[Closed] What is going on with Jack Straw?

We have to stop pussy footing around and stop worrying about offending people because they are Muslims. You'll notice how much Straw backpedalled in that statement by saying that most sex offenders in prison were white (which they are). Can you imagine the reaction if he said that a disproportionate number of violent criminals were black?
The culture, fueled by stupid religeous beliefs facilitates and even justifies this kind of behaviour. He more or less says this.
Basically these are young guys that want to shag some birds, just as we all did in our teens and early 20's but this difference is we had local girlfriends to do this with.
The lack of respect for women and non-muslims can allow this to happen IMO. It's the religion/culture to blame. These guys are by far in the minority of ****stanis and/or muslims in this country just as much as those who carry out 'honour killings' and acts of terrorism etc. It's important to bear that in mind. Also, as Mr Straw pointed ou, you would be more likely to be raped by a white UK citizen (it's ok to say this though).
Cue the PC brigade to shoot this down and call me a racist or stupid, but if you read this properly you'll see that isn't the case. The large part of these communities will be just as incensed by these crimes as the rest of us. It's religion that has got to go.
So there.

agree with KT, unfortunately certain cultures or religions can lead to slightly different nature of crimes being committed across that particular demographic, addressing this is not at all racist, fascist or intolerant. All walks of life do pretty bad things but understanding the differences that can cause a certain style of crime to become more common in one culture rather than another is fine.

Good example would be violent gun crime being more common is urban areas rather and rural, its ok to identify this and hope to focus specialized resources for this issue into the urban areas and not rural areas.... this is million miles away from generalizing or presuming all city dwellers trigger happy psychos.

Some cultures have different views towards women and sex, naturally the crimes against women and crimes that involve sex can have different reasons behind them - its fine to address this.

There's some pretty disgusting opinions on that page spongebob. If there is a problem with persons within a certain age, sex and denomination (I'm not saying there is) then it should be dealt with sensitively, quietly and objectively with no room for sensationalism or feeding racists with ammunition, which is where mr straw has dropped a testicle.

I don't think he has (dropped a ...). He's been about as forthright on something as difficult as this as a polition could be expected to be.

Good for him.

Imagine it was your daughter folks. It's not on.

With you on this KT

i'm with none of you except the OP.

Straw is a stupid thick populist. I am not suprised at all that he would say something this stupid.

He may be factually correct but the conclusions he draws are highly stupid.

he has previous tho.

Just as well he is of no influence now

One of the most stupid politicians we have ever had in a position of power

Why do these young ****stani men consider Caucasian girls of a barely-pubescent age to be ripe targets for their predation, but young girls of the same age who belong to their own ethnic group to be untouchable objects of veneration?

Or is that a "stupid" question...

KT sums it up pretty much perfectly for me.

getting pretty sick of the uber liberal crap these days and I have much more respect for people who call is as they see it, if he's wrong then so what. discuss, educate and correct then move on.

The culture, fueled by stupid religeous beliefs facilitates and even justifies this kind of behaviour......The lack of respect for women and non-muslims can allow this to happen IMO. It's the religion/culture to blame.

Imagine it was your daughter folks. It's not on.

actually my mistake even they posted this

The Daily Mail quoted Mohammed Shafiq, chief executive of Muslim organisation the Ramadhan Foundation, as saying: "No community or faith ever sanctions these evil crimes, and to suggest that this is somehow ingrained in the community is deeply offensive."

We should not be worried about being PC on this issue but personally I think it is the fear of fuelling racist that makes people less likely to discuss this rather than fear of appearing to be non PC. Look at this thread anti Muslim from the first reply with some supporting thi view. It is an issue that needs addressing but knee jerk blamings of an entire religion/culture/community for ingrained attitudes towards women is simplistic and innacurate.
PS surely better he had done this as Home secretary rather than in opposition.

EDIT: Whoppit is it not just ****stani men who try and get laid by white women. Surely we can all agree white women[or men] are more promiscous than Muslim women[men] or indeed any other devout person whose religion preaches not to have sex in wedlock.

Stories like this are always going to stir things up a bit, which is precisely why the media report such things. What the media won't tell you, is that many 'Islamic' communities are already working to address such issues; when I worked as a Youth Worker 18 years ago, we did workshops with groups of young Bangladeshi lads, who had similar attitudes towards women. There was a recognition amongst many in the community, that the problem of young men being required to live a 'good Muslim life' in a country where social norms can differ very greatly from their parents' wishes, created a situation where the boys felt compelled to go out and prove themselves as 'men', by having sex with women. If there are no women of your own culture available, you will naturally look elsewhere. As a mixed-race bloke, I did have things somewhat easier, I must say.

The untold stories are things like the number of abortions and adoptions that are prevalent in such communities; the lack of understanding of sexual health amongst Asian women, and ignorance surrounding contraception. Stuff that doesn't make for juicy headlines, but important issues nonetheless.

Using a different perspective, the sexualisation of women from a very young age is something I find quite disturbing at times, and it's interesting that the West often seeks to impose it's cultural values on others, yet could do with taking a good hard look at it's own behaviour. Certainly, some of the sexist and misogynist comments that regularly crop up on here, show that in fact many White British men have reprehensible attitudes towards women too, as indeed men from all cultures. So it's not just a '****stani' or Muslim' thing. In fact, it has very little indeed to do with Islam anyway. Islam demands that women are treated with respect. Again, a fact that the media chooses to ignore in favour of juicy headlines.

Personally I don't think Straw's done owt wrong apart from choosing one particular group for criticism. Maybe if he mentioned such a thing in the broader context of attitudes towards women in general, then fair enough.

So I'd agree with KT on some points, but from my own experience, it's not one particular culture or religion that's to blame, but points towards a deeper and more sinister aspect of our wonderful Western society.

Best not to google Jack Straws brother then 8O.

My considered opinion is that he's still a fudd.

Still, if you remove the words "****stani" and "white" from his comments they become completely accurate:

"There is an undeniable problem with a small minority of men targeting vulnerable girls. These girls almost exclusively come from chaotic families. Some are in care. Otherwise they would not be out on the streets, aged 12, 13, 14."

Why do these young ****stani men consider Caucasian girls of a barely-pubescent age to be ripe targets for their predation, but young girls of the same age who belong to their own ethnic group to be untouchable objects of veneration?

Or is that a "stupid" question...

It's not a stupid question. An ignorant one, yes, but not a stupid one.

The question can be simplified thussly, without losing it's validity:

[i]Why do men consider girls of a barely-pubescent age to be ripe targets for their predation?[/i]

To me, this is the question our society should be asking first.

I suspect they were targeting young vulnerable girls not white specifically - it is a part of the way the various communities interact that there are far more likely to be vulnerable white girls than brown

This is only a guess tho

To me, this is the question our society should be asking first.

I could not agree with you more.

Remember this incredible bit of hypocrisy?

[img] [/img]

To me, this is the question our society should be asking first.

I could not agree with you more.

+1

First i'd like to say that coming from Bradford and having a wife who works as a copper in Keighley i can confirm that this kind of behaviour is sadly quite common.

There are lots of unfortunate young girls, often in care to whom this attention is seen as 'love'.

It is asian men in this area that do this crime and due to the girls being plied with booze/drugs they struggle to provide good evidence for the police.

Its years since Anne Cryer brought this subject to our attention round here.

My question is why did Jack Straw wait till he was out of power to try and do something? Why did Gerry Sutcliffe wait till he was out of power to try and start a debate on legalising prostitution?

Cowards the lot of them..?

Jack Straw was covered by the subjudicae rules and had to wait for the end of the court case.

Also for ones who didnt google jack straws brother from above post.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/916179.stm

Ee, the dirty nonce! 😯

So, why isn't jack Straw talking about the problem of middle-aged White men predating on young girls then?

[img] [/img]

Or indeed white men in positions of power and[url= http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kincora_Boys%27_Home ]young boys at Kincora[/url] amongst other scandals

My wife used to work in a barbers on Abbeydale Rd in Sheffield and thus cut a lot of ****stani/Asian mens hair. They were without exception, the rudest, most ignorant and sexually demeaning of all the men she had to deal with.

One man with his poor wife (and kids) in tow, told my wife that he "wanted to sniff her c**t". He was in his 40's and my wife was 21 at the time.

As an aside, experiences during my life have often led me to wonder if simple manners are part of the Muslim culture, as they certainly seem to be conspicuous in their absence for the majority.

As an aside, experiences during my life have often led me to wonder if simple manners are part of the [b]Muslim culture[/b], as they certainly seem to be conspicuous in their absence for the majority.

See, it's ignorance like this what causes division between folk.

I can pretty much guarantee I know an [i]awful[/i] lot more Muslim folk than you do, STR. And whilst there are scumbaygs in all communities, I'm not disputing that, the vast majority of Muslim people in [i]my[/i] experience are decent and polite.

Friend of mine lives in Bradford. His wife is white and blonde. She gets crap off young Asian blokes, which she chooses not to get worked up about, although it is annoying. There are definitely problems within certain minority communities, which should (and often are) being addressed. A young woman who ius a teacher lives opposite me. She's told me about the grief she gets from some of the young Bangladeshi lads, some as young as 12-13. Yes, it's pretty shocking. Yes, it should be dealt with. It's completely and utterly unacceptable. Which is why education and understanding between different cultures is important.

But what tends to happen, in instances such as this, is certain communities then come under fire from ignorant and bigoted people, who have little or no real genuine understanding of communities and cultures outside of their own little bubbles. People like STR in fact; sorry, but you just come across as pretty culturally ignorant on here, based on some of your posts over the years. You certainly don't help yourself with comments like that.

I've known a few Asians/****stani's Elfin who've been perfectly fine, decent people.

Don't start calling me ignorant though when based on my experience of working in Wolverhampton, Birmingham, Sheffield and many other places, including my wife's experiences, the majority encountered in every day life (not on a social/personal level) are inexcusably rude, ignorant and lacking in simple manners. It's a fact, however you want to try and twist it against me.

Maybe you have to get to know people from a certain culture before they'll offer you some simple courtesy, I don't know, but I speak as I find.

Blah blah blah some of my best friends etc etc etc...

Heard it all before mate. Many, many times.

To make you feel better, I've had crap off all sorts; rich, poor, Black, White, Brown, etc. 🙂

Interesting that you've chosen to use this thread as a space to vent certain feelings towards particular 'types' of people. I'd be more interested in your views on the overt sexualisation of young women, and whether you think this is an issue that requires consideration, actually. Any thoughts?

Setting aside any racial overtones.

Jack Straw speaks the truth.

Various ****stani groups have agreed that this is a very real phenomenon. By that I mean a growing number of younger lads thinking that these girls are infidels who are dressed provocatively and not commanding the same respect that a female of their own faith would.

Elfinsafety
See, it's ignorance like this what causes division between folk.

No, its the secular teaching and communities that encourage that. Its the same with Catholic and Protestant schooling here in the west of Scotland. [i]These[/i] are the divisive factors in our colonised communities, and the root cause of our ethnic and religious 'issues'

I can pretty much guarantee I know an awful lot more Muslim folk than you do

Blah, blah yourself - I never claimed to have any 'best friends', so don't start flinging that crap at me.

You seem inable to accept my claim that in my experience Asians are without exception the rudest people I've encountered. As it happens, I've never had any 'crap' off any Asian groups, I just don't find them (to the most) very polite in daily encounters.

Interesting too that you seemed to completely ignore the main point of my post to pick up on something that you could 'have a go' at.

My wife has dealt individually with thousands of men on a daily basis during her career - the incident I mentioned above is just one that sticks in my memory. The comment was in the context of the thread and although Asian/****stani men make up a small majority of the people she's dealt with, they are responsible for the majority of sexually demeaning comments that she's received. Are you going to accuse her of making it up, or being an ignorant bigot?

The sexualisation of young women is a different matter that I may go into later on. I have no problem with the glamourous side of the entertainment industry, but the age at which sexualisation begins sickens me sometimes - having a 10yr old daughter and knowing that her friends wear thongs and seeing them in high heels etc is bang out of order imo.

its a double edged sword for jack
there is undeniably an issue here, the case proves it
however its a subject easily overegged and dissproportionatly reported by the media
giving fuel to racists and biggots to write off an entire culture as inferior to god fearing white brits

Straw said: "There is an undeniable problem with a [b]small minority[/b] of ****stani-heritage men targeting vulnerable white girls

He said it was a small minority of a certain race in direct response to an actual case of a gang of ****stani men raping white girls in Derby.

The trouble with this country and this forum, is that if you dare to say anything that could be slightly construed at bigotry, then it's jumped all over. Tell me what JS said that isn't true.

When I was doing the workshops back in my Youth Worker days, it was clear that many of the young lads saw White women as 'inferior' to Bangladeshi/Muslim women., So, we asked them why they thought this, and tried to work out where the attitudes were coming from.

Now, understand that Sex is not a common subject for discussion in many religious households, certainly not so with many Bangladeshi Muslim households that I have experienced. So, young people are taking clues from where? The Media, shops, the World around them and from peers from other communities. Many of these lads din't see their 'own' women as sexual objects, far from it. So virtually their entire image of female sexuality was coming from 'Western' sources. It was White women they mainly saw in 'skimpy' clothing, in clubs, being overtly sexual. Hence their pretty ignorant and distorted views and attitudes.

Who is to blame for that? Not Islam itself, as I've already explained. Maybe the attitudes of their fathers and other males in their communities din't help reinforce an sort of positive female image. And sexual segregation meant they would have little contact with women from within their own community. All this, in a society where it's deemed acceptable, even encouraged, for women to behave in a more sexual manner, and wear more sexually provocative clothing, than the culture these lads came from.

It was hard work to get these lads to change just even a bit. One of them refused to attend the workshops (we had to bribe them with trips to Wales etc as a reward for attending), calling it 'respec da bitches' class 🙁

The combination of cultural ignorance and diversity, together with the pressure to prove masculinity, makes for less than ideal attitudes, sadly.

I agree that communities need to do a lot more to become integrated into a homogenised British culture and society, and that various factors influence matters and can act as obstacles.

I don't agree however that this is an 'Asian' or 'Muslim' problem. I think it's a [i]British[/i] one.

The trouble with this country and this forum, is that if you dare to say anything that could be slightly construed at bigotry, then it's jumped all over.

I know. It's terrible that other people have conflicting ideas to your own, isn't it? Most annoying... 😕

Hang on a minute, we can't have politicians saying inflammatory things like that...

Good post elf!

Young ****stani men are picking up very young, vulnerable Caucasian girls, feeding them drink and drugs and making them believe that this is love.

They are then passing the corrupted girls (who, being very young and inexperienced, don't know any better) on to their older male relatives who proceed to rape them repeatedly.

As I understand it, the perpetrators consider the young girls to be of less worth than the girls of similar age in their own ethic/religious group because of the way they behave and the way they dress, ie: they think of them as "sluts" and deserving of their fate, unlike the girls from their own background, who dress more modestly and don't behave in as outgoing a manner.

This view is, of course, complete nonsense and totally perverse. The Caucasian victims are simply very young people of a certain social mileu who behave the way they do because they have been raised to see it as the "norm" and dress the way they do because they think it is "fashionable". Typical teenage girls, in fact.

The poverty of understanding within the group of perpetrators as to these facts which, along with their arrogance and self-assumed superiority (bought on no doubt atleast in part, by their ridiculous religion) leads them to see only white pieces of meat.

This is not just a question of general crime, but is bound up in other, contentious issues of race, religion, culture, misogyny and perverse sexuality and to claim that it is no different from any other superficially similar crime is disingenuous, to say the least.

No Elf - there's conflicting opinions, then there's being called a bigot because you dare to post a comment about your personal experiences.

Elfinsafety (we had to bribe them with trips to Wales etc as a reward for attending), calling it 'respec da bitches' class

ffs that's progressive.

[i]One of the most stupid politicians we have ever had in a position of power [/i]

You're wrong TJ, Jack Straw is one of the most able Politicians of the current era. And that is not something anyone should be proud of... 😐

He'd happily sell his relatives to progress, one J. Straw.

And if he is saying this, then its because he thinks there is mileage in it for him.

And as for the 'young' Asian mens attitudes, of course he is right - the ones down here think they own the place. Gobby little s****.

And if he is saying this, then its because he thinks there is mileage in it for him.

A cynical person would guess that there might be a bye-election in a North-Western constituency sometime soon,,,

And as for the 'young' Asian mens attitudes, of course he is right - the ones down here think they own the place. Gobby little s****.

😕

I find that young men, regardless of colour, tend to behave like this in general really.

BR - I have to disagree. I never had time for straw.

AS an aside about how complex this interaction between Muslim men and white women is: I employed 2 Muslim men as domestics in a nursing home I ran. Thier immediate boss was a white working class woman and they had difficulty in taking instruction from her - but equally she had difficulty in treating them as a valued part of the team and was always looking for fault

However the residents loved them - they treated the elderly female residents with a courtesy that you rarely see and that the residents cherished

[i]BR - I have to disagree. I never had time for straw.[/i]

TJ - I didn't say I had time for him, in fact for me he is one of the worst - you need to read what I actually said.

what is also not being said is where are the parents of these girls?

by vulnerable, i assume they are in social care
so theyve been failed by their white parents and society

poverty and deprivation poor education etc are the real issues here in modern british society and its true regardless of skin colour or culture of the victims or perpatrators

poverty and deprivation poor education etc are the real issues here in modern british society and its true regardless of skin colour

Didn't Straw and the rest of NuLab wipe out child poverty and devote themselves to "Education, education, education" in their many years in power? No?

Oh, my mistake, sorry. They just spouted mindless platitudes and lined their pockets. Criminal scum the lot of them.

Of course, I am sure that somehow, someone will blame teheviltoryscum for all of the failings you list above, because it can't have been anything to do with the last decade of Labour mismanagement of their beloved client state, can it?

and wasnt it the previous tory government that laid waste to the region in the 1st place

[url= http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/7514567.stm ]Not just a British problem[/url]
and Junkyard, you know fine well....

Didn't Straw and the rest of NuLab wipe out child poverty and devote themselves to "Education, education, education" in their many years in power? No?

Well they did a hell of a lot more to alleviate it than your mob ever have done, Flashy.

Not that you know anything about Child Poverty anyway, other than what you saw on telly once... 🙄

Its high time we moved away from calling things like this racist.

Its a fact its happened and right now its still happening.

We need less 'up in arms', more 'facing reality' and then we can get on with fixing the problem.

I am afraid their "high moral", culture or religion or both, dominates their thinking as they see others as lower beings of loose morals so convinced themselves to have the rights to violate. No surprise there.

In the name of Dear Leader he will not object to waterboarding them for fun due to his supreme moral rights on all beings. 😈

The people that did this are arsehole paedophiles, last year it was a gang of White men doing this shit. We should concentrate on ensuring vulnerable young women of any ethnicity are protected against these kind of people.

Mr Woppit - Member

"Young ****stani men are picking up very young, vulnerable Caucasian girls, feeding them drink and drugs and making them believe that this is love."

Again, remove the word "****stani" from that sentence and you're golden.

"As I understand it, the perpetrators consider the young girls to be of less worth than the girls of similar age in their own ethic/religious group because of the way they behave and the way they dress, ie: they think of them as "sluts" and deserving of their fate, unlike the girls from their own background, who dress more modestly and don't behave in as outgoing a manner."

Or- try this one on- they do it to these girls because it's relatively easy, whereas they don't do it to girls from their own background because it's relatively difficult. Predators target the vulnerable. Is it any more complicated than that? Motive and [i]opportunity[/i].

And if a man targets a vulnerable kid- on the streets or otherwise exposed- then chances are, it's going to be a white kid, it's simple numbers here.

Also, it's not a racial or ethnic thing that makes rapists try to justify their actions- "She deserved it, dressing like that, she was asking for it, she knew what she was doing, the slag". Does anyone seriously believe that this is a ****stani trait rather than a sh*tehawk trait?

The Egyptian thing we've seen.

My wife took my son for a weeks' holiday/diving in Sharm el Sheikh a few years ago, never again.

The Asians who worked there were fine, but the Egyptians treated her as though she was a 'whore'.

BR - I don't think he is "one of the most able Politicians of the current era"

I think he is a stupid small mined bigot with the common sense of a treestump and the political nous of a teabag

Jack Straws 'surprise' handshake with Mugabe was good though 😀

mugboo + 1

im from blackburn and I have to say that from my experience I think he has a point. Obviously not all young muslim men but its certainly an underestimated problem.

I have yet to see any evidence of this frequent and relatively widespread activity, as described, being engaged in by any other large ethnically-identifiable group of any significant size.

woppit...... apart from white british men as straw said they make up the majority of paedophiles in prisons
so the answer is simple sterilise any white male who spends a lot of time on the internet

Different crime. Different ethnic grouping.

At the risk of breaking some obscure law, I'll just say that I've seen the down-side of the Jack Straw comments.

A few years ago, I was a juror on a rape trial. Tall, blonde scandinavian girl. Turkish-German guy. Before we'd even heard any evidence, we retire to the jury room, whereupon two male jurors started to chat about it and decided that he was guilty because "you know how his sort treat women".

Whether Jack Straw is correct or incorrect in his views, it is stupid of him to allow himself [i]to be seen[/i] to be racist in this way.

Loads of ****stani lads in Hounslow are poorly educated as they can't be bothered. Owning a BMW 320 from the '90s matters more to many of them than education. These will go on the pull looking for young naive girls. I've seen it way too many times there, sadly.
The educated ones don't tend to behave like that. Again, from personal experiences.
I don't think all ****stani lads are bad, loads are because they don't know any other option. Not a good excuse, is it?

Yeah but Hairy; again, I could say exactly the same thing about white or black lads round here. Young lads are young lads. Why are you picking up on their colour/ethnicity? And do you specifically mean the ****stanis? Only most Asians in Hounslow are of Indian origin.

Mr Woppit - Member

"I have yet to see any evidence of this frequent and relatively widespread activity, as described, being engaged in by any other large ethnically-identifiable group of any significant size."

Have you seen any evidence of this activity being frequent and widespread in the ****stani community either?

Following on from earlier comments of mine and a bit off topic I expect a flaming, but I have a genuine question.......

Whenever I work in a city, I see a lot of very, very flash cars driving around, predominately driven by young Asian men. This isn't a one off observation, it's very common.

Does anyone know why this is such a common feature of big cities? They may well have been earned legitimately, although they never seem to be being used in a work capacity. Do Aian men work hard and play hard as a rule - I know the eduction and work ethic can be a driving force amongst Asians, hence a lot of successful graduates, doctors etc? It just seems to me that there seems to be a lot of Porsche's, BMW's, Merc's and Ferrari's being driven around by Asians in their 20's and early 30's not doing a lot else.

As I say, it may be a tough work ethic, hence the reason I don't see so many lazy assed white boys in the same fortunate situation....

Have you seen any evidence of this activity being frequent and widespread in the ****stani community either?

Isn't that what we are talking about?

TheArtistFormerlyKnownAsSTR, two things count here;
Living at home with parents/family
Living on credit cards

Mr Woppit - Member

Have you seen any evidence of this activity being frequent and widespread in the ****stani community either?"

Isn't that what we are talking about?

There's been one recent highly public case. So have you seen any evidence of this activity being frequent and widespread in the ****stani community?

STR; re the flashy cars:

A car is a very desirable thing, amongst many young men in general, but particularly with young Asian men, it's true. I do know that where I live, young lads will buy BMWs and that on finance a lot, yet work hard to pay them off. Lots live with family, so have low living costs. Hence they can 'afford' a nice motor. There are an awful lot of repossessions, and in fact many cars are picked up cheap at repo auctions!

As for the Porsches and Ferraris etc; quite a few will be hired out for the day/week, particularly at festivals like Eid. Several lads will chip in, so they can drive around in a nice motor for the day. Bloody daft all that, if you ask me, but hey ho.

Some happen to just be rich. Brown people can be wealthy too you know. Where I live, I see young white men driving about in flashy cars, but people rarely comment on such things.

I know some blokes my age who drive Porsches and that, but that's because they co-own a successful restaurant. Some Asians are very resourceful and just know how to make money. Like Anyone I spose.

Hope that answers a few questions for you. You do seem to have a lot of assumptions about Asian people though, yet display little real knowledge of their culture and lifestyle. Seems like you see young Asian lads in nice cars, and think 'where did they get the money for that from?' Almost as though you resent them having nice things. Do you feel the same if you see a young white lad in a nice motor?

Of course, some of 'em could be drug dealers. You get a few of them round my way too...

Elf, because in my experience ****stani lads were leaving school earlier than Indian ones.
Besides, most Indians there are Hindu not Muslims.

TheArtistFormerlyKnownAsSTR - we get a lot of that kind of thing around these parts (Republic of Mancunia)

The area I live in has a very large Asian community. It always makes me laugh. The Asian lads dive around it properly pimped our Scoobies and Beemers. Spoilers all over the shop and tacky graphics. Everything screams "LOOK AT ME!!!!!!!!!"

They get out of their ego-chariots and they're dressed head to toe in Armani, loads of bling. Again, all screaming "LOOK AT ME!!!!!!!!!"

They seem to be taking all their cues from horrible bling gangsta rap culture

Then you'll see them with their wives. Their wives will always (and I do mean ALWAYS) be in traditional modest Muslim clothing. Always with headscarves and sometimes fully veiled.

The rank hypocrisy of these Muslim has to be seen at close quarters to be believed

The rank hypocrisy of these Muslim has to be seen at close quarters to be believed

Binners; have a look at this forum. Have a look at the 'who's got the blingest bike' thread. Think about all the 'What watch shall I buy for £5000' type threads. People on here like to show off too, they just do it in different ways. As for attitudes towards women; how many blokes on here post up pics of sexy women, leer over them and make comments about 'kicking back doors in' and other such crap? Yet would they accept it if it were another bloke talking about their wife, sister or daughter? Would they hell. Hypocrites? Yep.

I agree that there are issues surrounding the attitudes of some young Asian men towards women. I've tried to offer explanation and insight, in order that others may try to learn and understand. I don't deny that there are problems within our communities.

What disappoints me, is it seems to have become an opportunity for some people to attack cultures and groups they obviously have very little understanding of, and are resentful towards. Some proper boneheaded ignorance on here sometimes.

As for 'Ego Chariots', I wonder where they got the idea from?

[img] [/img]

Elfin - every time I see a nice motor, I'll look up and working in cities 90% of the time they are driven by Asians.

Occassionally I'll see a Porsche, or a Ferrari driven by a 20/30 something white bloke and it crosses my mind how they've made their money just as it does with an Asian lad - it just doesn't happen as often.

I spend all day, every day working at the side of the road. I'm not making this up, it's just an observation.

I don't resent anyone having any material possession (earned legitimately) and as I intimated in my previous post if an asian lad has gained wealth through a good work ethic, then all the best to them - I'm cynical to say the least and would go so far as to say your lack of cynisysm may even be a bit naive.

Elfin - every time I see a nice motor, I'll look up and working in cities 90% of the time they are driven by Asians.

So what? So they've got a nice motor. Why do you notice what colour they are? Why's that even relevant? I'd say 99% of all mountain bikers I've seen are White. What does that mean?

Strikes me you're resentful, because someone's got something you haven't.

I'm cynical to say the least and would go so far as to say your lack of cynisysm may even be a bit naive.

What is your cynicism based on? Considering your obvious lack of real knowledge of Asian culture.

S'ok; I'm reading between the lines here. I know what you're saying. And as I said earlier; heard it all before....

Strikes me you're resentful, because someone's got something you haven't.

Elfinism innit 😉

Erm, no Z-11, but carry on being deluded.

Why do you notice what colour they are? Why's that even relevant? I'd say 99% of all mountain bikers I've seen are White. [b]What does that mean?[/b]

That you've noticed 99% of them are white?

Why do you notice what colour they are?

Can't say it's ever crossed my mind what colour an MTB'er is, as it's irrelevant.

Why do you notice what colour they are?

Erm, because it's kind of hard not to notice, you know? What someone's right in front of you, and not behind a windscreen. And also, when there's bin discussions on here about why more Black and Asian people don't mtb, then I've considered my own experience in terms of the ethnicity of my fellow Mtbers, because it's relevant in that particular context.

Nice attempt at clutching at straws, mind. 😉

Can't say it's ever crossed my mind what colour an MTB'er is, as it's irrelevant.

So why is a driver's colour relevant then?

Why do you notice what colour they are? Why's that even relevant? I'd say 99% of all mountain bikers I've seen are White. What does that mean?

With the mud around at the moment most of us are brown.