+1 for Ducati Monster. I still have the one I bought over a decade ago as my first bike, pretty much the last of the aircooled, exposed trellis, round headlight ones. It's been utterly reliable, although that is more as an occasianal thing rather than subjecting it to endless winters of commuters. Ducatis got way better after Texas-Pacific ownership, by the early 00s they're sound.
Older 1100 or 796 Hypermotards worth trying if you like how they look, and Aprilia Dorsoduro too.
How does the Supermoto bikes compare with the Dukes?
Given the budget and the requirements I think you're looking at the right bikes. Not ridden a Superduke but had a 390 Duke, tested a 790 Duke and now own a 990 Supermoto - cost me £4200 at the beginning of last year. They're all stupendous fun in their own right. 390 was a perfect commuter for me but just a little too small for any big touring type things. 790 was an awesome bike but at the time out of my budget. Tried the 990 and fell absolutely head over heels in love. It's an amazing bike for the back roads, barnstorming engine and so far has coped amazing with a couple of 1000+ mile trips. My only slight gripe is the fuel economy is a bit shit compared to modern bikes - maybe 40-45mpg on a good run - but I generally need to stretch my legs after 120ish miles so it's never been a deal breaker for me. 990 SMT has a bigger tank if you desperately need 200 miles between fill ups but I think they're a bit ugly.
I have a KTM 690 Duke R. It's a 2017 model with the latest engine and all the extra bits. I've not ridden it for ages... and might consider selling it. I also have a Super Duke 1290GT, a BMW 1250GSA, an R9T and an old oil head 🙂
The 690 is great fun; the R model gives you "Proper" suspension, better brakes and orange wheels (Plus some nicer parts).
All you KTM owners - Every time I read a test in the mags, they have some sort of problem, albeit sometimes small. They often criticise the build quality, too. Is this your experience? I've had 8 Triumphs, a Suzuki and now this F800R and only ever had one breakdown since I got back into bikes in 2000 (sidestand switch on a Speed Triple-cured with WD 40). All my Triumphs have had excellent build quality.
I bought a KTM SMC 690 last year. It is too much fun. It should be illegal
There are a couple of mandatory mods which fix the surgy throttle and I've even shortened the gearing on mine, it now only does about 95mph but gets there in about half a second
It truly is ridiculous
Build quality is excellent... little gremlins are often electrical. Sometimes a bit of oil.
they're character building 😀
Quirky
Italian... ish..
But they're also a VERY different riding experience.
All you KTM owners – Every time I read a test in the mags, they have some sort of problem, albeit sometimes small.
I have a sort of KTM 🙂 A Husqvarna FE350, been fine so far and it spends most of its time on the floor 🙂
I have to say, I didn't know about the XSR 900, it's really rather nice
Defo don't want a street triple again, if I hadn't had one already I'd get another. Would like to try something else
I'm moving to the South Downs so something I can take out for a quick run on the local lanes is what I'm after. Duke 690 looking good right now. Will probably look at trading my Blade in against it. Looks like I'm focussed on a 2017 version or later
I've never ridden a Duke but they've always seemed to me like the bike for people who don't have the balls to go for a full Supermoto
That is my non-fact-based opinion of course so would be interested to hear from someone like Weeksy who has some actual experience and facts what the advantage of a Duke over an SM is? Is it just the lower saddle? Admittedly that's an issue I don't really encounter at 6'2" (same as standover on MTBs)
Simple answer to that is the ability to do other stuff.
I took my 690s to Belgium, France and Germany, I'm not sure if fancy that on an smcr. I fitted a top box and it was ace.
The taller height of the smcr can make it feel a bit detached in terms of handling but that's more likely down to my preference than it.
Smcr dash, clocks, lever etc are all very SM, no frills etc
I took my 690 to Donington, Silverstone, Rockingham etc etc.
It'll top out about 115mph but you'll squeeze 119 on tracks, clock speed.
The great thing they bring is a fun factor, they're light and flickable for sure. However if you play with decent riders on big bikes it will find things hard. They lack a bit of high speed stability and wind can be an issue, the screen works well but is not pretty.
The XSR 900 is silky smooth, power handling etc but it's just "different" to the 690. It's easier and less frantic to get the best out of, particularly on track. It also has the quickshifter from the Mt 09 fitted which is fun too.
Bazzer, after an ancient Honda (nothing at all failed that wasn’t a direct result of years of abuse from previous owners) and a Kawasaki (pretty bulletproof, and only slightly Shonky finishes that didn’t like being outside much) I’d say that My Ktm is a bit flakey but mostly ok. I have seen a tiny bit of weeping from the output shaft that Weeksy mentioned which I’ll get them to address before the 2 year warranty ends, and at around 1k the thermostat failed on my bike. At the first service I moaned a bit about the throttle surging at urban speeds and they put a different map on the ecu that improved things a bit. As it was a brand new model when I bought it I was ready for being a bit of a beta-tester and it didn’t disappoint!
Some of the fixings and components look a bit cheap and have started to tarnish a little on my 790, but then it’s not in the premium line and I think they’re made in Malaysia, the SuperDukes/V twins do look a lot better finished and after trying the SDGT at my last service everything you could see and touch was much nicer (think they are actually built in Austria) have still seen people reporting some fairly big electrical gremlins with the new Superduke R, but it’s still on my shortlist...You do get a 2 year warranty and breakdown cover from new.
I’m ok with a bit of “character” and happy to report that nothing major seems to have fallen off yet!
I still think a Triumph is better built, better finished and probably a better long term prospect, but also less fun when you’re just bumbling along, and as much as like a spot of responsible hooning, most of my riding is more bimbly 😁
I’m with TheFlyingOx and would recommend a 950 or 990 supermoto.
I got a low mileage 950 last year for £3700, geared it down a wee bit,some Leo Vince cans and rejetted and has to be one of the best all round bikes I’ve had, and I’ve had everything from hyper sports to BMW Adventure bikes.
Bit flakey on finish in places but gives it character 😉
Won't surprise you to know I've had 5.
2 950smr and 3 standard 959s
My last 950 had a horrible headshake about 90 mph I could not dial out, so I swapped it after 5 weeks for a 790.
My first 950smr I took to Spa.
I wanted something to potter around the B roads and chemins of SW France. I couldn’t bring myself to sell my Street Triple. After a lot of research I bought one of these. Early days but no regrets so far
Obviously not the same as the smaller Dukes but I have been very close to buying a 1290 GT on more than one occasion. Having test ridden its deffo got more character and more exciting than my XR, but it is a bit more hard on the hips and I do a lot of really long days on tour and I am not getting any younger.
I am also considering getting rid of the Tuono (no more room for a n+1) and getting either a 690 enduro or more likely a 701LR I really fancy doing a bit of the TET off road touring when the pandemic ends. Though part of me says go super light packing and put a bigger tank on the FE350 and I will have much more fun and wave goodbye to my mates on techy sections on their bigger bikes 😀 Whilst wearing yesterdays pants 🙂
@benp1 Where abouts on the South Downs? I am 11mins on a Mountain bike from the South Downs Way 🙂
Bianchi Boy....that looks great!!
Tell you what else may suit you that you've never heard of !
Yamaha XT660X... These are honestly absolutely brilliant things, they really are. They're more pseudo-moto than supermoto, but i've spent days out playing with Supermoto bikes and the XT660X loses out slightly exiting corners but makes up for it on top end and stability meaning it can hold it's own all day. They also have more comfort than a true supermoto along with Japanese service intervals and a decent sized fuel tank. The forks need a spacer making which is £20 and 10 mins work to improve them and with £100 of air filters, a quick snorkel mod and a power commander you can get 15% more GO from them with ease. Many will have these mods done already by now.
Memory fails me at the moment as to how many i've owned of these, it may be 4 or may be 5... but it's at least 4. They've usually been sold when i've had a European trip coming up, they're ace things but i'm not sure i'd keep up with 1199s on the German roads lol. But as a back-lane thumper, they're hard to beat !
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I had a KTM 640 super moto for 7 yrs.
It was insane. I rode it like a mad man. I never went above 90mph lol.
Most fun you can have on the rod full stop.
The struggle here is test rides aren't really possible and don't want to travel view a bike. Not seen much about that XT660X, don't really know much about supermotos in general. It's probably something I need to try to see if I like it. I reckon i'll like the Duke straightaway, sounds like a rorty Triumph STR, which is sort of what I'm after
Excellent input on this thread, thanks
@weeksy - thanks for all the info sharing. You must keep a bike for a few months and then sell straight on?
@bazzer - I'm (hopefully!) moving a few miles south of QECP. Hoping to have great walking, biking and motorbiking on a more regular basis!
thanks for all the info sharing. You must keep a bike for a few months and then sell straight on?
It varies mate, sometimes i keep them days, weeks, months, even now i've had the ZX6R for 3 years.
But i have often swapped for a particular need, requirement. I'm exceptionally fussy with bikes and for example at one stage i sold 15 bikes for more than i paid for them, it's not happened for all of them after that due to using dealers rather than selling privately. So i don't mind the buying and selling.
@benp1 I am in Clanfield, literally one junction down the A3 from QECP. So my 11mins is riding to QECP 🙂
Ben, feel free when you find one to ping it up here or even on my forum
https://revtothelimit.co.uk/index.php
I'll give it a once over and give you a 'yes/no/check'
All you KTM owners – Every time I read a test in the mags, they have some sort of problem, albeit sometimes small. They often criticise the build quality, too. Is this your experience? I’ve had 8 Triumphs, a Suzuki and now this F800R and only ever had one breakdown since I got back into bikes in 2000 (sidestand switch on a Speed Triple-cured with WD 40). All my Triumphs have had excellent build quality.
I've had several KTMs. No major problems... the 690R had an indicator fail and a recall for a tank seal. Great that the bikes are good as the dealers are a bit crap in my experience.
Compare that to my experience with BMW... lots of expensive failures: cams, exhaust valves, lights, etc. but the dealers are excellent!
I bought a brand new 1250GSA last year, it didn't even last 7 weeks (nearly 4k miles as I ride a lot). Total engine failure. BMW have been great about it though; they offered me brand new bike of my choice. Went for another GSA as they are still the best bike for what I use them for... big, fully loaded, miles 🙂
I've always used Premier Bikes in Abingdon (formerly Didcot) and they've always been exceptionally good with both service and warranty.
My KTM 640 was taken from the shed, hammered stupid then put away again, for 7 yrs.
It never ever broke down and the only item I replaced on that bike was tyres. Lots of them.
Not one single thing ever broke on it.
I now have a Husqvarna FE350, the build quality is something else.
It was insane. I rode it like a mad man. I never went above 90mph lol.
This is why I kept my Aprilia RS125 two stroke after passing my full test, I can behave like a hooligan and still be traveling at more or less legal speeds.
I've got a big bike for longer trips, but it's dull unless moving at the kind of speeds that will see me in hot water. Riding it is a constant exercise in self control.
I think most nakeds bring that though. My last few biggish nakeds have been 990SDs, Tuonos (gen1 and gen2), now the XSR900. None of them are exactly nice at >100.
Ive recently acquired a Vstrom 650 in 2013 flavour. New to the 'adventure' type setup but for me its a great bike for twisties and commuting. Its fast enough- not had a chance to tour on it in anger yet, but with a few mods to the brakes, screen and suspension its a great bike. Really likes rolling it on in the B roads if that is your thing and has a commanding view. PLus you can get a good one with abs for 3k. I'd be tempted by the 1000 but the 650 is plenty fast enough compared to cagers and it gets good mpg- 60 plus on the commute.
2nd for a gen2 vtwin tuono.
140bhp so a nice amount of power but not too much. And over 100mph unless you're in a tuck your head feels like it's being ripped off.
For something left field, if you really want to rev and do normal speeds... A Honda CB400 hyper vtec. Miss mine. 50bhp, 14k rpm red line or thereabouts. Very very shouty, would do 0-60 in 5 seconds so not that slow, and mine topped out on the autobahn in a full speed tuck at 115mph 😁 import only, rare as hens teeth and even harder to get parts for!
I managed to find a couple of min to call a dealer about a Duke 690, blooming sold already!
I think someone mentioned the Royal Enfield 650 twin earlier; this is probably way out of budget, but it’s a British company that designed it, and has created a body kit for owners to build a similar bike. Rather cool looking bike, too.
https://www.bikeexif.com/royal-enfield-continental-gt-650-goblin-works
I’ve never been that inclined to get a motorbike, but the one that always rather tempted me, and if the money ever presented itself I’d track one down, is the Honda NX650 Dominator, the Enduro-styling and size looks like an ideal bike for B-road fun.
So then??
I think practically I'll wait till I move before I get another bike. It's a bit of hassle to sort it all out before I move, and practically easier when I'm down there. The fireblade will get moved by the house movers. It would be rubbish to have a new bike and then not ride it for a few weeks.
So all being well aiming for April ish
@Bazzer - I'm heading for Rowlands Castle, pretty close to you
@benp1 That really is just down the road 🙂 Message me if you fancy a ride or to chat bikes anytime. Me and a few of my mates do a fair bit of touring and Euro Trackdays. Do the odd local ride and trip to Wales etc.
@bazzer - yep, defo game for that. Will ping you a message when I'm down (and have a bike on the road!)
@ TheFlyingOx... That's my old bike! Congrats, it's a beauty, still not replaced it 🙁
Ducati Monster 821 Stripe. I had a 2016 821 and it was great. Perfect for knocking about on in a commute and enough power to get you to move on when you want. You can easily scrape the pegs and get your kneedown and the Stripe gives you adjustable forks.
Service intervals are massive, especially for the valve services.
Fuel economy is very good, I got a solid 150mile per tank.
Not as hardcore and always on it as a Hypermotard or Duke, but just as quick and you can use it for everything. Got mine out on the track, went on 3 day bike trips and used it for commuting for a year in all weathers.
With a pair of Termi's on it, it sounds awesome too.
I only chopped it in for a Monster 1200S.
So I’m looking to swap to something else. It will be a toy, needs to be B road focussed rather than track focussed
Must haves:
– smaller engine – or not superbike engine. I want to rev and change gear but still do normal speeds
– involving – I don’t want a cruiser, I want something chuckable and fun. Rode a Triumph Bonneville and found it boring
– not boring – I want to look at it and like it, doesn’t have to be pretty, but a Hornet or Bandit is boring even though they’re quite good
– road toy, not track toy
In true STW style people are recommending 100bhp+ bikes
IMO around 60hp is a good spot. You can thrash it at legalish speeds and thrashing a bike is the fun bit.
No they're not. Mt07, 690 Duke, 821 monster, just 3 off the top of my head on here
not all are but many are
60bhp would bore the arse off me (unless on a super moto) and I’m hardly what you’d call a fast rider - maybe that’s the issue, dunno. I fully support something you can ring the neck of, but I’ve had quite a few 600’s and find the lack of torque frustrating.
I’d be looking at a twin or triple of some sort, plenty of push out the corners but not crazy fast. In fairness an older Tuono is a decent bike but they’re a bit long in the tooth now..
Ktm 950sm.
Comfy, reliable(ish) and nice wave of torque from the big V.
I had an mt10 before and that was a laugh, but forever double guessing what had been caught on dash cams or speed cameras every outing.
I had an old sv650 and that was also great fun.
