be amazed by how you are willing to give Corbyn so much credit in his vast ability to influence people, when it suits you, eg Britain would have voted Remain if only Corbyn had used his influence - it's all Corbyn's fault that Remain lost.
And yet when it also suits you he is so incapable that he would "struggle as the leader of a parish council".
Sometimes in the same post.
And yet he robbed May of her majority
He robbed her of **** all. She threw it away all by herself with the worst election campaign the world has ever witnessed
…right up until the point in 2019 where he said ‘hold my soya latte….’
♻️
Remember that May got 10 Scottish mps on the back of a labour tory anti snp pact. Labour rightwingers ran that pact. Without it mays government would have fallen and we woild not have had brexit
More self harm from the labour right.
The labour right carry a lot of blame for the mess we are in because they eould rather be in oppodition than work with the snp or enact social democratic policy. They have forgotten who the enemy is
In Scotland at that election labour mps were cheering tory wins
She threw it away all by herself with the worst election campaign the world has ever witnessed
Against someone who would struggle as leader of a parish council?
More self harm from the labour right.
Totally agree. Everything that’s happening now is a direct result of those evil c**** in the Labour Party who put their own petty insular interests ahead of the millions of working people who they were supposed to be fighting for. I despise them.
It’s all Labour’s fault. Carry on. Tory rule for another decade. ♻️
Never underestimate the paranoid, delusional, tinfoil-helmetted self-indulgence of ‘the left’
They can sit in the common room and rail against the Tory rule they constantly facilitate and piously and self-righteously explain to us in the most condescending and sanctimonious way imaginable how it’s everybody else’s fault but theirs
One day they might eventually learn that defining pretty much everybody as ‘the enemy’ because they don’t possess the idealogical purity necessary for Corbynesque sainthood doesn’t really work in a democracy, where you need to give people a reason to actually vote for you, but I wouldn’t hold your breath
So any revolution won’t come from them. They’re too busy point-scoring in the utterly joyless and humourless manner that they specialise in
they might eventually learn that defining pretty much everybody as ‘the enemy’
And yet no one on stw does that more than you binners. You show total intolerance towards anyone who dares to have a different political opinion to yours - they are all "the enemy".
I doesn't make one iota of difference whether someone is to the left or to the right of you, you treat everyone with a different opinion to yours with equal contempt, as the above post proves.
And no one, absolutely no one, has criticised a leader of the Labour Party on stw more than you have binners.
You insult every politician whose views you disagree with by denouncing them as stupid and moronic, you use the most extreme terminology to insult those on here whose opinions you disagree with, including stuff which is so offensive that a mod is forced to clean up, and yet, and this is where it gets frankly remarkable, you actually accuse those who don't agree with you of being "self-righteous" and "pious"!
you treat everyone with a different opinion to yours with equal contempt
Irony alert.
you treat everyone with a different opinion to yours with equal contempt
Irony alert.
I love the way you felt it was probably better to cut out the last 5 words of my sentence Kelvin. Because of course it would be very hard to claim that I come anywhere near that little rant of binners 😊
Edit: And you edited it to make it less obvious that you had left off the last bit of a sentence!
Irony alert.
Don’t be daft. Binners is the canceller-in-chief. Ernie might disagree but he’s never shut other people down to my knowledge.
And yet no one on stw does that more than you binners.
Oh, I’m not even in the top 10 for intolerance because I’m not in that boorish, tiresome bunch of sanctimonious, self-righteous, joyless, preachy lefties ‘the common room gang’
Anyway… this seems to have become ‘that’ other thread, as everything always does once you lot are involved
Where are the rest of them BTW? I always imagine you all with a consh shell, summoning each other to congregate and shout down anyone who dares to disagree with you
Binners is the canceller-in-chief.
Yeah, I’m like Stalin, aren’t I? Talk about proving my point for me 🙄
And there’s the flounce. Another thread consumed by Corbyn nonsense and the obsessive off into the sunset. 😃
So back on topic anyone??
Flounce?
It’s not me getting my petticoats ruffled
Anyway… this seems to have become ‘that’ other thread, as everything always does once you lot are involved
Well that shows just how confused you are binners, apart from your obvious lack of self-awareness.
No one is actually talking about Keir Starmer on this thread.
Although you decided to mention Magic Grandad, as you call him, and then accuse other people of talking about him.
I guess that when you have hardwired your brain to tediously repeat the same knee-jerk reaction, without actually thinking about it, a completely inappropriate post like your previous one is to be expected.
Just to engage with the OP for a second, here's what a British revolution would look like..
- Nationalisation of the energy and water industries
- A huge expansion of funding for the NHS and care industry
- Fair taxation of corporations and the super-rich
- Massively subsidised broadband (or even free)
- Expansion of workers rights and expanding the power of unions
- Democratic control of the Bank of England
- A national education service modelled on the NHS accessible to all for their whole life
- Investment in industry and techonology as part of a green new deal to wean us off fossil fuels.
Given what we're facing now with catastrophic energy bills, potential economic and ecological collapse, widespread strikes and social unrest, a collapsing NHS and care industry and very soon a collapsing education sector, all the above looks not just revolutionary but total common sense. Unfortunately it was a bit too radical for most labour MPs and their party functionaries. I hope they're happy.
Oh, I’m not even in the top 10 for intolerance
Er..... 😕
This is a list of things that wouldn't be done, as money would stop (now, and in the future) going in certain peoples pockets:
Nationalisation of the energy and water industries
– A huge expansion of funding for the NHS and care industry
– Fair taxation of corporations and the super-rich
– Massively subsidised broadband (or even free)
– Expansion of workers rights and expanding the power of unions
– Democratic control of the Bank of England
– A national education service modelled on the NHS accessible to all for their whole life
– Investment in industry and techonology as part of a green new deal to wean us off fossil fuels
@rone As I said to Dazh, the educated middle classes might vote for a left wing Labour Party, but the working classes won’t. At least not in sufficient numbers.
Perhaps they should, and maybe they will in “traditional” Labour seats, but nationally and in swing seats they won’t.
I think that comes down to a question of timing. (And without the baggage of the irreconcilable Brexit position for Labour.)
Working class simply like to have money in their pockets - five more years of the Tories was always going to put rest to that.
This is a list of things that wouldn’t be done, as money would stop (now, and in the future) going in certain peoples pockets
Looking a lot like a 2017/2019 Labour manifesto.
Despite the idea Corbyn was a joke from the 70s - he was an extremely forward thinking leader.
Centrists protecting the status quo - whilst screaming for solutions is an impossibly stupid position.
Please do not call them centrist. They are right wing as can be seen by their behaviour in Scotland whete they do deals with the tories rather than SNP and in doing so saved May by gifting her 10 extra mps and where they do deals like the Edinburgh council where they disciplined two councillors for refusing to endorse a deal with the Tories
These labour rightwingers actions speak louder than words. Their attacks on Corbyn and deals with the Tories in Scotland made brexit happen. Without their malign influence brexit would not have happened.
Looking a lot like a 2017/2019 Labour manifesto.
Yep, plenty of necessary and much needed reforms in both of those. Not really a “revolution”, more a course correction that recent experiences should have made a no brainier for most people to support. Having said that, 2017 was closer to being acceptable to the “Great British Public” though (despite the “extras” of the 2019 manifesto being right up my street politically, they moved Labour away from not towards many voters).
Democratic control of the Bank of England
Seriously?
Seriously?
Absolutely. Bank of England independence is a sham. Designed to abrogate responsiblity for monetary policy from the government of the day and empowers the BoE to make macroeconomic decisions which favour the financial elite in the city. It holds far too much power which has a direct financial impact on the lives of everyone in the UK for it to not be under democratic control and accountability.
It is under full democratic control. It does as it is told. All its targets are set by government. It can only act as instructed by the government.
I think it’s called the English civil war because it was caused by events in England
England and Wales were the last to kick off.
It started in Scotland with the Bishops war after Charlie tried to enforce control of the church there and did rather poorly (not least because he was using just his own funds since he didnt want to recall the English parliament to raise taxes)
As that started to die down the Irish rebellion started. This was partly due to the success of the Bishops war since the Catholics in Ireland felt threatened by the Covenanters and also that a heavily protestant English parliament was gaining power after they had to be called due to the Scottish failure.
Its increasingly referred to as the war of the three kingdoms to cover the entire period with the English civil war being just one component.
Getting away from Binners obsessive ranting and back to what a British revolution would look like.
Something that the British "Establishment" (crap term but given the length of time its the only one which sort of fits) has been very good at historically is bending just enough to stop violent revolution breaking out. The Great reform act is a good example as are some of the changes both post WWI and WWII.
Which brings us back to the present day. Is Truss and her supporters capable of that careful giving just enough to deflate the sails?
A "fun" thing about revolutions is with almost all of them people generally do just want minor reform but the intransigence of those in charge forces matters to far. Again with the war of the three kingdoms very few of the prominent rebels actually wanted Charles dead. He was given chance after chance and it was only when it became clear his belief in the divine right of kings made him utterly incapable of compromise was he finally killed (after trying to do a deal with the Scots).
It is under full democratic control.
So who is holding it to account for its ridiculous decision to raise interest rates? You have far too much faith in these systems and the people in charge of them.
No idea what your last accusation is about [My faith in what?!? In who?], but the government sets the remit the BofE has to follow. If an interest rise is wrong at this time (and I think it is) that is ultimately down the government and the targets it has set for the people it has put in place at the BofE no longer being appropriate for the state of the UK economy and wider world economic changes. Our public sector is full of roles where the day to day decisions are made at “arms length”, but by people chosen and told what do by our elected government. The buck ultimately stops with those we* vote for. They have full control in the end. How democratically we choose them, and how we hold them to account… now that’s another question.
[ *a significant minority of us anyway ]
I thought I saw the Eiffel Tower once, but it was only Binner's hard-on for Corbyn!