[Closed] What is wrong with tradesmen?

Doing a 'Stoner' as it's now known?

Really don't think I'll be getting a hands free "run your office whilst u work" system anytime soon.

All such systems require a bit of executive decision making skill...

Yeah, I think the execute bit was the problem in my case...
I think I need to retrain and get an office job, learn to multitask a bit: "Do" my prescribed job, look at singletrack all day and polish my crown jewels all at the same time! 😀

I love the way people are almost spitting out the word 'tradesman'.
We all do different jobs just like everyone else who's employed. I don't start threads about the 'employed's' after I've had a problem with an estate agent or a hairdresser. Some of us work bloody hard (no tea break, no lunch) so can some of you stop treating me like a workshy roofer you once had a problem with just because I have to drive a white van to work.
Thanks.
(Sorry....that got a bit ranty. No offence intended)

If it's any consolation I'm having a similar problem in the USA.

Need some work doing on our house near Seattle - new (small) kitchen, one bathroom, some fencing. Probably about $50k of work (using low-end stuff).

Can I get a quote? Nope. Even using trades recommended from others.

Yes support for the tradesman here and white Tranny pick up driver although a new one
Dont get me started on council or public sector workers a sneeze and off for a week or two full pay, self employed no pay

would be nice to know the professions of the complainers for balance.

I'm a photographer (advertising/design/editorial) so im self employed too.
The idea of not turning up is simply not on unless there is a very good reason, and as for not letting people know?? That's just a piss poor attitude that unfortunately seems to be the norm for tradesmen who deal with the general public.

I employ other freelancers and if you were constantly late or didn't communicate you wouldn't last 5 minutes in my line of work.
I'm struggling to think of a valid reason for tradesmen to somehow be absolved from basic courtesy and good manners when conducting business?

My problem isn’t answering quick queries, it’s the long complex emails with numbered lists that need half an hour and quite a bit of research to answer that can’t be answered in a spare minute during the day.

Then have a standard reply ready then.
I use something like "hi, thanks for your enquiry, I'm on a location shoot today but will respond in full later." Or something similar.
If you can't allocate an amount of time in your day for admin tasks like responding to emails/quoting then you need to increase your rates enough to cover some admin time and not have to be producing/generating income every minute of the day.

in my experience i feel it's largely due to maximising profit and minimising hassle.

If you can't allocate an amount of time in your day for admin tasks like responding to emails/quoting then you need to increase your rates enough to cover some admin time and not have to be producing/generating income every minute of the day.

Hehe. Yeah right.

All that happens then, is that the STW IT crowd will go with the lowest quote, from the guy who hasn’t taken your advice and upped his rates.
And then moan about it on here afterwards because he’s so busy he never answers his phone.
Meanwhile, anyone that took your advice would have plenty of time to answer their phone while they were waiting in line at the food bank.

That was aimed at Ben, that's a specialist field that while not immune to pricing levels is probably more results driven than bottom dollar pricing.

I'm struggling to think of a valid reason for tradesmen to somehow be absolved from basic courtesy and good manners when conducting business?

I suspect part of the answer is in your story. Someone let you down and didn't communicate, yet you still asked them to complete the job for you.

My boiler needed a service last autumn. My usual guy wrote me a reminder. I rang him and gave him several days when I would be at home (shift worker). He didn't show so I rang him - "I'll call back in half an hour". I'm still waiting for that call.
Tried the guy who plumbed my new kitchen for a service this autumn. Long story blah di blah "I'll call back next week". He didn't so I rang him. "Yeah, next week definite". That was two months ago, still waiting.

I suspect part of the answer is in your story. Someone let you down and didn't communicate, yet you still asked them to complete the job for y

Had loads of trouble trying to find a plumber, found a good one who did the job 2 days later after quoting.
The chap who didn't turn up yesterday came today to fit locks and hang doors got the job done, I gave him a mince pie, made him a coupe of posh coffees and helped carry his tools down the stairs.
I just couldn't deal with telling him not to bother and then go through the whole process again of being let down again while finding somebody who can do the job and have the ability to send a text f they can't make it.

At no point have I ever queried a quote or asked for a cheaper deal, I even rounded up by a tenner when paying today's tradesmen.

Is it too much to expect a text or email saying "sorry, job has overrun, is tomorrow o.k?"
It took me a few seconds to write that sentence, it's not like it's difficult and texts come bundled in their thousands with mobile contracts these days.

Dont get me started on council or public sector workers a sneeze and off for a week or two full pay, self employed no pay

Well if we are defensive..... I work in public sector and have had two days off in 8 years. They were after a car accident.

I started this thread and still havnt managed to get a quote for the work. Three guys now all failed to show.

I don't bother with trades people much these days and tend to do most stuff myself. I have one good builder who is semi retired and likes odd jobs. Plumbers and heating engineers are like rocking horse shit round here and decorators have a highly inflated view of their day rates in my opinion.

Whoa there...no one forces anyone to get a decorator in, but there are an awful lot of people who can not, for one reason or another do it themselves.
If you think decorators have a highly inflated view of their day rates I seriously hope you never need a solicitor. If we all charged £100 a day there wouldn't be any decorators in Surrey as no one could afford to live here.

My boiler needed a service last autumn

When my boiler needs a service I just book it in online with British Gas who turn up at the exact time booked, It costs more but I pay for the service I want.

I arrange to have my boiler serviced a month before it needs it. I find building in a month buffer usually sees it getting done bang on time.

Get your boiler serviced in summer when they are much quieter.

As a gardener I get frustrated that everyone waits until peak growing season to get work done on their garden and get annoyed that they have to wait several weeks for the work to be fitted in when very often the work could be in quieter times. This has made me appreciate that some other trades have busy times so I generally get my chimney swept and boiler serviced in summer. The chimney guy was well chuffed and said he charged less in summer but still everyone normally waits till September/October and then the phone goes mad.

Then have a standard reply ready then.
I use something like "hi, thanks for your enquiry, I'm on a location shoot today but will respond in full later." Or something similar

Don’t people find those more annoying than not? I do - I think “Oh look, I’ve got a really quick reply.”

Much better than no reply, especially if the follow up happens when claimed

Don’t people find those more annoying than not? I do - I think “Oh look, I’ve got a really quick reply.”

Thanks for your great contribution. This is a reply just to let you know we have received your post, and one of our Jamies will get back to your shortly. We thank you for your patience. While you wait for a response, your answer may be found on our faq [url= https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ ]here[/url].

But email’s basically an electronic letter - you don’t get letters saying “Thanks for your letter, we’ll reply soon.”

If it was a personal email answering a couple of things but leaving a full reply until later, that’d be different. But an automated email response is basically just an acknowledgment of receipt.

Edit: 😀

Just had new kitchen floor put in, got two quotes. One was more expensive and was just a price with no breakdown so we asked for a breakdown, nothing, emailed and phoned several times, nothing. Went with the cheaper quote, all fitted and good now. More expensive quote had several recommendations but if someone asks I'll not be passing their details on.

But email’s basically an electronic letter - you don’t get letters saying “Thanks for your letter, we’ll reply soon.”

'sorry I'm busy I'll get back to you later' means I'll wait. Total silence means you're off the list.

If you think decorators have a highly inflated view of their day rates

As the saying goes 'if you can piss you can paint' 😆

One was more expensive and was just a price with no breakdown so we asked for a breakdown, nothing, emailed and phoned several times, nothing.

Reads to me as up to their armpits in work so can pick and choose the best jobs to work on. If you have too much work then some narrowing down will take place. The trades person will be assessing you just as much as you think you are assessing them. So possibly asking for break down to them maybe a warning flag that you are going to quibble on price so you go to the bottom of the pile. It sucks but if they are highly recommended and busy but have been messed about by customers in the past they may be using criteria to decide if they want the job the same as you have your criteria as to whether to hire them.

? This.

Can I have a breakdown?
Why not just ask 'How much profit are you making?'

It signals to me someone who wants to beat price down, which is fine if you start high with that intention.
Personally, it's not how I work.

Having bought a kitchen once, I appreciate that it is the norm for some though.

I used to have "real" jobs before chucking it all in for the lucrative ( 😆 ) world of hardwood flooring. Most of the jobs I did involved contact with customers (internal & external), including a few actual technical customer support type jobs - so I've seen it from both* sides.

* When I say "both", I mean from both a white collar more businessy environment and a rough'n'tumble tradey sitey type side.

For me, from my experience with dealing with other trades on sites, I think a lot of frustration you guys are experiencing comes down to procrastination when it comes to delivering "bad" news. A lot of the trades will have been time-served since school, and have possibly never had any training when it comes to dealing with the more difficult side of customer service. i.e. managing customer expectations, delivering bad news and under-promising/over-delivering.

Now, personally, I always aim to keep appointments and would never not turn up for a chat about a job without letting someone know, let alone not turning up for actual work booked in. However, when I can start a job a few days or weeks early and I know the client will be delighted to hear it, I'm positively bursting to tell them; can't get the text or email off soon enough. When I'm going to miss a start-date or appointment, I'm agonising for a while about how to tell them. You'll get an idea at the start of a job that it's going to run over but you hope against hope that you'll have a "good" day where everything goes your way and it'll all be back on track again. I think when it comes to delivering bad news, a lot of guys find it hard to make that leap. I've always understood that whatever the badness of the news, people would rather know in plenty of time so they can plan around the delay - and they'll appreciate you letting them know (I always use the "if it was [i]your[/i] job and it was running over, I wouldn't be leaving it unfinished to start something else..." line). But I think that a lot of guys just struggle to get past the reluctance to give the bad news - and they don't understand the frustration it causes.

Construction is really busy at the moment so there's a world of sites crying out for subbies who don't want the problems of dealing with Joe Public directly. Also, there are labourers on site to clean and tidy after them, a site manager to tell what needs to be done to get the job ready, no quotes/estimates to do, no long email conversations where the client is asking loads of questions and expecting answers to absolutely everything etc. etc. etc. This means that you guys, while possibly more lucrative than sub-contract work, but also needing more hand-holding and management are not getting the attention you both require and feel that you deserve.

None of this is to excuse poor customer service - but good customer service doesn't come naturally to a lot of people, let alone those who aren't trained. Some guys are good at it. A lot aren't. Always get a recommendation and if that person lets you down, let the person who recommended them know how shite they've been.

It is very short sighted of tradespeople not to be upfront with prospective customers. They might be rushed of their feet now, but what about next year or the year after? I have several guys now off my list as if they cannot even send a quote after spending the time to come round to quote there is no point.

On the plus side, all this waiting around has meant I've read up on things and taught myself how to do several of the jobs that needed sorting. In the new year I will be having a crack at converting a garage and replacing a bathroom myself without have to beg someone to take my money

Sometimes, tradespeople struggle with phrasing "I thought you were a massive cock and don't want to do the work for you." into something more polite. 🙂

In my experience (about 15 years in and around construction) the best skilled trades often don't make good business people, whether that be turning up when they say they will, providing quotes, invoicing in a timely manner, producing certificates, or just answering the phone.

Of course, the flip side is that the business savvy and well organised are often not the most highly skilled or desirable. I see quite a lot more average, or below average quality trades/builders 'get on' and make the big money than the best guys.

Of course that's a generalisation, and there are exceptions. Maybe part of it's just how their personalities work, the really skilled guys focus on every little detail and do a brilliant technical job on site, but can't be arsed with office time and admin.

None of this is to excuse poor customer service - but good customer service doesn't come naturally to a lot of people, let alone those who aren't trained.

i agree with most of what you said but struggle with the concept of ‘training’
my parents trained me to offer a seat to older people, don't but in, say please thank-you, general human interaction and to be aware of others outside my own little world of action man, DrWho and space 1999.

why are some tradespeople lacking in general everyday people skills? do they really need to have this stuff written down on a crib sheet FFS!

deadlydarcy - Member
Sometimes, tradespeople struggle with phrasing "I thought you were a massive cock and don't want to do the work for you." into something more polite.

Haha, quite!

Also translated as "you don't look like you're competent at working the kettle. I'll go and do a job for Mrs Warburton who'll be emptying out the biscuits and stewing the tea before I've even looked at the last one"

😀

Had someone in earlier to do some flooring. Useless twonk couldn't even take a door of its hinges.

No chance of me making him a cup of tea, that's for sure.

CaptainFlashheart - Member

Had someone [u]I[/u] earlier to do some flooring. Useless twonk couldn't even take a door [u]of[/u] its hinges.

No chance of me making him a cup of tea, that's for sure.

Posted 7 minutes ago # Report-Post

Could he type a coherent post into a forum, though?

Could he type a coherent post into a forum, though?

he struggles, let me tell you. 🙂

i agree with most of what you said but struggle with the concept of ‘training’

You make a very valid point, and while I'm not excusing the poor communication skills and levels of service, I'm simply offering an explanation for why us guys have a bad reputation.

I've noticed that among the guys I know, there are a wide variety of backgrounds...probably the majority "time-served", but quite a few ex-teachers, ex-corporate drones, ex-squaddies...etc. You get my drift I'm sure. Invariably, it's the ex-squaddies which are often best at communicating with customers and being easy to get hold of - I guess their background means they know how important it is to let everybody know what's going on and what's going to happen, so they just do it naturally. But yeah, those that have spent a bit of time away from sites and their trades [i]generally[/i] perform better when it comes to customer service.

There is a bit of a culture of "clients eh? who needs 'em?!" and if I'm honest, I indulge in a bit of it myself when on site, but only because my alternative response which starts as "You realise you're not [i]really[/i] your own boss don't you?" is only going to get me beaten up. 🙂 But, the point is, a lot of these guys get no lessons in customer service from any of their superiors, be they parents or the guy they work for - I often wonder if they're taught anything when on their day release at college...but I don't know. And they are utterly convinced that they are their own bosses - and that actually, that's untrue. Your client is your "boss" as well as your customer and that, yes, some of them are cocks but at least you don't have to sit across an office from them for the next few years. So, master of your own destiny? Yes. Your own boss? Kinda, but not really.

None of it is excusable to be honest, and it annoys me as much as the rest of you - and I've probably had a few experiences where I handled customers badly myself but the converse is I've also had experiences where the client thinks that their little job is the only thing being done in the whole world this decade, but I approach each one with the full benefit of the doubt and don't tar them all with the same brush.