[Closed] What are we to make of the UKIP surge?

i think you are misguided mr badger-- stalinism, maoism or any other cronyism has as much relevance to Communism as a bald man does a comb.

That doesn't matter, what matters is what kind of agendas communist ideology historically and inadvertently ends up pushing.

It went so well last time, let's give a failed ideology another go and usher in a new environment ripe for political despots.

No, there's another way, not capitalism as we know it now but a variant of it. Why limit our imagination to historical paradigms.

No, there's another way, not capitalism as we know it now but a variant of it.

not the Third way-- caring capitalism-- oxymoron of the reformers

 

Badger man-- this will have to go on another thread, this is about The Pitchfork Party and their irrelevance to history

No, I don't mean the third way either. That didn't go far enough.

http://llandudnojetset.wordpress.com/ some light relief for you-- check out the flag section

More of a rugby kind of guy. 😛 Sorry mate

Nowadays the critical ilk of Townsend, Keane and Shearer have hegemonic control of football punditry.

I truly never knew people talked about sports in this way.

egg chasing badger fiddler -- 😯

matt johnson --has a passion for football, just comes at it from a perspective that is not heard on mainstream media-- same as politics though, its all very controlled, and not at all 'independant'--toe the line or your'e oot pal..

That's a play on something else...

I don't actually shag badgers.

I don't actually shag badgers.

i didn't think you did, but your 'handle' is a bit ambiguous to say the least...

It's meant to be. 😈

ernie_lynch - Member
the father of the €, Oskar Lafointaine
No he isn't. You're just claiming that 'cause it fits nicely into that narrative that you keep banging on about, which claims there's no difference between left and right in politics.

You're right of course, Ernie. But odd that I am joined in my political fantasy land by the [i]Frankfurter Allgemeine [/i](no less) who describe Lafointaine as, "he was one of the SPD's most ardent advocates of the Euro." Honestly, German broadsheets....as bad as ours in mis-informing us thickos.

But let's check the man himself:

So, "if real appreciations and depreciations are not possible in this way (eg [i]20-30% decrease on S European wages[/i]), it will be necessary to abandon the common currency and return to a system which allows for appreciations and depreciation."

"N S, Sherlock!" At least he is enjoying the smell of the coffee this morning! Why not join us? It's freshly brewed.

So he's gone from being "father of the €" to merely supporting its introduction.

I'm glad you agree with me teamhurtmore.

I found this interesting...

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2013/may/06/ukip-5-things-people-get-wrong

... and it's a novel experience for me to quote the Grauniad. BTW the author is a lecturer from U Manch. Also -

[b]A good time to bury bad news?[/b]
There's a new old-Etonian at No 10: BoJo's bro just started work there.

And with that I'll move to Norway.

I appreciate that Lafontaine has made a career of U-turns and odd-bedfellows but you must have a very low opinion of him Ernie*. To be the German Finance Minister during the introduction of the Euro and yet only a mere supporter - how tame! I wonder why he didn't resign in process? I mean being FM and having such an important financial structure introduced under your watch, and replacing the beloved Deutsche Mark - and yet just a mild and passive "supporter". And then to have someone subsequently ghost write books under your name in which they/you (?) call for even greater global currency blocs. Really bizarre?

*But in one sense, you are yet again correct. Since in the run up to his party's failure in the 1995 Baden Wurttemburg elections he was staunchly anti-€. So like all good politicians, he swung with the wind and became pro-Euro to suit his political needs. Must have been strange as Finance Minister to watch the birth of a bastard** child that is/was the euro! European politics, would you credit it......I wonder if, in truth, all the euro's supporters felt the same?

(** in the true, not the swearing, sense of the word, mods 😉 ! )

..... you must have a very low opinion of him Ernie

Why is my opinion of Oskar Lafointaine, whatever it happens to be, relevant to this thread ?

I just think you should stick to facts rather than spin, Lafointaine isn't considered "father of the €", that accolade has been reserved for others.

Although I appreciate that as a right-wing economist spin will always for you take precedence over fact, as you have repeatedly shown on this thread with your false claims that Labour received a bloody nose last thursday, whilst simultaneously completely ignoring the devastating hammering that the LibDems got.

ernie_lynch - Member
I just think you should stick to facts

I agree....so my first point...

teamhurtmore - Member

Nonetheless, the main parties have been foolhardy to dismiss UKIP as clowns etc and have had [b]their[/b] noses suitably bloodied. [b]In order, the Lib Dems[/b], the Tories and [b]then[/b] Labour. They need to answer the question I posed before, how does a party led by NF ( almost a caricature of the nice but dim broker that died out after Big Bang), with dubious candidates and a shallow policy platform do so well?

...and later for clarity...

teamhurtmore - Member
As I said much earlier, in terms of hit I would suggest that it went LD, Tories with Labour very much behind.

The beauty of free speech, you can see the holes in arguments...

ernie_lynch - Member
...spin will always for you take precedence over fact, as you have repeatedly shown on this thread.... whilst simultaneously completely ignoring the devastating hammering that the LibDems got.

QED . Thanks Ernie, great to have a point proven. Let's not miss it...once again....

ernie_lynch - Member
I just think you should stick to facts

Time for a ride now....have a nice afternoon.

You have completely ignored the devastating hammering that the LibDems got last thursday, as you focused on Labour's alleged damage by UKIP. Despite the fact that Labour successfully and easily saw off a threat by UKIP in South Shields by pretty much maintaining their share of the vote and getting more than twice the votes that UKIP got, whilst at the same time receiving the largest share of the vote of any party in the unLabour-friendly county councils.

Making a vague comment that the LibDems didn't do well hardly compares with recognising that they received a devastating hammering.

You're long on spin and short on facts geezer.

I think I'd be a bit concerned if I woke up after the next election and found the country governed by a colation involving UKIP. Perhaps Boris as PM and NF as deputy, with the Ulster Unionists in the mix - they'd be the sensible rational ones keeping everyone else in check....

Boris and Farage? That would turn politics into a 5 year top gear special. 😆

What's annoying about this sort of statement is that so few people who make it actually do sod off, and so many seem like drama queens.

Patriotic sentiments all riled up?

The beauty of free speech, you can see the holes in arguments...

Ernie, you really do not have to keep labouring my point. Once is quite sufficient. Any more is simply trolling (or perhaps that was the original intention - shame, on a generally well mannered thread). But let me help you:

"Cleggs stuffed..." ([i]hmm, quite categoric?[/i])
"In order, the Lib Dems..." ([i]not much ambiguity there[/i])
"...in terms of hit, I would suggest that it went LD..." ([i]ditto[/i])

All said by someone who has, "completely ignored the devastating hammering that the LibDems got last thursday".

You can keep digging if you like but the point has probably been proven enough. The holes are gaping! But good proof also for why we should let UKIP have a say - once out in the open, the comments can be properly scrutinised and dismissed appropriately. Keep speech free.....QED.

THM, Ernie, just in case you're wondering right now this is a no-score draw. But only because it's impossible to get negative scores.

Ernie, you really do not have to keep labouring my point.

Well you seem to feel the need to.

No comment you have made concerning the LibDem's performance last Thursday reflects the magnitude of the electoral hammering they received, specially in South Shields.

"Cleggs stuffed" could just as easily refer to the LibDems coming a poor fourth after the Tories and UKIP. When in reality the LibDems came 7th, with less than half the vote that the BNP got, who as it happens did very badly themselves. The LibDem share of the vote went from 14.2% to 1.4%, which I believe is their worse parliamentary election result in their entire history.

And yet whilst you causally brush aside the LibDems devastating electoral hammering, you focus on Labour's performance, falsely claiming that they received a bloody nose.

The reason for this is quite clear imo, you want to draw attention away from the coalition government's (who's right-wing agenda you support) poor performance, and suggest instead that Labour didn't do much better. In other words put a bit of spin on a rather awkward situation.

I don't support the Labour Party, and if I had been a South Shields voter I would not have voted Labour, and probably urged others not to. But unlike you I prefer to base my political rationale on facts, not spin.

HTH

HTH? Yes, it proves N'winds point as well. Shame this was a nice thread until you started. Now this is just silly and rude and more importantly boring for others. For that reason, I will step off this thread as responding further to silliness/rudeness is not fair on others. (Apologies N'wind, I should have ignored the trolling).

I hope this gets back on topic.

Shame this was a nice thread until you started. Now this is just silly and rude and more importantly boring for others

You think it's "silly" and "rude" of me to challenge your false claims do you ?

You think I should just let you claim that Labour received a bloody nose last Thursday, despite all the evidence to the contrary, and that Oskar Lafointaine was "the father of the €", because you say so ?

I bet you do.

Perhaps a better solution for you would be if the Daily Mail allowed you to write a right-wing column in which you can freely air all your spin on current affairs without any fear that someone will contradict you, because on a forum like this there is always the chance that someone might be challenge you........terribly rude of them I know.

yawn 🙄

This thread was doing so well. No comment on who's right or wrong as I can't be bothered reading, but the big are certainly hitting.

Patriotic sentiments all riled up?

is it over? i was enjoying that.

is being accused of writting for the Daily Mail similar to the Hitler thing?