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It is sickening that people who have no personal links with these people who commit senseless crimes appear to defend them based on left political views.
What personal links with looters do you have ? Is it on a professional level - or do just happen to know some looters ?
BTW the woman they are attempting to tuft out of her home hasn't committed any [i]"senseless crimes".[/i]
And oh, well done for trying to turn this into a left/right issue ...... that's always useful and constructive.
Could you explain to me how making the mother, of someone accused of an offence, homeless leads to a better society ?It is sickening that people who have no personal links with these people who commit senseless crimes appear to defend them based on left political views
I appreciate we so not provide this tobut we also don't provide a way out.
best not with my typing skills, very rocky ground for me
I have no personal links thank you for your mis construal. If you read my opinion, you will see I abhor such behavior. It is my disbelief that you are able to sympathize.
A 17 year old should have the moral upstanding not to commit such crimes. Or do you wish to accuse me further so that I am further in the wrong?
When I first heard this news I saw the councils point, and as the family breached the contract they signed with council they are in the unfortunate position of defending themselves against councils eviction request in the courts.
However on reflection I don't believe this action is constructive, yes it is sending a message but I think it's the wrong one. I think it will alienate people when what we need, in my opinion, is to be building bridges and listening to peoples needs.
Junkyard, Sorry, my phone seems to adjust my typing and not always in my favour. Tis a ball-ache to correct.
prove it! I doubt you can. are you another person just saying stuff?and as the family breached the contract they signed with council
It is my disbelief that you are able to sympathize.
well the mother now has a charged son and her home is under threat due to someone else's actions. Sympathising with her is not sympathising with rioters for she is not a rioter .... one would think this was a quite important point.
prove it! I doubt you can.
The son was convicted of a criminal offense today, apparently that was enough to constitute a breach of contract.
Can you prove otherwise? Are you just saying stuff too??
And in answer to your question, it does not make a better society. However, there has to be a starting point at which this behavior stops. It is a blend of listening and a enforced rule that it cannot be tolerated.
Simply allowing this to go on is not acceptable .
The opinions I have expressed are exactly that, opinions, not a ****in 'how to fix ****s' bible.
Some of the rhetoric spoken by our government in the light of events makes sense. Punish them in a way they will feel punished.
Ffs stop having an go at me and try to address the reasons why this happened. It didn't happen near me or by me, but yes, I am entitled to an opinion.
charged. not convicted.
And being charged is enough! I doubt the council would start legal proceedings unless they thought it was.
so charge someone with something and their mum should lose their home? nice. that makes perfect sense to me. Notice you use "I doubt".
@ ernie,
Were you directly affected?
I suggest if you were your attitude would be somewhat different.
<fact>
Look, Kevevs I don't agree with what they are doing! Read my first post.
oh, ok, came into it late 😉 soz. no worries.
I have no personal links
What you on about then, when you say : [i]"It is sickening that people who have no personal links with these people who commit senseless crimes appear to defend them"[/i] ? You have no links with them either, but apparently you're entitled to an opinion - how does that work then ? 😕
It is my disbelief that you are able to sympathize.
Again, what are you on about ? I do not sympathise with those who trashed my town and left it looking like a war zone.
It doesn't however automatically follow that I think that a woman, who quite likely has enough problems already, should be turfed out of home. Why would it ?
BTW if you think it's such a good idea, would you like the government to urge private landlords to also turf out the relatives of those who are guilty of breaking the law ? Perhaps they could pass some legislation - or are they somehow special ?
Its all good 🙂
Morals and standards in society have been under a twin pronged attack from consumerism on one side and bloody liberals controlling the penal system on the other for decades. Since the second world war I think.
These folk don't want to be rehabilitated, they don't want to be part of the society that supplies what they take. Euthanize them I say. From my experience of working in the benefits system there is a very clear passing of the problem from one generation from the next. Eviction isn't the answer but at least it starts with E. The underclass needs a final solution 👿 😯 😆
sorry mate, had a re -read 😳
No worries! all good fun debating stuff!!
look, DC is a posh, naive, priviledged bloke with no idea about ordinary people living ordinary lives.
+1!!
There isn't an argument. teh law is the law. for everyone the same. why stretch it for rioters and contract it for MP's illegal expenses. It is the same for everyone right?. It should be objective but proportional. I think the Tellybox vision of people breaking the law, smashing up highstreets on camera with fire is far more visible than a bunch of MP's or bankers destroying society by other means.
@ sarnies . Are you able to read and digest words? The first occasion I thought I had commited a faux pas, but on reflection, it appears you have not read all of the words, or if indeed you have, you have been unable to comprehend them. Shame. Re read what I have said. To simmarize;
The culprit is indeed the child. The child has zero moral upstanding. The person responsible, unfortunately is the parent. Punishing the child will not work. 2+2 etc.
bloody liberals controlling the penal system on the other for decades. Since the second world war I think.
Quite impressive, being able to achieve that level of control despite not actually being in government [i]at any time[/i] since the second world war, until this inspid coalition effort.
despite not actually being in government at any time since the second world war
What about Thatcher - wasn't she liberal ? She was in power for quite a while.
Waderider - MemberMorals and standards in society have been under a twin pronged attack from consumerism on one side and bloody liberals controlling the penal system on the other for decades.
We have a pretty illiberal prison system- in fact england and wales have more prisoners per cap than any other country in europe.
The reason prison isn't working is that, well, [i]prison doesn't work[/i]. Worldwide, people given a custodial sentence are 7% [i]more[/i] likely to reoffend, and longer sentences increase that further. in the UK, 44% of people given a community sentence reoffend within 2 years, compared to 56% given a custodial sentence. So prison increases crime. Not a floppy liberal position this, our tory Solicitor General agrees.
It's also largely regarded as an ineffectual deterrant.
Non-custodial options are less expensive (on average, around 1/10th as expensive apparently) and more succesful.
But, prison feels better, it's nice to get some revenge and see an offender suffer, and it sells well to the public. So we have a huge prison population, and an underfunded probation service, and rehabilitation is a dirty word. The system isn't designed to prevent crime. That's not all that liberal really.
And in answer to your question, it does not make a better society.
Ok so it does not make things better Shall we consider that to be good or bad?
yes starting point for stopping with you so farHowever, there has to be a starting point at which this behavior stops.
Yes I can tell you are both listening and enforcing
It is a blend of listening and a enforced rule that it cannot be tolerated.
Simply allowing this to go on is not acceptable .
Yes i agree soverreactions must stop now after all they dont make things better.
The opinions I have expressed are exactly that, opinions, not a * 'how to fix *' bible.
❓
Punish them in a way they will feel punished.
I agree any fool can see that to punish someone you would need to punish them in a way that was actually a punishment.
However I have yet to have it explained how punishing a person who did not commit a crime helps here though ..in fact even you accept it wont so why would you want to do it?
Ffs stop having an go at me and try to address the reasons why this happened. It didn't happen near me or by me, but yes, I am entitled to an opinion.
Who has said you cant have an opinion? I would say you are entitled to hold and freely express your strongly held and ill conceived view that doing something that wont make it better is the perfect way to make things better after the riots.
So we all agree, tackle the problem at its root. Children at the age if seven plus? If all parents gave a shit and taught their kids morale then maybe we would be in a better place? Or have I just made myself a bigger target?
Jebus!
Have none of you read your Candide?
[i]"dans ce pays-ci, il est bon de tuer de temps en temps un amiral pour encourager les autres"[/i]
have I just made myself a bigger target?
Not really, on account that I haven't a clue what you're saying. What does "Children at the age if seven plus?" mean ?
7 or over and subject to the full force of the law??
So Ernie if you think this is overKILL, what did your hero Che used to do to people he didn't like very much?
Genuine question, like
So Ernie if you think this is overKILL,
No, not overkill, more of a complete irrelevance.
A bit like you really.
what you on about Z-11?
Junkyard, why would it not work?
If were a bad parent then I would not care about my own selfish lifestyle and would not at least try to educate my kids.
Whoa there, Sorry, I do try to educate my kids. Hopefully they sill lead a better life than I.
My opinion is far from ill-conceived. It stems from growing up in a very nasty part of town and seeing illegality for what it really is.
I do not have all of the answeres but I do know that giving a shit for these pricks does not work. Nor will it ever.
Commence .........
I can't be alone in thinking that we actually aren't in that bad a place though? There's always been a tiny minority of society capable of mindless violence and general mayhem. It's just never been this [b]visible[/b] before, and clearly that seems to have attracted the casual opportunist. It's this group I worry about most tbh, but I think the stricter sentencing is actually likely to deter those people.
Much as I hate to agree with Cameron, perhaps he is right to suggest that the police didn't treat the looting with the right approach to begin with? Hindsight is a wonderful thing though...
Because not enough people voted to prevent him getting the power and Clegg offered himself over a barrel?
This. Oh, with the little ginger toilet brush all lubed up in a gimp suit for Georgy-boy to play with.
Kevevs - Memberwhat you on about Z-11?
Not an exact translation but it's something along the lines of "In this place, it's a good idea to kill an admiral from time to time, to encourage the others"
I [i]think[/i] he wants us to kill David Cameron.
Please don't quote me, I was only having a laugh.
(I do worry about the collective intelligence hereabouts though, if you don't know the difference between liberal with a small l and liberal with a big L. Even if the post was tongue in cheek).
Please don't quote me, I was only having a laugh.
It was a bit scary!
Please don't quote me, I was only having a laugh.
It isn't funny 🙄
I can't be alone in thinking that we actually aren't in that bad a place though?
No I'm sure your not alone in thinking that. There's plenty of people who think we should merrily plod along ignoring what has happened, and pretending everything is just tickety-boo. Mostly in the government.
[u]I[/u] was having laugh - as a further extension of societies selfishness I don't care what you lot think. After all, this is a forum where the daily posters are mainly fools.
It isn't funny
But that post was just for a laugh?!! contradiction?
(I do worry about the collective intelligence hereabouts though, if you don't know the difference between liberal with a small l and liberal with a big L. Even if the post was tongue in cheek).
LOL, I do know the difference thanks. I'm sure that you will acknowledge that there is some correlation between the two when distinguishing between political parties and thus those in control of the home office and their agendas.
Of course, I could have just pointed out that you were talking absolute bollocks like Junkyard did, but I thought my post more amusing 😉
give it 3 weeks and this'll all blow over. Remember that ILLEGAL Rupert Murdoch business? As you were Britain. Don't think, it's easier.