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Eggs Benedict.
As a cyclist I've never really been one for cafes, but back in my rock climbing days they were an essential. Largely because way back then training tended to consist of 10 pints on a Friday night before climbing on a massive hangover on Saturday. Anyone old enough to remember the Lovers' Leap in Stoney Middleton before it became an Indian Restaurant?
A "full set" and a pint of tea please.
Bernie's in Ingleton used to be a good place to fuel up before sliding into some dark damp crevasse below Yorkshire's limestone.
If I ran a cafe, I'd kind of base it on the Italian 'trattoria' where the food is homemade, the menu is limited (and seasonal), the portions are generous and prices affordable.
Somewhere to sit that is suitable for well over an hour of lounging with your mates. If we’re all spending close to 10 quid each (coffee, loaded toastie), I think that’s reasonable and I wouldn’t feel guilty
I think thats pretty unreasonable myself - an hour for a cuppa and a butty?
to answer the OP - for me - large portions at competitive prices and none of this mocachinezpressolatte nonsense. Just have coffee. It really bugs me to have to ask for an americano when all I want is a normal coffee
There's a new cafe opened near me and to be fair everyone seems to rave about it, but to me its all show and no substance.
Don't spend thousands on a flash coffee machine then use kids with no training to use it
Don't have funny shaped rocks of sugar then make people ask for one- then don't give it to them so they have to come to the counter and ask again
Don't sell cakes that are so dry there are cracks in the icing
I'm not there to buy arts and crafts
Speed, simplicity, team, margin, half decent kids menu
Everyone hates slow service, too much faff makes you slow to serve, keep it high quality but simple, you need a good motivated team to have speed, you need to make a profit to pay the team and yourself and the bills, people will pay extra if they think it's good value/ a bit special, you need to think about who uses your cafe and when they do, different times will have different customers and families hate crap options
If people say xyz cafe was great, ask why it's not still going
Oh and it needs rubber covers on the chair legs to stop them scraping on the floor.
this and wall coverings that absorb noise.
‘trattoria’ where the food is homemade, the menu is limited (and seasonal), the portions are generous and prices affordable.
and this
and staff that smile, counter service and diners clear their own table, but enough staff to keep counters clean. and be organized
We have these bike repair stations dotted all over Melbourne, perfect for running repairs and nobody can pinch the tools.
At the risk of a boring answer....
Location is obviously the most important factor if you have a particular demographic in mind.
Next question is what kind of a place is it going to be? Sit-down table service? Counter with some seating? Hole-in-the-wall kiosk with plenty of outdoor seating, long bench tables etc?
Cakes and coffee? Bacon sandwiches? Table service meals?
I think it all depends on the particulars of the riding spot, what you are expecting in terms of numbers and the available premises.
I would ask if you could achieve what you wanted using a coffee cart/food-truck type thing? Certainly in the fair weather months.
Australia is pretty the industry's global model for independent coffee shops - and (there are outliers obviously) but the standard is extremely high. It's not the be-all-and end all, but if you are serving bad coffee - you will fail. Dunno anything about Norway obvs.
At the risk of being labeled a bellend by Crikey (a badge I would wear with pride!), it's pretty easy to serve good coffee, but you need to decide whether that's what you want to do or is your approach going to be: "to serve the worst coffee I can without losing customers". I can't understand opening an independent café with the latter philosophy in mind.
A barista is just somebody that's adequately trained to use the coffee machine to a decent standard - nothing knobby about that. You can obviously train somebody to press the buttons and produce brown liquid in about 5 minutes, but the variation in quality between the coffee produced by THAT person and somebody that's had a 90 minute training course, is the difference between the very worst instant coffee you've ever had, and turning to your mate and saying: "wow, this coffee is great!". The main factor in coffee quality at a particular cafe is whether the owner/person-operating-the coffee-machine actually GAS about what they are doing.
A good breakfast is a must, pints of tea, magazines to thumb through all priced reasonably.
Like us all we have eaten and shared some fantastic places and some that are as cold as the Russian stepp on a winters day
My memories take to to Bernie’s Cafe in Ingleton in 1988 as what a cafe should be
Packed, buzzing and great staff ( apart from Bernie who was always a miserable git)
The majority of the cost isn’t in the tea bag, it’s in the rent, the wages, the infrastructure around it. The total difference in cost between coffee and tea is sod all.
I get that there are fixed cost but coffee machines are very expensive additional bit of machine to cover costs of in addition tea is a lot quicker to make. The tea shouldn't be paying for the coffe.
Why does everywhere else on their than coffee shop seem to be able to do a cup of tea for £1 or so then in a coffee shop it's over £2? Its because people are conditioned to the price for their drink.
Since it's Norway - Hvitdame as cake of choice. Good mix of pastries and savoury food - pizza? Indoor and outdoor seating (either open or with a simple shelter), plenty of space, good mix of table sixes but not rammed in. Plenty of bike parking places and basic tools / spares available. Local map / information on routes or trails.
Pretty much the above for me + big pots of tea available (although not sure about in Norway). Speedy service is normally key for me but in the location you describe it probably wouldn't be as important as lunch time cafe in the city.
Good coffee or decent tea in a mug that I can just chuck into my face while I'm eating some of your lovely homemade veggie food. I am happy to pay for nice things but please don't take the piss.
Zero faff. I don't want to be waiting ages and I don't want to be buggering about shifting dirty dishes off a table so I can sit down.
Friendly table service and not too much choice. Have a one or two ****ing [i]delicious[/i] hot dishes per day that may or may not include a massive breakfast. A good bean chili or chana gobi would be a decent veggie alternative to the Belly Buster Breakfast. I want something that I can just shovel in if I've been riding a bit. If you can build a reputation for always being able to supply good, tasty and ethical food to those who want it then you'll be on to a winner.
No children, babies or dogs. Thanks.
And that ^
Tj +1, 90 mins is ripping the piss.
I don't, and never really have, do the biking cafe stop thing, I guess it's more of a roadie thing, or you guys down south who MTB in semi urban areas?.
So not interested in bike storage and muck proof seats etc.
Good coffee, good cake, and a friendly smile.
And no dogs, absolutely 100% on that one.
A cafe stop can be if you're just out and about on your bike, like I might ride up to my mam's* which is 30-odd miles and fancy a cuppa or something, it doesn't necessarily have to be A Destination as such.
* not during lockdown, obvs.
Dogs are welcome by me, the kids can **** off though.
Not a cafe, but love going to the Three Poets pub at Ashover on a wintry Sunday for a carvery - sat by the fire, and lots of dogs
Kids are fine, if they're not, it's their parents that can **** off 🙂
Slowoldman, I spent years going in the Lover's Leap, hungover from the Moon and from sleeping in the woodshed. He had a very distinctive way of announcing a 'toasted tea cake'. Warm and wet was about as good as it got there, do the opposite.
Dont worry crikey. I will let the local cycling positive cafes down here know they are being silly having half a dozen tools on gear cables and a tracknpump. Ditto all the lifts in france and the garages in majorca
When I was a lad, the perfect stop was a small transport caff.
If the vans and trucks stopped there you were guaranteed a decent sized mug of tea and a big slab of whatever you ate. It was decent tasting fuel food, not Michelin star.
Coffee was Nescafe. 🙂
Basic wipe clean furniture, very quick service, usually roasting warm in winter and open at unfashionable hours.
Perfect.
Simple decent food in big portions, decent coffee, good bike parking with visibility and functional interior so you can pile in covered in mud.
From cafes of yore something like a mash-up of Pete's Eats, Roaches Tea Room (mmmm cheesy staffs oatcakes) and the Woodbine. Definitely not like the Grindleford. That place made the Lover's Leap look good.
Bernie’s in Ingleton used to be a good place to fuel up before sliding into some dark damp crevasse below Yorkshire’s limestone.
Ah, pre-caving breakfast would have been the truckstop in Nunney Catch on the way to the Mendips. It had a truck-shaped wooden counter and served massive portions. Ideal as I wouldn't then eat until home time, bar a helmet sized flapjack from the newsagent next to Bats in Wells.
This one looks good but I've only ever driven past it:
bike security, then coffee.
I want the coffee to taste at least as good as making a French press at home with Lidl ground coffee (the Indian Arabica is surprisingly good!). Far too many cafes think it acceptable to serve weak pish. Nowt wrong with a good filter coffee, it doesn't have to all be espresso.
I am asking because I live in a spot in Norway where riding is really on the up, this year especially has seen a huge influx in visitors for riding, trails are being built, facilities are being added and people know the place as an MTB destination. Thing is, we have nowhere for people to meet to start, pause or end a ride, there’s no hub or info point, there’s no hang out place and it seems we could do with one. So what does it need to be, from a rider’s point of view?
I think asking that on a largely UK centric forum could be a hiding to nothing. Norwegians are very different to brits. Prices are very different. Attitudes are different. Keep in mind that as a Cafe you are first and foremost a business - a place where people meet, hangout, and buy very little is a bad business. I'm surprised there is no infrastructure though - are there Cross Country Ski Trails in the area? Where do people go for their waffles and brown cheese?
Don't focus too heavily on it being a 'bikers' cafe unless you are located inside a trail centre. Five days a week the clientele for most cafes is retired people and mothers with young children.
My list:
- friendly staff who greet you with a smile
- tea served in a pot with enough for 2 or 3 cups
- a selection of awesome cake
- old, well worn leather sofas to lounge around on whilst chatting/eating/drinking
- paninis and sarnies
- fried breakfasts
- somewhere safe to leave your bike
- under cover outside seating area
Great coffee and cheaper coffee
Agree with this. If you ask me what size i want my flat white clearly you don't know any thing, and if you hand me a flat white the size of a latte you REALLY don't know anything.
I like a good cake but it also needs to be fresh, I hate it when they sell you old stale cake
If you weren't in Norway I'd suggest a trip to Cafe Velo Verde near Bingham. Probably the best thought out cycle focused cafe I've been to.
Cafes, don't you just love them. The tea is too expensive, I don't like the way they do their eggs etc etc
For me as I am sure others its about who runs the place (or doesn't run the place)
Also are we talking about an outdoor pursuits cafe's or where you go with the other half for a brunch with a bit of rocket and pine nuts on the side.
My all time favorite whilst peering through those rose tinted glasses will always be Bernie's Cafe in Ingleton circa 1987.
Get in there at about 08.30 and it was ram jammed, the tea was served in pint mugs and the breakfasts huge (as I remember) arrived in about 10 minutes.
Morning Cafes in an outdoor environment for me should be reasonably priced (not dirt cheap) and provide a full range of breakfasts, trail nibbles, magazines to read through and provide tea in quantities measured in gallons.
This choice of cafes was by the way a close call between Bernie's and Pete's Eats (another icon)
I think asking that on a largely UK centric forum could be a hiding to nothing. Norwegians are very different to brits.
This. You'll need a good selection of sheep's heads and a place to spit 'snus'.
Again, besides the suitability of fittings food and such is region specific. Your average Norwegian probably wouldn't touch half the stuff mentioned unless it was a novelty. By all means do a novelty option if people are interested but otherwise keep it simple.
Heck! Some strong opinions there. You're right though, Norway is certainly a different place to the UK, you might swap the coffee/tea importance around and Crikey's poncey coffee options would likely be comparable to having too many English tea options here ;). Good coffee and simple/cheaper filter coffee is a staple drink.
Still, good input from a lot of folk and it is very interesting to hear what people would like from a cafe, even if it seems to stretch to every end of the spectrum.
We might have to have a doggo friendly cafe though since we have our own trail hound!
https://www.instagram.com/p/CAz6jGHljOQ/
@morecashthandash - We'll be in the UK from Jan-March so could well visit the place you mention!
I think the place we're in is similar to Innerleithen in infrastructure/location. Small town with various facilities and trails just outside the town, some even arriving almost in the town. There are two buildings with most café facilities already installed which you could almost open tomorrow therefore the investment in setting up is greatly reduced. One of which is this nice little old building. (if anyone knows how to embed a Streetview image into a post then be my guest) 🙂
What happened to embedding Instagram posts?
it broke.
open past four/five (a closed cafe is never going to be great). Perhaps selling beers as well as coffee, crisps and salted peanuts too. Open fire, dartboard, lounge bar round the back...
Don't make it a 'mountain bikers' cafe'. You need all the customers you can get, not just MTBers.
For me, it'd be quick service (think about process here, if you are in the UK visit a Costa then a Starbucks and watch what the people behind the bar do, where they work and what they do), somewhere to lock bikes preferably with visibility from the seating, perhaps an area where you can be dirty (hard floor etc) but also a clean area if you aren't muddy.
Decent coffee and food of course. Cakes don't have to be home made but they have to be decent. And no sodding over-iced cupcakes.. they are popular with 'home made' cake people because they are easy to make, not because they are good to eat.
Also LOTS of cinnamon on lots of things. But then it's Norway so there probably will be 🙂
Don’t make it a ‘mountain bikers’ cafe’. You need all the customers you can get, not just MTBers.
I used to bake some cakes for a "cycling cafe" and, very occasionally, I worked there as well.
The cycling bit was really only at weekends, the rest of the time it became a haven for mothers - turned out there was a nursery just round the corner so after dropping their kids off, the Mums would all gather there for coffee and cake.
It was very open about being cycling themed - they had various roadsigns nicked from races across Europe, framed jerseys, cycling books, a big wallmap marked with routes but cyclists alone would not have sustained the place. Turned out that by making it warm and welcoming, it was a natural stopping point for nursery run Mums!
Tea in Teapots
If you are going to do breakfast, do a proper one and do it all day, decent bacon and sausage that doesn't taste of sawdust as a minimum, black pudding is much appreciated, i'd rather pay a bit extra for a good fryup rather than something that's beige and cheap. Good coffee is a bonus, cant be doing with instant stuff - tea you cant go too far wrong with. Stuff on toast but not on limp ****y supermarket slices and cake ovs...
@anyexcusetoride both Cafe Velo Verde and Cafe Allez at Belvoir Castle are pretty active on social media, so sure you can get a feel for them and probably get some tips and advice
@60.5699907,9.1004516,3a,75y,122.04h,94.88t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1s1QU-SjE9rPzqYmCI1F294A!2e0!6s%2F%2Fgeo3.ggpht.com%2Fcbk%3Fpanoid%3D1QU-SjE9rPzqYmCI1F294A%26output%3Dthumbnail%26cb_client%3Dmaps_sv.tactile.gps%26thumb%3D2%26w%3D203%26h%3D100%26yaw%3D234.42633%26pitch%3D0%26thumbfov%3D100!7i16384!8i8192" alt="The Grim Brothers Ginger Bread Cottage" />