[Closed] website costs

That "designers" who do "branding" cost you a lot of money for nothing

Its all emperors new clothes.

Page 2 stick...

oh please TandemJeremy!! 😯

That "designers" who do "branding" cost you a lot of money for nothing

Is the McDonald's 'brand' just:
[img] [/img]

or is it how they talk to their customers through their website, the images they use in brochures, the colours of the interiors of their restaurants, the tone of voice of their advertising, the cut of the uniforms their staff use, their charity work....

Feel free to give me a ring if you want Dave, Don't mind taking a look at the guy you are interested in... I'd say for £600 your getting something templated onto a wordpress design and he either really likes you or needs work.

ecomm usually starts around £1800 with SEO in mind, design and support

UK designers will know the UK market better than designers in other parts of the world.

Really? A website is a website is a website....

The fundamental way that people use the web is global. The only thing that changes are languages used. The computers are all the bloody same, aren't they? Praps with a different keyboard.

As for design trends; tinternet makes it easy to follow aesthetic trends from place to place.

UK web designers are just going to have to accept that even brown people have computers now, so it's time to sell the Porsche and holiday villa in the south of France.

even brown people have computers now

But in reality, more UK designers are more likely to understand the UK market (assuming the website is targeted at UK users only) than someone from overseas.

elfin, you're full of BS, you obviously don't know what you're talking about so why don't you move on?

how they talk to their customers through their website

More ridiculous nonsense

Can you not see how ridiculous you sound? The issue is that its a small incestuous world of web design and media and everyone convinces themselves and reinforces it with each other that this guff has meaning. It adds no value and has no meaning.

to those of us that live in the real world it is such obvious emperors new clothes

Buy cheap buy twice, nothing is free apart from haribo's with some bike orders.

More ridiculous nonsense

Can you not see how ridiculous you sound? The issue is that its a small incestuous world of web design and media and everyone convinces themselves and reinforces it with each other that this guff has meaning. It adds no value and has no meaning.

to those of us that live in the real world it is such obvious emperors new clothes

If you are being serious then I would love to see what brands you buy and what compels you to buy them. Or do you think you are completely free from the influence of brand communication?

breatheeasy - Member

Web designer in not listening to customer shocker...

Customer not telling the web designer what they actually wanted shocker...

[url= http://www.singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/website-costs#post-2153137 ]Hmmm! Hadn't thought about that.[/url] But I do like the way that deisigners get all precious about their hidden art. I particularly like the way that there is a general air of superiority and that the client doesn't know what they want. This is probably why they go to a designer, so that they can be guided and advised and not patronised or alienated. You are supposed to be working as a team, no? So why talk down to the customer/potential customer? The [i]them & us[/i] mentality doesn't win you any friends. I have been told that I'm wrong on more than one ocassion in this thread, yet I wasn't asked any questions to give a detailled explanation, good people skills there. The best form of defense is attack etc... 🙄

TJ... stop please!! 😳

Branding was round long before web and new media!

Unless you live in a bothy in the highlands with a peat fed burner and surviving off the land then you interact and are affected by branding pretty much everywhere. There is no emporers new clothes about it!

more UK designers are more likely to understand the UK market

Explain 'UK Market' please. Cos to me, a market is a market, or do people in the UK buy stuff in a very different manner to people elsewhere?

come off it MF

Do you think about this at all? Does any of your guff have any meaning at all?

"Brand communication"
"talk to their customers through their website",
"Brand message"

Guff - meaningless guff

So do you honestly think that McDonald's have had absolutely no benefit from creating and maintaining their brand image. Seriously?

So, you're trying to put the cart before the horse, how did people buy things before branding became such a buzz concept?

Explain 'UK Market' please. Cos to me, a market is a market, or do people in the UK buy stuff in a very different manner to people elsewhere?

Look at the car market - similar cars in the US market are designed differently than the UK equivalents.

Or clothing - look at how someone on the continent dresses compared to the UK. Or the Far East for that matter.

Uk people buy from UK websites in 99% of cases. American people buy from american websites in 99% of cases. Indian people buy from Indian websites in 99% of cases. they buy different things, the websites will be designed differently to reflect the demographic of the customer base (if done properly).
Who knows the UK customer base better? a UK designer, who lives with, works with, and interacts with those people every day, or an Indian or American designer?

I am completely unaffected by "branding" or advertising

Maxray - what is the meaning and benefit then - and not in meaningless gobbledegook please.

Its such obvious emperors new clothse its funny

A Belgian.

Guff - meaningless guff

come off it MF

Do you think about this at all? Does any of your guff have any meaning at all?

"Brand communication"
"talk to their customers through their website",
"Brand message"

Guff - meaningless guff

😆

I am completely unaffected by "branding" or advertising

what shoes do you wear? why do you wear them?
what car do you drive? why do you drive it?
what shops do you shop in, why?

MF, you beat me too it, twice!

how did people buy things before branding became such a buzz concept?

And people didn't NOT buy things, there was simply much less influence on what they chose to buy. Why do you think people call society today a 'consumer' society? Because every day we are bombarded with reasons why we need the latest X because it will do Y for our Z.

Can you actually explain the meaning of any of those statements then?

As for me - I am completely unaffected by advertising or branding. (except occasionally in awareness of somethings existence but that is very very rare) I know exactly why I make the choices I do and its nothing to do with marketing guff.

Not saying it's a good book, but this was an [i]interesting[/i] read:

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Bonfire-Brands-Learned-without-Labels/dp/1841959871

Might be worth a read, those in the "branding" argument on here.

TJ, do you not associate reputations with certain brands, which informs your judgement? E.g. you might expect shimano gears to be reliable despite having never used the model you're buying before.

It adds no value and has no meaning.

Of the top (by value) 100 companies in the world around 30% of that companies worth is atributed to it's brand. No value my arse.

I am completely unaffected by "branding" or advertising

I know exactly why I make the choices I do and its nothing to do with marketing guff.

mf: do yourself a favour and just walk away on this one. Works for me!

If you think so, look at what you wear, what you drive, what food you buy at the supermarket, what supermarket you shop in. Then ask yourself why you are making the choices you make.

Convenience, cost, parking, taste, likes and not because someone tells me to. I also use 4-5 different supermarkets for different reasons. I drive the car I drive because it was the right price and available (nothing to do with the [i]brand[/i]).
The clothes I wear etc...
If the McDonalds brand is so powerful, can you explain why I never go there?

I am completely unaffected by branding or advertising

Can I rob that line and make myself a few £££££ selling tees with that on TJ?

Here's an example of a 'brand' for you TJ:

[img] [/img]

[img] [/img]

[img] [/img]

It's quite a powerful one...

Users (and most customers) only know what they actually want, once they've got it (or not got it)...

warton - Member

"I am completely unaffected by "branding" or advertising"

what shoes do you wear? why do you wear them?

Doc martins - I have worn them for 30 years because they last well and are conmfy when on my feet for 12 hrs

what car do you drive? why do you drive it?

I don't have a car.

what shops do you shop in, why?

Local shopping street as they are nearest with the nearest supermarket because they are nearest.

I am sure there are advertising agencies all over that are very happy that some people really do believe they are not persuaded by brand marketing - it makes their lives so much easier selling to them.

As for me - I am completely unaffected by advertising or branding.

First thing that popped into my head was "or so you think". Whatever you think you're choosing to buy, someone has identified you as a target and marketed and branded themselves to fit with what you think you're independently choosing. It's called market led product orientation.

TJ,
why did you first try those doc martins?

I am sure there are advertising agencies all over that are very happy that some people really do believe they are not persuaded by brand marketing - it makes their lives so much easier selling to them.

Snap!

MF - want to explain what the meaningless phrases I picked up mean in your book

This thread has such quality bs there should be roses on it!

Really? A website is a website is a website....

If the McDonalds brand is so powerful, can you explain why I never go there?

Doc martins - I have worn them for 30 years because they last well and are conmfy when on my feet for 12 hrs

And that is exactly how they position and brand themselves. The Doc Martins brand is very powerful and has a huge budget!

warton - Member

TJ,
why did you first try those doc martins?

I tried a variety of shoes and found the one that works for me. Tehy were recommended to me by someone else who used them

You guysa re laugfhable - you really are with your belief in marjketing guff

It has nothing to do with any decision I make apart from making me less likely to use that product

teh only time it does is in bringing new stuff to market.

I am sure there are advertising agencies all over that are very happy that some people really do believe they are not persuaded by brand marketing - it makes their lives so much easier selling to them.

Ain't that the truth. 🙂

Convenience, cost, parking, taste, likes and not because someone tells me to. I also use 4-5 different supermarkets for different reasons. I drive the car I drive because it was the right price and available (nothing to do with the brand).

Actually, Price & Place are very much to do with "the brand". First lesson in marketing [url= http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marketing_mix ]here[/url]

Beat me to it GaryLake! 😛

Gary - when I first statered wearing them they were not advertised at all.

when I first statered wearing them they were not advertised at all.

So a manufacturer made an item and didn't advertise them? are you sure about that? 30 years ago? 1980, and Doc Martins had no advertising at all?

TJ - would you buy Doc Martins again?

As for me - I am completely unaffected by advertising or branding. (except occasionally in awareness of somethings existence but that is very very rare) I know exactly why I make the choices I do and its nothing to do with marketing guff.

There are brands which specifically target people with this kind of view. Eg. Lidl etc

Yes and yes

Gary - when I first statered wearing them they were not advertised at all.

Oh please, they were as influential a fashion item then as they are now!

Trolling is meant to be funny TeeJ, but you're just sounding like an idiot now. Why do you have to come in and ruin perfectly entertaining threads?

This isn't the first time you've done it to one of iDave's either.

Someday you'll learn where you're needed. 😐

You are just too funny TJ, what sort of baked beans do you eat? How did you choose which "brand" to purchase? Surely you didnt do blind taste sessions before choosing one?

Gary - 30 years ago they were not at all. actually quite hard to find to buy. Tehy certainly were not a fashion item at all in 1980

Love the way people seem to have 'web designer' mixed up with graphic designer, market researcher, cultural analyst etc...

The 'web designers' I know and have worked with haven't a bloody clue about aesthetics and regional markets. They just make websites work. The work with the other bods in order to produce nice websites.

Or is there some sort of super web designer who does all these things?

I'm going to go and cut my own hair now.

from the DM website:

Skinheads were the first subculture to adopt the boot in the early 1960s, spilling out of the East End of London, then across Britain and the world; initially non-racist and obsessive about their fashion, by the time the skinhead movement was corrupted with elements of right-wing extremism, Dr Martens had already morphed into a torchbearer for a brave new world.

The late 1960s and 1970s saw the boot adopted by - not thrust upon - nearly all the 'tribes': Mods, glam, punks, ska, psychobillies, grebos, Goths, industrialists, nu-metal, hardcore, straight-edge, grunge, Britpop...

So even though all those people were wearing them, DM's didn't advertise? nonsense TJ, utter nonsense. and all those people wearing them had no affect on you buying them?

You guys make me laugh

I cannot believe how many of you believe in the emperors new clothes. Ridiculous and gullible the lot of yuou.

DD - ok - i'll butt out again.

Gary - 30 years ago they were not at all. actually quite hard to find to buy. Tehy certainly were not a fashion item at all in 1980

😯

TJ - So buy you admission you would buy them again. If they didn't have a brand name this would be quite hard, how would you know they were the same not a copy?

DD - ok - i'll butt out again.

Ah no, don't really...I was just trying to out-troll the troll 😉

why did you first try those doc martins?

As TJ has replied there are more influences in the buying process than just the brand. This why I said you're putting the cart before the horse. I buy something because of XYZ and you make the assumption that it's solely beacause of the brand. Are you really so far up your own.....?

As a brand can be something as simple as a name, clearly we are all affected by brands, but to try and turn it into some kind of science is laughable. I remember the time when I could buy something based on style/cost/fit /quality/availability rather than the name. Clearly a good product is going to develop a good reputation and develop sales and will need a marketing budget. But without the good product you won't have a successful product. Developing buzz word brand as part of the product is a mark of today's gullible society.

The reason I don't go to McDonalds is because the product is, IMO, CRAP! Not the brand. If you want justify brand marketing by associating everything by brand, then that's fine. But don't go getting confussssed by believing that there aren't people out there who can buy because of other attributes and not because of a concocted brandimage. 😉

Teej, after that last statement I'm genuinely inclined to believe you now actually, sounds like you've truly lived under a rock!

And what Warton said...

I never saw another person wearing black DM shoes. Oxblood boots yes. no one wore plain black DM shoes

TJ is quite clearly not a brand whore. After all, he doesn't even know they are actually Dr. Martens
😉

I certainly agree there's a lot of marketing guff spouted around but anyone who says they are not influenced by advertising is extremely naive.

Incredible, TJ was the first person to ever wear a pair of black DMs (apart from the police and postmen of the 60's and 70's)

Could one of you business gurus tell me what 'brand' refers to?
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Taking the dog for a walk, I look forward to the replies when I get back. 😉

maxray - Member

You are just too funny TJ, what sort of baked beans do you eat?

Cheapest from my local supermarket. Why? Because they are the cheapest from the nearest supermarket.

Marketing free decision

The only influence advertising has on me is awareness of new products

Nothing beyond that at all. I do not buy for names or labels, I buy for good reasons unconnected with marketing based around green ethic.

So can anyone actulolly put any meaning to this guff?
"Brand communication"
"talk to their customers through their website",
"Brand message"

No one yet has given me any explanation of the meaning of these phrases

warton - Member

Incredible, TJ was the first person to ever wear a pair of black DMs (apart from the police and postmen of the 60's and 70's)

thats not what I said. I actually said I tried them on a recommendation - from a copper.

I did not buy them as a fashion item as black DM shoes where no fashion item

and you make the assumption that it's solely beacause of the brand

i just find it amazing that one of the most iconic brands of the 60s and 70s were not advertising and were virtually unknown in 1980.

I did not buy them as a fashion item as black DM shoes where no fashion item

I had 18 hole black with extra long yellow laces from the 26 hole version(?) so I could wrap them around the boot more.

To be honest, though, I do think that the DM marketing back in 1980 wasn't very sophisticated (like lots of brand work back then) and the fashion for wearing them was more peer-based than advertising led.

Cheapest from my local supermarket. Why? Because they are the cheapest from the nearest supermarket.

Kind of expected you to say that. 😆

It is almost like in your efforts to ignore brands you are actually being acutely brand aware. Tandem "antibrand" Jeremy!

Black DM shoes! Dull boring ones. No fashion item at all

I was there, I know.

Cheapest from my local supermarket. Why? Because they are the cheapest from the nearest supermarket.

Marketing free decision

Err no, because it was the Marketing peoples decision to create that cheap/own brand for people in your segment. Believe it.

Could one of you business gurus tell me what 'brand' refers to?

Yes,
A brand is a collection of perceptions in the mind of the consumer. Your brand is affected at every point at which your company comes into contact with potential customers.

To often people seem to think a brand is just a name, logo, colour scheme or such. Where as in reality even the way the phone is answered is part of the brand.

Which obviously sounds like a lot of pretentious crap, unfortunately (or not) it's true in the world we live in today.

I was there, I know.

I have no idea why you made your choice, I was simply correcting your claim that black DMs were not a fashion item.

Err no, because it was the Marketing peoples decision to create that cheap/own brand for people in your segment. Believe it.

Damo the branding has no bearing on my decision. None, zero. Zilch

I buy the cheapest from my local shop. That is not a marketing led decision in any way or form. You have to find some to justify your meainingless jobs and lives

You lot are so naive and gullible its not true in believing all this rubbish

No one has given me any meaning / explanation of the marketing guff yet

You really need to read the emperors new clothes

I have to say I am enjoying this discussion. 😀

MF - they were not. I was there, you were not.

simple as. They were really difficult to find and buy. I know I did it

Boots yes, oxblood yes, colours stitching yes, plain black - no

You cannot correct me on something I did at a time you were a child.

My gawd TJ, won't you stop quoting 'Emperor's New Clothes'. I am sure every single one of us knows the story.

So anyway, can you give me an insight into how you choose your baked beans? Do you always check the price on every alternative to ensure you are getting the cheapest product? Have you ever found yourself counting beans v juice in competitors' products to ensure you get maximum bean per penny spent?

So can anyone actulolly put any meaning to this guff?
"Brand communication"
"talk to their customers through their website",
"Brand message"

No one yet has given me any explanation of the meaning of these phrases